PebHmong Discussion Forum

General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Wedding Rituals & Customs => Topic started by: thehotone on October 01, 2013, 12:26:15 PM

Title: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: thehotone on October 01, 2013, 12:26:15 PM
I know alot of pple are against the "bride price" that we Hmong have been practicing for generations now and let it be known that it's just not the Hmong who practice this but all of the Southeast Asians do. Thai requires money and gold, so do Laotians and Vietnamese. Hmong are actually simpler, all they want is cash now.

As the parents of the bride, how would you feel about not asking for the bride price but instead pi-cua (I can't spell in Hmong) your daughter gold and cash along with other items for her new life? You'll be hosting the wedding out of your own pockets, of course, and then sending your daughter off to his family with your gold and money.

When I tell people how I feel about it, it's almost you're paying to get rid of your daughter.  ;D So the best solution should be ask for the bride price, use that little money to pay for the wedding expenses and gift it back to your daughter...... ....... right?
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: BoredatWork on October 01, 2013, 01:24:55 PM
Do you understand the reasoning for the head price?  From what I understand the money is used as leverage by the parents of the bride to ensure her husband loves her(kind of like a down payment so if you default on your loan you have something to lose).  I know a lot of pple think of it as paying for a person but that's not what it is supposed to be.  Once my dad sees that the couple is stable (X amount of years and X amount of kids) and have been together for long enough, he usually gives the head price money back to his daughter and son in law. 
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: theking on October 01, 2013, 03:04:27 PM
I know alot of pple are against the "bride price" that we Hmong have been practicing for generations now and let it be known that it's just not the Hmong who practice this but all of the Southeast Asians do. Thai requires money and gold, so do Laotians and Vietnamese. Hmong are actually simpler, all they want is cash now.

As the parents of the bride, how would you feel about not asking for the bride price but instead pi-cua (I can't spell in Hmong) your daughter gold and cash along with other items for her new life? You'll be hosting the wedding out of your own pockets, of course, and then sending your daughter off to his family with your gold and money.

When I tell people how I feel about it, it's almost you're paying to get rid of your daughter.  ;D So the best solution should be ask for the bride price, use that little money to pay for the wedding expenses and gift it back to your daughter...... ....... right?

True that several countries practice it. Some parents even pay the groom vs. the other way, to take in their daughter. According to some experts, Hmong actually adopted this practice from the Chinese so it's wasn't a Hmong thing to begin with. The funny part is Chinese for the most part have moved forward and dropped that primitive practice while many Hmong still practice it.

If I have a daughter, I would not ask or even mention it because that primitive practice doesn't make sense in this day and age anymore. I would rather the young couple or the groom's parents use that money for the wedding celebration or invest in the young couple's future.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: dlabtsi_os on October 01, 2013, 04:51:52 PM
True that several countries practice it. Some parents even pay the groom vs. the other way, to take in their daughter. According to some experts, Hmong actually adopted this practice from the Chinese so it's wasn't a Hmong thing to begin with. The funny part is Chinese for the most part have moved forward and dropped that primitive practice while many Hmong still practice it.

If I have a daughter, I would not ask or even mention it because that primitive practice doesn't make sense in this day and age anymore. I would rather the young couple or the groom's parents use that money for the wedding celebration or invest in the young couple's future.

Personally, I don't believe that in face value.  :2funny: However, you know theking there is always that third traditional option of Hmong wedding. Where the future bride and groom stays at two family in certain amount of days and then consider as marry. As for payment it's either a yes or no. What Hmong OG doesn't like is paying the expense for the bride of groom using their stuff. But usually they should able to overlook that if the family has a steady income. :2funny:
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: lilly on October 01, 2013, 05:01:31 PM
The dowry/bride price does not have much value to me anymore.  I will not ask my future son-in-law to pay to marry my daughter.  My plan is... before they officially get married, I will have a special talk with him... that if he is not serious in any shape or form when it comes to respecting her, loving her, taking care of her heart/mind/body... he should walk away.  That will be my gift to my daughter. 
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Sydney on October 18, 2013, 02:06:32 PM
Buy a house, a car, and have a job and love my child and you can have my daughter for a bride.  I won't put a value on her head.  She is her own person to choose her future path.  All I ask is that they will do the wedding out of their own pocket.  The moment is his and hers, not the relatives or the parents.  No money is asked, only given. 

