PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Funeral Rituals & Customs => Topic started by: floaty on August 26, 2014, 04:11:24 AM
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we had a traditional funeral for a great grandmother. 1 of my nyab is traditional and the 2 others are christians.
if it was not for my traditional nyab, nothing would get done. no food would be cooked and no items, ingredients, supplies would be bought.
my 2 other christian nyab just dranked their lungs out till they were drunk and never lifted a finger to cook. they sat inside and slept on benches where their tight clothed bodies were exposed to all the guest and woke up to play cards with mens.
the worst part, the 2 christian nyab brought drama to the funeral and fought other ppl. all 30 yr olds plus. shame. shame. shameful. embarassing.
what i want to say is, all you christian nyab, don't be like that. you married into a shaman family, learn and respect our ways, as we do, yours. stop the embarassment.
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Hmong funerals are way too demanding and are unreasonable. They need to be changed.
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Hope it'll be different a few weeks from now ???
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That's a shame. I know a lot of Christians who are very helpful during these ceremonies. Just because they believe in God doesn't mean they don't follow many of the old traditions. I know it's not their job, but the least they could do is try to be helpful and respectful. What are they, 16?
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Hmong funerals are way too demanding and are unreasonable. They need to be changed.
Specifically, what are the "demanding and unreasonable" things in a Hmong funeral -- especially if they are required and expected of a "nyab"?
Hmong-Christians ... UGH! (An utter waste of time, text, and energy to comment ... >:D)
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If you are the dil/nyab then your role during the funeral when it is open is mostly just to sit up close to the casket. Someone has to hold the candle. Cry and nev......You don't have no role in cooking, cleaning, preparation, shopping, etc. Those role/duty are already assigned or given notice ahead of time to people. Very few time you may have to assisted with shopping or running some errand that is being asked but rare.
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That's disappointing to read about.
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If you are the dil/nyab then your role during the funeral when it is open is mostly just to sit up close to the casket. Someone has to hold the candle. Cry and nev......You don't have no role in cooking, cleaning, preparation, shopping, etc. Those role/duty are already assigned or given notice ahead of time to people. Very few time you may have to assisted with shopping or running some errand that is being asked but rare.
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SummerBerry, (Yes, most if not ALL you PHers, like you, are quite ignorant about Hmong-anything/everything; thus no shocker you all will make these ignorant "faux-pas" == EPIC FAILS!.)
So this nearsighted claim (observation/opinion) is an Epic FAIL! For the record (fact), directly in accordance to/with Hmong culture, custom, and funeral rites; it is in fact "ntxhais vauv zov qauv", NOT, NOT "tub nyab zov hle". (YES! They (she) are (is) specifically asked/tasked to do this job/role. NOT just anyone can/is suppose to do it, especially NOT a "dil/nyab", nor is she even asked/expected to, though she may congregate there -- most likely unknowingly without etiquette. Period.) "dil/nyab" is in fact "xyom cuab", and arguably the "dil/nyab" is suppose to help with "cooking, cleaning, preparation, shopping etc." more so than not nowadays, if she knows her role, responsibiliti es, and "work requirements/assistance/expectations". That is a dil/nyab "paub tab paub cai". "dil/nyab" most certainly DO NOT/IS NOT suppose to "sit close to the casket", or even be near it period. No further explanation is needed. (Solution: Go learn some formal/accurate "Hmoob Kev Cai Dab Qhuas.", and not just base whatever you think you know, or believe is correct, on ignorance, unfounded, poor, and perfectly wrong observation, or worst yet "I think", "Perhaps", "Maybe", "Looks like", etc. as being the NORM/right course of action. FAIL!)
This nearsighted claim (observation/opinion) is also an Epic FAIL! While true, "cov Niam Ua Mov" has been been tasked/asked to do this specific job/role. The "dil/nyab", if she knows or is a responsible individual, a dil/nayb "paub tab paub kev cai", she will know what her job(s), role(s), and responsibiliti es are. No need to elaborate/explain this to "deaf ears" ... >:D (See proposed "Solution".)
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Being christians has nothing to do with it, but immature and ruam..
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SummerBerry, (Yes, most if not ALL you PHers, like you, are quite ignorant about Hmong-anything/everything; thus no shocker you all will make these ignorant "faux-pas" == EPIC FAILS!.)
