PebHmong Discussion Forum
Creative Corner => Online Journal => Topic started by: Reporter on August 11, 2013, 10:32:21 PM
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I hadn't paid much attention to it. Not until I read a summary on Facebook about Panhia Vue's incident in Wisconsin. But I have been so disturbed by this news that at first I've shaken every time I thought about the incident. And I thought about it a lot each day. So shaken and so disturbed that I decided to go to the funeral in Eau Claire, WI, on August 1, 2013.
Before that, I had read a piece of news about her being killed by her husband Ying Xiong. But I took that to be normal news nowadays, since there have been constant news about domestic killings in our community.
But Panhia Vue's case took a sharp twist from the rest: neither of the two Hmong clans involved in her life did her funeral; while her corpse was rotting in the morgue, a mainstream women organization took over the funeral for the Hmong.
The news further stated that the Hmong women are not happy about how Panhia Vue's corpse was handled and all fingers had been pointed to the 18 Clan Council in Wisconsin for the failure to provide a traditional funeral for Panhia Vue's corpse. The women's position was: if Panhia Vue was a Hmong man, she would have received a proper traditional funeral; but since she's a Hmong woman, the male clan leaders have let her body rot without funeral attention.
The women wanted equality. They now question whether the 18 Clan Council should be allowed to operate its policies over the Hmong or if it should even continue to exist at all.
All of these made me realize the Hmong still need a lot of guidance in life--old and young, traditional and those that aren't.
In fact, both of the clans involved in Panhia Vue's case are traditional Hmong clans. Neither has converted to Christianity. We make the distinction in that respect, despite the fact that members of those clans have lived in America for over 30 years.
In these last few weeks, and today, too, I've been constantly bothered by this case. How could they let a body rot in the face of the rest of the world? Why was their conflict so strong as to make them completely insensitive to Panhia Vue's rotting corpse, no matter what kind of reputation she may have had while alive? Questions and just more questions without answers. Well, I have my answers but those are in my diary, not in this journal.
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This is organization of women Hmong or Mekas?
Kuv ib txwm xav hais tias yus ua neeg nyob yus yuav tsum xav txog txoj kev sib pab thiab txoj kev ua zoo. Feem ntau yus cia li act upon tej yam uas tsis raws kev raws cai. Lawv cov neeg paub dab qhuas thiab kev cai, lawv hais cai xwb. Muab xav los yeej tsis make sense thiab.
As to your question whether 18clan should hold policies, I am interesting to what they have to say about this and their perspectives of how the organization handled or took over this case? Mostly what's their claim on to why they reject taking responsibility?
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I hadn't paid much attention to it. Not until I read a summary on Facebook about Panhia Vue's incident in Wisconsin. But I have been so disturbed by this news that at first I've shaken every time I thought about the incident. And I thought about it a lot each day. So shaken and so disturbed that I decided to go to the funeral in Eau Claire, WI, on August 1, 2013.
Before that, I had read a piece of news about her being killed by her husband Ying Xiong. But I took that to be normal news nowadays, since there have been constant news about domestic killings in our community.
But Panhia Vue's case took a sharp twist from the rest: neither of the two Hmong clans involved in her life did her funeral; while her corpse was rotting in the morgue, a mainstream women organization took over the funeral for the Hmong.
The news further stated that the Hmong women are not happy about how Panhia Vue's corpse was handled and all fingers had been pointed to the 18 Clan Council in Wisconsin for the failure to provide a traditional funeral for Panhia Vue's corpse. The women's position was: if Panhia Vue was a Hmong man, she would have received a proper traditional funeral; but since she's a Hmong woman, the male clan leaders have let her body rot without funeral attention.
The women wanted equality. They now question whether the 18 Clan Council should be allowed to operate its policies over the Hmong or if it should even continue to exist at all.
All of these made me realize the Hmong still need a lot of guidance in life--old and young, traditional and those that aren't.
In fact, both of the clans involved in Panhia Vue's case are traditional Hmong clans. Neither has converted to Christianity. We make the distinction in that respect, despite the fact that members of those clans have lived in America for over 30 years.
In these last few weeks, and today, too, I've been constantly bothered by this case. How could they let a body rot in the face of the rest of the world? Why was their conflict so strong as to make them completely insensitive to Panhia Vue's rotting corpse, no matter what kind of reputation she may have had while alive? Questions and just more questions without answers. Well, I have my answers but those are in my diary, not in this journal.
she cheated on her first marriage and the man that kill her was her second marriage. infidelity is probably the cause i assume..
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she cheated on her first marriage and the man that kill her was her second marriage. infidelity is probably the cause i assume..