Am I against bride price?  No, but I refuse to practice something that does not ensure or guaranteed happiness for my child. 
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Believe_N_Me on October 21, 2013, 01:53:38 PM
I will be asking for a bride token. My concerns are not with the groom but with his parents and their family members. The visual exchange is symbolic that they have accepted my daughter into their family. This exchange is no different then when we pay upfront fees to process paperwork at INS to be naturalized.

If the bride and groom wants an Americanized wedding celebration then it should come out of their own pockets. My only concern is the transaction and union between myself and the groom's parents under the traditional Hmong marriage ceremony. Many ignorant, younger Hmong folks do not understand that the Hmoob tshoob is for the parents to signify their union. This is why there is that saying "mus ua tshoob rau niam tais thiab yawm txiv." Whatever happens outside of that "peb tsis k".

Again, those that criticize are completely ignorant of the culture and the reasons behind them. They look at it from a non-Hmong perspective. Not only that but the views they hold for themselves don't even make sense. Like, why would you pay a wedding celebration for your kid? It's their love relationship, they should pay for it themselves.  ::) Secondly, I would not give money to invest in their future when there is no guarantee the marriage will stay in tact. I will, however, invest in any children that they produce together.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: hmongperson on October 22, 2013, 03:19:34 AM
Hmong people and their ignorance never cease to amuse me. You guys got it wrong, and your parents got it wrong, their parents got it wrong, etc.... It goes way back to years of misinformation and ignorance. There was a price, but it was never called a "bride price" or "head price". And it was never meant to mean anything similar to that.

The "bride price" came into existence because of greedy Hmongs who used it to to force their wives to stay with them, or greedy inlaws who used it to force their son-in-law to continuing keeping thier lazy wives.

If one looked closely at the "zaj tshoob" and the many stories that we have to explain things one will realize that the "bride price" does not exist. A certain price does exist, but it is not meant to serve the purpose that we use it for today. Most "meej koob" don't know this because they are not tasked to comprehend the verses, but rather to regurgitate. Mind you, it takes very little brain power to regurgitate. Or simply most "meej koob" just over look the matter because it is not the "norm".

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.

This is the reason a groom pays a price. Hmongs have a circular way of thinking, like a belief in karma. The price, in sense, helps to keep the ball rolling. But, along the way Hmongs started to getting greedy and thus we end up with the perverted "bride price" that we have today. We have drifted so far from the original ideal that now the notion of a "price" is being seen as archaic and bad.

The Hmong culture and Hmong way of life is about brotherhood, sisterhood, and family. Women use to be held in high prestige since it use to be common knowledge that it is the woman that makes the man. Who is it that ultimately ends up saving and elevating the life of the orphan boy? One use to be able to trust their spouse being alone with another person of the opposite sex as long as that other person had the same last name. One use to be able to go to a Hmong village, not know anyone and have a place to sleep and a warm meal to eat. Weddings use to meant the celebration and joining of two families.

Women are seen as objects to be used rather than savior of men. The Hmongs have a saying that a woman can make or break a man. We can see the misuse/appreciation of women happening around us in the Hmong community everyday. Hmongs look the other way when another Hmong is in need. Weddings are now a place to start conflict or settle conflicts.

 Don't get me wrong though, some women are succubus', and some men are valiant. There are those out there that strive to help out selflessly. But, a community's strength is measured by it's weakest links. And thus far, our weakest links is made up of a significan.If this generation is going to be the ones to inherit the future, I have no faith.