So this nearsighted claim (observation/opinion) is an Epic FAIL! For the record (fact), directly in accordance to/with Hmong culture, custom, and funeral rites; it is in fact "ntxhais vauv zov qauv", NOT, NOT "tub nyab zov hle". (YES! They (she) are (is) specifically asked/tasked to do this job/role. NOT just anyone can/is suppose to do it, especially NOT a "dil/nyab", nor is she even asked/expected to, though she may congregate there -- most likely unknowingly without etiquette. Period.) "dil/nyab" is in fact "xyom cuab", and arguably the "dil/nyab" is suppose to help with "cooking, cleaning, preparation, shopping etc." more so than not nowadays, if she knows her role, responsibiliti es, and "work requirements/assistance/expectations". That is a dil/nyab "paub tab paub cai". "dil/nyab" most certainly DO NOT/IS NOT suppose to "sit close to the casket", or even be near it period. No further explanation is needed. (Solution: Go learn some formal/accurate "Hmoob Kev Cai Dab Qhuas.", and not just base whatever you think you know, or believe is correct, on ignorance, unfounded, poor, and perfectly wrong observation, or worst yet "I think", "Perhaps", "Maybe", "Looks like", etc. as being the NORM/right course of action. FAIL!)
This nearsighted claim (observation/opinion) is also an Epic FAIL! While true, "cov Niam Ua Mov" has been been tasked/asked to do this specific job/role. The "dil/nyab", if she knows or is a responsible individual, a dil/nayb "paub tab paub kev cai", she will know what her job(s), role(s), and responsibiliti es are. No need to elaborate/explain this to "deaf ears" ... >:D (See proposed "Solution".)
I went back to read what the OP wrote. I agree with you. I think I was just speaking more of a tub nyab role which is why I meant to said we didn't do much as immediate nyab to in-laws. Back to what the OP point out. I think she was right to vent about it because they should have help with the cooking, cleaning, etc. I would have done the same thing if it was uncle/aunt, grandparent, etc.
I don't come from a 80-90% traditional clan and get to experience funeral so I haven't observed much of the roles or duties or the procedures. My in-laws are like some of the very first traditional funeral I've been part of. I honestly do appreciated how everything is done and how everyone come together. I've attend a few but being more distant it just being there to show respect but it has not come down to helping around a lot because even though the Vang clan of my husband is large they are break down into groups. Our group is the smallest.
My side is 90% Christian and funeral is always prepared and done by the help of the church members. Cov xyom cuab don't do much. Within the last 2-3 yrs I've attend funeral of my side but most of them only died because of old age.
Can you answer this question for me. In Hmong culture....... .if as nyab were suppose to show love for our in-laws. Why is there a procedure on the day of the burial that whoever is the nyab holding the candle crossing over cannot be at the burial site or go there? I always feel that is not right to missed a burial ceremony for that pathetic reason behind it.
I guess with my in-laws gone.... The important thing in the Hmong culture is already going downhill a little. There is always a good and bad.........
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I went back to read what the OP wrote. I agree with you. I think I was just speaking more of a tub nyab role which is why I meant to said we didn't do much as immediate nyab to in-laws. Back to what the OP point out. I think she was right to vent about it because they should have help with the cooking, cleaning, etc. I would have done the same thing if it was uncle/aunt, grandparent, etc.
I don't come from a 80-90% traditional clan and get to experience funeral so I haven't observed much of the roles or duties or the procedures. My in-laws are like some of the very first traditional funeral I've been part of. I honestly do appreciated how everything is done and how everyone come together. I've attend a few but being more distant it just being there to show respect but it has not come down to helping around a lot because even though the Vang clan of my husband is large they are break down into groups. Our group is the smallest.
My side is 90% Christian and funeral is always prepared and done by the help of the church members. Cov xyom cuab don't do much. Within the last 2-3 yrs I've attend funeral of my side but most of them only died because of old age.
Can you answer this question for me. In Hmong culture....... .if as nyab were suppose to show love for our in-laws. Why is there a procedure on the day of the burial that whoever is the nyab holding the candle crossing over cannot be at the burial site or go there? I always feel that is not right to missed a burial ceremony for that pathetic reason behind it.
