PebHmong Discussion Forum
Life & Living => Faith & Beliefs => Topic started by: unmatchable on January 31, 2016, 07:44:46 PM
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in God, did not believe in the miracles we see and witness, and if there were no churches or Christian organizations around? Even our dollar bill would look different .... isn't money the root of evil?
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I think it would still be the same…more or less. Humans have always been separated by different interests (religion being one of them). I’m sure we would have found other ways to develop and destroy each other.
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However, I do not believe it is necessary to hold any kind of religious belief in a divine being or being(s) in order to be moral or good. Humans have been around way longer than most modern religion and have managed to survive.
You don’t have to believe in deities but you can believe in causes or people.
There are people out there who believe in giving, taking care of the poor, healing the sick, saving the environment, championing civil rights, sheltering the homeless, finding cures for diseases, developing new scientist instruments/methods to help humanity and so on. Likewise there are people out there who believe in money, or themselves, power, fame, riches, etc. None of these require the belief in a deity(ies)…that’s not to say that the two are mutually exclusive.
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We would find other things to worship. Or another way of saying it. We will find another way to create a power struggle between the haves and the have nots.
Could a world where there is no competition exist? Hard to believe. Everything we are comes from competition.
Life is all about the struggle to survive. Whether that struggle leads to competition or cooperation depends on the people and what works for them.
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Believing in a higher being will never go away. There are miracles in the world that can't be explained and the only way to explain them is through a higher being.
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Ask yourself what religion(s) did adam and eve had or have?
They did not have a religion but they talked to god. So my answer is this. Even if there is no religion exist in this world, humans will continue to talk to someone or something. If they need a word to label he/she/it, the word God is open for the taking. O0
If we go deeper, we have to ask ourselves if animals of the fields have a religion? To me, animals are atheist. They go about and do their own things like there is no god for them. Since a god is absence with the animal kingdom (considering that humans are excluded from being called an animal), we see that if there is no religion, no god, we will be like them animals of the fields. However, them animals of the fields do not kill for sport. A rat eating snake will not kill its prey and will live with it until it is hungry again. Humans on the other hand can not do this because our brains are more complex. Without a god, a religion for man kind, without laws to hold men down, my deductive reasoning will say that there will be humans out there who will and can kill other human for sport.
In conclusion, it will be a fawked up world. You can say that yes, there are atheistic looking worlds out there. Japan is known as an atheist country and if that is the case then how come them japanese don't kill for sport or try to take over the world? The answer is simple. The country may be atheist but the world is not atheist. Other countries with a religion are putting them non religious states in check and so with that, do remember to thank the religious sectors for holding order in this world.
Time to turn in my homework. :2funny:
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We don't know for sure if they worship something or not. Hard to prove animals have a disbelief or lack of belief in a divine god. What we do know is that some animals live in a "kingdom" where there is a pecking order. Animals may not "kill" for sport, atleast not that we know of or in the way we think of. But they do fight eachother. And when it comes to Lions, according to the discovery channel I saw awhile back, they kill for means not related to food/survival. IIRC, when a lion takes over a pride, it kills all the cubs belonging to the previous Lion.
Might not have anything to do with religion, but more with the world like you put it. If everyone believes in the same thing, follows the same "laws," and so on and no one disputes anything. Perhaps at that point, there won't be war and so on. No disputes what soever. Would I call this peace? no. I have no clue what "peace" is. Peace is an illusion to me. But of course, an atheist world doesn't imply "peace" either because even atheists tends to disagree with what atheism means what identifying as an atheist is.
Someone else may want to chime in on this next part since I have maybe 0.01% knowledge in this area. Isn't the idea that order is always trying to become disorder the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics?
Which would explain how the human world works where competition never ends.
If we throw all them text out and just observed the animal kingdom today, we do not see any signs or organize religion for any groups of animals. If we go with text, Noah built the ark and who did the calling that them 2x2 animals would go into the ark?