 
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: 3 Years Time on October 22, 2013, 08:49:46 AM
I know alot of pple are against the "bride price" that we Hmong have been practicing for generations now and let it be known that it's just not the Hmong who practice this but all of the Southeast Asians do. Thai requires money and gold, so do Laotians and Vietnamese. Hmong are actually simpler, all they want is cash now.

As the parents of the bride, how would you feel about not asking for the bride price but instead pi-cua (I can't spell in Hmong) your daughter gold and cash along with other items for her new life? You'll be hosting the wedding out of your own pockets, of course, and then sending your daughter off to his family with your gold and money.

When I tell people how I feel about it, it's almost you're paying to get rid of your daughter.  ;D So the best solution should be ask for the bride price, use that little money to pay for the wedding expenses and gift it back to your daughter...... ....... right?
You're right, SE Asians also do. If you knew your history, Hmong aren't Southeast Asians, we're East Asians.

Our Hmong in China do not practice bride price, we got the idea when we got to SE Asia. Remember now, there are still more Hmong people in China than there are anywhere else in the world. Just because our specific group migrated to SE Asia doesn't make us SE Asians. If we migrated to Europe, does that make us European? No.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: DuMa on October 22, 2013, 09:00:39 AM
if you have issue with the cultural rule of paying a fee for a wedding, my advice is for you to wait until both of your parents and her parents die off so that you can do it your way or the high way  :2funny:

With my viet people, if the guy pay, the girl comes living with the guy's family and be a nyab.  If the girl pays, the guy goes living with her parents and be her biatch.   :2funny:
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: luckyvang on October 22, 2013, 05:55:41 PM
Goodie... I don't know how this thread started up, but this is how I got interested in this topic again.

http://matadornetwork.com/community/tiffanyvang2/hmong-18-clan-council-conference-there-are-just-things-you-cant-save/#comment-898 (http://matadornetwork.com/community/tiffanyvang2/hmong-18-clan-council-conference-there-are-just-things-you-cant-save/#comment-898)

Read this article, give your opinion, and find out how off topic some people are....

I'll be back to check on the progress.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: luckyvang on October 22, 2013, 06:13:28 PM

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.


Good statement.  Took the words out of my mouth.  Here is a verse I'd like to put in....

Phoojywg coj kev sis laug, kuv lawv txiv nyuj qua pwm moog sawv kuv naj kuv txiv lub nkuaj ntsuab, tes miv ntxhais nkauj mog qua mim yuav moog taab kuam tau kuv nam kuv txiv tom ub lub zoo cuab. 

Dearest friends who travel the road of equality, I will steer the bull to stand (archaic meaning to "uphold") my parents green pen, and the bride will become for my parents "over there" a good daughter in law. 

Lub cuab lub yig doesn't mean daughter in law, but this makes more sense to non-hmong speakers. 
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: AOZ on October 24, 2013, 03:38:47 PM
LOLs.  so tired of hearing brideprice sides.

let's put it this way... if my daughters fall in love with you.... and you will not pay brideprice... I will pay your parents GROOMSPRICE and you move in to live with us.   O0 ;D
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Believe_N_Me on October 24, 2013, 11:36:34 PM
Hmong people and their ignorance never cease to amuse me. You guys got it wrong, and your parents got it wrong, their parents got it wrong, etc.... It goes way back to years of misinformation and ignorance. There was a price, but it was never called a "bride price" or "head price". And it was never meant to mean anything similar to that.

The "bride price" came into existence because of greedy Hmongs who used it to to force their wives to stay with them, or greedy inlaws who used it to force their son-in-law to continuing keeping thier lazy wives.

If one looked closely at the "zaj tshoob" and the many stories that we have to explain things one will realize that the "bride price" does not exist. A certain price does exist, but it is not meant to serve the purpose that we use it for today. Most "meej koob" don't know this because they are not tasked to comprehend the verses, but rather to regurgitate. Mind you, it takes very little brain power to regurgitate. Or simply most "meej koob" just over look the matter because it is not the "norm".