I guess with my in-laws gone.... The important thing in the Hmong culture is already going downhill a little. There is always a good and bad.........
Short answer, "NO such thing whatsoever in traditional Hmong culture (funeral rites)."
Or you/everyone can go and do this instead: (Solution: Go learn some formal/accurate "Hmoob Kev Cai Dab Qhuas.", and not just base whatever you think you know, or believe is correct, on ignorance, unfounded, poor, and perfectly wrong observation, or worst yet "I think", "Perhaps", "Maybe", "Looks like", etc. as being the NORM/right course of action. FAIL!)
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In all the traditionalfun erals I've attended, burial sites and the meal/thank you/discussion and 13 days after ceremony, I have never seen the candle part? Could it be with the christian side?
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In all the traditionalfun erals I've attended, burial sites and the meal/thank you/discussion and 13 days after ceremony, I have never seen the candle part? Could it be with the christian side?
Ok, let me clear up (educate everyone) about this (these types of) "sideline observation ignorance" -- as I am probably the only PHer who has a clue (sound knowledge) of and about anything Hmong; history, culture, and customs etc..
And in all fairness to SummerBerry, she actually got a minute piece of it "correct/right" (that is in RED). And that is " the nyab holding the candle crossing over cannot be at the burial site or go there " . Beyond that, there is "NO candle", and whatever is meant by "crossing over", that, I have no clue as neither of these are found inherently within a traditional Hmong funeral rite/ritual.
So here is the CORRECT/RIGHT procedure (process) regarding the daughter-in-law's (nyab) role and why she cannot be present at the burial. (The biggest reason why everyone; specifically US-born Hmong kids/adults -- meaning you, all of you PHers -- are completely clueless about this particular procedure (process) is because IT IS NOT, or strictly practiced/observed anymore nowadays as it use to be back in SE Asia. I have only witnessed it TWICE in over several decades of my participation in any/all Hmong funerals I have attended and helped out here in the USA.)
1. On the day of the burial when the casket is being lead (taken) out of the funeral home, a daughter-in-law (nyab) is tasked to lead the way. She is called or referred to as "nyab taws tsaug", or "nyab nqab tsaug" -- NOT a candle. Nowadays, she actually carries a bundle of lit "josing essence sticks" -- NOT a candle. Back in SE Asia, she would carry a "piece of burning timber", or a "bundle of burning twigs". Basically she is carrying "fire to light the way in darkness (death)" to put it simply, or metaphorically, to lead and guide everyone in darkness (death), at the very least outside of the funeral home, or place of funeral rites, and on their way to the burial site (grave).
She is followed by a reed player (txiv qeej) who is playing his reed pipe to aide (entice) the dead (casket) to follow, leading it to its burial (grave). The casket then follows, being carried by loved ones -- the sons of the deceased.
2. Along the way, about half-way or less, on route to the burial (grave), the daughter-in-law (nyab) will toss away (or place) the burning timber (twigs, or josing sticks) in a safe place to let it burn through/out. Immediately she will return home -- to the residence of the family of the deceased, as they will be returning. The reason she is going there and not to the burial site is because she has to make preparations for the returning family (relatives, in-laws, and loved ones). This does not necessarily mean she is going there to prepare a meal for everyone on their return, but it could include this if prior preparations are made. The "MAIN/SOLE REASON" she cannot attend the burial and is going back before everyone is to prepare TWO things for everyone upon their return. ONE, she must get and setup a bucket or pale of water outside so that everyone returning home can wash (cleanse) their hands. TWO, she must also start a fire outside of the house so that everyone returning home can dry their washed hands and must step over the fire before entering the home. BOTH of these are done to "WARD of evil spirits" (or even the deceased) that may have followed anyone from the burial site back.
This, what I have explained, is consistent with and is found inherently (practiced/observed) within a traditional Hmong funereal rite/ritual. (Ua tsaug.)
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ok, the bucket of water and burning torch or burning bundle after returning from funeral, yes i have seen and done. makes sense now.
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Ok, let me clear up (educate everyone) about this (these types of) "sideline observation ignorance" -- as I am probably the only PHer who has a clue (sound knowledge) of and about anything Hmong; history, culture, and customs etc..