Text also showed that catfish came together just to listen to a sermon by a saint or was that a disciple of jesus? Well text showed that this lecturing person was so at raged for these pesky catfish who hopped on over everyone's head just to get front row that he threw pebbles at them. I heard the story and I even did my own investigation. When you catch or buys a catfish, dig into his brain skull and you will find a pebble in there. :2funny:
Story may be fabricated but the stone in fish head is true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUi_BVvv9NU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUi_BVvv9NU)
Talking to god does not put a person with a religion. The devil also talks to god so what religion did the devil had? Tricky eh?
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If we throw all them text out and just observed the animal kingdom today, we do not see any signs or organize religion for any groups of animals. If we go with text, Noah built the ark and who did the calling that them 2x2 animals would go into the ark?
Text also showed that catfish came together just to listen to a sermon by a saint or was that a disciple of jesus? Well text showed that this lecturing person was so at raged for these pesky catfish who hopped on over everyone's head just to get front row that he threw pebbles at them. I heard the story and I even did my own investigation. When you catch or buys a catfish, dig into his brain skull and you will find a pebble in there. :2funny:
Story may be fabricated but the stone in fish head is true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUi_BVvv9NU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUi_BVvv9NU)
Talking to god does not put a person with a religion. The devil also talks to god so what religion did the devil had? Tricky eh?
Just because some people and/or animals doesn't act out according to one's own idea of religion, does not mean that they aren't religious or lack one. If someone does not talk to god but believes that god exist along with all the religious beliefs, does that person have a religion or not? Tricky eh?
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Just because some people and/or animals doesn't act out according to one's own idea of religion, does not mean that they aren't religious or lack one. If someone does not talk to god but believes that god exist along with all the religious beliefs, does that person have a religion or not? Tricky eh?
What religion does my dog fido has? He has not shown sign of having a religion, does not talk to any god but to you he might have a religion? What religion is that?
Adam n eve and the devil or serpent talked to god. What religion are they?
This must be a common core question. :2funny:
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And you are certain of that bolded part. how? One doesn't have to show any sign of having a religion to be religious. One doesn't have to declare faith to believe in faith. Some have actually said that people who do such things are often doing it for show. If you need other people to validate your faith or beliefs, it says alot about them in the first place.
Could animals have a set of beliefs or religion? sure.
In order to say they don't, we have to be able to prove that they don't, which i'd imagine is rather difficult to do so.
Tell me where in history have there a fido who prays to a god.
Tell me a time when there is a christian wannabe who does all the christian stuff but does not want to be baptize. Without baptism, are they included or excluded from the church?
You never make a declaration that you are hmong but how can I tell that you are hmong? I have said that when I sinned, I'm atheist so am I an atheist basing on my declaration?
Take for example a colony of bees. They all worked and looks like they worshiped the queen bee. If that is the case then what religion is that? Does it have a name? Unless it is not a prayer, a chant, a worship because if it is, where are the rouge bees who does not want to worship so I can call them my friendly atheist bees too. :2funny:
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Question: What would happen if humans suddenly lost the ability to believe in God?
Lionel Tiger: We’ve seen what happens when communities become convinced that they are entirely on their own. I guess the Nazis were a very good case. They really didn’t believe in God even though Germany had been a Catholic community and Protestant and some of the great religious thinkers came out of Germany like Luther and so on. It would be very hard to answer your question because so many of the world’s most terrible events have been because people believe in God and it therefore would be irresponsible to say that we should have no religion because people would act more nicely. I’m not sure that is true and we have only to look for example at the history of modern communism, which was really quite nasty and that wasn’t associated with God at all and yet people in what was the former Soviet Union were very unclear about where they stood, so for example, it’s highly symbolic that in Red Square, the center of Moscow, the ceremonial heart of the Russian empire, the cathedral there, Saint Basil’s had a crucifix at the top of its steeple. Now after the revolution what do you do about hat crucifix? It took them 20 years to decide that things were okay now and they replaced it with a red star. The Russians were just a little concerned about this atheism business and as we’ve seen, now that Russia has changed people are going back to the churches. There is much more attention to religion, so again, it’s not a proof. It does suggest however that if you have a completely secular theory as the communists did it can produce menacing and awful behavior and did. http://bigthink.com/videos/can-animals-be-religious (http://bigthink.com/videos/can-animals-be-religious)
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Tell me where in history have there a fido who prays to a god.