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.

This is the reason a groom pays a price. Hmongs have a circular way of thinking, like a belief in karma. The price, in sense, helps to keep the ball rolling. But, along the way Hmongs started to getting greedy and thus we end up with the perverted "bride price" that we have today. We have drifted so far from the original ideal that now the notion of a "price" is being seen as archaic and bad.

The Hmong culture and Hmong way of life is about brotherhood, sisterhood, and family. Women use to be held in high prestige since it use to be common knowledge that it is the woman that makes the man. Who is it that ultimately ends up saving and elevating the life of the orphan boy? One use to be able to trust their spouse being alone with another person of the opposite sex as long as that other person had the same last name. One use to be able to go to a Hmong village, not know anyone and have a place to sleep and a warm meal to eat. Weddings use to meant the celebration and joining of two families.

Women are seen as objects to be used rather than savior of men. The Hmongs have a saying that a woman can make or break a man. We can see the misuse/appreciation of women happening around us in the Hmong community everyday. Hmongs look the other way when another Hmong is in need. Weddings are now a place to start conflict or settle conflicts.

 Don't get me wrong though, some women are succubus', and some men are valiant. There are those out there that strive to help out selflessly. But, a community's strength is measured by it's weakest links. And thus far, our weakest links is made up of a significan.If this generation is going to be the ones to inherit the future, I have no faith.

 

In a nutshell, it's an exchange. You add to your family by taking away from mine so pay up.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: hmongperson on October 25, 2013, 04:52:17 PM
In a nutshell, it's an exchange. You add to your family by taking away from mine so pay up.
So you can add to yours, thus continuing the cycle.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: dlabtsi_os on October 25, 2013, 06:27:39 PM
LOLs.  so tired of hearing brideprice sides.

let's put it this way... if my daughters fall in love with you.... and you will not pay brideprice... I will pay your parents GROOMSPRICE and you move in to live with us.   O0 ;D
Nope as long Patriarchy stands, some Hmong Women will never be satisfy.  :2funny: :2funny:

In a nutshell, it's an exchange. You add to your family by taking away from mine so pay up.

Basically, regardless how much each individual tries to romanticize or looking at it realistically, its all about the exchanging values. Another problem that Hmong people face is how will we lift ourselves up from the economic standards.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Believe_N_Me on October 25, 2013, 09:53:31 PM
I have no problem with those of you who want to give your daughters away for free. That means those with sons will keep their wallets fat.  O0 But like I said, why do you care if others still want to continue the tradition? It doesn't demean you and it doesn't demean them because they see the value in it. If you don't like it, just make sure your sons don't fall in love with a girl who comes from a family that still sees value in the bride token. Your points and argument are so invalid since it doesn't even apply to you.  :idiot2: You folks are as crazy as those atheists who keep trying to change church rules when they aren't even churchgoers themselves.  :idiot2:
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: night912 on October 31, 2013, 01:17:59 PM
I have no problem with those of you who want to give your daughters away for free. That means those with sons will keep their wallets fat.  O0 But like I said, why do you care if others still want to continue the tradition? It doesn't demean you and it doesn't demean them because they see the value in it. If you don't like it, just make sure your sons don't fall in love with a girl who comes from a family that still sees value in the bride token. Your points and argument are so invalid since it doesn't even apply to you.  :idiot2: You folks are as crazy as those atheists who keep trying to change church rules when they aren't even churchgoers themselves.  :idiot2:

It's a double edge sword.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: AOZ on November 04, 2013, 07:36:26 PM
hehehe....

when you really really really really want to marry your girl really really bad... you willl pay what ever brideprice her parents ask.   i seen it with my own eyes... some of your hmong clan girls go for 15 -30K..... that's because they are beautiful and tall.... doesn't matter about the rest.... just that our vauvs and bils want them that much.   O0
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Reporter on March 05, 2014, 01:29:13 PM
Isn't there a Chinese guy who is trying to pay 80M to some guy whoever her daughter is willing to marry? Good way to get rid of her, right?
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Badkarma on March 15, 2014, 04:34:02 PM
So, out of curiosity, what if the groom has no family? Or if he isn't Hmong?
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: VillainousHero on March 16, 2014, 12:28:13 PM
So, out of curiosity, what if the groom has no family? Or if he isn't Hmong?

