PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: HmongKnight on March 08, 2012, 02:57:09 AM
-
Below is rough map of my understanding of the "Qhuab Ke" at Hmong funeral services. This is where he send the spirit of the dead back to his ancestors.
(http://theprofessional007.homestead.com/files/asia26.gif)
-
Surely the lost souls will search to the ends of the Earth and not find peace. Those souls are demonic souls, which are part of the fallen angels. Satan and all of the fallen angels gave a lie to the world and they taught men sorcery of different planes. Until the blowing of "trumpets" or shofar for the gathering of the harvest, those souls will tempt man's heart to becoming evil and vile. The blowing of the trumpet is a festival that "GOD" told the Israelites to keep because it was a foreshadow of good things to come...well at least for the truth seekers. That same feast will be repeated when souls has been arisen in the spiritual plane after the physical death of the earthly body. Remember, using the Bible as our guide, even demonic souls can dwell in animals. For example when Jesus aka Yahshua cast the demons out of the man and Yahshua commands "what is your name" and the demons said "Legion". So there were many demons (a battlefield full of demons) wandering about...but at the end they were cast onto the swines/pigs and ran off the cliff to their deaths.
-
Truthaboveknow ledge:
The map I put above is a hmong history where they come from. We all know that Hmong don't have a history book written anywhere. The only history we have is story tellers from generation to generations by the "Qhuab Ke" at funeral. All "Qhuab Ke" have the same story and same path. For example; if someone in California would die, the "Qhuab Ke" will send his soul from California accross the Pacific Ocean to Thailand, to Laos, to China, to Siberia, to the mountain of Afghanistan, to the desert of Iraq/Iran, acrross the Dead Sea, to Egypt.
-
I want to be a hmong christian so I can port myself direct to heave without travel on the long harsh road...no food no water...no hookers...etc. ...
-
HmongKnight, yes I understand what your map was about. There are two premise that my comment was aimed at. A person consists of a "soul" and the "spirit" of GOD aka YHVH (some people pronounce it YAHWEH and others YOD HE VAH-this is what the Jewish High Priest pronounce it the only one time out of the year during the national repentance day-all other times it is inserted as HaShem). It is customary for the Creator's name to more likely pronounced YAHWEH as most names of Jewish decent has a "yah" in there, such as Eliyah (Elijah), Benjamin Netanyahu, Mattithyahu (Mathew) or Yahshua (Joshua). When someone dies, the spirit or life giving source returns to GOD-referring to Genesis on how GOD breathe in the nostril of Adam to give him life. Then there is the soul, the individual entity that makes a person different from any other individual. There is a huge differentiatio n here between the two. So the first premise is when a person dies, a person's soul automatically enters a different dimensional plane. The second premise is that when a person dies, a person's soul ceased to exist. From all the sources that I have gathered, when a person dies, the soul no longer exist unless that person's life-work was attributed to GOD-Life, Love, Truth, Forgiveness etc. When the time comes, that person's soul who "has been written in the Lamb's Book of Life" shall be arisen again in the spirit plane. Now getting back to the traditional thinking that when a person dies, their soul automatically enters another plane doesn't make sense because the whole world was given a lie by Satan and the devils themselves. It is them that tells everyone that there is life after death because that is what they see, they can never die again because they are in the spirit form-they were angels...they can only be tormented for eternity by GOD. So the corrupted name of the book of Genesis-gene of Isis (actually the book is called Bereshith (The Beginning) in the Hebrew language) GOD tells Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden-the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil or surely they will die. On the contrary what does Satan tells them, "surely if you eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, you shall surely not die". So one of the two is lying right, Yes and NO, they are both correct depending on how you look at their perspective. God refers to them that by eating of that fruit, you will die in the soul and spirit plane. You won't make it. Satan infers that by eating the fruit, it is not poisonous and your body won't die right away. Both GOD and Satan know that the earthly body will wither away "by the sweat of your face you are to eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are, and to dust you return." So you see, GOD's level is always in the spirit form while Satan is always in the earthly flesh form. Satan's domain is Earth and he rules Earth, it was cast from Heaven to Earth. When Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, Jesus did not argue with Satan about rulership on Earth...Jesus simply told Satan to "not tempt the Lord thy (your) GOD". Satan is powerful because "he" is the father of deceit and lies and wickedness. If everyone knows that they will be brought back to life after death...wouldn't you want to steal, cheat, lie and commit all abominations proclaim by GOD. Of course you would, it's only logical but the Truth tells otherwise. Some people will admit to it that everyone will be arisen again but it's because they are of the seed of Satan. They are there to deceit you with only what they know and they will put stumbling blocks to prevent you from the Truth. Now back to the Hmong shaman "qhuab ke" these entities are not the dead person's soul or the spirit of GOD. They are the angelic evil spirit who wonders the ends of the earth. When Jesus performed exorcism from the man who had "a legion of demons" in him, the angelic demons told Jesus that they have no where to go, so Jesus dealt with them and said they can go unto the swines/pigs.
-
I understand what you wrote above, but the map I posted here has a meaning. Look closely and see if you understand what I"m trying to post here. They say a picture worth a thousand words.
As for when a person die where does his/her soul go, I have no idea. Non-hmong christian think his/her soul go back to his/her birth place and wait for a reincarnation. Christian think a dead person's soul go into a place call "resurrection" and wait until the last day then his/her soul will be resurrect into a living body by God.
But the purpose of this "Qhuab Ke" map is to explain why Hmong have similar rituals and beliefs as of those of the Israelites. They seem to come from the same place. Perhaps Hmong is one of the lost tribe of Israel?
-
Yes, most of the details are supporting the idea that Hmongs also share many traditions as those that are found in ancient Israelite practices. In ancient Israelite practice, they cut open the bull's belly and look at what the intestine is trying to tell the high priest, very much like Egypt. In Hmong practices, during weddings and such, the elder or for seers look at chicken feet to foresee the state of the young couple's life. Taking animal parts as using it as a tools to foresee things, is animism. Animism is a form of sacrificing the animal to a "being" and making a ritual out of it. As your map show, and I have not seen it before but all the details that I have been coming across does support it going back to the middle east.
-
Can you correlate the verses in the qhuab ke with the locations on your map, please?
-
very interesting..
-
Below is rough map of my understanding of the "Qhuab Ke" at Hmong funeral services. This is where he send the spirit of the dead back to his ancestors.
(http://theprofessional007.homestead.com/files/asia26.gif)
Haha...is that so?
-
Can you correlate the verses in the qhuab ke with the locations on your map, please?
I don't know the whole "qhuab ke" pattern because I'm a Christian at birth and I was hoping those who know it very well tell me so I can pin point exactly where in the map. What I have above are a few main patterns or locations that kinda caught my attentions after hearing them say it at funeral. Those locations are China's plain, Siberia, Himilaya mountain, and the dead sea. I"m sure there are more locations than these, but like I've said, I don't know the whole pattern because I don't know the whole "qhuab ke" words. But these kinda caught my attentions.
After the Qhuab Ke send his/her soul to his/her birth place to get his clothes, where-ever that is. The Qhuab Ke then tell him/her to go to great great grandma and grandpa after that.
First location that he mentioned is China's plain. In this area there are many wild grasss and twigs and when walking through this path one has to wear a shoe in order to make it through because of the thickness of the twigs. So the qhuab ke ask that he/she has to put on his/her shoe on when walking through this area.
Second location that were mentioned by the Qhuab Ke is the cold weather of Siberia or in hmong "Ntuj Txiag Teb Tsaus". In this region of the world it's very dark and cold.
Third location is the mountain of of the Himalaya. The "qhuab ke" call it "Roob Kab Ntsig something something... I can't make out of that word but what it is, is that by walking through this mountain one can get bite and cut all over. Imagine walking through a mountain of rocks and sharp edges, yOu'll get cut and sting like Kab Ntsig plev.
Fourth location that caught my attention is the Dead Sea, "Dej Iab Dej Daw".. Take a sip of the Dead Sea and see how salty it is.
Like I've said above that there could be more locations and pattens than what I wrote here. Let those who knows the whole "Qhuab Ke" thing give these details so I can pin point them on the map.
