PebHmong Discussion Forum
Sports Category => Outdoors & Recreational Hobbies => Topic started by: Pain on November 16, 2013, 09:08:36 AM
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Provided by minority radio; at 35min into clip has a Hmong hunter named Kong Peng Vue telling his recent story about fearing for his life as he was hunting in south MN involving a run in with MN DNR Game warden: http://minorityradio.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/11-14-13.pa.z.xiong.mp3 (http://minorityradio.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/11-14-13.pa.z.xiong.mp3)
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Pain, you know Kong Pheng Vu very well. He's Maly Vu's brother.
My computer cuts off after he said "Nej muaj dab tsi mam hais thaum ntawd..." about the 7 p.m. meeting at Lao Family.
Where did this man go hunt?
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Pain, you know Kong Pheng Vu very well. He's Maly Vu's brother.
My computer cuts off after he said "Nej muaj dab tsi mam hais thaum ntawd..." about the 7 p.m. meeting at Lao Family.
Where did this man go hunt?
No Reporter, I dont know him at all.
The radio clip tends to stop for some unknown reason while listening to it. You can reload the clip and fast forward to the last spot you were at and it should pick up as long as the clip at the end of its session.
As far as where he was hunting it was around Altura MN near White Water State Park; this was said in the clip.
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The PERFECT storm to unite and REMOVE this cancer (RACIST WARDEN) from our woods! UNITED we STAND...divide d we are sheep! This SOB is nothing but a lap dog!
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Lets not sweep this under the rug and hoping this kind of racist act will go away. I will keep a close eyes on the progress of this case.
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There are always two sides to a story... but just from the sounds of it... Kong Peng Vue had reasons to feel threatened, to feel like his life was in danger... so, I am going to follow this case too... No dnr wardens should be making hunters feel threatened and unsafe... if he succeeds in making hunters feel like that... it means he was not doing his professional job, instead, he was busy abusing his power to taunt and threaten people. Hmong people should stand behind Kong Peng Vue. I don't care if we don't have the evidences yet... if the warden made anybody feel like their lives were in danger... that warden should be investigated and put on leave... I hope Kong Peng Vue sues for damages.
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This SOB's days as a RACIST game warden are numbered!
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No Reporter, I dont know him at all.
The radio clip tends to stop for some unknown reason while listening to it. You can reload the clip and fast forward to the last spot you were at and it should pick up as long as the clip at the end of its session.
As far as where he was hunting it was around Altura MN near White Water State Park; this was said in the clip.
I kind of said you know him well because you might know Maly well. That's all. lol Not that they know us. But we all know Maly.
Anyway, why is Altura an issue like this? How did he find himself to be alone at this place? I've hunted in Altura and Elba and even beyond. I didn't know a warden in the area would not respect the Hmong there.
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There are always two sides to a story... but just from the sounds of it... Kong Peng Vue had reasons to feel threatened, to feel like his life was in danger... so, I am going to follow this case too... No dnr wardens should be making hunters feel threatened and unsafe... if he succeeds in making hunters feel like that... it means he was not doing his professional job, instead, he was busy abusing his power to taunt and threaten people. Hmong people should stand behind Kong Peng Vue. I don't care if we don't have the evidences yet... if the warden made anybody feel like their lives were in danger... that warden should be investigated and put on leave... I hope Kong Peng Vue sues for damages.
Lets not sweep this under the rug and hoping this kind of racist act will go away. I will keep a close eyes on the progress of this case.
O0
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This hmong guy is a coward. I would of kill the racist white warden and shoot his dog too. Self defense and that part where the warden led him place to place...creepy and makes my hair stands. In that situation I would of kill him cause of fear. What a wuss hmong and game warden.
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This hmong guy is a coward. I would of kill the racist white warden and shoot his dog too. Self defense and that part where the warden led him place to place...creepy and makes my hair stands. In that situation I would of kill him cause of fear. What a wuss hmong and game warden.
exactly my thoughts.....!!! I would've call 911 during the first encounter and said I'm being ordered out of my trees stand IN THE DARK by someone who claimed to be a game warden.
Have them track to see who's being dispatch in that area and does a warden have the LEGAL right to approach someone's hunting in progress in the dark like that? Unless of course, he's witnessing or suspected an illegal hunt in progress.
The SOB is LUCKY....he lucked out the hunter didn't put a few rounds at him in the dark.
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that warden needs to go on trial...
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that warden needs to go on trial...
that gun you carried there look mighty fine!!! O0
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that gun you carried there look mighty fine!!! O0
thanks...it's my biological father's lucky rifle he loved...wish i could have gone hunting with him as a child...now he'll never know that i've fired his favorite rifle at rodents...
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that warden needs to go on trial...
O0
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I edited out everything else and just kept the segment with the hunter, and uploaded it, if anyone wants to listen. Scary. Hopefully this becomes public and gets that warden fired. And hopefully Hmong hunters take more precaution when they go hunting... like... don't go alone. Always have walkie talkies. Purchase a small spy cam or an action cam and be sure to record any interaction with anyone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zkgewjr0p95d34/hunter.mp3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zkgewjr0p95d34/hunter.mp3)
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I edited out everything else and just kept the segment with the hunter, and uploaded it, if anyone wants to listen. Scary. Hopefully this becomes public and gets that warden fired. And hopefully Hmong hunters take more precaution when they go hunting... like... don't go alone. Always have walkie talkies. Purchase a small spy cam or an action cam and be sure to record any interaction with anyone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zkgewjr0p95d34/hunter.mp3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zkgewjr0p95d34/hunter.mp3)
Stuff like this is the reason why I stopped hunting.
Addison Lee, where are you at? I would love to hear your thoughts on this since you have ties to the DNR.
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I edited out everything else and just kept the segment with the hunter, and uploaded it, if anyone wants to listen. Scary. Hopefully this becomes public and gets that warden fired. And hopefully Hmong hunters take more precaution when they go hunting... like... don't go alone. Always have walkie talkies. Purchase a small spy cam or an action cam and be sure to record any interaction with anyone.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zkgewjr0p95d34/hunter.mp3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/1zkgewjr0p95d34/hunter.mp3)
I carry that with me all the time in the woods.
Thanks for editing this piece, Redemption. I really appreciate it.
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If I was in the woods in a permitted hunting area, I would never let my gun off of my hands. Nor will I unload it for any reason.
I went squirrel hunting at Forestville Mystery Cave State Park in southern MN last year. Part of this state park allowed hunting.
I came out from the woods in the late afternoon. As I was near the parking lot, a park ranger or some official with an emblem on his left chest stopped me at the parking lot. He questioned me. He said people have complained about some shooting at the state park when they were riding their horses. I told him I heard the horses and that when those people were riding the horses, I was way over the other side of the hill, over a stream where hunting was permitted. He then said people didn't want guns to be carried around in this area. I had my guns already in their covers. Both were in my hands. I told him that I have always observed safety and that I especially didn't want to let kids see guns being carried around the area and that I actually hid the guns where there was a bunch of children coming through the road just before that.
The guy then said people felt no one should be hunting there. I said, "You are going to have to talk to DNR and see if they'll remove the signs over there."
The signs were "State Wildlife Management Area", subtitled "Open to Public Hunting."
The guy seemed to soften up.
I asked what his position was. "A park ranger?" I asked.
He didn't say anything more, although I saw his batch--the emblem--shining in the distance.
He then asked for my name. I gladly gave it to him. He said if there was any questioning, he'd get in touch with me. I gave him my phone number, too. I asked if he wanted my ID, too, but he said it wasn't necessary.
I have been waiting all this whole year and there's been no call from anyone on this.
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I've joined a couple online bow hunting forums and let me tell you, when race issues come up, it feels like you are in a Klan rally. Of course those people does not know I'm Hmong. The point is that yes there are still a lot of white people out there with a bias, distorted view of us Hmong people. They will intimidate, threaten you to leave the hunting area. The bottom line is we must come out alive to tell our story...as hunters we all have encountered some form of intimidation by white hunters...
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Stuff like this is the reason why I stopped hunting.
Addison Lee, where are you at? I would love to hear your thoughts on this since you have ties to the DNR.
We've forwarded this incident to Ka Yeng Vue, the WI DNR Diversity Coordinator, and he actually brought it straight up to the Chief Warden Randy Stark personally. We'll keep you guys updated on the situation. Gathering all the facts is the first step. O0
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^^ You go dude! Things like this should not be happening especially since we've all learned the lessons from Chai Vang.