Traditionally "orphans" will have almost no chance...the groom is gonna have to be extra wealthy monetary or extremely well respected and have others people vouch for him.  Another part of negotiations is the groom who will be under the bride's family...meani ng you might be like a slave to her parents for x number of years until her parents see you fit to move out and have your own life.

Given today's lot of society...who knows for sure how some people will act or react.  If a Hmong woman wants to marry you...she doesn't have to listen to didly squat what her parents or anyone esle has to say...She's gonna go American - Las Vega's wedding bells...if she so want to her choice.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Badkarma on March 17, 2014, 06:30:20 PM
Lol, well, I ask because my only family are some uncles/ aunts and cousins.

I'm a 30yr old man with pretty much everything a man could want. If I were to marry a Hmong woman, it makes no sense to me to live with her family if I have my own home/job/life. I understand respecting elders and family, but I'm a man, and I will be regarded as such.

That's all :)

I guess I'll be paying a hefty dowry lol.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: VillainousHero on March 22, 2014, 10:23:13 AM
Don't just think you're a man in according to American culture.

I know the sentiments of a lot of people thinking it's a hefty sum of money with nothing tied to it but worldly possessions.  In fact if you look at it from it's original true worth of humanity...it's all about respect and honor for such a relationship.  If you take into it as a matter of civility, you will see that in every society and not just the Hmong culture.  The amount is hardly the objective, but as always more out of respect and establishing a relationship between two families.  That's why there's such a saying, "when you marry, you marry the whole family as well."

Respect demands a lot of civility, humility, and modesty that will prove what kind of man you are.  Doesn't matter if you're a millionaire or just a poor beggar.  That poor beggar may in fact carry the bloodline of a true nobility.

In the old ways to some people, but true societal Hmong ways...each house should be regarded as a king's castle.  No matter how poor such a family is.  If you truly want to pay respect and honor, you need to see it from this perspective.  Doesn't matter if the father is just some janitor...he's still a king of his castle.  Even if the mother is actually head of the household...th at's another curve ball into respect.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: 3 Years Time on March 22, 2014, 10:34:16 AM
Don't just think you're a man in according to American culture.

I know the sentiments of a lot of people thinking it's a hefty sum of money with nothing tied to it but worldly possessions.  In fact if you look at it from it's original true worth of humanity...it's all about respect and honor for such a relationship.  If you take into it as a matter of civility, you will see that in every society and not just the Hmong culture.  The amount is hardly the objective, but as always more out of respect and establishing a relationship between two families.  That's why there's such a saying, "when you marry, you marry the whole family as well."

Respect demands a lot of civility, humility, and modesty that will prove what kind of man you are.  Doesn't matter if you're a millionaire or just a poor beggar.  That poor beggar may in fact carry the bloodline of a true nobility.

In the old ways to some people, but true societal Hmong ways...each house should be regarded as a king's castle.  No matter how poor such a family is.  If you truly want to pay respect and honor, you need to see it from this perspective.  Doesn't matter if the father is just some janitor...he's still a king of his castle.  Even if the mother is actually head of the household...th at's another curve ball into respect.
No one needs to pay me $5000 to show their respects when they marry my daughters. I trust my daughters enough to know they will choose wisely. Now, for a g-thug marrying the first chick he got pregnant, I can't say the same about him and his family. Material objects have no value of respect to me, it's someone's character that'll show value.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: VillainousHero on March 22, 2014, 10:45:57 AM
No one needs to pay me $5000 to show their respects when they marry my daughters. I trust my daughters enough to know they will choose wisely. Now, for a g-thug marrying the first chick he got pregnant, I can't say the same about him and his family. Material objects have no value of respect to me, it's someone's character that'll show value.

