PebHmong Discussion Forum

General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Funeral Rituals & Customs => Topic started by: thehotone on February 07, 2012, 02:30:27 PM

Title: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on February 07, 2012, 02:30:27 PM
Can someone light the way for me on what to expect at a Christian funeral? Is there any ka-sue, cua-cha, niam cooking, sho-cuab? (hmong spelling ???) What are my roles as a nyab? Do we cook or do they cater? Who do he give nyiam sunshine too or do we give any at all? Do they zog-hmo? I'm so lost.  :(
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: Gemini on February 07, 2012, 02:32:47 PM
Catholics...ye s.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on February 07, 2012, 02:51:38 PM
Gemini, i think they are CMA's.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: yuknowthat on February 08, 2012, 08:15:48 AM
Can someone light the way for me on what to expect at a Christian funeral? Is there any ka-sue, cua-cha, niam cooking, sho-cuab? (hmong spelling ???) What are my roles as a nyab? Do we cook or do they cater? Who do he give nyiam sunshine too or do we give any at all? Do they zog-hmo? I'm so lost.  :(
there's nothing of those any sort..as far as i know...it's singing and then eat and then buried the dead then go home..
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: ToxicCum on February 08, 2012, 10:31:58 AM
Can someone light the way for me on what to expect at a Christian funeral? Is there any ka-sue, cua-cha, niam cooking, sho-cuab? (hmong spelling ???) What are my roles as a nyab? Do we cook or do they cater? Who do he give nyiam sunshine too or do we give any at all? Do they zog-hmo? I'm so lost.  :(

its all the same...dependi ng on 'the church' or 'the group' and what their policies are for a funeral.

but most, if not all, are exactly the same...they may have more singing. and their bowing and thank yous maybe a lil shorter. less drinking. but yes, all the positions of meat cutters to the guy in charge and the families all have the same duties as the traditional shaman families. no burning of paper boats and money.

if u walked into a loose christian family funeral, u prob wont know the difference, if your just there to visit and chat.

many elders and people who claim to be wise (respectively), usually do not care about this subject. they are there out of respect and go along as the family wishes......
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on February 09, 2012, 07:29:24 AM
youknowthat... . I've only been to one Christian funeral as a guest but my hsb didn't want to stay any longer. :( i have to admit, it was kind of boring b/c i didn't listen to half of what they said. after the first 5 mins, my mind when somewhere else.


Toxic, so in a way, they still do their funerals traditional with the exception of playing the drum/qeej and burning paper. How do give thanks to those who give sunshine money? Just a thank you? And whom do we give the money to? Directly or indirectly to the family?

My hsb is the nephew of this deceased man and we have no clue what to do besides pay our respects.  :(
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: MSV on February 09, 2012, 11:36:09 AM
youknowthat.... I've only been to one Christian funeral as a guest but my hsb didn't want to stay any longer. :( i have to admit, it was kind of boring b/c i didn't listen to half of what they said. after the first 5 mins, my mind when somewhere else.

Toxic, so in a way, they still do their funerals traditional with the exception of playing the drum/qeej and burning paper. How do give thanks to those who give sunshine money? Just a thank you? And whom do we give the money to? Directly or indirectly to the family?

My hsb is the nephew of this deceased man and we have no clue what to do besides pay our respects.  :(

I'm guilty of feeling the same way too. I've only been to one Christian-based funeral and it was rather....dull and lifeless. I guess I've grown use to hearing drums and qeej playing all the time so to show up to one where it's quiet, I didn't know what to do. From my observation, it's not too different from a traditional shaman funeral. There are still family there to grieve...food is served to everyone...las t goodbyes and words are spoken.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: ToxicCum on February 17, 2012, 12:02:43 PM


Toxic, so in a way, they still do their funerals traditional with the exception of playing the drum/qeej and burning paper. How do give thanks to those who give sunshine money? Just a thank you? And whom do we give the money to? Directly or indirectly to the family?