-
Just go back to more funerals to hear them again and again and one day you'll know them then.
-
Sorry. Good theory. But when hmong do funeral, they refer to a realm that is not the realm of men. They only put translations into words men can understand. Like going back to Laos does not mean the actual country, it means: the dead has reached its final destination where the journey originally began.
-
Sorry. Good theory. But when hmong do funeral, they refer to a realm that is not the realm of men. They only put translations into words men can understand. Like going back to Laos does not mean the actual country, it means: the dead has reached its final destination where the journey originally began.
So it is all just symbolism? It would be interesting to learn how the words and imagery came about.
-
So it is all just symbolism? It would be interesting to learn how the words and imagery came about.
Yes, for example "parents'luck" most of the time does not pretend to luck as the English translation. Or when a shaman says "at 29 years-old, you will find luck and will be able to be successful", that just means maturity, therefore being able to make better choices for oneself.
The problem is many words cannot describe the other realm, therefore shaman and stories have to translate it into something concrete so the average Hmong can understand. It's like explaining where babies come from to a toddler: you talk to them about the bee and a flower!
-
If Hmong are truly one of the tribe of Israel who are rescued by Moses, then it totally explain why we cannot accept Jesus... he came too late...
-
:D ... :idiot2: ... the "Qhuab Ke" definitely does not lead back to Israel or where ever your map is alluding to.
But yeah, if you want to make that ludicrous assumption so be it.
Your "Qhuab Ke" must be the new American version as I have heard some people complaining that some Txiv Taw Kev and Txiv Coj Xai are adding new verbiage to the original incantations. Examp: Some Txiv Xaiv in CA and NC now say, " ... kom nej tau doctor thiab lawyer ..." ... :2funny:
-
Wonderful to have read some point of views and folks evolving in the USA here. I, myself, have been searching as well...
I'm not going to hit every points and insert arguments but...what I know from listening and practicing Hmong. I can share my opinion.
I think the map is close if one were to interpret the qhua ke and make some assumptions with what we know to date. It does paint alot more questions than answers thought.
What I do know the Hmong belief I was taught (before I turned into a transgender):
- Hmong believe a human body has three spirituals (peb tug ntsuj): Ntsuj siav, Ntsuj Plig, Ntsuj Dab. Ntsuj siav is what you and I able to breath. Ntsuj plig is our mind/heart acting as our shadows, and ntsuj dab is what every living things have with them, a spiritual that travels with the body. WHEN you DIE, ntsuj siav die with you - disappear instantly. Ntsuj plig is what we think what makes us sick (not physical but mental & unexplained illness) when this spiritual is too far away from the body (so call the Shaman to fix this one). AND Ntsuj dab stays with the body even when it is dead - until is rotted, decomposed back into pure dirt (the reason why no plastic or metal in Hmong coffin. Also, very reason why we do TSO PLIG. Ib ntsug 13 hnub -- hnub 1 rau hnub 12 tus plig tseem ua xywm xyav, hnub 13 tus plig yuav tsum mus ua dab lawm). Only then our last ntsuj dab can reborn into a new person/baby in the world. SO THE QHUA KE is really for the Ntsuj PLIG only. Takes that plig to be with the rest of the PLIG already in heaven or hell for that matter with our grandma and grandpa. The Ntsuj Dab will join the ntsuj plig once it is submerged into the ground/dissipated. Then GOD give the ntsuj siav to the new born when the three are back together. CONFUSE ENOUGH YET?
- The thing about "Roob Kab Ntsig, Ntuj Kab Ntsov" - that's the hairy vagina. If you really looking for the honest, deep down, no bulls true meaning
- The "Ntuj Txig Teb Tsaus" - that's when at night the sperm is about to ejaculate, comes the spirit into the woman's body - how you instant life first comes about. This is the truth people...don't over think your head.
Hope this sheds some light.
-
Wonderful to have read some point of views and folks evolving in the USA here. I, myself, have been searching as well...
I'm not going to hit every points and insert arguments but...what I know from listening and practicing Hmong. I can share my opinion.
I think the map is close if one were to interpret the qhua ke and make some assumptions with what we know to date. It does paint alot more questions than answers thought.
What I do know the Hmong belief I was taught (before I turned into a transgender):
- Hmong believe a human body has three spirituals (peb tug ntsuj): Ntsuj siav, Ntsuj Plig, Ntsuj Dab. Ntsuj siav is what you and I able to breath. Ntsuj plig is our mind/heart acting as our shadows, and ntsuj dab is what every living things have with them, a spiritual that travels with the body. WHEN you DIE, ntsuj siav die with you - disappear instantly. Ntsuj plig is what we think what makes us sick (not physical but mental & unexplained illness) when this spiritual is too far away from the body (so call the Shaman to fix this one). AND Ntsuj dab stays with the body even when it is dead - until is rotted, decomposed back into pure dirt (the reason why no plastic or metal in Hmong coffin. Also, very reason why we do TSO PLIG. Ib ntsug 13 hnub -- hnub 1 rau hnub 12 tus plig tseem ua xywm xyav, hnub 13 tus plig yuav tsum mus ua dab lawm). Only then our last ntsuj dab can reborn into a new person/baby in the world. SO THE QHUA KE is really for the Ntsuj PLIG only. Takes that plig to be with the rest of the PLIG already in heaven or hell for that matter with our grandma and grandpa. The Ntsuj Dab will join the ntsuj plig once it is submerged into the ground/dissipated. Then GOD give the ntsuj siav to the new born when the three are back together. CONFUSE ENOUGH YET?
- The thing about "Roob Kab Ntsig, Ntuj Kab Ntsov" - that's the hairy vagina. If you really looking for the honest, deep down, no bulls true meaning
- The "Ntuj Txig Teb Tsaus" - that's when at night the sperm is about to ejaculate, comes the spirit into the woman's body - how you instant life first comes about. This is the truth people...don't over think your head.
Hope this sheds some light.
Wow...you last two point really stands out...I have never thought of that...
-
According to your map, the Hmong were never in NE China. So who was Txivyawg, or Chiyou, to us then? Some mystic being we adopted into our beliefs? Most historians trace the Sanmiao being exported to NW China, Gansu / Xinjiang, and your arrows definitely hit there. Maybe there is where our ancestors came into the stories of Txivyawg.
Kind of like the khi tes ceremony. Most people don't even realize that is not part of the Hmong culture, we simply adopted that from the Lao, as recently as the 1960s
-
Yep, kind of like the betray your own kind thing. Most people don't even realize it's not part of the Hmong culture, we simply adopted that from the Chinese, as recently as the 1800s.
Must have hit a nerve.
-
The "qhuab ke" is similar to other religious doctrines in that it touches upon the tangible world, as well as that of the abstract. Like any other religious doctrines, it should not be taken literally. Once one choose to take it literally then they are already lost.
-
NceejVaj, I have information regarding "SEX MAGIC" that may help in your understanding more. A lot of people do not get the concept that the spiritual realm is closely associated with the physical realm. These are secrets kept by the monks and they are also the same secrets kept by Jewish traditions. If anything is related, it is the Chakras and the TREE OF LIFE known as Kabbalah. At a known frequency, people can meditate and travel through the spiritual plane. But beware, evil demons are everywhere!
-
And needless to say, NASA has just began to realize what that means through the use of modern supercomputers and the understanding of black holes in these different planes.
-
For example; if someone in California would die, the "Qhuab Ke" will send his soul from California accross the Pacific Ocean to Thailand, to Laos, to China, to Siberia, to the mountain of Afghanistan, to the desert of Iraq/Iran, acrross the Dead Sea, to Egypt.
Evolution also mention men coming out of Africa too. So if this charts is true then human being evoled from ape. The charts does need to go down a little further into central Africa.
-
Wonderful to have read some point of views and folks evolving in the USA here. I, myself, have been searching as well...
I'm not going to hit every points and insert arguments but...what I know from listening and practicing Hmong. I can share my opinion.
I think the map is close if one were to interpret the qhua ke and make some assumptions with what we know to date. It does paint alot more questions than answers thought.