Like I said...it's not about the money...it's about the respect.  If someone offers me their daughter for free...I still want to know the person (daughter personally).  If we hit it off...that's great...if not, then that's just how it would be, not gonna happen.

Speaking for myself...respe ctfully, I would still pay you a hefty sum of money...out of respect.  It's the gesture.  That is what it says about my character.

When I'm a father and my daughter will get married...pers onally that money paid to me...well that's gonna be for my daughter (her dowry).  It's a safety net...so I know that she will have some money for emergencies if something should come up.  It's for her and her only.  Not for her to give to her new husband.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: yuknowthat on May 20, 2014, 10:31:12 AM
So, out of curiosity, what if the groom has no family? Or if he isn't Hmong?
doesnt matter... pay up.. we all are still men...doesnt matter which race/ethnic you are.....
Its all about respect.. traditional hmong wedding isnt hard when you really narrow it down.. majority is just all for show..

I am sure will be doing a wedding as my wife side of family recommended traditionally to their standards if im ever to marry a mexican, italian, irish, or american woman...
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: BetterWitAge on May 21, 2014, 12:27:15 PM
money can't buy respect. it's plain and simply greed. greed and pride. if you don't trust your children enough when they can make decisions on their own, then you fail as a parent.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Sydney on May 21, 2014, 07:09:37 PM
money can't buy respect. it's plain and simply greed. greed and pride. if you don't trust your children enough when they can make decisions on their own, then you fail as a parent.

I agree.  Respect isn't measured by money.  Money, in fact, is considered the root of all evil to some people. 
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: BetterWitAge on May 21, 2014, 11:02:19 PM
As the 1st generation of Hmong Americans it is our duty to dispose many of the traditions that will no longer benefit us as a cultural ethnicity.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: chidorix0x on June 24, 2014, 07:18:12 PM
Do you understand the reasoning for the head price?  From what I understand the money is used as leverage by the parents of the bride to ensure her husband loves her(kind of like a down payment so if you default on your loan you have something to lose).  I know a lot of pple think of it as paying for a person but that's not what it is supposed to be.  Once my dad sees that the couple is stable (X amount of years and X amount of kids) and have been together for long enough, he usually gives the head price money back to his daughter and son in law.

Epic Fail.  Who -- what OG, elder, or traditional Hmong practitioner -- told you or made up this claim for you to speak so idiotically as such?  (Most likely, it is a Western-bred psychosis claiming to have Hmong sensitivity, LOL!  Khev-zim tiag tiag.)
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: chidorix0x on June 24, 2014, 07:34:10 PM
Hmong people and their ignorance never cease to amuse me. You guys got it wrong, and your parents got it wrong, their parents got it wrong, etc.... It goes way back to years of misinformation and ignorance. There was a price, but it was never called a "bride price" or "head price". And it was never meant to mean anything similar to that.

The "bride price" came into existence because of greedy Hmongs who used it to to force their wives to stay with them, or greedy inlaws who used it to force their son-in-law to continuing keeping thier lazy wives.

If one looked closely at the "zaj tshoob" and the many stories that we have to explain things one will realize that the "bride price" does not exist. A certain price does exist, but it is not meant to serve the purpose that we use it for today. Most "meej koob" don't know this because they are not tasked to comprehend the verses, but rather to regurgitate. Mind you, it takes very little brain power to regurgitate. Or simply most "meej koob" just over look the matter because it is not the "norm".

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.

This is the reason a groom pays a price. Hmongs have a circular way of thinking, like a belief in karma. The price, in sense, helps to keep the ball rolling. But, along the way Hmongs started to getting greedy and thus we end up with the perverted "bride price" that we have today. We have drifted so far from the original ideal that now the notion of a "price" is being seen as archaic and bad.