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I've joined a couple online bow hunting forums and let me tell you, when race issues come up, it feels like you are in a Klan rally. Of course those people does not know I'm Hmong. The point is that yes there are still a lot of white people out there with a bias, distorted view of us Hmong people. They will intimidate, threaten you to leave the hunting area. The bottom line is we must come out alive to tell our story...as hunters we all have encountered some form of intimidation by white hunters...
These clowns that taunt and threaten another hunter don't realized that by acting like APES, they are walking in a thin line!!! They also don't realized that they are putting themselves and their loved ones in a danger position.
Here's the typical scenario.....w hen you have a bunch of rednecks in the woods together, they think they're untouchable! These neanderthals think they are made of stern metal??? SERIOUSLY? Well, chai vang proved otherwise that taunting and vomit racial names in the woods can and will get you KILL!!!
As I've always stresses....do n't ever take your eyes off of an aggressive ape in the woods no matter who he is, an official or a hunter....and when shit hits the fan...make sure you walk out alive to tell your side of the story.
A responsible hunter always respect other hunters in the woods. As a hunter myself...I hunt for the enjoyment of the sport and to pass time. I don't go into the woods looking for TROUBLE or commit illegal hunt OR claim such and such area of public land is "MINE SPOT". I know my hunting ground like the back of my hands....and I respect other hunters as I would want them to treat me the same. If I meet or see another hunter...a "HI" is always delivered.
Now, I don't trust any white hunters i come across in the woods...(and I don't expect them to trust me either) especially the ones that think they own the forest...or the ones that open their mouth like I'm deaf or the ones that give you the eyes that can kill.
I'm armed and ready at all time should my life is in danger. The worst case scenario is that if i'm going to died, i want to make sure he doesn't live to taunt another minority again. I don't care what complexion color his skin is or who he thinks he is. We can either all get along and enjoy the sports/outdoors together or we can make it UGLY for everyone. The decision is for both non-white and white hunters alike to consider.
Always remember...no one is made of metal!
PEACE OUT!
Ua tsaug!
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Incidences like this happen because there are a few Hmong poachers that give all of us Hmong hunters a bad name. Last year a few buddies and I went to bow hunt at White Water. Right before dark, a couple of us came down from our trees and started to walk back to the car. As we were getting close to the parking area it got dark and we noticed a car driving into the parking area and just parked there. As we got to the parking, we saw that it was a Toyota truck. It just parked there with no one getting out of the truck. As we were waiting for our other hunting buddies, we wondered why someone would just drive into the parking and just park there. As we waited for a good 30 minutes for our other hunting buddies, 2 Hmong guys got out of the car. They asked whether we shot anything, and we told them no. We asked them, what they were doing here. Their response was, "peb tuaj saib chaw tua moslwj." They then just walked into the woods. WTH!?
Who in their right mind would go seek out places to hunt deer in the dark? These guys were definitely poachers. They either 1) poached a deer and are going back to retrieve it; or 2) already have their stands and weapons in the woods and are going to poach. There are trophy bucks at White Water but they usually come out at night.
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We've forwarded this incident to Ka Yeng Vue, the WI DNR Diversity Coordinator, and he actually brought it straight up to the Chief Warden Randy Stark personally. We'll keep you guys updated on the situation. Gathering all the facts is the first step. O0
Good. Stark is a cool guy. I met him here with his other colleagues and that Hmong guy from LaCrosse.
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Incidences like this happen because there are a few Hmong poachers that give all of us Hmong hunters a bad name. Last year a few buddies and I went to bow hunt at White Water. Right before dark, a couple of us came down from our trees and started to walk back to the car. As we were getting close to the parking area it got dark and we noticed a car driving into the parking area and just parked there. As we got to the parking, we saw that it was a Toyota truck. It just parked there with no one getting out of the truck. As we were waiting for our other hunting buddies, we wondered why someone would just drive into the parking and just park there. As we waited for a good 30 minutes for our other hunting buddies, 2 Hmong guys got out of the car. They asked whether we shot anything, and we told them no. We asked them, what they were doing here. Their response was, "peb tuaj saib chaw tua moslwj." They then just walked into the woods. WTH!?
Who in their right mind would go seek out places to hunt deer in the dark? These guys were definitely poachers. They either 1) poached a deer and are going back to retrieve it; or 2) already have their stands and weapons in the woods and are going to poach. There are trophy bucks at White Water but they usually come out at night.
On November 9th, I went to hunt at the northern rifle zone. All day, I didn't see anything. I drove around and noticed that other hunters, too, were coming out of the woods with no buck or doe to be dragged. Everyone was empty-handed.
Then I drove by a private land and saw two White hunters, one on a pickup and the other just on the side of the woods still dressing a small fawn buck. They weren't owners of that land. I had driven there before, and I have seen the local owner's truck before.
The pickup driver waived at me and I waived at him but he turned quickly to the side of the road. Their truck had blocked off most of the view on the downed fawn buck and the other hunter.
You think they were poaching?
I didn't say or do anything. I just drove by.
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Can we all refrain from using "Chai Vang" in reference to any retaliation? That incident is a dark time for every hunter, white, hmong, black, etc. And it's set every hunter (no matter the color) back 50 yrs of progress. It paints a horrible image to non-hunters and anti-hunters everywhere. (which outnumber us 10:1) If we want to ever gain any kind of respect from the public, then let's work towards a common goal to promote peace and harmony in the woods. There are hundreds of thousands of acres of public hunting ground in this state and the next. We all need to be able to share in the beauty that is our outdoors, not fight over a small area.
To the non hunters and anti-hunters, the only negative color they see is camo. And don't think for a second that they're not waiting for any reason to pull back funding for public land access or hundreds of other programs out there for us hunters in these states. All of that is paid for by tax dollars, and unfortunately we only represent a small percentage of tax payers in our states. If we can't even manage ourselves in the woods, imagine the 10 other people are waiting to vote against public funding for our hunting access and programs? Don't give them a reason to take away our traditions and heritage. We have it too good here, but all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the entire thing.
I get it, we're all angry and may have had our own run-ins with people with the wrong mentality. But be the bigger person and just move on. Threats of violence in retaliation is going to do nothing but increase the negativity in people's minds, theirs and ours. Fear of the unknown is a dangerous thing, and I've always said that white hunters are more afraid of us than we are of them because they know nothing about us our or behaviors (aside from what they see in the news, i.e. Chai Vang). So are you going to reinforce their prejudice against you? Or will you take a new step that will totally blind side them, like actually talking to them as one hunter to another, as an actual person who appreciates the outdoors just like they do? And promote conservation and education among our next generation of hunters? You'll be amazed at how friendly people become when you approach them in a friendly way and change their point of view of Hmong hunters. Some will even invite you to hunt with them on their own private lands!
But if we don't something now, then our children will carry our faults and shortcomings into the woods on their future hunts. They will face the same prejudices we did not properly address or solve. And worst of all, they will carry the same mentality we have against white hunters. It needs to start with everyone in here, right now. Stop the hate, stop the mentality of violence in retalitation, stop the ignorance. Then we can start approaching it with an open mind, to educate and inform people. And eventually we'll gain acceptance. It may seem like an impossible thing right now, but I've witnessed lots of progress already with what little HASC has been able to accomplish thus far. And we're only just beginning to breakthrough with awareness and conservation. Together I think know that we can all make it happen. But it starts within each and every person in here.
I wish everyone the best for the rest of the season and hope that no one has any other negative run-ins with folks. We've heard way too many negative stories already this year, when will we hear good news about Hmong hunters? I still pray for that day every day. 8)
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R, you never know. They could be poachers or friends of the landowner?
They say that knowledge is power. If you know the hunting laws and regulations, DNR officers, park rangers and regular hunters will be more afraid of you. Some officers and rangers are nice, but their job is to enforce the hunting regulations. Some will try to shake you down to see if you break under pressure or confess to a violation. If you stand your ground and respond to them in a respectful manner and knowledgeable about the regulation, they will leave you alone. Reporter's story above is a prime example on how to respond to authority figure when being approached during a hunt.
A lot of the time, Hmong hunters feel that they are powerless in the forest. They are afraid of authority figure and think that they are targeting them. As long as you are on public (taxpayer) land and are abiding by hunting regulations, you have nothing to fear.
I was thinking that we need to educate our Hmong hunters of our rights. Also, we need to educate them on how to respond to authority figures when being confronted by them.
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Plastering all over facebook now! Speak up or forever hold you peace if you have ever had a run with this officer. Heck I urge to write a letter of concern anyhow even if you never had a run in with this officer.