My hsb is the nephew of this deceased man and we have no clue what to do besides pay our respects.  :(

I am truly sorry for my delayed reply. I hope all is well on your husbands side of the family.

yes, mostly its all the same. The support money (which u called it sunshine money) goes to a designated person. Usually you can openly ask the family who is the 'money holder or 'tug tuav nyiaj'. It is within proper to openly ask who and where the money holder is located.

Mostly, they say thank you the same way...hands together and 2 bows each, with some fancy thank you line that last longer then a Kardashian marriage hehehehehe.... .some, just some, just say thank you with a hand shake.

Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: ToxicCum on February 17, 2012, 12:09:21 PM
I'm guilty of feeling the same way too. I've only been to one Christian-based funeral and it was rather....dull and lifeless.

I am confused here...dull and lifeless??

do u go to funerals expecting it to be at a club with dubstep music blazing and a DJ spinnin?

its like...moarnin g time...funeral s are supposed to be somewhat of a silent atmoshere.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ_ScwrJnfY&feature=related
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: yuknowthat on February 17, 2012, 04:26:21 PM
youknowthat.... I've only been to one Christian funeral as a guest but my hsb didn't want to stay any longer. :( i have to admit, it was kind of boring b/c i didn't listen to half of what they said. after the first 5 mins, my mind when somewhere else.


Toxic, so in a way, they still do their funerals traditional with the exception of playing the drum/qeej and burning paper. How do give thanks to those who give sunshine money? Just a thank you? And whom do we give the money to? Directly or indirectly to the family?

My hsb is the nephew of this deceased man and we have no clue what to do besides pay our respects.  :(
um sunshine money? just keep it in your pocket for some PHO later on when you make a quick detour instead of going home..lawm tsis nco you tshav ntuj but lawm tus vaj tswv xwb....i'm pretty sure some don't even have food to serve the guest who's been there the whole day to help them out..
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: ToxicCum on February 19, 2012, 12:49:14 PM
um sunshine money? just keep it in your pocket for some PHO later on when you make a quick detour instead of going home..lawm tsis nco you tshav ntuj but lawm tus vaj tswv xwb....i'm pretty sure some don't even have food to serve the guest who's been there the whole day to help them out..

was that even called for? no one was bashing until this post....usuall y christian funerals have more food, because they dont follow the traditions of having only 'funeral food'....

im not on anyones side, but the last sentence was completely unnecessary.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: yuknowthat on February 20, 2012, 09:30:48 AM
was that even called for? no one was bashing until this post....usuall y christian funerals have more food, because they dont follow the traditions of having only 'funeral food'....

im not on anyones side, but the last sentence was completely unnecessary.
i said some...even some other traditional don't..
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on February 20, 2012, 10:56:07 AM
What is funeral food though? I've eaten so many different kinds of food at traditional funerals.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on February 20, 2012, 11:11:12 AM
The have all those, but it's all being handled by the Church, including the cooking.  And yes, they do have people to accept sunshine money, but they won't pe you... they will just thank you and ask God to bless you.  They are usually set up in the back or in a corner, with two or three people with computers or notebooks.  They register everything to hand over to the family.

Your role, as a nyab is just to show up at the funeral home and mingle.  Help tidy up here and there and perhaps drive people to the church for lunch and dinner.  That's about it.

Thanks! And would it be improper to give sunshine money directly to one of the sons?
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: SummerBerry on February 27, 2012, 03:38:35 PM
Its always best to give the money to those people who are recording it down vs. family member because they might forget to hand it in later or have it record.

Funeral foods preparation it can be the same rather Christian or not because it really depend on the family expenses and what they want.  I've only been to one Christian funeral so far about a month ago and I have to all the foods there at my grandmother's brother funeral was good.  Some cooked, some take out order from Chinese restaurant, etc.  Some traditional funeral they mainly just have cow cooked and barely anything else.  At my fil's funeral we had all kind of food but nothing too big but just plan that today will be kapoon or fawn served along with the regular dish of cow, pig, etc.  but nothing too much.  Snack, coffee, etc. is there to grab whenever you need it. 