And in all fairness to SummerBerry, she actually got a minute piece of it "correct/right" (that is in RED). And that is " the nyab holding the candle crossing over cannot be at the burial site or go there " . Beyond that, there is "NO candle", and whatever is meant by "crossing over", that, I have no clue as neither of these are found inherently within a traditional Hmong funeral rite/ritual.
So here is the CORRECT/RIGHT procedure (process) regarding the daughter-in-law's (nyab) role and why she cannot be present at the burial. (The biggest reason why everyone; specifically US-born Hmong kids/adults -- meaning you, all of you PHers -- are completely clueless about this particular procedure (process) is because IT IS NOT, or strictly practiced/observed anymore nowadays as it use to be back in SE Asia. I have only witnessed it TWICE in over several decades of my participation in any/all Hmong funerals I have attended and helped out here in the USA.)
1. On the day of the burial when the casket is being lead (taken) out of the funeral home, a daughter-in-law (nyab) is tasked to lead the way. She is called or referred to as "nyab taws tsaug", or "nyab nqab tsaug" -- NOT a candle. Nowadays, she actually carries a bundle of lit "josing essence sticks" -- NOT a candle. Back in SE Asia, she would carry a "piece of burning timber", or a "bundle of burning twigs". Basically she is carrying "fire to light the way in darkness (death)" to put it simply, or metaphorically, to lead and guide everyone in darkness (death), at the very least outside of the funeral home, or place of funeral rites, and on their way to the burial site (grave).
She is followed by a reed player (txiv qeej) who is playing his reed pipe to aide (entice) the dead (casket) to follow, leading it to its burial (grave). The casket then follows, being carried by loved ones -- the sons of the deceased.
2. Along the way, about half-way or less, on route to the burial (grave), the daughter-in-law (nyab) will toss away (or place) the burning timber (twigs, or josing sticks) in a safe place to let it burn through/out. Immediately she will return home -- to the residence of the family of the deceased, as they will be returning. The reason she is going there and not to the burial site is because she has to make preparations for the returning family (relatives, in-laws, and loved ones). This does not necessarily mean she is going there to prepare a meal for everyone on their return, but it could include this if prior preparations are made. The "MAIN/SOLE REASON" she cannot attend the burial and is going back before everyone is to prepare TWO things for everyone upon their return. ONE, she must get and setup a bucket or pale of water outside so that everyone returning home can wash (cleanse) their hands. TWO, she must also start a fire outside of the house so that everyone returning home can dry their washed hands and must step over the fire before entering the home. BOTH of these are done to "WARD of evil spirits" (or even the deceased) that may have followed anyone from the burial site back.
This, what I have explained, is consistent with and is found inherently (practiced/observed) within a traditional Hmong funereal rite/ritual. (Ua tsaug.)
Most of your post is correct. However, you presented some false information as well. Also, keep in mind that every Hmong family practices funeral traditions in different ways so you should not assume that the information you presented is true for all Hmongs. In my Xiong clan, the OLDEST nyab brings the CANDLE (which represents the deceased's spirit and is used again during the "xw" and "tso plig") home from the funeral home and is forbidden to attend the burial. The other nyabs are free to attend the burial.
The following statement that you wrote above is FALSE: "The MAIN/SOLE REASON she cannot attend the burial and is going back before everyone is to prepare TWO things for everyone upon their return. ONE, she must get and setup a bucket or pale of water outside so that everyone returning home can wash (cleanse) their hands. TWO, she must also start a fire outside of the house so that everyone returning home can dry their washed hands and must step over the fire before entering the home." While that MAY be the nyab's responsibility, that is NOT her SOLE responsibility . Her main responsibility, in our clan anyway, is to coj plig mus tsev. In fact, I have seen men prepare the water and fire before for the ones returning from the burial.
I also want to add to Summerberry's comment regarding the nyab's responsibility for watching over the body of the deceased and the casket. It IS a responsibility of the nyab - though it may not be her only responsibility - to watch over to ensure that other people with bad intentions do not sneak in metal or any other foreign objects into the casket. Hmongs believe that the body should only be buried with natural materials that will decompose into the earth. Metals or other foreign objects will cause an imbalance in the spirit world and cause harm to the descendants. That is why Hmongs will pull out tooth fillings, metal crowns from the body and remove metal buttons and zippers from the clothing of the body.