Greeting: In moving forward I wish for anyone of you hunters who have personally encountered or know someone who have a face-2-face encounter with Officer Heyn to please share your story so that it can be sent along with Kong Pheng Vu. The written testimonies can be sent to the appropriate DNR administrative personnel (s) in assisting them to conduct a more thorough investigation on Officer Heyn's actions and the matter at hand. Please consider completing your written testimonies and sent to me by the end of this week's, 11.22.2013. Ua tsaug, [email protected]; 651.235.9328
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1452445_10201110282904848_1223934825_n.jpg)
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First rules when being approached by a DNR Warden?
- Point your firearm in a safe direction
- Do NOT unload right away, as that makes you look suspicious
- Then obey and do as he says when he feels the situation is under control and safe. If he then instructs you to unload your firearm, then do as he says. But normally they only request this if they feel the encounter is safer with an unloaded firearm by the hunter (like if they witnessed him being trigger happy or he seems agitated or something).
Wardens are trained to respond to almost every situation, but for the most part they just want to make it safe for everyone including themselves. You do not have to put your firearm away, and you have a right to ask for his identification and he is required to show it to you upon request (if he didn't already show it you first when approaching you). You also have a right to confirm his identity by calling the DNR call center before agreeing to do anything with him. If he's genuine, he'll even give you his phone to call and confirm. There are rare reports of people pretending to be wardens, so they take that very seriously as well.
And this is coming straight from the numerous wardens we've worked with over the years. They want YOU to feel safe just as THEY want to feel safe around you too. They understand that everyone's got a firearm out there, so if the encounter is safe then it's all the better. Every situation is handled according to the situation, so if you are causing a huge scene and making in unsafe for everyone around you, then they're going to treat you accordingly. But if you just made a simple mistake, they'll most likely warn you first and instruct you on the proper procedures and laws. Your treatment depends on how well you behave around them. Don't give them a reason to detain you or suspect anything else. Most of the time, the only reason they're out there is because someone called and complained so they have to go out and investigate. If you know you didn't do anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. But if you're guilty of poaching or shooting after hours or something, then don't get upset when they come out looking for you and drag you back to their truck.
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finest,
well said and well balanced post. I'm wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm a voice of reason and all for the respect of all hunters...but at the same time, I will NOT back down and tug my tail behind my legs and be a victim or stereotypes for anyone.
My philosophy of hunting is this.....I do not intend to walk into the woods with a mentality that I'm ASIAN, I have more rights than white/black/mex hunters. The problem here is that it's totally the opposite with SOME white hunters. You see, these "SOME" white hunters think like this (speaking from past encounters), though they know legally the laws, but subconsciously, they have this mentality that the woods belongs to them. So if they see you in the woods....guess what?
They normally don't approach you with a civilized attitude....bu t they will approach you with stereotypes like..."you asian kill everything.... you don't respect other hunters...you asian...blah blah...blah...".
If i were to drop down to thier LEVEL of stupidity and list all the BAD things the white people done to this country's resources, they'll all be shamed!! You see....this is where the problem arise. These people are not looking to "SHARE" the woods like we all have been preaching. Do you see why as much as we try to work iron things out....it will NEVER going to get through these neanderthals' brains. It's who they are...they're an aggressive specie since time immemorial.
Of course, i've met some of the most KIND and respectful white hunters out there anyone could ask for. They are the FAMILY men and men of integrity....m en that understand the CONCEPT OF sharing the resources we all paid to enjoy. Men that think with their brain before they speak....men i could invite to dinner at my house and meet my family. These type of men are a rarity.
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R, you never know. They could be poachers or friends of the landowner?
They say that knowledge is power. If you know the hunting laws and regulations, DNR officers, park rangers and regular hunters will be more afraid of you. Some officers and rangers are nice, but their job is to enforce the hunting regulations. Some will try to shake you down to see if you break under pressure or confess to a violation. If you stand your ground and respond to them in a respectful manner and knowledgeable about the regulation, they will leave you alone. Reporter's story above is a prime example on how to respond to authority figure when being approached during a hunt.
A lot of the time, Hmong hunters feel that they are powerless in the forest. They are afraid of authority figure and think that they are targeting them. As long as you are on public (taxpayer) land and are abiding by hunting regulations, you have nothing to fear.
I was thinking that we need to educate our Hmong hunters of our rights. Also, we need to educate them on how to respond to authority figures when being confronted by them.
REN...MOST profound thoughts on your post! I believe that by educating our people some potential questions the warden will ask and provide the correct responses would make the encounter less intimidating. If you have not committed anything illegal act....you have NOTHING to worry about.
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R, you never know. They could be poachers or friends of the landowner?
They say that knowledge is power. If you know the hunting laws and regulations, DNR officers, park rangers and regular hunters will be more afraid of you. Some officers and rangers are nice, but their job is to enforce the hunting regulations. Some will try to shake you down to see if you break under pressure or confess to a violation. If you stand your ground and respond to them in a respectful manner and knowledgeable about the regulation, they will leave you alone. Reporter's story above is a prime example on how to respond to authority figure when being approached during a hunt.
A lot of the time, Hmong hunters feel that they are powerless in the forest. They are afraid of authority figure and think that they are targeting them. As long as you are on public (taxpayer) land and are abiding by hunting regulations, you have nothing to fear.
I was thinking that we need to educate our Hmong hunters of our rights. Also, we need to educate them on how to respond to authority figures when being confronted by them.
Thanks, Ren! O0 O0 O0
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It all depends on what kind of white hunter you've encountered. If they come at you with a mean, threatening attitude, you can't be a humble, meek, sorrowful fellow. You got to stand your ground and let them know you can't be messed with. Never, ever turn your back to them or take your eyes off them. Now, if the white hunter approach you in a "friendly" way, of course respond in kind. Seems most of you have never encountered a threatening white hunter before, therefore your experience will be different.
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Incidences like this happen because there are a few Hmong poachers that give all of us Hmong hunters a bad name. Last year a few buddies and I went to bow hunt at White Water. Right before dark, a couple of us came down from our trees and started to walk back to the car. As we were getting close to the parking area it got dark and we noticed a car driving into the parking area and just parked there. As we got to the parking, we saw that it was a Toyota truck. It just parked there with no one getting out of the truck. As we were waiting for our other hunting buddies, we wondered why someone would just drive into the parking and just park there. As we waited for a good 30 minutes for our other hunting buddies, 2 Hmong guys got out of the car. They asked whether we shot anything, and we told them no. We asked them, what they were doing here. Their response was, "peb tuaj saib chaw tua moslwj." They then just walked into the woods. WTH!?
Who in their right mind would go seek out places to hunt deer in the dark? These guys were definitely poachers. They either 1) poached a deer and are going back to retrieve it; or 2) already have their stands and weapons in the woods and are going to poach. There are trophy bucks at White Water but they usually come out at night.
Poaching is wrong...it don't matter who white/black/asian/mex !! IT'S WRONG and should be prosecuted by the law. However, the problem is not about poaching...the problem is some white hunters think they have MORE rights than REN, REPORTER, JOOT, PHU, FINEST, etc...to walk the woods. And this is where the root problem is. When they have this mindset in their brain...it's really hard to come to an understanding and sharing of the woods like civilized human!
Have anyone ever KNOW of a case where a hmong hunter goes into the woods and try to HARASS a white hunter out of his hunting spot? Name me one case? Can we say the same about white hunters harassing hmong hunters?
When will we stand our ground? When do we say enough is enough? When do we FIGHT (legally) back? The people who work at the DNR or the politicians we elected are people who work for all of us. They may not like us, but they MUST respect their position of authority and treat all hunters/people the same.
A warden like JOEL should NEVER EVER taunt or call anyone race like he did Peng's. This is NOT what he was sworn and paid to do. I want to see this SOB FIRED. He doesn't serve the interest of the hunters and don't deserve to uphold the laws. SICK!
ua tsaug.
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Can we all refrain from using "Chai Vang" in reference to any retaliation? That incident is a dark time for every hunter, white, hmong, black, etc. And it's set every hunter (no matter the color) back 50 yrs of progress. It paints a horrible image to non-hunters and anti-hunters everywhere. (which outnumber us 10:1) If we want to ever gain any kind of respect from the public, then let's work towards a common goal to promote peace and harmony in the woods. There are hundreds of thousands of acres of public hunting ground in this state and the next. We all need to be able to share in the beauty that is our outdoors, not fight over a small area.
To the non hunters and anti-hunters, the only negative color they see is camo. And don't think for a second that they're not waiting for any reason to pull back funding for public land access or hundreds of other programs out there for us hunters in these states. All of that is paid for by tax dollars, and unfortunately we only represent a small percentage of tax payers in our states. If we can't even manage ourselves in the woods, imagine the 10 other people are waiting to vote against public funding for our hunting access and programs? Don't give them a reason to take away our traditions and heritage. We have it too good here, but all it takes is one bad apple to spoil the entire thing.