What I do know the Hmong belief I was taught (before I turned into a transgender):
- Hmong believe a human body has three spirituals (peb tug ntsuj): Ntsuj siav, Ntsuj Plig, Ntsuj Dab. Ntsuj siav is what you and I able to breath. Ntsuj plig is our mind/heart acting as our shadows, and ntsuj dab is what every living things have with them, a spiritual that travels with the body. WHEN you DIE, ntsuj siav die with you - disappear instantly. Ntsuj plig is what we think what makes us sick (not physical but mental & unexplained illness) when this spiritual is too far away from the body (so call the Shaman to fix this one). AND Ntsuj dab stays with the body even when it is dead - until is rotted, decomposed back into pure dirt (the reason why no plastic or metal in Hmong coffin. Also, very reason why we do TSO PLIG. Ib ntsug 13 hnub -- hnub 1 rau hnub 12 tus plig tseem ua xywm xyav, hnub 13 tus plig yuav tsum mus ua dab lawm). Only then our last ntsuj dab can reborn into a new person/baby in the world. SO THE QHUA KE is really for the Ntsuj PLIG only. Takes that plig to be with the rest of the PLIG already in heaven or hell for that matter with our grandma and grandpa. The Ntsuj Dab will join the ntsuj plig once it is submerged into the ground/dissipated. Then GOD give the ntsuj siav to the new born when the three are back together. CONFUSE ENOUGH YET?
- The thing about "Roob Kab Ntsig, Ntuj Kab Ntsov" - that's the hairy vagina. If you really looking for the honest, deep down, no bulls true meaning
- The "Ntuj Txig Teb Tsaus" - that's when at night the sperm is about to ejaculate, comes the spirit into the woman's body - how you instant life first comes about. This is the truth people...don't over think your head.
Hope this sheds some light.
I just want to add my insight on "Ib ntsug 13 hnub" --- tswm sim nyob rau thaum noob neej neeg zaum ob. Lub caij no yog thaum ib tub neeg twg tau tas siav nro ces lawv muab nws lub cev coj mus pw kom puv 13 hnub (Zoo li Yesxus uas tuag tau 3 hnub ces sawv rov los). Nyob rau hnub 13 ces lub cev mamli plis tag (zooli tub nab thaub nws plis cev) ces neeg ntawd ciali sawv rov los lawm xwb. Nyob rau noob neej neeg zaum peb uas yog peb tiam tab sim no. Lawm thiab li muab cov cai hauv tag lawm, dabtsi haiv neeg Hmoob thiaj li tseem ceev tau coj siv txog niaj hnub niam no.
-
Which part of the quab ke did you get that route from?
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Qha+Ke+%28guiding+the+way%29+from+the+Hmong+Ntsu+of+China%2c+1943.-a0207392381 (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Qha+Ke+%28guiding+the+way%29+from+the+Hmong+Ntsu+of+China%2c+1943.-a0207392381)
-
That's not part of the map or route. It's more like when and how the "Qhuab Ke" came to exist.
-
That's not part of the map or route. It's more like when and how the "Qhuab Ke" came to exist.
Are you talking about the map or the translation of the Qhuab Ke? This version of the Qhuab Ke is considered one of the purist in form because it was not influenced by Christianity (subject to debate on purist form; wished them ancestors would have just written it down like everyone else), and it does not mention any landscape in the middle east.
According to the religion of god (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity), the world is 6000 years old. o3a3b-M7, the Hmong ydna genetic marker is approximately 20,000 years old, and Jewish have a mix of ydna of g1 range and g2 range (undated).
Though I am not and do not claim to be a DNA specialist, o3 and g1, g2 are two completely different genes therefor making us not related to them in any way shape or form within the last 20,000 years. If Hmong are the lost tribe, Hmong would have ydna marker g1 and g2 also.
-
Are you talking about the map or the translation of the Qhuab Ke? This version of the Qhuab Ke is considered one of the purist in form because it was not influenced by Christianity (subject to debate on purist form; wished them ancestors would have just written it down like everyone else), and it does not mention any landscape in the middle east.
According to the religion of god (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity), the world is 6000 years old. o3a3b-M7, the Hmong ydna genetic marker is approximately 20,000 years old, and Jewish have a mix of ydna of g1 range and g2 range (undated).
Though I am not and do not claim to be a DNA specialist, o3 and g1, g2 are two completely different genes therefor making us not related to them in any way shape or form within the last 20,000 years. If Hmong are the lost tribe, Hmong would have ydna marker g1 and g2 also.
Neither the map or the translation of the Qhuab Ke. What I was talking about was way before the Qhuab Ke even exist. I'm wondering if Ruey Yih-Fu or any of his follower have the other half of his version of the "Qhuab Ke".
-
Interesting...
Too bad QhuabKe is prohibited to be play inside the house...or listen to it everyday...
I do wonder, what if we do listen to it everyday...
-
Kuv tsistxawj sau ua lus askiv li nej cov uas yog Ph.D. Tabsis kuv xavtias tsoom Hmoob hluas yeej tsuashnov covlaus thamxwb yeej tsis paub qhovtseeb, thiab tsis totaub lubjiab. Yogli kev sibcav thiaj tsismuaj chawxaus. lolus uas haistias Hmoob yog txhawv hauv suavteb los thiab haistias suav thiab Hmoob yeej yog kwvtij no twb txhaum (tsisyog) lawm. Nej yog neeg Mekas nej haislus Hmoob thiaj tsis raug thiab tsis yog lawd!... Tamsimno, kuv tsisnrog nej cavtxog cov Christian los non-Christian, Kuv tsuas xavpaub neejhmoob qhovtseeb xwb? Uali zaj tawkev ne! ho coj Hmoob tusplig mus rau qhovtwg lawmtiag? Thaum kuv pom koj daim thivmeemteb (Mape) kuj uarau kuv ceeb thiab.
-
Kuv tsistxawj sau ua lus askiv li nej cov uas yog Ph.D. Tabsis kuv xavtias tsoom Hmoob hluas yeej tsuashnov covlaus thamxwb yeej tsis paub qhovtseeb, thiab tsis totaub lubjiab. Yogli kev sibcav thiaj tsismuaj chawxaus. lolus uas haistias Hmoob yog txhawv hauv suavteb los thiab haistias suav thiab Hmoob yeej yog kwvtij no twb txhaum (tsisyog) lawm. Nej yog neeg Mekas nej haislus Hmoob thiaj tsis raug thiab tsis yog lawd!... Tamsimno, kuv tsisnrog nej cavtxog cov Christian los non-Christian, Kuv tsuas xavpaub neejhmoob qhovtseeb xwb? Uali zaj tawkev ne! ho coj Hmoob tusplig mus rau qhovtwg lawmtiag? Thaum kuv pom koj daim thivmeemteb (Mape) kuj uarau kuv ceeb thiab.
Kuv qhia rau koj tias kuv family is very traditional. Kuv txiv coj kev cai hmoob nruj heev, nws tawkev, ua kav xwv, ua mejkoob, ua txiv nkauj, ua Txiv xaiv. Tag nrho ib puas tsav yam, kuv txiv kam qhia kuv tabsis, taw kev kuv txiv tsis kam...
Nws tagsim neej xyoo tag los lawm.
-
Pab koj tusiab, kuv txiv los kuj ncaim kuv mus lawm thiab. Kuv tsis paubtias uacas koj txiv ho tsiskam qhia rau koj? rawsli kuv xav mas yog yam uas tsiszoo nws thiaj tsis qhia. tiamsis yog tsiszoo no uacas txhuatus Hmoob tuag yuovtsum tau tawkev xwb thiajtas? Ib tug kwvtij sau haistias kawm tsistau, txwv! nomas tsisyog lawm thiab. yog txwv tsispub kawm no hmoob covplig ho yuov mus lawm txojkev twg? yuov uacas paub mus cuagpog cuagyawg yog tias tsis muaj tus txawj tawkev lawm? Yog tias peb sibcam (debate) qhovno tsistiav, peb yuov ualicas paubtias hmoob yog leejtwg thiab los qhovtwg los?
-
there are only three ways for you to chose as:
1. Even you like it or not, you have no choice. The guiderman (tus txiv tawkev) has the authority to uses the split baboo (tus txhibntawg) to knock you out and force you to go, because it is the way that grandma grandpa have made that way (pog uatseg yawg uacia yeej mus lintawd).