Christian funeral most work are handle by member of their church or other church that are related to the person too.  Traditional is mainly handle by sil, aunt, etc. relatives of the decreased person.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: Believe_N_Me on March 04, 2012, 08:56:40 PM
As far as the "pe" part of the funeral tradition, it all depends on how extreme the family is about their Christian beliefs.

IMO, I believe the average Hmong Christian doesn't think there's anything wrong with it because it's part of Hmong etiquette. The only reason they stopped doing it is because they're fearful of how the church gatekeepers (the extreme Christians in their congregation) will treat them.  :idiot2: Some people (families) have become so powerful and influential in the church that they practically see themselves as God.  ::)
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: megahmong on March 14, 2012, 10:02:33 PM
I am confused here...dull and lifeless??

do u go to funerals expecting it to be at a club with dubstep music blazing and a DJ spinnin?

its like...moarnin g time...funeral s are supposed to be somewhat of a silent atmoshere.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ_ScwrJnfY&feature=related

I dunno what kind of funerals you go to but the funerals i go to are actually lively, loud chatter, hysterical cryings, people laughing, joking. I actually have fun at funerals cause I get to meet so many relatives I would not have met if i try to find them on my own!
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on March 15, 2012, 12:10:12 PM
Thank you all. Came back and learned something new. They open at 8am, speeches started at 10am till 12pm then lunch and then speech again at 4pm and dinner at 6pm. I however did not like the too many songs they have singing up there and no biography spoken of the deceased except for things from the bible. I also do not like how the family thank the church for their love but not the family members and friends who all came. I was also quite surprise to not hear the Pastor speak against non-Christians.  O0

Overall, I do like how the church came to cook and relief the family of that duty though the family did make breakfast and snacks for the guests. It was sad to see everyone leaving after dinner that there wasn't alot of us left to zog hmos till midnight so they told everyone to leave early instead.  There wasn't alot of crying so it was a quite burial too. The pastor said to keep it quite and not cry b/c you'll attracted ghosts instead.  :o

Good thing to know what to expect next time. I was expecting an American receiving and burial but everything is Hmong except there's no qeej and drum.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on March 20, 2012, 11:39:17 AM
Sounds like a typical Christain funeral, except for the Pastor saying no crying b/c you'll attract ghosts.  Mostly Christians don't cry a lot b/c they know that their loved ones went to be with God and that someday they will see each other again in heaven.  Most of the time we cry b/c we miss the deceased or b/c it hit us that we will not see that person again this side of Heaven. 

As for the history on the deceased, ONE of the sermons, either the last one or the second to the last is reserved for that... of course, different people do it differently, but from the funerals that I went to, one is dedicated to talking about the person.

I actually think "hniav" was forbidden by church goers so they cried but it wasn't like crying cry which made the funeral sad to me b/c no one was crying-cry that their loved one has passed. It felt almost like no one was sad this person died. Everybody just pray, sing and bury and that was it. After the burial, in the old tradition, they invite the guests to the house to eat before they leave but in this Christian funeral, everyone went their own way.

Although, I like it for it simpleness but I also didn't like it b/c there were no traditions to follow. I like the qeej and drum and the hais xis on the last night and there was no words of wisdom for the deceased children or grandchildren at this christian funeral.  :( 
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: HmongSandal on May 06, 2014, 05:04:19 PM
Hmm, I also do not know. By reading all the comments, I knew lots of things about a Christian funeral. It's different from a traditional Funeral. I believe there isn't any Saub Kuav, ect.. I think there's nyiaj tshaj ntuj though. Not very sure, because I remember one of my old friend's funeral, people came and gave them money. Considering their Christians. So confusing.  :o
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: chidorix0x on June 24, 2014, 04:46:55 PM
I recently had the pleasure/displeasure of attending a "Hmong-Christian funeral".