The Hmong culture and Hmong way of life is about brotherhood, sisterhood, and family. Women use to be held in high prestige since it use to be common knowledge that it is the woman that makes the man. Who is it that ultimately ends up saving and elevating the life of the orphan boy? One use to be able to trust their spouse being alone with another person of the opposite sex as long as that other person had the same last name. One use to be able to go to a Hmong village, not know anyone and have a place to sleep and a warm meal to eat. Weddings use to meant the celebration and joining of two families.

Women are seen as objects to be used rather than savior of men. The Hmongs have a saying that a woman can make or break a man. We can see the misuse/appreciation of women happening around us in the Hmong community everyday. Hmongs look the other way when another Hmong is in need. Weddings are now a place to start conflict or settle conflicts.

 Don't get me wrong though, some women are succubus', and some men are valiant. There are those out there that strive to help out selflessly. But, a community's strength is measured by it's weakest links. And thus far, our weakest links is made up of a significan.If this generation is going to be the ones to inherit the future, I have no faith.

EPIC FAIL!  (I assure you, you are not the only one familiar with Hmong practices, beliefs, and marriage/funeral rites -- including COV ZAJ.)

You totally MISINTERPRETED/misunderstood the words/zaj "Nqid Mis Nqid Hno".  Literally it means "Price of Milk.  Price of Food.", to literally mean the "Cost/price to raise. (a child/daughter)".  That in itself is the "Bride Price" or "Head Price" which it is fully intended, and intended to mean.  As a matter of fact, it is known (been aggressively practiced and observed) throughout Hmong history, even in the West, till Western assimilation, tolerance, and turmoil that the "Head Price" is and was truly meant as such; that is a "price" to be paid.  And historically, the more beautiful the girl, more affluent, and more successful, the more expensive she cost.  There was no standard, as in livestock and agriculture, or the free market.  Why do you suppose most/all Hmong still say, "Nqid Taub Hau", literally meaning "Head Price", as if selling a cattle, pig, or any other livestock.

But here, nowadays in the West, people (Hmong) will call it just about anything except its somewhat negative connotation, which it is not.  I have even heard OG "Mej Koob" tell ignorant Westernizers that Hmong do not practice "bride price" but it is rather IN FACT a "dowry".  That is not true, and arguably a flat out LIE.

FACT:
Bride Price = Nqid Mis Nqid Hno/Nqid Taub Hau
Dowry = Phij Cuam
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: duckwingduck on June 24, 2014, 10:31:11 PM
So, out of curiosity, what if the groom has no family? Or if he isn't Hmong?

My sister is marrying a non-Hmong guy and he really wants a Hmong wedding.  I guess he wants to show appreciation for my parents.  My parents do not mind an American wedding.  So, because he doesn't know any Hmong, my sister has to find Hmong people to be on his side for the wedding.  I don't know how much my parents will make him pay but from the look of it, he's willing to pay any price.. maybe not $50k though.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: duckwingduck on June 24, 2014, 10:36:15 PM
Let me propose a good solution.

Right now this is the approach:
-Pay $100-$5,000 engagement ring.
-Pay $1000-$5,000 wedding ring.
-Spend $10,000 to $40,000 on wedding
-Pay $5,000 or more for the bride price.

So some are asking to fro the bride price of $5,000.

I suggest drop the first two.  Donate the bride price to a charity of your choice.  The reason for keeping the bride price?  Just to make sure the guy is not a loser.

Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: chidorix0x on June 25, 2014, 12:40:39 AM
Let me propose a good solution.

Right now this is the approach:
-Pay $100-$5,000 engagement ring.
-Pay $1000-$5,000 wedding ring.
-Pay $5,000 or more for the bride price.

So some are asking to fro the bride price of $5,000.

I suggest drop the first two.  Donate the bride price to a charity of your choice.  The reason for keeping the bride price?  Just to make sure the guy is not a loser.