2. The Christian people proclaim that they teach and learn every sunday. they said that thay are not afraid of it. because that is the way their souls want to go.
3. you have no neither way to go. only become cut up evil (dab tucaj tuces) and begging in the raod.
this issue need to be consider. this is only for my hmoob brothers thanks.
-
For Hmoob people I'm afraid singmong is correct. However, when Salvation was poured out to the Gentiles...the re was one exception. If you want to learn and I mean really learn who you are...I highly suggest you learn your true roots...that came from Cain, son of Satan, who traveled Eastward. This mythical instrument "hmoob qeej" will tell you everything along with the "flower cloth". You are all seed of the Serpent and here is your ROOT.
If you search deep enough you will find answers that you won't like.
-
I am glade that you have respond my post of the Singmong. If you go to Cain the son of Adam, you may go to far. and the Bible did not said that Cain was the son of the Satan. When we qoutes the Bible, should be carefull other while we may agaist God. Yes, Our Lord Jesus Crhist came to the world to save the siners and the gentiles like us. But to discover our root is very important to identify our identity, so the world will recognized and we will get blessing.
-
If you affraid to discovered the truth what would the truth profit you? If you know the truth that truth will safe you free. if you affrid to the devil, it will knock you out of the ring! if you you want to be a Hmong anthropologist and scholar you need to know how big and how long the serpent is? And how strong it is? Or you talking about the Satan who killed humankind? God even killed mens too. How doyou know who is God, and who is Satan? God kills the unrighteuos, and Satan kills the righteuos right? Satan is Hmong's biggest enimy who knockdown the Hmong from the begining right? I don't think you know the Satan's philosophies of conquoring the Hmong people. If you you know, you and I we should be the same team.
-
Below is rough map of my understanding of the "Qhuab Ke" at Hmong funeral services. This is where he send the spirit of the dead back to his ancestors.
(http://theprofessional007.homestead.com/files/asia26.gif)
Can you give us phrases to support each point on the map?
What makes you think the soul goes through Siberia? Afganistan?
-
Kuv yuov tsiszais tej no rau peb tsoom tub tshawbfawb txhuatus, vim tamsim no tsuas tshuav koj thiab kuv peb thiaj tseem mobsiab tig rovlos nrhiav txog zajno kom rov nrhiav tau lubneej Hmoob. Tabsis tusiab uas koj daim thivmeemteb (map) mus tsistxog qhov uas kuv yuovpiav. Txawmlicas losxij, cia kuv piav kom luv baumli luv tau rau koj mloog lino. Koj yuovtau pib ntawm tebchaw US no mus rau Thaibteb, hla dej musrau Blog teb, ces musrau Cabtsib teb, musrau Suavteb (Tsoobkuj). Pibntawm Suavteb mus ces yog musnce rau toj kabjuab dawm kabjig, nce mus ntxiv rau roob dausxib dausbu, ntxeemus rau sabtom tebchaw mojsabqhua, mus haus rau tiaj tevqij tevdos, mus haus dej-iab dejdaw tas mas mamli mus cuagpog cuagyawg tom ntujtshav tebnqhuab, ntuj txias tebtsaus.
Hmong zaj tawkev mas haistxawv cov dabneeg thiab cov lustham lossis cov ntawv sau. Feemntau ces covlaus yeej piav rawsgaus li kuv hais no. Tabsis rawsli Scholar Savina sau mas tseem ntxaws dua li tej Hmoob laus piav lawm thiab. Cov tub sauntawv txawm sau haistias roob dausxib dausbu cas ntsheyog puagpem saiberia lossis Rusia lawm, rau kuv noces ho tsisxav tias Hmoob yuovmus deb baumlintawd, tabsis thajtsam saumroob Himaliya xwb twbyeej raug rawsli Hmob zajtawkev lawm, vim saum yeej tsaushuab yuavluag 6 lub hlis rawsli Hmoob piav lawd.
Kuv jeeg tias Hmoob yog ibxeem hauv 12 xeem Israel, yogli Hmoob yuovtsum losdeb dua li koj daim thivmeemteb (map). Qhia rau koj, nej paubtias kuv li kev tshawbfawb thiab ntaubntawv txhuayam twb tiavtas lawm tsuastos luamtawm lawm xwb.
-
Interesting...
Too bad QhuabKe is prohibited to be play inside the house...or listen to it everyday...
I do wonder, what if we do listen to it everyday...
zaj taws ke , you can listen or sing while you're on the road whether to the store or work. as long as it's not inside your house. it's like opening a portal to the dead. or inviting the dead.
Nyob ib rab tej nyias muaj nyias ib rag txuj, feeb coob cov laus tias yog tsis paub txhob kawm txhob ua. Tsis zoo ua ntau ntau rooj, maximum tej zaum three per year yuav tau caiv kom puv ib xyoo
-
As a Christian, why your spirit is so weak. If you don't know Mr. Satan how could you know Mr. God too? We the Crhistian, the child of God, the warrior of the universe, I don't what the Hmong old men say, I have to believe what my God has teach me. Hmong scholar and Anthroplogist don't procedure of confuseion that Satan had trick the Hmong from the begining. To me Undertand how the Satan trick the Hmong from the beginning. First, the Hmong and the devil (dab) living together in the same world, they see each others,but latter the Hmong has trade all the devils for food or drink. until the devil almost gone and only two were left, so they go up to get consel from Satan(Ntxwjnyoos), then Ntxwjnyoos gave them the idea to come back and throw the ashes to each other. The Hmong did not careful then the devil (dab) thown the ashes to the Hmong's eyes until blind and could not throw them back to the Devil and they were diden. So the revenge is that the Ntxwjnyoos and dab sell the Hmong to eat (ua dabqhev till now and the Hmong don't know the story, even they still practice every day without knowing the truth. I cecommand you to read the book of Job again.
-
Every interesting. There was a Christian OG came to my house today to talk to me about God, and he accepted that Hmong actually came from Iraq. He even argued that toj kab ntsig dawm kab no is just over at the boarder of china and Vietnam and daus xib daus npu is just somewhere in Russia. Furthermore, he said that the taw kev only drop the hmong soul half way, somewhere in Russia, and doesn't take the soul all the way to Iraq. Seems like Hmong Christians accept this notion that hmong came from the Middle East and was one of the lost tribe ofIsrael.
I'm a simple man, and I like to put this hmong origin issue in a simple way once and for all. I believe within the last seven thousand years, hmong have been where they are today, south and central china, and that's where hmong originated from. The genetic theory confirmed this. It lacked all the evidences suggested that Hmong came from Siberia, Mongolia, or Middle East. I don't think a single people can trace its root further than five thousands years old. Even the chinese don't know where they came from beyond that period of time. Since nobody knows beyond that time, who cares!
I also believe the taw kev is simply something for the soul, and its physical path does not exist on any physical land on this earth. Interpreting the taw kev for a physical reality is simply impossible as interpreting dreams.
Not until science can prove that homo sapien sapien evolves in the Middle East, I will never accept that Hmong came from there, even though I know that some scholar such as Zacheria Sitchen had some convincing information that human being was created my alien, the one we call God, in a laboratory in Mesopotamia some 40,000 years ago to be their slave.
-
There are only two theories as the creation and evolution, what ever you bevieve, if you talk about scientific as the evolution theory that mean you are not Hmong scholar and anthropologist and what you have done the Hmong not ganna use it. Hmong's religion is believing God as (lubntuj) and Ntxwjnyoos only, Nyujvagteem is the gudgement point where the Hmong souls will go and get our judgement. This is not a dream, it is real.
You will believe it or not, but I guarantee that one day when you are at the 120 day (puv 120 xyoo) a Hmong old man will be your chanter/guider (tawkev) and leasd your soul or show you the the way back to your ansectors where the Hmong from (ntujtxias tebtsaus ntujtshav tebnqhuab). Since that they put a piece of red fablic cover your mouth and say you have no right to say any thing, because the dead law not allow any body to say any word. After that you will not seeing any of the alien (neeg qaumntuj) appist (liab) in the realm world as you said. what you will see only either God or Ntxwjnyoos.