What to NOT EXPECT:
Anything remotely traditionally Hmong (except for the attendants of course); and arguably non-Western norms.

What to EXPECT:
A motley of Western influenced practices such as a sermon(s) by the pastor(s), singing the gospels, and prayers on top of prayers.  Oh!  Did I mention singing the gospels to "Hmong musical instrumentals"? ---  LOL!
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: chabee on July 28, 2014, 03:38:46 PM
Can someone light the way for me on what to expect at a Christian funeral? Is there any ka-sue, cua-cha, niam cooking, sho-cuab? (hmong spelling ???) What are my roles as a nyab? Do we cook or do they cater? Who do he give nyiam sunshine too or do we give any at all? Do they zog-hmo? I'm so lost.  :(

I'm CMA and we have all the roles of a traditional funeral, minus txiv xaiv, tshuab qeej, ntaus nruas, hauv qhua, hais xim. None of the old traditional spiritual stuff.

Sunshine money is still collected but it depends on the household to kneel or not. This is where it varies from family to family or church to church. Some families will just say "thank the lord that you're helping donate money for our loss. May God bless you." while some may say "thank you for your donation, may God bless you". I honestly believe that how people say "thank you" doesn't really matter and what matters the most is the "authenticity and genuinety" of it. Before I became a Christian, I was a xyom cuab and there's other xyom cuab(s). The verses we say, they say... may be very deep and long but I gurantee you.... it's a memorized verse which makes it pointless. It's only meaningful if you know what you're saying and doing.
ex of a christian thank you:
ua tsaug os koj tsis ci li es koj tseem qa nyiaj txiaj tuaj pab peb xyom. hnub qab nram ntej, peb paub ua neej ces peb yuav tuaj pab koj li koj pab peb. Yog peb tsis paub ua neej ces, koj tseem pab pab peb los peb yuav pab tsis tau koj tabsi thov kom vajtswv foom koob hmoov rau koj nawb"

There's no zov hmo and it usually ends at about 9pm, after the singing and sermon (usually given by a pastor) daily. The cooking is usually done by the church members (divided into groups for lunch/dinner for the weekend).

As for kneeling, even as a Christian, I will kneel. It's not to say I worship this person but it's a I "respect/honor/thankful" this person for their contribution. People don't give you money because they want you to kneel to them. They give you money because they understand how tragic and hard it is to orchestrate a funeral, as well as how much it costs. We don't know the financials of the family with the loss.

There's no alcohol drinks at Hmong Christian funerals.
Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: thehotone on August 04, 2014, 09:30:53 AM
I'm CMA and we have all the roles of a traditional funeral, minus txiv xaiv, tshuab qeej, ntaus nruas, hauv qhua, hais xim. None of the old traditional spiritual stuff.

As for kneeling, even as a Christian, I will kneel. It's not to say I worship this person but it's a I "respect/honor/thankful" this person for their contribution. People don't give you money because they want you to kneel to them. They give you money because they understand how tragic and hard it is to orchestrate a funeral, as well as how much it costs. We don't know the financials of the family with the loss.

There's no alcohol drinks at Hmong Christian funerals.

chabee, you are CMA?! Wow! When I talked to most of people at CMA they tell me they won't bow down to anyone except the Lord even in terms of formality with wedding or funeral.

Title: Re: What to expect at a Christian funeral
Post by: chabee on August 04, 2014, 02:44:38 PM
chabee, you are CMA?! Wow! When I talked to most of people at CMA they tell me they won't bow down to anyone except the Lord even in terms of formality with wedding or funeral.

That's a thin line. Some Christians think that bowing or kneeling down is instantly worshipping. You can also kneel due to respect. When I kneel, it's for respect and gratitude.

I won't kneel to a shaman or any person who holds a spiritual title though. That would violate my faith because it's spiritual.