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Most of your post is correct. However, you presented some false information as well. Also, keep in mind that every Hmong family practices funeral traditions in different ways so you should not assume that the information you presented is true for all Hmongs. In my Xiong clan, the OLDEST nyab brings the CANDLE (which represents the deceased's spirit and is used again during the "xw" and "tso plig") home from the funeral home and is forbidden to attend the burial. The other nyabs are free to attend the burial.
The following statement that you wrote above is FALSE: "The MAIN/SOLE REASON she cannot attend the burial and is going back before everyone is to prepare TWO things for everyone upon their return. ONE, she must get and setup a bucket or pale of water outside so that everyone returning home can wash (cleanse) their hands. TWO, she must also start a fire outside of the house so that everyone returning home can dry their washed hands and must step over the fire before entering the home." While that MAY be the nyab's responsibility, that is NOT her SOLE responsibility . Her main responsibility, in our clan anyway, is to coj plig mus tsev. In fact, I have seen men prepare the water and fire before for the ones returning from the burial.
I also want to add to Summerberry's comment regarding the nyab's responsibility for watching over the body of the deceased and the casket. It IS a responsibility of the nyab - though it may not be her only responsibility - to watch over to ensure that other people with bad intentions do not sneak in metal or any other foreign objects into the casket. Hmongs believe that the body should only be buried with natural materials that will decompose into the earth. Metals or other foreign objects will cause an imbalance in the spirit world and cause harm to the descendants. That is why Hmongs will pull out tooth fillings, metal crowns from the body and remove metal buttons and zippers from the clothing of the body.
Talk about FALSE, or FAULTY information ... kekeke ... >:D . Thanks for the LAFFS. (The information I have presented is historic/traditional/nowadays Hmong/Mong NORMs, and funeral rites -- over 90% -- practiced globally; that is USA and SEAsia.)
The stuff in RED, of your post/comment, arguably your whole posts/comments, just shows how little you know (have sound knowledge) about Hmong/Mong funeral rites. It definitely IS NOT, " Hmong family practices funeral traditions in different ways ", but more so, "Hmong CLANS -- not families -- may (do) practice funeral rites in different ways." -- if you/anyone wants to make that argument. Truthfully, they are just MINOR nuisances, which is likely due to the family (or clan's) ignorance, lack of knowledge, and/or just changes (adding/deleting) of certain things that are/were originally CONSISTENT in their family, clan, and/or all Hmong/Mong in general, and overall. (I SEE these discrepancies everyday, even today -- in practice, among families/clans of the SAME famiy/clan.) The historically and well-known differencies/nuiances are mainly between Hmong (White) and Mong (Green) funeral rites. But even then, they are just minor differences/nuiances which I do not care to go over.
Your comment, " It IS a responsibility of the nyab (to watch over/safeguard the casket) ...", you are WRONG. You just do not know how WRONG you are *giggles*. Go ask any Kav Xwm, Thawj Xyom Cuab, and Txiv Coj Xai -- not your average Joe -- for FACT versus fiction (hersay, sideline observation) okay? (Hint: I have personally TRAINED in one of these role/job for over 3+years, so you'd think I might know what I am talking about ... *smiles*)
And what I had stated, WAS NOT to compare/contrast your Xiong family to other Xiong family, or Xiong clan to other Xiong clan, or even one Hmong/Mong family/clan to another Hmong/Mong family/clan. Whether you know it or NOT, a single clan (Xiong or whatever) may/do have SEVERAL ways of doing things -- NOT just funeral rites. (Again, the reasons will vary in every which way: from ignorance, to lack of knowledge etc..) That was never the topic, or points (insights, information) of my posts/comments. That said, what I had posted/commented ON and ABOUT is overwhelming the majority of Hmong/Mong practices, and funeral rites, arguably over 90% if not more. Cases like yours, your Xiong family, are exceptions to the rule, and arguably IS/ARE NOT the NORMs -- being consistent with traditional funeral rites/practices.