I get it, we're all angry and may have had our own run-ins with people with the wrong mentality. But be the bigger person and just move on. Threats of violence in retaliation is going to do nothing but increase the negativity in people's minds, theirs and ours. Fear of the unknown is a dangerous thing, and I've always said that white hunters are more afraid of us than we are of them because they know nothing about us our or behaviors (aside from what they see in the news, i.e. Chai Vang). So are you going to reinforce their prejudice against you? Or will you take a new step that will totally blind side them, like actually talking to them as one hunter to another, as an actual person who appreciates the outdoors just like they do? And promote conservation and education among our next generation of hunters? You'll be amazed at how friendly people become when you approach them in a friendly way and change their point of view of Hmong hunters. Some will even invite you to hunt with them on their own private lands!
But if we don't something now, then our children will carry our faults and shortcomings into the woods on their future hunts. They will face the same prejudices we did not properly address or solve. And worst of all, they will carry the same mentality we have against white hunters. It needs to start with everyone in here, right now. Stop the hate, stop the mentality of violence in retalitation, stop the ignorance. Then we can start approaching it with an open mind, to educate and inform people. And eventually we'll gain acceptance. It may seem like an impossible thing right now, but I've witnessed lots of progress already with what little HASC has been able to accomplish thus far. And we're only just beginning to breakthrough with awareness and conservation. Together I think know that we can all make it happen. But it starts within each and every person in here.
I wish everyone the best for the rest of the season and hope that no one has any other negative run-ins with folks. We've heard way too many negative stories already this year, when will we hear good news about Hmong hunters? I still pray for that day every day. 8)
+1. Finest probably didn't intend for this... but I vote Finest for President. ;D But seriously, I really like your approach, Finest. A meeting of the minds, the road to beginning to understand and respect each other cannot be achieved through retaliation and/or more aggression. A lot of us need to change our ways, find better approaches to deal with difficult situations. With some White/non-Hmong folks though, there is no convincing them because their minds are set on their ways... their hate is so thick toward us. But if we can change his neighbors' mind about us, his neighbor would probably have more influence and be able to convince him that not all Hmong people are bad. And our own reflection of peace and calm, our offering of friendship and respect will help to soften up the hearts of haters and racists. With that said, I agree that Hmong hunters need to be educated on how to correctly defuse and de-escalate difficult run-ins with wardens and non-Hmong hunters. Knowing the laws and your rights are important. Staying calm, polite, and respectful are other ways of staying safe with aggressive persons, and so on...
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R, you never know. They could be poachers or friends of the landowner?
They say that knowledge is power. If you know the hunting laws and regulations, DNR officers, park rangers and regular hunters will be more afraid of you. Some officers and rangers are nice, but their job is to enforce the hunting regulations. Some will try to shake you down to see if you break under pressure or confess to a violation. If you stand your ground and respond to them in a respectful manner and knowledgeable about the regulation, they will leave you alone. Reporter's story above is a prime example on how to respond to authority figure when being approached during a hunt.
A lot of the time, Hmong hunters feel that they are powerless in the forest. They are afraid of authority figure and think that they are targeting them. As long as you are on public (taxpayer) land and are abiding by hunting regulations, you have nothing to fear.
I was thinking that we need to educate our Hmong hunters of our rights. Also, we need to educate them on how to respond to authority figures when being confronted by them.
+1
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It all depends on what kind of white hunter you've encountered. If they come at you with a mean, threatening attitude, you can't be a humble, meek, sorrowful fellow. You got to stand your ground and let them know you can't be messed with. Never, ever turn your back to them or take your eyes off them. Now, if the white hunter approach you in a "friendly" way, of course respond in kind. Seems most of you have never encountered a threatening white hunter before, therefore your experience will be different.
I've encountered BOTH type of white hunters. The one that approaches you with a friendly attitude is rare but they do exist. These are men that see the world 360 degree. Then there are those whose never seen what the world look beyond their little backwater village/town/door steps...these people will think you're invading their little "turf". In other word....xenoph obia comes to mind!
They're the ones that still stuck in the 1800's thinking they are the only men that walk the earth with two leg. They don't know the history of this country nor know their own ancestor's history or where they crawled from. HECK, they don't even know what race they came from anymore....hen ce "whites" let alone know that Asian also love to hunt too and we also PAY TAXES to keep America abundant.
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First rules when being approached by a DNR Warden?
- Point your firearm in a safe direction
- Do NOT unload right away, as that makes you look suspicious
- Then obey and do as he says when he feels the situation is under control and safe. If he then instructs you to unload your firearm, then do as he says. But normally they only request this if they feel the encounter is safer with an unloaded firearm by the hunter (like if they witnessed him being trigger happy or he seems agitated or something).
Wardens are trained to respond to almost every situation, but for the most part they just want to make it safe for everyone including themselves. You do not have to put your firearm away, and you have a right to ask for his identification and he is required to show it to you upon request (if he didn't already show it you first when approaching you). You also have a right to confirm his identity by calling the DNR call center before agreeing to do anything with him. If he's genuine, he'll even give you his phone to call and confirm. There are rare reports of people pretending to be wardens, so they take that very seriously as well.
And this is coming straight from the numerous wardens we've worked with over the years. They want YOU to feel safe just as THEY want to feel safe around you too. They understand that everyone's got a firearm out there, so if the encounter is safe then it's all the better. Every situation is handled according to the situation, so if you are causing a huge scene and making in unsafe for everyone around you, then they're going to treat you accordingly. But if you just made a simple mistake, they'll most likely warn you first and instruct you on the proper procedures and laws. Your treatment depends on how well you behave around them. Don't give them a reason to detain you or suspect anything else. Most of the time, the only reason they're out there is because someone called and complained so they have to go out and investigate. If you know you didn't do anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. But if you're guilty of poaching or shooting after hours or something, then don't get upset when they come out looking for you and drag you back to their truck.
+1
My only concern is... you have to unload your firearm when they ask you to? I would only unload after calling to confirm the warden's identity and verifying their identification .
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+1. Finest probably didn't intend for this... but I vote Finest for President. ;D But seriously, I really like your approach, Finest. A meeting of the minds, the road to beginning to understand and respect each other cannot be achieved through retaliation and/or more aggression. A lot of us need to change our ways, find better approaches to deal with difficult situations. With some White/non-Hmong folks though, there is no convincing them because their minds are set on their ways... their hate is so thick toward us. But if we can change his neighbors' mind about us, his neighbor would probably have more influence and be able to convince him that not all Hmong people are bad. And our own reflection of peace and calm, our offering of friendship and respect will help to soften up the hearts of haters and racists. With that said, I agree that Hmong hunters need to be educated on how to correctly defuse and de-escalate difficult run-ins with wardens and non-Hmong hunters. Knowing the laws and your rights are important. Staying calm, polite, and respectful are other ways of staying safe with aggressive persons, and so on...
The majority of the time, it will work for people who have at least a 3rd grade education. However, regardless of how diplomatic/well intended/well mannered/well spoken we are...there will always be "neanderthals" amongst us! These neanderthals don't like YOU they will not like YOU...so if and when you meet a neanderthal in the woods....just be prepared in case he likes to TEST the water!
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It all depends on what kind of white hunter you've encountered. If they come at you with a mean, threatening attitude, you can't be a humble, meek, sorrowful fellow. You got to stand your ground and let them know you can't be messed with. Never, ever turn your back to them or take your eyes off them. Now, if the white hunter approach you in a "friendly" way, of course respond in kind. Seems most of you have never encountered a threatening white hunter before, therefore your experience will be different.
I agree with this too. You should be able to assess every situation you encounter. Don't assume that you meet one nice guy, the next guy is going to be nice too. Know your surroundings, be aware at all times, know your gut instincts, and trust your feelings about other people. If they come at you with a mean look... you need to let them know you mean business too... but first try to remain calm and descalate their anger before going head-on with them if they haven't yet given you reason to use your muscles or rifle...
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Plastering all over facebook now! Speak up or forever hold you peace if you have ever had a run with this officer. Heck I urge to write a letter of concern anyhow even if you never had a run in with this officer.
(https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1452445_10201110282904848_1223934825_n.jpg)
link to facebook discussion? ua tsaug
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+1
My only concern is... you have to unload your firearm when they ask you to? I would only unload after calling to confirm the warden's identity and verifying their identification .
If it comes to a point where the warden asks you to unload, then it's probably pretty serious and he's only looking to keep the situation safe for everyone. For the most part they won't make you unload if you keep your firearm pointed away from them. You still have the right to confirm their identity at any time, so if you feel you need to do it first before unloading then communicate that with him.