Every book and scholar did not say that Hmong originated from China, they say, "maybe, or not sure". This made all the authors confused that's why thay said maybe, or not sure. Only the Hmong themselves think that, but they say someting and do another thing. Base on the Hmong oral hitory it could be true that some of the Hmong were from china because they were the adopted chinese children or slavery to the Hmong families and then fallow their Hmong masters to the South.
-
Nej cov ntseeg tias Hmoob los Middle East los es pheej cam haistias Hmoob zaj qhuab ke yog muab ntsuj plig xa mus Pov rau pem Siberia xwb no yuav tau cuab pob ntseg zoo rov mloog thiab kawm zaj qhuab ke kom meej ntxiv nawb. Zaj qhuab ke, Tom qab thaum mus nqa tsho tsuj tsho npuag tas lawm, ntos txog 39 tshooj ntug uas yog 39 theem ntaiv ntuj mam mus cuag pog yawg, Tswv Ntuj, nyob rau saum ntuj nawb. 39 tshooj NTUG no tsis tau txhais tias yog ib txoj kev mus ib lub teb chaws rau ib lub tebchaws laiv. Thaum ua ntej mus nqa tsho tsuj tsho npuag ntawv mas yeej mus ib lub tebchaws rau ib lub tebchaws raws li qhov tus neeg tau los lawm, tiamsis yav no zaj qhuab ke yeej hais meej tias yog tebchaws, yog daim av, tsis tau yog mus pem ntuj no laid. Ua yog Hmoob nim los through Siberia Los no lo lus Hmoob rau "snow" yog dabtsi nas? Lo lus haistias "daus lossis daus xib dau npu" tsis tau completely mean tias yog snow no laid. Daus is nothing more than the freezing of the dew point in early autumn. And once the hmong came to this country, they just use the word daus for snow. Go back to Laos and ask the Hmong on the mountain in the middle of nowhere the word "daus" to see what their description is. Until then, why don't we all just accept the fact that we came from China once and for all. I think it's ridiculous for one people to have different origin stories.
-
For those of you who practiced or know someone who practiced shamanism, have you ever seen the way to heaven on your shaman journey to the underworld?
-
Tubpojntxoog,
Cov lus koj hais txog zaj "Qhuab Ke", kuv nkag siab. Txawm kuv tsis paub zaj "Qhuab Ke" zoo zoo luaj tug los kuv to taub ib yam lid koj thiab. Tsis ta lid xwb, kuv kuj tsis tau hnov los sis tau paub ib tug Txiv Qhuab Ke tug tau hais meej meej hais tias, nws yuav xa ib tug tib neeg mus rau Middle East, Siberia, or where ever ces mam mus cuag Poj cuag Yawm. (They only traverse the country, state, city/town/village that they lived in throughout and during their lifetime then climb the ladders like you said off to "heaven" -- yeah yeah, thru Ntxwv Nyoog teb too.)
Qhov confusing kuv tshaj plaws mas yog niaj hnub nod, and recently, peb ib cov laus pheej hais dab neeg tias Hmoob nyob thiab los "Muam Nkauj Liag" - Mongolia los, ??? This is all new to me as I have only heard of Savina's theory = Middle East, Siberia=the snow or "daus" theory, and the more academically accepted Chinese origin.
I personally believe we may have come from Siberia into China, as it is in close proximity. But the Middle East, I am not totally convinced, although there are Hmong folklore reminiscent of the Tower of Babel and the Great Flood per the holy gospel. Other than that, our language and customs are uniquely different from Middle East/Jews.
Regardless, there is no DEFINITIVE answer or solution, and to say one or the other as FACT is in fact FALSE. We, or anyone for that matter, just do not know period.
-
For those of you who practiced or know someone who practiced shamanism, have you ever seen the way to heaven on your shaman journey to the underworld?
:idiot2: ... :2funny:
-
:idiot2: ... :2funny:
I can honestly tell you, as I have been practicing shamanism for almost three years now, that anyone who tell you that he/she has seen the way to heaven or has seen the dead while performinig shamanisn is simply a big fat liar. All you see is your sticks ( xyab) burning in front of you, and that's it. However, that doesn't mean that shamanism is fraud. Every time I do, I try not to shake to see what happen, but all the sudden, there is something making me shake, and I just don't know what that thing is. When I just started, I was shaking so much that I felt like something (almost like a gravitational force) was pulling my body up. At the same time, your legs, arms, hands, and throat are freezed and shaky, therefore, some shaman can't speak clearly while performing. Anyway, while a shaman performs, he/ she don't pay much attention to his/her sight. Your attention is focused on how you feel, and there is something leading your feeling to wherever it goes. This is how we shaman determine the cause of an illness, not the result of the test done in the lab. After the performance, you actually feel very good, such as happy, relaxed, and patient--not the same feeling that you have after an exercise. I still don't understand what cause this mood changes.
-
Yogli ces kuj txhais haistias koj tsispaub qhov koj hais, Koj daim thivmeemteb kuj tsistseemceeb dabtsi? ua cas koj muab cojlos tham thiab nrhiav keebkwm? Yoglawm, zaj tawkev yovtau mus kom ntontuj mam ho rov nqis qhov musrau tubtuag teb rawsnkaus li Hmoob poj hmoob yawm mus ntag lasmas yawg. Hmong lost all the documents when the Chinese empors took control and the Hmong (ntujteb taag qa ncuab lawm losmas metub awh). Kuv recommand rau koj tias, ntshe koj ho mus taug dua lwm txojkev jeeg uas tsis yog Hmoob txoj ces nyaj koj yovdim! tabsis tiamno koj tseem yog tus Hmoob ces txhobvam tias yov khiavdim Hmoob tu txhibntawg thiab zaj qhuabke kiagli losmas me kwv ntxawg. Kub twb hais rau koj lawm tias guarantee kiag no na has....
-
3 years of shaman under your belt means you are a beginner. My guess is you are probably a 20 something yr. old guy just starting to learn. From what I have heard, some diehard shaman gets on a spiritual horse and "flys" from place to place deeper into the spiritual realm to appease the spirits of each realm. As you go deeper, you must remember your way back, otherwise you will be spiritually lost. You carry a sword as well to fight your way, riding on your spiritual horse. The idea is to get to the innermost spiritual realm where the more powerful spirits causing the illness resides...some even "sees" the narrow road to heaven on their journey...hear d this from a long time shaman...BTW if you watch the American movie "INSIDIUOS", you will know what I am talking about...
-
:idiot2: ... :2funny:
Laugh all you want hotshot. You think you know it all ?
-
Laugh all you want hotshot. You think you know it all ?
It's :2funny: how you do not even realize/know how :idiot2: and :D you make yourself ... :2funny: , :idiot2: ... but oh wells ... O0 (Ignorance is bliss ... 8))
-
^^Dude, speak in complete English sentences and maybe I can debate intelligently with you. I do not speak sign language...per haps I can recommend some ESL teacher for you ?
-
joot,
Don't blame your ESL teachers yo -- for your :idiot2: I mean ... :2funny:
-
Cov phoojywg, Peb yuglos ua Hmoob, haislus Hmoob, nojmov Hmoob, thiab ua lubneej Hmoob tiagx. Rawsli kuv sojjuam nej covlus mas zoo xwsli yus tsispaub qhov yus hais thiab tsispaub qhov yus ua xwsli cov laus thaum ub thiab ntag. Kuv xavkom peb txhobdab peb tuskheej. (Don't trick your self, but treat your self.)
Kuv qhia rau nej paubtias, Hmoob yog ibpab tibneeg uas jeeg jujplig xws li haistias, nrabneej nrabdab (nyob ces ciajneeg tuag ces ciajdab) Hmoob laus haistias lawv los Suavteb los tsuasyog hais qhov yoojyim mloogxwb tsistau tham tasnrho zaj dabneeg vim nyias muaj nyias ntu pib thaum chivkeeb lostxog rau niajhnub nimno. Lwm hnub peb tej menyuam yov tsis haistxog koj peb cov dabneeg lawm. Lawv tsuas piav haistias hnov tejlaus haistias Hmoob tuaj Blogteb thiab Thaibteb tuaj no xwb.