Perhaps that's the reason the Xiong denied the responsibility . According to Hmong culture, it's a valid cause.
Reporter, if this the case then, the women organization had done the right thing. Because it is gender discrimination . I agree that if the man is to cheat on the wife, a proper funeral would to be held for the man. I guess this is something that needs to be changed from Hmong tradition.
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The 18xeem is outdated and impotent. Its pointless to make policy if you do not have the authority to enforce them. At this point the 18xeem can only act in the form of cultural guidance. If I'm not mistaken, half of the clan leaders failed to even show up. This is a sad case of too much pride between the two families. There's plenty of fault to pass around.
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Tus neeg ua zoo yeej yuav tsum tau zoo xwb. Vim li cas, panhia, nws niam thiab txiv tsis kav ua nws lub funeral nas? Teb zaub thaum nws ua neeg nyob, nws tsis mooj nws niam thaib txiv kaws rov lus. Tu siab ntaus, vim hais tiag, teb laus yeej hlub teb memyuaj tas sis teb yaum lawm tus siab rau nws kaw siab kaw jus.
It's not how they died, but how they lived that matters.
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This is organization of women Hmong or Mekas?
Kuv ib txwm xav hais tias yus ua neeg nyob yus yuav tsum xav txog txoj kev sib pab thiab txoj kev ua zoo. Feem ntau yus cia li act upon tej yam uas tsis raws kev raws cai. Lawv cov neeg paub dab qhuas thiab kev cai, lawv hais cai xwb. Muab xav los yeej tsis make sense thiab.
As to your question whether 18clan should hold policies, I am interesting to what they have to say about this and their perspectives of how the organization handled or took over this case? Mostly what's their claim on to why they reject taking responsibility?
At first 18 Clan Council said the case was never brought to them so they had no right to deal with it. Then the Hmong women's group insisted that the Council make a decision regardless, since it was their policy that created the $1,200.00 conflict.
The Council realized the American organization has taken over the corpse. But it still issued an order that the Xiongs pay the Vues $1, 200.00 for "kho ntsej kho muag" just because their Xiong killed the Vue.
The organization that took over the corpse is American but it worked with some Hmong women in this case.
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she cheated on her first marriage and the man that kill her was her second marriage. infidelity is probably the cause i assume..
Infidelity caused her death. But was it the cause of her funeral conflict? Maybe, huh?
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Perhaps that's the reason the Xiong denied the responsibility . According to Hmong culture, it's a valid cause.
Reporter, if this the case then, the women organization had done the right thing. Because it is gender discrimination . I agree that if the man is to cheat on the wife, a proper funeral would to be held for the man. I guess this is something that needs to be changed from Hmong tradition.
I believe gender has something to do with it.
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Whether she cheated or not, they were not legally divorced by the american/hmong people. Therefore, he was still her legal husband and is responsible for her burial. Then, I also questioned her OWN family, how can they let her rott knowing that the husband's side is refusing to take responsibility . And why did it took the 18xeem so long to come up with a resolution? I questioned myself of the 18xeem actions because I felt that their purpose was to serve as a mediators and try to reticfy such situation. To me, she was very little value to everyone. They probably judged her by her past actions and didn't give a crap about how long she would be sitting in the morgue.
The Hmong women in WI said the leadership was probably not capable of acting under the circumstances.
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The 18xeem is outdated and impotent. Its pointless to make policy if you do not have the authority to enforce them. At this point the 18xeem can only act in the form of cultural guidance. If I'm not mistaken, half of the clan leaders failed to even show up. This is a sad case of too much pride between the two families. There's plenty of fault to pass around.
Right. I agree.
I do sympathize with the Council's reps. They really have no authority over the community except those who have chosen them to mediate issues. Yet the Council acts like it is the authority of the entire Hmong community in everything. Yet is has no power to enforce anything, not even its own policy. Let's see how it will make the Xiongs pay the Vue the $1,200.00 that has been ordered.
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Yes, too much time has passed by with people pointing fingers that had left a body unclaimed in a morgue. :-[
I made one statement on Facebook: Zoo li lawv tsis txhawj txog nws lub cev li yom.
What were those fights for if they weren't going to help the corpse?
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Tus neeg ua zoo yeej yuav tsum tau zoo xwb. Vim li cas, panhia, nws niam thiab txiv tsis kav ua nws lub funeral nas? Teb zaub thaum nws ua neeg nyob, nws tsis mooj nws niam thaib txiv kaws rov lus. Tu siab ntaus, vim hais tiag, teb laus yeej hlub teb memyuaj tas sis teb yaum lawm tus siab rau nws kaw siab kaw jus.