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If it comes to a point where the warden asks you to unload, then it's probably pretty serious and he's only looking to keep the situation safe for everyone. For the most part they won't make you unload if you keep your firearm pointed away from them. You still have the right to confirm their identity at any time, so if you feel you need to do it first before unloading then communicate that with him.
O0
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link to facebook discussion? ua tsaug
i second on this...need link...
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i assume this would be the email to send complaints to DNR practices also or to even find out how to file a good complaint?...
DNR Information Center
Email the DNR Information Center [email protected] for the following information:
General information
Maps, brochures, or other publications
Any other comments or questions on DNR policies or practices
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exactly my thoughts.....!!! I would've call 911 during the first encounter and said I'm being ordered out of my trees stand IN THE DARK by someone who claimed to be a game warden.
Have them track to see who's being dispatch in that area and does a warden have the LEGAL right to approach someone's hunting in progress in the dark like that? Unless of course, he's witnessing or suspected an illegal hunt in progress.
The SOB is LUCKY....he lucked out the hunter didn't put a few rounds at him in the dark.
are you even allowed to hunt in the dark??
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are you even allowed to hunt in the dark??
No, at least not for deer hunting.
But you can still be in the woods after sundown, if you don't want to spook the deer where they bed walking out of the woods, or before sun up to get to your treestand before the deer start moving. O0
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are you even allowed to hunt in the dark??
like Finest stated.... O0
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This is indeed a scary situation for anyone, Hmong or not. There are many red flags here on both sides, one more than the other. Thankfully he was able to survive this to tell the world. We as a community come united to stand for what is right in situations like this, lets make as much noise as we can to make sure the proper actions are taken to let others know, we the Hmong community will not stand by and watch this happen.
Here in WI, we've (HASC) reported the incident to the highest ranking person in the WI-DNR, the chief warden. He, along with other friends of HASC, include othe organizations are aware of the situation and are keeping a close eye on the outcome. This will not only effect MN and WI but other states with a strong Hmong hunting heritage. Justice will prevail in the end.
To everyone going out this weekend for the Wisconsin gun deer opener. Have a great and safe hunt. Good luck.
Feel free to share your pictures and stories with HASC on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HmongAmericanSportsmenClub (https://www.facebook.com/HmongAmericanSportsmenClub)
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Boua Xiong works for Kare 11 news here in MN, and this is a comment she did on my cousin's facebook:
Boua Xiong: "In two days I have received several emails about a man named Kong Pheng Vue and his encounter with DNR conservation officer Joel Heyn. Here's what I know:
I spoke with Ken Soring, director of the DNR's enforcement division. He tells me Heyn was investigating a citizen complaint about an illegal deer stand. Heyn made an audio recording of the incident. The DNR has reviewed the audio and Soring says the audio shows Heyn acted appropriately and there was no use of force. Vue was cited for the illegal deer stand. To date the DNR has not received a complaint from Vue. My attempts to reach Vue from sources who have contacted me have been unsuccessful."
I guess it's obvious that we shouldn't jump to conclusions, but I'm glad a situation like this has gotten out to the public, as this will lead to more discussions for hunter safety.
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Boua Xiong works for Kare 11 news here in MN, and this is a comment she did on my cousin's facebook:
Boua Xiong: "In two days I have received several emails about a man named Kong Pheng Vue and his encounter with DNR conservation officer Joel Heyn. Here's what I know:
I spoke with Ken Soring, director of the DNR's enforcement division. He tells me Heyn was investigating a citizen complaint about an illegal deer stand. Heyn made an audio recording of the incident. The DNR has reviewed the audio and Soring says the audio shows Heyn acted appropriately and there was no use of force. Vue was cited for the illegal deer stand. To date the DNR has not received a complaint from Vue. My attempts to reach Vue from sources who have contacted me have been unsuccessful."
I guess it's obvious that we shouldn't jump to conclusions, but I'm glad a situation like this has gotten out to the public, as this will lead to more discussions for hunter safety.
Ooops...let's be cautious in our actions.
But I though Mr. Vu already reported this incident to two other officers in the field. Where's the report on that?
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Ooops...let's be cautious in our actions.
But I though Mr. Vu already reported this incident to two other officers in the field. Where's the report on that?
Yep, we have to make sure to hear the whole story first before we rush to judgement.
And reporting the incident probably wouldn't beat a recording, in the court systems.
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Thanks for the update Redemption. I am still skeptical even if it was recorded because things can always be edited, like say, the racial slurs and intimidation portion of the tape being erased. There's also many Hmong hunters coming out that have had bad run-ins with this Warden. Often times cops will cover up for each other and I don't see this situation as any different. (Yes, I know DNR are not cops.)
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Thanks for the update Redemption. I am still skeptical even if it was recorded because things can always be edited, like say, the racial slurs and intimidation portion of the tape being erased. There's also many Hmong hunters coming out that have had bad run-ins with this Warden. Often times cops will cover up for each other and I don't see this situation as any different. (Yes, I know DNR are not cops.)
True, but like I said, it's better we don't rush to judgement. This is a hard case to tackle, and I don't think anything will come of it, except discussions on how to hunt safer. It's basically a "he said, he said" case. And if there is a recording, it doesn't look good for the hunter's case. And unless the hunter wants to take it to court, and have professionals analyze the audio recording... I don't see the DNR doing anything.
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True, but like I said, it's better we don't rush to judgement. This is a hard case to tackle, and I don't think anything will come of it, except discussions on how to hunt safer. It's basically a "he said, he said" case. And if there is a recording, it doesn't look good for the hunter's case. And unless the hunter wants to take it to court, and have professionals analyze the audio recording... I don't see the DNR doing anything.
Yep, you're right. It's unfortunate all around when injustices can't be proven in cases like these. Well, I hope Hmong hunters stay safe and look out for each other.
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I didn't listen to the whole audio but did My. Vue received a citation from officer Heyn during the encounter?
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I didn't listen to the whole audio but did My. Vue received a citation from officer Heyn during the encounter?
I'm not familiar with the MN Hunting regulations, but I believe he was cited for putting up his tree stand the day before opening day?
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I didn't listen to the whole audio but did My. Vue received a citation from officer Heyn during the encounter?
I'm not familiar with the MN Hunting regulations, but I believe he was cited for putting up his tree stand the day before opening day?
Yes, he said the officer cited him for having had his stand on the tree before the hunting day. But that came only after the fearful, life-threatening excursion around the valleys.
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any audio recording by the warden or cop is useless. The ONLY useful of the audio is to set this racist butcher from being FIRED or DISCIPLINED! This maniac is NOT fit to wear a badge or have the capacity to serve as a game warden.
If a hunter feared this much about his LIFE being threaten.....t here has to be some accountability on the warden's action! Sweeping it under the rug will NOT server the interest of the public or asian hunters.
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If in fact, Vue did placed an illegally stand prior to hunting...the warden could've just stated the violation and written Vue a citation....an d the warden should be out of there as soon as he has written the citation.
It appeared the warden has over stepped his authority beyond just citing Vue for his violation. No hunter should be feared of a game warden like Vue's described. In a confrontation such as Vue's sends chill through my spine.
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any audio recording by the warden or cop is useless. The ONLY useful of the audio is to set this racist butcher from being FIRED or DISCIPLINED! This maniac is NOT fit to wear a badge or have the capacity to serve as a game warden.
If a hunter feared this much about his LIFE being threaten.....t here has to be some accountability on the warden's action! Sweeping it under the rug will NOT server the interest of the public or asian hunters.
You know... I am not saying who is right or wrong in this issue, but what I am saying is to not be too quick to judge. You speak as if no one has ever lied and said that a person with authority, abused their authority. What if this Hmong hunter felt really disrespected, and just wanted to get the warden in trouble? Another example in case you don't understand beyond your anger... what if a co-worker of yours felt like you totally disrespected her and accused you of sexual harassment... would it be better to judge you right away on the simple words of that co-worker, or would you want all the facts to come out first?
Yes, there are some people out there that abuse power, then there are also some people out that will lie and cheat, just to get someone in trouble.
So don't be so quick to judge.
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any audio recording by the warden or cop is useless. The ONLY useful of the audio is to set this racist butcher from being FIRED or DISCIPLINED! This maniac is NOT fit to wear a badge or have the capacity to serve as a game warden.
If a hunter feared this much about his LIFE being threaten.....t here has to be some accountability on the warden's action! Sweeping it under the rug will NOT server the interest of the public or asian hunters.