The stuff in GREEN, of your posts, as you, yourself, have claimed; only applies to your Xiong family -- likely NOT even your whole Xiong clan. So basically, only your Xiong family practices these (newly added/changed) variant(s). It definitely IS NOT the NORM of/within Hmong/Mong funeral rites. Truthfully, I have NEVER heard of, nor see, a "nyab coj plig mus tsev". It makes no sense. How can the "plig/spirit" be taken home, when it hasn't even been buried yet. Traditional Hmong/Mong funeral rites, to my knowledge, and from all of my firsthand experiences, IS NOT done that way period -- meaning NO ONE (tub, anyone, especially a "nyab") is tasked to take (even just verbally ASK) the "plig/spirit" to go home, especially BEFORE the burial, from the funeral home. (What your Xiong family did, or is practicing, is likely a Western adoption -- newly added practice.) The NORM is that once and only after the burial, a "MALE" will be tasked on 3, or more days, separately, either from the burial towards the house, or vice versa, to call the "plig/spirit" to come home. (I am not going to explain/elaborate on this.) Additionally, only on the day -- not anytime before, at the ceremony of "XW/TSO PLIG", it is IN FACT one of the SONS (or MALE) who calls and brings the "plig/spirit" to come back for that ritual. Definitely NOT a "nyab", (or female). Unless NO male is present *giggles*. And I have NEVER seen a "candle" (representing the "plig/spirit") used for that purpose either. (Maybe that, the candle, is unique to/in your Xiong family, but NOT in any/all Hmong/Mong (some Xiongs included) "XW/TSO PLIG" I have witnessed/participated in. The norm, according to tradition/custom, is either a small rock (pebbles), or a hand full of dirt, representing the burial/grave, or "plig/spirit" of the deceased, is preferred/used -- NOT a candle. I see this ALL the time, in every "XW/TSO PLIG" nowadays, I have witnessed/participated in.)
Maybe I am ignorant of ALL family/clan-centric funeral practices/rites, but what I have post/commented of, on, and about is historic/well-known Hmong/Mong funeral rites/practices that has been practiced/observed for decades, hundreds, if not centuries.
SinX,
What is exactly your Xiong family, or specific clan? Be very specific (hopefully you know), and I will pay closer attention (ask in detail) about this Xiong family (clan) the next time I have an opportunity to attend/observe one of their funeral ceremony. (If you do not know precisely what Xiong family, or clan, you belong to, then PM one, or most of your leaders, especially one/those who perform/orchestrate your Xiong family's funeral rites.)
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Nope! I'm done with this conversation. You say so yourself that each clan may practice rites a different way; yet, you laugh (giggles) and elevate yourself on your high horse as if you know everything. Even my 90-year old grandfather who has been a mej koob, txiv Xaiv, who can hu plig, etc. doesn't claim to have the knowledge you do. You're over generalizing. And yes, a nyab's role includes (but is NOT LIMITED to) watching over the body. For the simple reason that you are arguing this point, I will conclude that YOU are a fraud. Lol. Giggles.
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Nope! I'm done with this conversation. You say so yourself that each clan may practice rites a different way; yet, you laugh (giggles) and elevate yourself on your high horse as if you know everything. Even my 90-year old grandfather who has been a mej koob, txiv Xaiv, who can hu plig, etc. doesn't claim to have the knowledge you do. You're over generalizing. And yes, a nyab's role includes (but is NOT LIMITED to) watching over the body. For the simple reason that you are arguing this point, I will conclude that YOU are a fraud. Lol. Giggles.
Awww shucks! And I was really looking forward to learning (add to my knowledgebase) of and about your specific Xiong family's practices (variants) too ... kekeke ... >:D
(Talk about being fraudulent ... *giggles*)
Yup, I did say clan (that is a known fact, easily observable nowadays throughout the USA/SEAsia), and even gave sound reason(s)/rationale for all the little discrepancies/nuances too. But unlike you, I never said "FAMILY" (no such thing historically, traditionally, inherently; except for reasons, I too, have stated) ... lolz. Hmoob/Moob txoj cai thiab lub neej (tsis hais dab qhuas los kev cai), DO NOT have per family leader(s). Hmong/Mong, in fact, has and only have CLAN (or subclan) leader(s) -- ib tug coj los sis tus coj dab qhuas tsaws plaub ntug *smiles*. Hopefully you (everyone) knows what this means, and encompasses. (Hint: He (tus coj/clan leader) is arguably the primary source of any/all of the clan's ritual/rites/affairs (public and private) -- not just funeral rites. True, nowadays, some of these leaders are as ignorant as US-born HA'Mung kids/adults, as the basis (criteria/requirements) of being chosen and appointed for this role/job has changed dramatically/superficially.)