It's not how they died, but how they lived that matters.
The Vues' only reason for not taking over the funeral was spiritual fear: nws yog Hmoob Xyooj dab Hmoob Xyooj neeg lawm, yog Hmoob Vwj ua nws lub ntees ces Hmoob Vwj yuav puas tiam no thiab lwm tsheej tiam yau ntxiv thiab.
So I was told.
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Kuv xav mas yuav thau yog tus husband side ua dab ua qhua. Vim yog lawm dab yog lawv nyab lawm. Tsev Hmooob xeem Xyooj yuav be responsible to this, But lawv tsis ua los Tsev Xeem Vwj Ua los tsis ua cas. Yuav tsis txaus luaj twg. Tsuas tu siab tias. Yuav luag muam ib zaug mus ua poj ua sev. Yuav saib tsis tau yus ua neej ua tsa. Lam tua neeg Vov nroj ntsuab. Muaj qhov loj qhov yau los cas tsis hais rau kwv rau tij, rau neej rau tsa.
but afterall tsev xeem Xyooj thiab Vwj nos..TSIS MUAJ IB TUG KHOV KIAG! tib cov duav tuag es xwb! NOJ TAU HAIS TSIS TAU! nkim mos dhau lawm!
yog kuv no ntshe kuv yuav txaj muag ua lawv kwv lawv tij...
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exactly......b ecause Neeg ruam tsis ntse ces zoo li no..
elders been through all this and seen this type of situation happens back in the days. They're so afraid for situation like this to happen again. Some of them setup the traditional wedding with a system of RAU NCO rau Nus Tij Nus Npaws! if something is to happen and the parents are no longer living. They are responsible to discuss with you about your hardships in marriage as parents and protect you. Because many married hmong women were kinda stupid or naive and young at the time and so is the husband. Tau tu siab ntev ces zoo hos, tau tu siab luv ces mas ncaws thiab Pots and pans flying every where everyday xwb.
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depends on the situation! if these folks can't use their good judgement then they're no better themselves to even take that Rau nco from the wedding of day 1!
The problem isn't going to fix itself if somebody isn't going to do something about it. Just like a leaking pipe..
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There could be issue where she is wrong too..
i suggest women respect themselves and value themselves; therefore, others will respect you..
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How sad.
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Can't read all of your hmoob but I agree with you in the fact that NO ONE (not even on the Vue side) could speak up for her. Be the voice for her and have their demands. When you can't speak up, people will eventually step all over you. And when you allow someone to do this to your OWN person, why should the world care? The rest of the people will just turn a blind eye, because tsis yog lawv tus neeg.
Li ko es tog twg los thiaj kav liam lawm mas. Hmoob Vwj los hais tias "nws mus ua nej neeg, nej dab lawm; tsis yog peb tus neeg lawm." Hmoog Xyooj los hais tias, "Nws yog nej roj, nej ntshav; tsis yog peb yug; tsis yog peb tus neeg."
Imagine what else the rest of world could be saying. You are right.
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exactly......because Neeg ruam tsis ntse ces zoo li no..
elders been through all this and seen this type of situation happens back in the days. They're so afraid for situation like this to happen again. Some of them setup the traditional wedding with a system of RAU NCO rau Nus Tij Nus Npaws! if something is to happen and the parents are no longer living. They are responsible to discuss with you about your hardships in marriage as parents and protect you. Because many married hmong women were kinda stupid or naive and young at the time and so is the husband. Tau tu siab ntev ces zoo hos, tau tu siab luv ces mas ncaws thiab Pots and pans flying every where everyday xwb.
Thiab ncaws poj niam thiab.
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i recently learned that both the xiong and vue clans did not want to do her funeral because when someone dies so horribly like she did, it is bad omen to the people that performs the funeral. and that in laos, people usually did not do (the usual hmong) funerals for people who were murdered or tortured to death...
i wanted to find out more but i was too scared to ask more...
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The only problem is, do these people take their role serious when that time comes? Or are they just going to tell her to go back home and ua siab ntev. Because I've seen and hear it over and over again with the hmong community. NO one wants to lose face. They are afraid to cause a drama or animosity between two clans.
They don't want to solve your problems, so they tell you to lengthen your heart (be patient). That's just to end your request for them to help you solve your problems.
Easy, huh? But then who among our elders are trained psychologists that can listen to and treat our marital discords?
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depends on the situation! if these folks can't use their good judgement then they're no better themselves to even take that Rau nco from the wedding of day 1!
The problem isn't going to fix itself if somebody isn't going to do something about it. Just like a leaking pipe..
Yes, someone must take responsibility to fix the pipe. Or else it won't be fixed.