I agree. The fact that the warden shook Mr. Vue to such fear (for his life), shook him to tears, poob plig tas... that says A LOT. I would not be surprised if the warden did stay up all night and day editing his audio of what took place. Regardless of the evidence's end result, we have Mr. Vue's account of what took place and if someone can bring a "man" to tears and to fear that much for his life... I just have to say that I give Mr. Vue more credibility than the warden. Something needs to be done about that warden... as it sounds like this isn't the first run-in or negative confrontation he's had with Hmong hunters.
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You know... I am not saying who is right or wrong in this issue, but what I am saying is to not be too quick to judge. You speak as if no one has ever lied and said that a person with authority, abused their authority. What if this Hmong hunter felt really disrespected, and just wanted to get the warden in trouble? Another example in case you don't understand beyond your anger... what if a co-worker of yours felt like you totally disrespected her and accused you of sexual harassment... would it be better to judge you right away on the simple words of that co-worker, or would you want all the facts to come out first?
Yes, there are some people out there that abuse power, then there are also some people out that will lie and cheat, just to get someone in trouble.
So don't be so quick to judge.
You speak of not judging, yet you go about speculating that Vue made this story up to get back at the warden for intimidating Vue? You and I are both not there....we heard one side of the story (VUE's side)....it points to a very disturbing incident. I don't believe for once that an asian hunter would make up "story" to incriminate a game warden if he was properly cited and treated with respect.
The interview with VUE speaks volume of a horrific encounter with Joel Heyan where Vue feared for his life than just him violated huntign regulation. No authority should put anyone in that position of fear! To say, Heyan is innocent and was just doing his job...is to ignored that this incident did not happened and Vue and Heyan never met.
If Heyan is to gain the asian hunters community trust again or the DNR in general...he needs to come forward and explain his side of the story with his hand held high to GOD!
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You speak of not judging, yet you go about speculating that Vue made this story up to get back at the warden for intimidating Vue? You and I are both not there....we heard one side of the story (VUE's side)....it points to a very disturbing incident. I don't believe for once that an asian hunter would make up "story" to incriminate a game warden if he was properly cited and treated with respect.
Do you know the difference between judging and evaluating other sides of the story? From what we know, which isn't much, I can't make a judgement on this issue. Because the Hunter could be telling the truth, and the warden could be trying to cover it up... or the warden could be telling the truth, and the Hunter could be making it up. When I wrote what I wrote, I didn't say that's what the hunter did. I said he could have just as easily made up the story. A few of you are very narrow minded, and can only see one thing... "whites are against the hmong hunters."
The interview with VUE speaks volume of a horrific encounter with Joel Heyan where Vue feared for his life than just him violated huntign regulation. No authority should put anyone in that position of fear! To say, Heyan is innocent and was just doing his job...is to ignored that this incident did not happened and Vue and Heyan never met.
If Heyan is to gain the asian hunters community trust again or the DNR in general...he needs to come forward and explain his side of the story with his hand held high to GOD!
There have been many cases where people accuse other people of wrong doing... they call the cops on them, they take them to court, they cry and get emotional... and yet, it can still be nothing but lies. Even murderers can cry and claim to be innocent, and raise their hand to heaven and pretend that they aren't guilty. People can and will do anything when things aren't going their way.
To say that the warden is guilty, just from the hunter's words, is to ignore the fact that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. In your argument, what you're saying is that just because they met, that it had to of happened? I'm not defending the warden or the hunter, I'm just making sure you narrow minded people see that there are always two sides to a story. And if there really is an audio recording, and the dnr says that he acted correctly, then guess what? The warden has proof beyond his words, and the hunter only has his words. Not a strong case.
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I think this just reiterates the misunderstandi ng between older Hmong folks and everyone else out there. The warden may have been just following department procedures, making sure there are no other illegally hung tree stands yet the Hmong gentleman is thinking in his mind that the warden is leading him around the woods to be killed. I don't know so I'm not going to speculate on anything until all the facts come out in this case. From what I overheard on the conference call last night, the Hmong gentleman has retained a lawyer and the area Hmong associations or groups are waiting to rally behind him either way.
I don't think they're going to release the audio recording from the warden until the investigation is complete, even then they don't have to release it afterwards.
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I think this just reiterates the misunderstandi ng between older Hmong folks and everyone else out there. The warden may have been just following department procedures, making sure there are no other illegally hung tree stands yet the Hmong gentleman is thinking in his mind that the warden is leading him around the woods to be killed. I don't know so I'm not going to speculate on anything until all the facts come out in this case. From what I overheard on the conference call last night, the Hmong gentleman has retained a lawyer and the area Hmong associations or groups are waiting to rally behind him either way.
I don't think they're going to release the audio recording from the warden until the investigation is complete, even then they don't have to release it afterwards.
O0 O0
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I didn't get a chance to listen to it until now and wow what a story. If this story is true then the bad DNR needs to get punish. The way the hmong guy spoke, it sounds like this DNR warden could be the killer behind the chang guy that died in the squirrel opening season. Trust me my hmong guy, I bet this DNR warden is under investigation to see if he's connected to the hmong guy who died in opening season.
The warden made too many mistake and I'll tell you why. Never in my life, or any stories I have ever heard of. The DNR warden do not go looking for deer or hunters before dawn. Any body will know that walking in the wood is death man walking.
Another reason is why would the warden take him walking around the forest? No DNR warden has ever taken me else where. I have been checked on the spot and it's by my car, never in the forest.
Third, these got damned white folk take it too serious. The reason why is because there are less hmong hunters than the white folks and why do they have to wine about it. Be careful my hmong hunters and never come down from your tree stand if any DNR or person wants to talk to you. There is not hurt in calling your people before talking to DNR or anybody.
Lastly, the dog who came straight to him would have been shot. Sounds like a set up. This story makes Chai Vang sound like a HERO.
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Keep us all up to date on this story...
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Never in my life, or any stories I have ever heard of. The DNR warden do not go looking for deer or hunters before dawn. Any body will know that walking in the wood is death man walking.
Another reason is why would the warden take him walking around the forest? No DNR warden has ever taken me else where.
DNR game wardens have the same authority as peace officers (police). As long as they are on duty, as long as it's within their jurisdiction, they can approach whomever they want and when they want. FYI, if any of you don't know yet, in order to be considered for game warden employment, you need to have the POST which is the same thing city police officers have to test.
First thing is first: the warden stated to Kong Peng the reason that he was approached that morning is because his stand was pre-installed before hunting day is illegal in Minnesota. Kong Peng even acknowledges and admits that he did have his stand up before opener. In these cases, this is how the warden issues citations. They see an illegal stand, note the location, and return at a time when the owner of the illegal stand is most likely to be present (this would be the morning of opening day).
Here's the thing. Kong Peng stated that complying with the warden and getting down from the stand, he snuck the walkie-talkie and quickly radioed his party, most likely in Hmong, that "There is someone here so I am getting off my stand." Imagine you are that warden and a Hmong person sneakily radios in a language you don't understand. What will your reaction be? Of course he is thinking "Oh shit....could he be planning to harm me with other people?"
I am going to be honest and say I would think that too, if I was a white warden and some guy I am checking up on just radios a message in a different language. It's not being racist or insensitive. It's called a dangerous line of work. Everyone you deal with has a tool for hunting which can turn into a deadly weapon in 1/60th of a second.
This is just another case of shit gone wrong because of cultural barriers and misunderstandi ngs. It sucks because this is what it turns into; accusations of racism and further misunderstandi ngs (example: Kong Peng: "...he let his dog loose so that if I shot it, he would have reason to shoot me."). The adrenaline, the fear, the unknown, just makes the shit get worse, and worse, and worse. I'm sure the warden just wished it was just a typical citation as well.
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Hung To Low hit it right on the head. Misunderstandi ng and the cultural barrier is what escalated this incident beyond a typical citation. We've only heard from the victim's side, not the warden himself. I'm sure the department has already launched a full internal investigation to make sure one of their own isn't abusing his authority, but at the same time they're not going to sit there and take all of these allegations lightly either. So the department will defend themselves if they believe the warden acted properly (which is most likely the case according to the last updates I've heard from an internal source).
If the Hmong MN hunting community wants to make an example out of this warden, then please approach it with facts and valid/verified testimony that will hold up in court. And not from stories of enraged people who were cited and have exaggerated/vengeful motives. It's not what you say, it's what you can prove.
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Finest: Why does your avatar make me all hot an horny? This SIR should be illegal. Imma sue you for sexually trickery & debauchery. ;) :D
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that said,.....what about the verbal joel heyan accused of Peng/asian/hmong hunters as the main group of hunter that depleted the wildlife resources? Pleases enlighten me that a warden have the RIGHT to accused anyone group of such? Where are his facts? What about the BRIDE Joel tried to talk Peng into after the initial incident?