Tell me a time when there is a christian wannabe who does all the christian stuff but does not want to be baptize. Without baptism, are they included or excluded from the church?
You never make a declaration that you are hmong but how can I tell that you are hmong? I have said that when I sinned, I'm atheist so am I an atheist basing on my declaration?
Take for example a colony of bees. They all worked and looks like they worshiped the queen bee. If that is the case then what religion is that? Does it have a name? Unless it is not a prayer, a chant, a worship because if it is, where are the rouge bees who does not want to worship so I can call them my friendly atheist bees too. :2funny:
To continue with my sermon :2funny:, it seems like human beings are the only creature that have an awareness about themselves. To have a god, we have to ask ourselves about the possibility of a god or where did we come from. Animals can not rationalize this. If we can prove that they can have this awareness about themselves and the world that they are living in then yes, perhaps they can have a religion. What we observed in animals are more as a ritual but it is not the same type of rituals as how the religious are doing it.
So if fido gets fed by me, does he sees me as their god? Why does adam and eve have their god? Perhaps it is because their god has taken cared of them when they were in the garden of eden.
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What religion does my dog fido has? He has not shown sign of having a religion, does not talk to any god but to you he might have a religion? What religion is that?
Adam n eve and the devil or serpent talked to god. What religion are they?
This must be a common core question. :2funny:
Answer this, which religions aren't the ones that your dog believes in?
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People will find something to believe in and create institutions out of it. Even them atheists do this everyday. However, their beliefs are in constant revision mode because it is all relative.
The belief in a higher entity is not made up but revealed. Ever since then people have been debating over how to deal with this revelation. This is how we get organized religion.
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However, I do not believe it is necessary to hold any kind of religious belief in a divine being or being(s) in order to be moral or good. Humans have been around way longer than most modern religion and have managed to survive.
You don’t have to believe in deities but you can believe in causes or people.
There are people out there who believe in giving, taking care of the poor, healing the sick, saving the environment, championing civil rights, sheltering the homeless, finding cures for diseases, developing new scientist instruments/methods to help humanity and so on. Likewise there are people out there who believe in money, or themselves, power, fame, riches, etc. None of these require the belief in a deity(ies)…that’s not to say that the two are mutually exclusive.
By whose authority are they compelled to help the poor, heal the sick, conserve the environment and so forth? Must be that something coming from nothing hypothesis again, eh?
I highly advise atheists to listen to atheists who have since converted to Christianity. It takes another atheist to make another atheist understand. I'll dig up this youtube video I found when I have the chance. Don't take it from me, take it from a former atheist.
Another excellent former atheist to testify is The Raving Atheist. See how he went from being The Raving Atheist to The Raving Theist. That is a miracle in of itself.
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There isn't substantial evidence to support either claim. - One that I never made anyway. It could be true, I don't know. But if someone wants to claim that one or the other is true, it's their job to prove their point as true. Burden of proof as they say.
If we play with odds and statistics, we might as well say that in the coming future, our own sun will turn into a fairy girl. Still could be a probable odds and an agnostic model like until that happens, there goes my proof to get me out of this agnostic ways of thinking about the world.
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Answer this, which religions aren't the ones that your dog believes in?
Any religion that are ties with human is the answer. We humans gave names to human's religion. So you are saying that fido has a religion? Same some. :2funny:
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So you are saying that fido has a religion?
Well, according to you, yes, fido does have a religion. You pretty much said it all with your statement.
We humans gave names to human's religion.
Humans gave a name to a religion that believes is reincarnation. So if fido is a religious dog, its religion could Hinduism? O0
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Well, according to you, yes, fido does have a religion. You pretty much said it all with your statement.
Humans gave a name to a religion that believes is reincarnation. So if fido is a religious dog, its religion could Hinduism? O0
What statement? I must have missed something there.
Reincarnation is not a religion. Humans gave a name to his religion. He did not give a name to fido's religion even if fido is included in his religion concept. Note the distinction.
Once again, what is the name of the religion that fido or which god does fido prays to? I gave you a simple example. I fed fido daily and he looks to me with his puppy doggy eyes so am I his god? If so, what is the name of this religion?
No name, no case. Ta da O0
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What statement? I must have missed something there.