Nej twb tsistau ua servay Hmong cov anthropologist, nej tsuas nyeem other scholars cov theories xwb mas nej tsisyog Hmoob lawm.
-
joot,
Don't blame your ESL teachers yo -- for your :idiot2: I mean ... :2funny:
^^Dude, I don't know what mental state you are in but I must say I have never ran into anyone online as idiotic as you. You deserve that name and title. If there was a trophy, I would give you that.....
Seems learning how to debate on the subject and not the person is not in your vocabulary...
-
Cov phoojywg, Peb yuglos ua Hmoob, haislus Hmoob, nojmov Hmoob, thiab ua lubneej Hmoob tiagx. Rawsli kuv sojjuam nej covlus mas zoo xwsli yus tsispaub qhov yus hais thiab tsispaub qhov yus ua xwsli cov laus thaum ub thiab ntag. Kuv xavkom peb txhobdab peb tuskheej. (Don't trick your self, but treat your self.)
Kuv qhia rau nej paubtias, Hmoob yog ibpab tibneeg uas jeeg jujplig xws li haistias, nrabneej nrabdab (nyob ces ciajneeg tuag ces ciajdab) Hmoob laus haistias lawv los Suavteb los tsuasyog hais qhov yoojyim mloogxwb tsistau tham tasnrho zaj dabneeg vim nyias muaj nyias ntu pib thaum chivkeeb lostxog rau niajhnub nimno. Lwm hnub peb tej menyuam yov tsis haistxog koj peb cov dabneeg lawm. Lawv tsuas piav haistias hnov tejlaus haistias Hmoob tuaj Blogteb thiab Thaibteb tuaj no xwb.
Nej twb tsistau ua servay Hmong cov anthropologist, nej tsuas nyeem other scholars cov theories xwb mas nej tsisyog Hmoob lawm.
Kuv tsis yog yuav los thuam los sis los nrog koj sib cav, tiam sid raws lid koj cov lus kuv "BOLD" ntawd - saum toj nod. Yog koj ntseeg lid koj cov lus hais, vim lid cas koj ho sau thiab hais lus Hmoob zoo lid nod thiab: (Examp: koj hais thiab sau Ntawv Hmoob zoo lid nod: jujplig, ciajdab, Blogteb, haistxog, niajhnub nimno) Cov lus nod txais tau hais tias yog LUS Hmoob lawm no lod? Cas kuv tsis tau pom thiab paub dua lid? (Truth is, I know how it works or why you wrote that way. My point is -- is that Hmong as it was initially derived, taught, and learned since its inception?)
The rest, kuv tsis xav "debate" vim nyias muaj nyias qhov ntseeg, kawm, and personal opinion. Also, peb cov Hmoob anthropologist s/scholars are also only nyeem from other scholars exclusively or mainly and mostly. Lawd yeej tsis paub ib yam lid koj los sis kuv -- qhov tseeb versus qhov cuam, tsuas surmise via other scholars too.
And "joot", I'll give you my second, hour, or time of the day when you are semi-worthwhile okay? Till then, :D ... O0
-
You have to be cool down, you know if your name devil (pojntxoog) this is trick or treat? We are in a ring of debating or spiritual fight. I know how weak you are that's while you got rob from ntxwjnyoos and never win, even all the Hmong too. The way you say that because you don't know the Hmong philosopher who now know exxactly who is the Ntxwjnyoos is and his servants devil are?
Brother I tell you that only the young man don't know the Hmong history because they have been brain washed and only copy others, this is said by Professor Wu rhong chen of the Hmong scholar in China.
-
Kuv ntseeg tias kuv haislus Hmoob zoo tshaj koj, nej txhuatus, tiamsis peb tseem yuav kho covntawv Hmoob no kom meej thiab sai tshaj qhovqub. Kuv xavtias ib cov tub tuaj kawmntawv li koj ,nej nkagsiab kuv covntawv thiab cov lus zoo no?
Tsisyog khav tabsis saibmus lawm yavtomntej.
-
Kuv tsis yog yuav los thuam los sis los nrog koj sib cav, tiam sid raws lid koj cov lus kuv "BOLD" ntawd - saum toj nod. Yog koj ntseeg lid koj cov lus hais, vim lid cas koj ho sau thiab hais lus Hmoob zoo lid nod thiab: (Examp: koj hais thiab sau Ntawv Hmoob zoo lid nod: jujplig, ciajdab, Blogteb, haistxog, niajhnub nimno) Cov lus nod txais tau hais tias yog LUS Hmoob lawm no lod? Cas kuv tsis tau pom thiab paub dua lid? (Truth is, I know how it works or why you wrote that way. My point is -- is that Hmong as it was initially derived, taught, and learned since its inception?)
The rest, kuv tsis xav "debate" vim nyias muaj nyias qhov ntseeg, kawm, and personal opinion. Also, peb cov Hmoob anthropologist s/scholars are also only nyeem from other scholars exclusively or mainly and mostly. Lawd yeej tsis paub ib yam lid koj los sis kuv -- qhov tseeb versus qhov cuam, tsuas surmise via other scholars too.
And "joot", I'll give you my second, hour, or time of the day when you are semi-worthwhile okay? Till then, :D ... O0
Me no understand what you want to debate 'bout. Go pick someone with same intelligence like yourself to debate with...I have no time to waste on children like you...
-
Kuv ntseeg tias kuv haislus Hmoob zoo tshaj koj, nej txhuatus, tiamsis peb tseem yuav kho covntawv Hmoob no kom meej thiab sai tshaj qhovqub. Kuv xavtias ib cov tub tuaj kawmntawv li koj ,nej nkagsiab kuv covntawv thiab cov lus zoo no?
Tsisyog khav tabsis saibmus lawm yavtomntej.
Hais txog lus Hmoob xwb, tej zaum muaj lid koj hais vim feem coob, xws lid kuv, peb tuaj hlob teb chaws nod thaum peb tseem yog me nyuam ab xwb. Peb cov muaj peev xwm lid kuv mam paub, kawm, thiab hais lus Hmoob zuj zus los xwb ces yeej paub lus Hmoob tsis tag los sis meej - zoo zoo. Ib txhia twb tsis paub hais lus Hmoob kiag lid lawm, twb tsis hais sau thiab nyeem laud.
Hos yog qhov yuav tawm tswv yim los kho Ntawv Hmoob los sis Hmoob kiag, kuv xav thiab ntseeg hais tias nej cov laus thiab peb cov hluas kuj tsis pauv tsis ntxid luaj twg. Hais txog tus Ntawv Hmoob Las Tees xwb, kuv twb pom thiab paub ntau ntau tus khav thiab npav los kho, ever since 1980s, los lawm los txog niaj hnub nod. Thaum kawg ces swb qhov "original inception" lid kuv sau etc.. Cov "simplied" muaj NTS ua J, NPL ua BL, NP ua B, ces siv tsawg kawg kias, tsis muaj lid los yog. Ua lid nod, sau J, BL, and B etc.., tsis make sense thiab yog lus los sis lub suab Hmoob lawm, koj sim ntsia mus seb pus yog nawb yog yuav sid cov Tsiaj Ntawv nod.
Qhov tseeb, kuv kuj pom zoo muab ib co lus sau uake - as compound words - lid tebchaws, menyuam, dabtsid, hnubno, but sadly that STANDARD or practice is NONEXISTENT ces tus twg xav sau lidcas los tau tagnhrolid nyobntawm tus neeg ntawd nws nyiam los pomzoo xwb. Tsistauyog ibtxoj cai lossis kev txhuatxhua tus neeg Hmoob lossis lwmhaivneeg nyiam, pomzoo, thiab saumus, uamus, sidmus. Tsistaslidxwb, kuv pom obpebplaub yam yuav tau KHOthiabntxid, tsis need discuss here, because it is pointless. But yog muaj sauuakelidnodl awmces hajyamtsismeej lawm. Koj hoxavned pusyoglostsisy od, vim muabcabmuabtxu auaketagnrholi dlawm tsispaubqhovpi dqhovsaus lidlawmlaud -- hajyamtsisMAKE SENSElidlawmti agtiaglidosnaw b ... :idiot2: ... :idiot2: ... :2funny: Ustsaug.