Can you "EXPERTISE" give us some insight in this?
ua tsaug.
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that said,.....what about the verbal joel heyan accused of Peng/asian/hmong hunters as the main group of hunter that depleted the wildlife resources? Pleases enlighten me that a warden have the RIGHT to accused anyone group of such? Where are his facts? What about the BRIDE Joel tried to talk Peng into after the initial incident?
Can you "EXPERTISE" give us some insight in this?
ua tsaug.
Are you retarded? That's just what the hunter said the warden said. That's someone's word against another's word. Maybe the warden said it, but then maybe he didn't. No one knows the truth, except for the hunter and the warden. Did you hear the warden say it? Do you have proof the warden said it? Were you there? You act like you were there.
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^^ Who's side are YOU on anyway?
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Are you retarded? That's just what the hunter said the warden said. That's someone's word against another's word. Maybe the warden said it, but then maybe he didn't. No one knows the truth, except for the hunter and the warden. Did you hear the warden say it? Do you have proof the warden said it? Were you there? You act like you were there.
AMAZING!!! it doesn;t take long for you to resort to name calling at all. Since you seem to get all bent out of shape at my questions, questions that we all wanted to know the answer as to what really took place. Whether Joel Heyan said it or not...if a hunter feared that much about his life. There has got to be some kind of extreme taunting committed by Joe?
Until Joe come out with a logical explanation, I'll give Peng the benefit of the doubt.
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Are you retarded? That's just what the hunter said the warden said. That's someone's word against another's word. Maybe the warden said it, but then maybe he didn't. No one knows the truth, except for the hunter and the warden. Did you hear the warden say it? Do you have proof the warden said it? Were you there? You act like you were there.
We can only hope that the audio recording that the MN DNR stated he had is available for public record so we can hear it for ourselves. But I'm still guarded on this topic with you Red, until the real facts come out.
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PHU - we all really don't know what happened that day except for the two parties involved. I know you are giving Pheng the benefit of the doubt - that is fine as you have your own reasons.
In all fairness and honesty - we should give the benefit of the doubt to both parties involved.
My reasoning is that I have been in the same shoes as the warden - accused of my actions. My accusers are also Hmong, so I can attest that a grown Hmong man will crumble to his knees, tears dripping, sobbing like a baby in hopes that he will be believed. Now mind you he had forgotten that I had recorded our conversation - He was informed of the recording beforehand. My purpose of recording the conversation was to protect myself from inflammatory accusations. It was a case of He said/She said but on tape.
Because of my experience, I can say that Hmong people can lie just as good if not better than other communities depending on what the issues are. We cannot give a person a pass or doubt them based on their Hmong character.
Let us not add more fuel to this fire and watch for the facts to come out.
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To say that somehow the DNR warden didn't have any fear or whatnot, is so bias and unfair. The truth is, both guys were equally fearful and anxious about the whole situation. You have a situation where people are in the woods away from civilization, isolated from others, when everyone carries high caliber rifles and 12 and 10 gauge shotguns. As a hunter, an ethnic minority, you have no idea if the other hunters or wardens approaching you have hate and malice in their hearts. Also, as a game warden, even a white-European person, has no idea if the hunter(s) he/she is approaching has malicious intent. Incidences involving warden and hunters are not always between whites and ethnic minorities. In the 1940s, a white person gunned down three MN DNR game wardens cold-blooded when they wanted him to present his commercial fishing license (which he didn't have). Especially out west in remote areas where people still have an anti-government/anti-progression attitude, poaching is rampant and it's a very dangerous job for game wardens. The deer season is longer and the hunting grounds are more vast, isolated and remote. In most cases, the poachers and those who give shit to wardens are white.
We are all Hmong and let's not lie to ourselves; when in privacy our Hmong elders are very expressive of their fear and suspicion of white people in general especially during hunting season, and the Chai Vang incident only exacerbated it further. What we have here is one Hmong guy who stays within the confines of Hmong community for 365 days a year and on the other end, we have one white person who stays within the confines of white community for 365 days a year. Each has their own misunderstandi ngs, fears, bias, and suspicions about the other race. It doesn't help that both persons cannot fully communicate in one language. And for these few weeks of hunting, they may encounter each other in which all of these emotions and prejudice come rushing out. All it takes is for one little action - the warden speaks in a matter-of-fact tone which Hmong elders do not use towards one another, or a hunter sneaks in a quick radio message in a language the warden cannot understand - and these emotions and prejudice, mixed with adrenaline of not knowing WTF is going on, creates something like this incident.
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To say that somehow the DNR warden didn't have any fear or whatnot, is so bias and unfair. The truth is, both guys were equally fearful and anxious about the whole situation. You have a situation where people are in the woods away from civilization, isolated from others, when everyone carries high caliber rifles and 12 and 10 gauge shotguns. As a hunter, an ethnic minority, you have no idea if the other hunters or wardens approaching you have hate and malice in their hearts. Also, as a game warden, even a white-European person, has no idea if the hunter(s) he/she is approaching has malicious intent. Incidences involving warden and hunters are not always between whites and ethnic minorities. In the 1940s, a white person gunned down three MN DNR game wardens cold-blooded when they wanted him to present his commercial fishing license (which he didn't have). Especially out west in remote areas where people still have an anti-government/anti-progression attitude, poaching is rampant and it's a very dangerous job for game wardens. The deer season is longer and the hunting grounds are more vast, isolated and remote. In most cases, the poachers and those who give shit to wardens are white.
We are all Hmong and let's not lie to ourselves; when in privacy our Hmong elders are very expressive of their fear and suspicion of white people in general especially during hunting season, and the Chai Vang incident only exacerbated it further. What we have here is one Hmong guy who stays within the confines of Hmong community for 365 days a year and on the other end, we have one white person who stays within the confines of white community for 365 days a year. Each has their own misunderstandi ngs, fears, bias, and suspicions about the other race. It doesn't help that both persons cannot fully communicate in one language. And for these few weeks of hunting, they may encounter each other in which all of these emotions and prejudice come rushing out. All it takes is for one little action - the warden speaks in a matter-of-fact tone which Hmong elders do not use towards one another, or a hunter sneaks in a quick radio message in a language the warden cannot understand - and these emotions and prejudice, mixed with adrenaline of not knowing WTF is going on, creates something like this incident.
Well said... there's two sides to the story.
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Regardless of the incident, any person have the rights to report/file a claim against any officers of the law that should be reviewed by the department's head or Internal Affairs. That is the public's right. We should not assume the reporter have any ill intentions or in misrepresentin g the facts. The claim will lead into an investigation to find the truth. Allegations of officer misconduct is a serious matter and should not be taken lightly. There also other routes in reporting, like the media.
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There also other routes in reporting, like the media.
Once you report it to the media, it's there in stone. You can never recant. Like the people who get accused of sexual abuse and it turns out it was a lie or never happened.
Yeah, I'm innocent now like I always have said. Great. So who the hell do I talk to about getting my dignity and reputation back? Never. It'll never happen. While the media and the accuser gets a homecoming party for being a "hero".
You don't go to the media unless you know for sure there's something to report. Do you know Kong Peng? Did you hear the warden's side of the story? This is like a child comes home and says "my teacher touch me..." and the parent calls school board, city police, county sheriff, and three news stations. That teacher's life is over even if it turns out the child just had an imaginative mind.
Some people don't think.
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Once you report it to the media, it's there in stone. You can never recant. Like the people who get accused of sexual abuse and it turns out it was a lie or never happened.
Yeah, I'm innocent now like I always have said. Great. So who the hell do I talk to about getting my dignity and reputation back? Never. It'll never happen. While the media and the accuser gets a homecoming party for being a "hero".
You don't go to the media unless you know for sure there's something to report. Do you know Kong Peng? Did you hear the warden's side of the story? This is like a child comes home and says "my teacher touch me..." and the parent calls school board, city police, county sheriff, and three news stations. That teacher's life is over even if it turns out the child just had an imaginative mind.
Some people don't think.
There is something you got to understand about the LAW. There are laws that protects people from reporting events no matter if true or not. Or else, if these people were to be held accountable for their reportings, NOBODY WOULD REPORT....in fears of retaliation, and prosecution. AGAIN, THE PUBLIC have the RIGHTS to report. The report is NOT FINALIZED DECISION OF WHO IS AT FAULT. The reporting goes to a governing board to investigate, and make the decision. You got to also understand that PUBLIC officails/officers, etc, are to serve the public and are held accountable for their line of work. It is not a case of you accusing your neigbhor for something in their own house.