Reincarnation is not a religion. Humans gave a name to his religion. He did not give a name to fido's religion even if fido is included in his religion concept. Note the distinction.
Once again, what is the name of the religion that fido or which god does fido prays to? I gave you a simple example. I fed fido daily and he looks to me with his puppy doggy eyes so am I his god? If so, what is the name of this religion?
No name, no case. Ta da O0
Hahaha.
Denial isn't going to get you out of the hole you dug yourself in to, especially when you are digging that hole deeper with your failed attempt at defending your statement.
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Hahaha.
Denial isn't going to get you out of the hole you dug yourself in to, especially when you are digging that hole deeper with your failed attempt at defending your statement.
So fido is a Hindu?
Or are you going to offend the Hindu gods and her religion?
Don't chirp if have a weak hand. Ta da
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So fido is a Hindu?
Or are you going to offend the Hindu gods and her religion?
Don't chirp if have a weak hand. Ta da
Then why are you chirping? Trying to shift the burden of proof doesn't mean you have a strong hand. Still waiting for your evidence.
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Then why are you chirping? Trying to shift the burden of proof doesn't mean you have a strong hand. Still waiting for your evidence.
Did you not say that fido could be hindu? :2funny:
"Humans gave a name to a religion that believes is reincarnation. So if fido is a religious dog, its religion could Hinduism?"
So once again, what is the name of the religion that fido has or which god do they pray to?
No name, no case therefore, no need to chirp. No scientific or observable behaviors in fido that shows he's a hindu or any of the man given names to his religion.
Saying that fido is hindu is like me saying that you and your atheist kind are really Christian from your so called observable behaviors. Silly much isn't it? :2funny:
Fido a hindu. Imagine that. He should be offended. :D
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However, I do not believe it is necessary to hold any kind of religious belief in a divine being or being(s) in order to be moral or good. Humans have been around way longer than most modern religion and have managed to survive.
You don’t have to believe in deities but you can believe in causes or people.
There are people out there who believe in giving, taking care of the poor, healing the sick, saving the environment, championing civil rights, sheltering the homeless, finding cures for diseases, developing new scientist instruments/methods to help humanity and so on. Likewise there are people out there who believe in money, or themselves, power, fame, riches, etc. None of these require the belief in a deity(ies)…that’s not to say that the two are mutually exclusive.
I believed in giving but just not to church or religion research.
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in God, did not believe in the miracles we see and witness, and if there were no churches or Christian organizations around? Even our dollar bill would look different .... isn't money the root of evil?
R u talking about a Christian God? If the world did not believe in a Christian God, they would believe in some other like Allah, Sun God (Egypt), etc..
But if you're asking what would a world without religion be like - Not sure. I haven't seen that world - because within all human beings right now and since the beginning of time, lies the innate knowledge there's a creator and because we have this knowledge, we're going to worship whom ever we think is this creator.
If we didn't have the innate knowledge of a creator - in that world - anyone worshiping a God would be considered "crazy."
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I think it would still be the same…more or less. Humans have always been separated by different interests (religion being one of them). I’m sure we would have found other ways to develop and destroy each other.
We all sin. Something needed to b done about it
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However, I do not believe it is necessary to hold any kind of religious belief in a divine being or being(s) in order to be moral or good. Humans have been around way longer than most modern religion and have managed to survive.
You don’t have to believe in deities but you can believe in causes or people.
There are people out there who believe in giving, taking care of the poor, healing the sick, saving the environment, championing civil rights, sheltering the homeless, finding cures for diseases, developing new scientist instruments/methods to help humanity and so on. Likewise there are people out there who believe in money, or themselves, power, fame, riches, etc. None of these require the belief in a deity(ies)…that’s not to say that the two are mutually exclusive.
I think most of those organizations are religious based.
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We're self-destructive so we'd figure out another way to mess up this world. Not that religion is bad or that people are inherently bad. We just tend to destroy everything we touch.
Anyway, isn't the correct quote "the love of money is the root of all evil." Money itself is not evil or good; it's an object upon which humans project value. It's through human desire, greed, and selfishness that evil is maintained.
Oh yes thank you. It's not money itself, but the love of money