-
3 years of shaman under your belt means you are a beginner. My guess is you are probably a 20 something yr. old guy just starting to learn. From what I have heard, some diehard shaman gets on a spiritual horse and "flys" from place to place deeper into the spiritual realm to appease the spirits of each realm. As you go deeper, you must remember your way back, otherwise you will be spiritually lost. You carry a sword as well to fight your way, riding on your spiritual horse. The idea is to get to the innermost spiritual realm where the more powerful spirits causing the illness resides...some even "sees" the narrow road to heaven on their journey...hear d this from a long time shaman...BTW if you watch the American movie "INSIDIUOS", you will know what I am talking about...
Joot,
I laugh when I heard someone said or believe what you mentioned above, unless the shaman argues that not his physical body but his mind. Yes, I'm just a beginner, but my master has over three decades of experience, my uncle also has almost 40 years of experience, and my cousin has done since 1956. They all are the experts of Hmong culture. Based on my interview of these individuals, they also believe that anyone who claims to see the deads and communicate with them or see the heaven, heal, or anything while performing is simply a big fat liar who is trying to deceive people for his personal gain. I'm telling you with my honesty, so I will leave you the choice to choose what you believe.
As you can tell from my writing that I speak broken English, no, I'm not in my 20s.
-
Qhovtseeb tiag peb covlaus yeej haislus tsis-haum nej siab, tiamsis peb xavtias kho komhaum cov laus thiab cov lhuas sawvdaws siab, tabsis, koj simxav seb, niajhnub nimno cov hluas li nej khavtheeb heev covlaus thiaj tsisxav pubmov rau noj lawm, cov hluas ho xa covlaus mus pov rautom tsev tuagtshaib. qhovno yog leejtwg li teebmeem? yog koj kuv li teebmeem ntag posyog? yuavtau kho hlwb kom meejpem, tham lub ntsiablus twg mas tham thiab kho komtiav Hmoob tiamno siv hosv...
Koj thamtxog dabqhuas, kuv nrog koj tham dabqhuas, koj pauv mus tham keebkwm, kuv nrog koj tham keebkwm, zaumno koj ho mus haistxog lu ua abtsi maj los? ua li no ces yog neeg tsis meejpem losmas. Tshuav ntauyam uas nej cov lhuas tseem yuavtau kawm thiab kho ntxiv thiaj yuavtau los ua Hmoob li thawj coj mog.
-
Kuv ntseeg tias kuv haislus Hmoob zoo tshaj koj, nej txhuatus, tiamsis peb tseem yuav kho covntawv Hmoob no kom meej thiab sai tshaj qhovqub. Kuv xavtias ib cov tub tuaj kawmntawv li koj ,nej nkagsiab kuv covntawv thiab cov lus zoo no?
Tsisyog khav tabsis saibmus lawm yavtomntej.
Kuv xyaum sau ntawv Hmoob pug 1984 los lawm, tiamsis kuv tsis tau pom ib tug Hmoob twg sau li singmong thiab laid. However, I'm impressed to see many of you who were born and/or raised in this country that are able to write Hmong very well. Congrat. for you and "YES" we want our hmong kids to be like you.
-
Qhovtseeb tiag peb covlaus yeej haislus tsis-haum nej siab, tiamsis peb xavtias kho komhaum cov laus thiab cov lhuas sawvdaws siab, tabsis, koj simxav seb, niajhnub nimno cov hluas li nej khavtheeb heev covlaus thiaj tsisxav pubmov rau noj lawm, cov hluas ho xa covlaus mus pov rautom tsev tuagtshaib. qhovno yog leejtwg li teebmeem? yog koj kuv li teebmeem ntag posyog? yuavtau kho hlwb kom meejpem, tham lub ntsiablus twg mas tham thiab kho komtiav Hmoob tiamno siv hosv...
Koj thamtxog dabqhuas, kuv nrog koj tham dabqhuas, koj pauv mus tham keebkwm, kuv nrog koj tham keebkwm, zaumno koj ho mus haistxog lu ua abtsi maj los? ua li no ces yog neeg tsis meejpem losmas. Tshuav ntauyam uas nej cov lhuas tseem yuavtau kawm thiab kho ntxiv thiaj yuavtau los ua Hmoob li thawj coj mog.
Hmmm, yog hais lid koj hais xwb, mas kuv ntshai ntshe tsis haum kuv los sis cov hluas feem coob lid laud. Kuv tsis yog hais yam ub yam no os nawb. Ib, kuv teb koj cov lus. Ob, kuv muab/qhia "pid txwv"=example rau koj xav xwb os nawb.
Koj lo lus nod: cov hluas li nej khavtheeb heev covlaus thiaj tsisxav pubmov rau noj lawm, cov hluas ho xa covlaus mus pov rautom tsev tuagtshaib
Kuv teb qhov yooj yooj yim rau koj kiag, peb cov hluas raws lid kuv xav, ntseeg, thiab paub nrog ntau ntau tus hluas tham, tsis hais tub tsis hais ntxhais -- nej cov laus ib txwm coj, ua, qhia, kho, thiab tho txoj kev rau peb haiv Hmoob los sis peb cov me nyuam txij lid peb xyeev xwm los, nej cov laus, muab hais tiag yeej ua peb haiv Hmoob tsis muaj ib qho pom thawj zoo qauv (example) qhov twg zoo lid niaj hnub nod, cov khoom haum Hmoob thoob USA, tsis tuav npe, es ua cas peb cov hluas yuav ntseeg thiab los koom nej mad? Tsis make sense or is reasonable/logical rau peb leej twg lid laud - cov tub ntxhais tuaj hlob, yug, txawj ntse tiam nod. Koj nkag siab lawm lod.
Tsis tas lid xwb, raws lid niaj hnub nod, cov khavtheej npav yuav los kho, pab, txhawj Hmoob mus rau peb suab yog nej cov laus ntau tshaj peb cov hluas. Hais qhov tseeb tseeb, kuv tsis tau pom thiab paub kuv phaj rov hauv los khavtheej nrog nej cov laus thiab cov tub ntxhais hlob LosTsuas lid nawb. Cov neeg nod, cov khavkhavtheej, ces yog nej cov laus thiab cov tub ntxhais loj hlob LosTsuas nkaus nkaus xwb. Kuv phaj thiab cov hauv ces peb ruam ruam tsis paub nrog nej txeeb tej hawj lwm nod ib txog luaj plaub hau kiag lid. Peb ces tsuas paub ua nej tus mej zeej xwb. Nej coj peb ncaj ces peb ua qhov ncaj. Nej coj peb nkhaus ces peb ua qhov nkhaus.
Ob qho nod, kuv hais tseeb tseeb thiab meej meej rau koj - nej cov laus, cov niam cov txiv, tsis yog lam hais lam cav lam dag leej twg.
Yog nej cov laus, cov coj, cov qub nom qub tswv zoo lid nod xwb, hais meej meej yeej hais tsis haum peb cov hluas lid koj tau hais los lawm vim peb yog Americanized 99.99% hos nej cov laus tseem yog 50% Lao-mentality and only 50% US-mentality at best xwb ces thiaj tsis work whatsoever.
Kuv tsis yog thuam, cem, los liam nej cov laus. Zam txim yog to taud yuav kev. Kuv tsuas hais raws lid kuv pom, paub, thiab ntseeg ntawm cov hluas lub hlwb kev xav thiab nkag siab rau nej cov laus xwb.
Kuv forgot lawm: Peb cov hluas, feem coob, tsis ntshawj ua Hmoob los sis ib tug Thawj Coj twg os nawb. Qhov nod tsis muaj nuj nqi luaj txoj plaub hauv rau peb cov hluas os nawb. Qhov peb ntshawj tshaj plaws ces kom nej txhob muab txoj kev qub nod los ua plaub ua ntug tsis txawj tag lid niaj hnub nod xwb, ces peb haiv Hmoob thiaj yuav haum xeeb vam meej rau peb suab. Ho yog zoo lid niaj hnub nod xwb, koj khav koj yog tus thawj, kuv khav kuv yog tus thawj, koj khav koj lub koom haum, kuv khav kuv lub koom haum, ces peb cov hluas kawg SIT BACK and WATCH nej FIGHT xwb laud.