You also don't need "both sides" of the story to file a report and a claim. ONLY the GOVERNING BOARD looks at both sides to make a decision. You are either the PLANTIFF or the DEFENDANT. YOU don't represent both and need both sides of the story. The push is to have your side heard. The defendant will represent his side. The governing board will decide.
There are times when trying to get a report heard even by the governing board can be problematic, in limbo, etc, because of bias within those department. Going to the media will put a tremendous amount of pressure so that the governing board act upon the case. Going to the media also do not need concrete proof. Again, it serves to bring public awareness and to help push the case into the eyes and ears of those who can do something about it.
This is how the laws and democracy works. Know your laws and rights.
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Any new updates on this strange case?
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Updates please.
**bump**
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Any updates to this case...?
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FINAL UPDATE ON THIS CASE FROM THE ACTIVIST WHO WAS WORKING ON THE ISSUE:
Txiabneeb-Chia Vaj (Facebook)
December 7
Greeting all:
The last idea/ideal offered by DNR was to go through uncle Vaj Tooj (Lola Cherry-Cola) and a Conservation Officer Vaj Yim Leej Lis. So, yes, I declined it. Thus there is no foreseeable future for us to meet up with DNR's to discuss the Kong Pheng Vu incident and other hunting related issues.
So please forgive me for not being able to accomplish of what I thought was the best alternative to resolve the situation.
We live and learn. We press on.
Take care!
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Oops...I've modified your reply, Joot! But just the update...sorry .
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So i'm confused....Mr . Vu no longer wants to pursue the case?
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So i'm confused....Mr . Vu no longer wants to pursue the case?
Seems like higher hmong authorities don't want to proceed with Mr. Vu's case in which Mr. Vu plead for help.
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So i'm confused....Mr . Vu no longer wants to pursue the case?
Seems like higher hmong authorities don't want to proceed with Mr. Vu's case in which Mr. Vu plead for help.
I don't know.
The MN DNR itself is quite fond of the Hmong and I am not sure why that conservation guy was like that towards Mr. Vu.
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This story does not make any sense at all. You have a Hmong hunter accusing a DNR warden of wrongdoing and there is no legal outcome/closure from it? Either the Hmong DNR people don't have the balls and are kissing up to their bosses you know what or Mr. Vu is hallucinating. As a hunter, I see this as a slap in the face for all Hmong hunters. This is going to set a bad precedent in the future in which legitimate claims are going to be ignored due to the failures of Hmong people working within the DNR.
I can see why Hmong people working in conjunction with the DNR wants to build a better relationship, but when serious claims are lodged or put forward, those issues need to be resolved. It's as if the relationship between the DNR and the Hmong people working within the DNR are too fragile and any sensitive claims are ignored just to protect the relationship it seems. Sweeping under the rug is not going to do any of us any good.
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I don't know.
The MN DNR itself is quite fond of the Hmong and I am not sure that conservation guy was like that towards Mr. Vu.
Bro..can you elaborate the highlighted words? I'm trying to make sense of all these. ua tsaug
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This story does not make any sense at all. You have a Hmong hunter accusing a DNR warden of wrongdoing and there is no legal outcome/closure from it? Either the Hmong DNR people don't have the balls and are kissing up to their bosses you know what or Mr. Vu is hallucinating. As a hunter, I see this as a slap in the face for all Hmong hunters. This is going to set a bad precedent in the future in which legitimate claims are going to be ignored due to the failures of Hmong people working within the DNR.
I can see why Hmong people working in conjunction with the DNR wants to build a better relationship, but when serious claims are lodged or put forward, those issues need to be resolved. It's as if the relationship between the DNR and the Hmong people working within the DNR are too fragile and any sensitive claims are ignored just to protect the relationship it seems. Sweeping under the rug is not going to do any of us any good.
It is typical of hmong people to downplay wrong doings of others while excusing their own. The only better relationship is one that this individual be disciplined so that if true, he doesn't do it again. If they keep on getting away with these things, it will only make it worst, or God forbid something terrible happens.
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Bro..can you elaborate the highlighted words? I'm trying to make sense of all these. ua tsaug
The DNR's heads in fishery and wildlife have met with the Hmong a few times to encourage and develop programs that would suit the Hmong's interests, although they didn't quite say it specifically that way just because it wouldn't be constitutional . But attempts have been made to grow oak trees in order to foster squirrel growth, to find ways to raise white bass in MN so the Hmong won't need to travel to ND every summer, to find ways to improve the squirrel population in MN, and to ensure nonHmong hunters respect all hunters so that there won't be Chai Vang incidents again.
I am not sure where all of those efforts have gone to so far though.
But I'm surprised the said conservation officer seems to have been so averse to Hmong hunters at the White Water area. Mr. Vu isn't the only person who has encountered aggression from this guy. Since Mr. Vu's incident, I've heard that even the Mexicans have experienced his aggression before. I think this officer needs to understand what wildlife management really is: let some animals be killed within limits so that others will have food to survive and procreate into the future. If what Mr. Vu has said is true, then the conservation officer has missed the point. He needs re-education on his work and respect for hunters who will help manage Minnesota's wildlife.
Tong Vang is the community liaison at the DNR. He's been there for some decades. Yeeleng Lee is the only Hmong conservation officer/ranger in MN at the moment. He's been there for some decades. When there's a Hmong issue, these two are usually the consultants for the MN DNR. They don't have much power at the DNR since they aren't managers or higher authorities. But for purpose of the community, they are listened to from both ends--Hmong listen to them about hunting and fishing regulations/laws/enforcements; DNR considers their advice or statements in terms of community concerns. I hope they foster mutual respect between Hmong and the non-Hmong.
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BReporter,
Thanks! However, do you know what specifically took place between Joe and Vue? How legitimate was Vu's testimony on the radio about Joe's action toward Vue? What legal action if any have been appropriated? If NOT....what reason behind the case NOT to advance it further?
It sounded like this JOE dude is a real CHARM with the minority? Given his aggressive nature toward non-white hunters....I would think the DNR higher authority would take some precaution measure with this guy? Keeping him around this area would NOT foster a good relationship with the minority hunters.
Thoughts?
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BReporter,
Thanks! However, do you know what specifically took place between Joe and Vue? How legitimate was Vu's testimony on the radio about Joe's action toward Vue? What legal action if any have been appropriated? If NOT....what reason behind the case NOT to advance it further?
It sounded like this JOE dude is a real CHARM with the minority? Given his aggressive nature toward non-white hunters....I would think the DNR higher authority would take some precaution measure with this guy? Keeping him around this area would NOT foster a good relationship with the minority hunters.
Thoughts?
I haven't heard Joe's side of the story.
I am not sure how far Vu himself has taken this. But according to ChiaNeng Vang, the community isn't pursuing this through Chianeng. If Vu has hired an attorney on the case, they'll know what to do about his claim. It's not my position to comment too much on a private case then.
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thanks bro....do keep an ear on this for us....whatever course of action mr. vu pursue....lets hope he have the best interests of the community as well as himself.
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O0
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Base on what Boua Xiong (from KARE 11) said, that there is a recording which was reviewed by superiors who determined that Heyn acted appropriately coupled with no more news from Vue, can we come to a logical conclusion that maybe Vue's story may have been more than what he claim? When Vue's story came out, the Hmong community was outraged and sided with Vue. Now that a recording is floating around, how come we don't hear anything from Vue anymore? If Vue story is indeed true, I hope he pursues the case to the fullest extent of the law. The Hmong people will be alongside him. If, however, his story is exaggerated, he will be one of the most hated by Hmong people for misleading every one of us.
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Base on what Boua Xiong (from KARE 11) said, that there is a recording which was reviewed by superiors who determined that Heyn acted appropriately coupled with no more news from Vue, can we come to a logical conclusion that maybe Vue's story may have been more than what he claim? When Vue's story came out, the Hmong community was outraged and sided with Vue. Now that a recording is floating around, how come we don't hear anything from Vue anymore? If Vue story is indeed true, I hope he pursues the case to the fullest extent of the law. The Hmong people will be alongside him. If, however, his story is exaggerated, he will be one of the most hated by Hmong people for misleading every one of us.
I think the news about the FBI being involved has intimidated the protestors. You know how it is in lawsuits and such things, Ren. Intimidation is just one technique.
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Is this the same Kong Pheng Vue that sings "txoj kev sib hlub?"
If he is, there should be no communication barrier between Mr. Vue and the warden.
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Is this the same Kong Pheng Vue that sings "txoj kev sib hlub?"
If he is, there should be no communication barrier between Mr. Vue and the warden.
No. This victim is not a singer, although his singer is a hot singer.