Throughout my life presently, and to date, I have yet to meet (or know of) a 90-year old Hmong father, grandfather, or great grandfather, especially one versed in the traditional Hmong arts you've mentioned ... *giggles*. (Talk about being fraudulent ... *giggles*)
Like I said (don't take my word for it), "Go ask any endowed traditionalist Hmong Kav Xwm, Thawj Xyom Cuab, and Txiv Coj Xai about the role/responsibility inherent to a "nyab"." I can guarantee you, it is not "watching over, safeguarding, or even loathing" around the decease's casket. Only ignorant "nyab(s)" would do this, or foolishly/blindly think it is their role/responsibility, atypical of most/all US HA'Mung "nyab(s)" you see/observe nowadays *giggles*. (Hint: I have already stated this in one of my earlier post/comment, but this role/responsibility is tasked/assigned, and even has to be FORMALLY requested/appointed by a Kav Xwm of/from that said person, aka "Ntxhais Vauv zov qauv (for the record, this/these is/are the SOLE/MAIN person(s) tasked/responsible for this job, of watching over/safeguarding the casket." NOT "tub nyab(s) zov hleb"; which there is NO SUCH thing, and/or is NON-existent in a traditional Hmong funeral rite/ceremony. "Tub nyab(s)" are in fact Tsev Xyom Cuab -- even if they are just cousins; 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or whatever. LoLz! *smiles*)
And yes, arguably I am more knowledgeable about Hmong anything/everything than you, or any other HA'Mung PHer(s) ... kekeke ... >:D
Come on yo, give/tell me who is a family leader(s) of your Xiong family, or the specific Xiong clan you are a part of? I want to know (learn) more about the "candle", or whatever variants your Xiong family practices/observes compared/contrast to the rest of the Hmong/Mong communities nationwide ... :icon_thumright:
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we had a traditional funeral for a great grandmother. 1 of my nyab is traditional and the 2 others are christians.
if it was not for my traditional nyab, nothing would get done. no food would be cooked and no items, ingredients, supplies would be bought.
my 2 other christian nyab just dranked their lungs out till they were drunk and never lifted a finger to cook. they sat inside and slept on benches where their tight clothed bodies were exposed to all the guest and woke up to play cards with mens.
the worst part, the 2 christian nyab brought drama to the funeral and fought other ppl. all 30 yr olds plus. shame. shame. shameful. embarassing.
what i want to say is, all you christian nyab, don't be like that. you married into a shaman family, learn and respect our ways, as we do, yours. stop the embarassment.
doing work is not a religious thing, but it is the personal traits and characteristic s - people who understand the principle of helping each others in a hardship time would do whatever they can to help one another.
only stupid people who think that because of their belief would deter and against their principle...be cause there is no such thing about after life...just make-believe to make human being happy here on earth
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The same can be said about non-Christians nyabs, too. It really depends on the family.
This summer one of our grandmothers passed away. She only has one son. She and the son are christian. And while I get that traditionally his clan should come help him cook and oversee some of the pre-funeral duties, which they did and they, too are mostly Christian, I was appalled by the behavior of her daughters and their families. They are non-Christian. Who the duck tries to go camping during the week of the funeral preparation or gets drunk? As Hmong, we may say they are the side of the daughters, but really? The daughters did not even show up at their brother's house during that week. They also did not show up at the funeral home to help pre-prep. The kwv tij clan is only there to help organize but this part isn't exactly their role. It is the role of the immediate family and that would include daughters and their family as well.
I don't know about you all but if it's my parent, I'm going to my brother's house to help out my nyab. I am not leaving it to the kwv tij to do the cooking alone. That is not the time to act like I married out of the family.
I will also be at the funeral home to do any prep work. Again, not the job of cousins and cousins' wives to decorate, setup chairs, wipe down tables, etc. I mean they can be there to help under my nyabs' instructions but again, this is my parent!