Traditional Hmong could care less (completely disregard/disavow) your first two proposal.  They are nothing but a Western concept, and is completely irrelevant and inapplicable in/within a Hmong wedding -- traditional and/or nontraditional -- unless one wants an American-based type wedding.  And even then, those two are not entirely the norm, or is required and mandatory ...   >:D .
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Believe_N_Me on July 29, 2014, 04:38:15 PM
As the 1st generation of Hmong Americans it is our duty to dispose many of the traditions that will no longer benefit us as a cultural ethnicity.

I'm pretty sure this is how the Hmong lost their history. At least our ancestors had the excuse that they were forced to lose their culture. What will your excuse be seeing that you live in this great country which not only allows you to celebrate your culture but encourages you to hold onto it?
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: chabee on August 01, 2014, 11:57:49 AM
EPIC FAIL!  (I assure you, you are not the only one familiar with Hmong practices, beliefs, and marriage/funeral rites -- including COV ZAJ.)

You totally MISINTERPRETED/misunderstood the words/zaj "Nqid Mis Nqid Hno".  Literally it means "Price of Milk.  Price of Food.", to literally mean the "Cost/price to raise. (a child/daughter)".  That in itself is the "Bride Price" or "Head Price" which it is fully intended, and intended to mean.  As a matter of fact, it is known (been aggressively practiced and observed) throughout Hmong history, even in the West, till Western assimilation, tolerance, and turmoil that the "Head Price" is and was truly meant as such; that is a "price" to be paid.  And historically, the more beautiful the girl, more affluent, and more successful, the more expensive she cost.  There was no standard, as in livestock and agriculture, or the free market.  Why do you suppose most/all Hmong still say, "Nqid Taub Hau", literally meaning "Head Price", as if selling a cattle, pig, or any other livestock.

But here, nowadays in the West, people (Hmong) will call it just about anything except its somewhat negative connotation, which it is not.  I have even heard OG "Mej Koob" tell ignorant Westernizers that Hmong do not practice "bride price" but it is rather IN FACT a "dowry".  That is not true, and arguably a flat out LIE.

FACT:
Bride Price = Nqid Mis Nqid Hno/Nqid Taub Hau
Dowry = Phij Cuam

I agree with you!!!!! We need to just get rid of this head price, period!!!!
My daughters are not having this head price to think about.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: chabee on August 01, 2014, 11:59:32 AM
I'm pretty sure this is how the Hmong lost their history. At least our ancestors had the excuse that they were forced to lose their culture. What will your excuse be seeing that you live in this great country which not only allows you to celebrate your culture but encourages you to hold onto it?

Hmnongs are very very very bad with their words and understanding of its true meaning. For Hmong, there's a thin line between Culture, Custom, and Religion. Some... just have no idea what each one is...

Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: dogmai on August 01, 2014, 04:20:47 PM
Hmnongs are very very very bad with their words and understanding of its true meaning. For Hmong, there's a thin line between Culture, Custom, and Religion. Some... just have no idea what each one is...

True. One example is drinking.
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: Stybic_Kemaka on April 07, 2015, 11:25:27 PM
Mex/black/white free no money y always cry bout a nickel here or there ... Put in baby terms for u guy .. Take as future payment for baby sitting fees lol
Title: Re: Those who are against "bride price"
Post by: chidorix0x on April 14, 2015, 01:17:30 PM
Hmnongs are very very very bad with their words and understanding of its true meaning. For Hmong, there's a thin line between Culture, Custom, and Religion. Some... just have no idea what each one is...

... kekeke  ...   ::)  ...  KEKEKE  ...   :2funny:

If u mean the ignorant and clueless HA'MUNG then perhaps u have a point and/or 1/2 assh argument.

But with the Hmong/Mong, especially all the XibFwbs of Hmong culture,  custom,  and religion then it is clearly u who has no idea, understanding, and true meaning ... kekeke  ...   >:D