-
Koj twb yog tus uas xav khaws Hmoob li keebkwm, kuv thiaj xactias koj paub qabhau lawm tiamsis koj nej tseem mosliab heev rau Hmoob kev cojnoj coj-ua. Qhiatseeb rau nej cov hluas nawb, thaum-ub covlaus mas qiadub heev lihos, yog nej tsis themnyiaj nej tsislam tau kawm Hmoob laus tej tswvyim cojmus siv. Nej simxav seb, tejlaus tuag tseem yuavtau mus txhoscaug peb luag mamli tuaj mtias nej, nimno kuv tsisxav lintawd es thiaj qhia kom tej tej homphiaj tiav no tiamsis nej ntshe dhau lawd es covlaus thiab cov hluas thiaj tsis sibhaumxeeb li kuv hais thiab koj hais losmas.
Cia kuv muab ibqho yamntxwv rau neb saib lino, yawg Vampov tustub Plau mus kawm tau Dr. khohniav, muaj ibhnub Vampov ua ibrooj mov noj, nws haistias metub, koj los nojmov thaum 12:00 PM, Plau los koom roojmov thaum 12:00 PM tiamsis roojmov tau noj rauthaum 2:00 PM. Tabsis Dr. Plau twb mus ntaus Golf thaum 1:00 nrog nws cov phoojywg lawm. Nej paub Vampov haislicas rau Dr. Plau? Nws haistias uacas yuavnkim kuv lubzog ualuajli. Dr. Plau hais rau nws txiv haistias, Txiv hnubtwg koj yuavtuaj saib nyab wb noces huxovtooj uantej tso.
Yoglawm, peb nyias yeejmuaj nyias tiam kev uaneej yeej yuav kho tsistau, tiamsis kuv mloog hauv nej cov siabntsws mas twbyog xakhaws thiab txuag tejlaus tej kauvtes kauvtaw cia ua puavpheej puasyog nab?
-
tus tes ntawv kos ntxim li kuv twb yuav paub nas...muaj ib tug neeg kuv paub thiaj sau li kos xwb
-
Tavno es tseem xav li koj xwb, uacas kuv ho paub koj zoo ualuaj mas kwvntxawg. Kuv twbnyob tom koj togtsev xwbnev!
-
singmong,
Kuv teb koj lid nod:
Ib, qhov kuv xav khaws Hmoob keeb kwm etc., tsuas yog los ua ib txoj kev, los sis dab neeg (books hopefully) cia rau cov tub ntxhais yug loj hlob teb chaws nod mus rau lwm lub teb chaws, xws lid Canada, Australia, Germany etc. thaum peb thiab cov laus tsom tiaj teb tseg lawm xwb. Tsis tas lid xwb, nws yog peb Hmoob twg tiag tiag, tsis yog tus Hmab tus Sua sau los sis ua tseg rau peb cov me tub me nyuam. Ib txhia, cov Hmab Sua ua tseg, twb tsis meej pem xws lid Savina - hais tias Hmoob los Middle East los, es peb thiaj sib cav tsis sib haum etc..
Ob, qhov peb thov dag thov zog, koj twb yog ib twg xib laug neeg, kuv tsis nkag siab ua cas koj lam hais tej lus nod. Qhov thov zej zog, tsis yog thiab muab "problem" rau kuv thiab cov hlaus. Peb paub thiab "understand" hais tias yog Hmong culture xwb, peb tsis ntaus nqi dab tsid.
Peb, hais txog Dr. Plau - qhov ntawd yog nws qhov "problem", tsis txhais tau hais tias yog tag nrho peb cov tub ntxhais yug loj hlob teb chaws nod qhov "problem". Yog hais qhov nod, nej cov laus "guilty" tib yam. Tus tshaj los tseem muaj.
Koj xav hais tias kuv tseem yog "mosabliab" xwb, tsis ua lid cas. Tej koj hais, kuv tsis paub ntau ntau los kuv yeej paub me me thiab. Tej qho, tej zaum kuv tseem paub ntau tshaj qhov koj xav. Qhov twg los tsis "matter" rau kuv, vim peb tsuas tuaj sib tham sib qhia xwb, tsis yog yuav tuaj ua ib txoj cai luaj twg etc..
-
Muaj ib lolus haislino haistias, "If you know the truth, that truth will safe you free" Hmoob haistias, Hmoob li ntawv cimmeejtsab tau poob rau zajzeg zajqho lawm. Yogli thiaj muab tus qaib los tua saib obtxhais kotaw seb yovmus qaumteb zoo, los qabteb zoo, lossis hnubtuaj zoo, los hnubpoob zoo, Hmoob yog pab tibneeg uas hwm lubntuj thiab coj txoj kevcai (the ten Commandments) tsistas lino Hmoob tradition and culture are sililar to the old Testments. Qhovno thiaj qhiatau haistias Hmoob zaj "qhuabke" uas haistxog Ntxwjnyoos thiab Yawmsaub thiaj qhiatau rau lub nriajteb tej tubtxawj sojntsuam thiab qhiatau haistias "Hmoob yog leejtwg thiab los qhovtwg los?"
Kuv nug koj haistias, txoj kevcai Hmoob zij pojniam yog Hmoob li, tabsis thaum txhaum tseemfwv txojcai lawm yuavraug kaw li 10 xyoo tiamsis luag haistias, peb tsuas kaw tus tub hluas ntawd 24 teev xwb. vim peb paub tias nej yog pabneeg animism, nej yeej coj txojcai no loslawm ntau txhiab xyoo. Qhovno twbyog luag paub tias Hmoob yog pabneeg twg lawm, tiamsis luag tsis specify thiab identify tias Hmoob yog leejtwg no xwb os metub. Yog nej cov hluas los taug tau Hmoob tusntxhiab ces neej Hmoob nyob ntawm Hmoob tes, ces tus Hmoob yov tsis ploj ntxiv lawm os.
-
singmong,
It is clear this discussion is going no where with all the random segue. You believe whatever you want and I will simply believe whatevere I want, O0
Your argument and examples are quite easy to refute, reprise, and debunk - not just by me, but anyone really - Hmong or not, thus it is pointless and meaningless.
In conclusion: Yog sawv daws, tsis hais tus laus los tus hluas, tus tub los tus ntxhais, tus ruam los tus ntses, tus coj los tus meej zeej, yog ntseeg thiab xav lid nod xwb ces kawg zoo lid niaj hnub nod xwb os nawb. Hmoob ces yeej zoo lid niaj hnub nod xwb os -- tsis pauv tsis ntxid lawm.
-
Koj hais yog lawm, Kuv tuskheej yeej tsistau xavtias yov yuam kom koj ntseeg li kuv ntseeg. Tejno tsuayog muab sau tso nroghuab nrog cuamus xwb, ibyamli peb hais zaj qhuabke xwb, Sivyis cuam nws cov twjneeb los rau nriajteb, leejtwg txojhmoov sawm nws khaws tau cojmus siv thiaj kho tau tibneeg zoo, tiamsis tus uas tsis muaj txojhmoov ces khawtau coj mus ua los tsuaspom xyab liab plujpliv xwb.
Cia saib mus, tomntej Hmoob cov DNA yuavtawm los, leejtwg thiaj yog tus tseem Hmoob. Thiab leejtwg tej ntaubntawv yuav raug qhia rau txhualub university hauv nriajteb no.
-
Interesting theory but our DNA does not support it. The O DNA that we have is traced to have entered Asia through Burma not through the North. This the problem with oral history, people add things to it making it unreliable. It could only be a start. We do have N1c-M46(Tat) which is traced to Lake Baikal area in Siberia but the strand starts from China not Europe or Middle East.
The Christian influence have even distorted our oral tradions. My understanding is that only Christian influenced area has the tale going to the Middle East. Our cousins in Guizhou and Hunan goes only to Shangdong when we became a people. Our DNA says we took the middle route along the Yangtze to Shandong.