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i recently learned that both the xiong and vue clans did not want to do her funeral because when someone dies so horribly like she did, it is bad omen to the people that performs the funeral. and that in laos, people usually did not do (the usual hmong) funerals for people who were murdered or tortured to death...
i wanted to find out more but i was too scared to ask more...
Really? I didn't know that. How about making the murderer to the funeral, since he killed her and now must take all consequences following that killing?
Ask more and come to tell us all of it please.
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There could be issue where she is wrong too..
i suggest women respect themselves and value themselves; therefore, others will respect you..
I have a current client whose wife is cheating and putting a restraining order on him. He is still not divorcing her culturally. He says if she ever dies, he won't do her funeral; nor will her relatives, since she's still his wife. "Let the Americans do it for her," he says.
This trend is growing. I've been telling people that--now that we know someone else will take care of our dead, we will let them do so in order to avoid costs.
I've witnessed past cases where someone with life insurance would die and the beneficiaries would keep all of the life insurance money and won't use it to take care of the dead's funeral. The respective relatives have had to take care of it. Then they outcast the beneficiaries. ..don't be surprised if you come upon people without families or relatives and friends in our community.
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How sad.
Very, to the point that I even melt emotionally with the idea that a body is being left to rot on American civilian soil. I'd understand it if she was killed in a war and no one found her body to bury. But this is not that kind of thing.
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I'll be honest. The clan responsible for the funeral of Panhia is the Xiongs. She was married legally and so they should take full responsibility . Any unbiased elder will agree with me on this topic. If the Xiongs feel they cannot provide her the funeral then they should let the Vues know. The Vues and Xiongs are playing politics, but what they do not care about is how the children feels and how a person has died while another is in prison. This is a loss loss situation and both need to get their acts together or this reputation will be shame. Zoo heev ua nws tus tub decide to claim nws niam lub cev. Regardless of the outcome, I hope we as the whole community will learn from this situation and overcome it.
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Very, to the point that I even melt emotionally with the idea that a body is being left to rot on American civilian soil. I'd understand it if she was killed in a war and no one found her body to bury. But this is not that kind of thing.
Well, if no one else wants to give her a proper burial, the last two people who should, should be her birth parents, especially her mother. I could never let someone be responsible for my daughters if I knew that they were not going to do anything about it. The mother gave life to this girl. It is her rightful duty, as her mother, to give her a proper burial. Take away the stupid cultures and religions, and you'll find that it is just the right thing to do as a human being. In my eyes, her mother failed her.
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I'll be honest. The clan responsible for the funeral of Panhia is the Xiongs. She was married legally and so they should take full responsibility . Any unbiased elder will agree with me on this topic. If the Xiongs feel they cannot provide her the funeral then they should let the Vues know. The Vues and Xiongs are playing politics, but what they do not care about is how the children feels and how a person has died while another is in prison. This is a loss loss situation and both need to get their acts together or this reputation will be shame. Zoo heev ua nws tus tub decide to claim nws niam lub cev. Regardless of the outcome, I hope we as the whole community will learn from this situation and overcome it.
You are right. The Xiongs did not deny that she was their person and spirit already. What they didn't like was the $1,200.00 nyiaj kho ntsej kho muag. That's what started the whole conflict. And that's how the women there got the 18 Clan Council into the fray.
The son and the American women organization claimed the body together because the son just cried and cried to the organization for help. He is only 20 years old and doesn't know what to do.
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Well, if no one else wants to give her a proper burial, the last two people who should, should be her birth parents, especially her mother. I could never let someone be responsible for my daughters if I knew that they were not going to do anything about it. The mother gave life to this girl. It is her rightful duty, as her mother, to give her a proper burial. Take away the stupid cultures and religions, and you'll find that it is just the right thing to do as a human being. In my eyes, her mother failed her.
I agree with you. My daughter is my life. How were her parents able to ignore her corpse and let it rot like that?
But you know how the Hmong operate on daughters. On sons, it's a different thing. But on daughters? The parents are able to detach her completely from their lives somehow.
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@lilly.. its only those who are tub sab tub nyiag and theygot killed for stealing..thos e they can still perform,but brought through the window or thos qhov tsev nqa los xwb quietly without a word as the elders would say because it'll be a bad omen..
i recently learned that both the xiong and vue clans did not want to do her funeral because when someone dies so horribly like she did, it is bad omen to the people that performs the funeral. and that in laos, people usually did not do (the usual hmong) funerals for people who were murdered or tortured to death...
i wanted to find out more but i was too scared to ask more...
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@lilly.. its only those who are tub sab tub nyiag and theygot killed for stealing..thos e they can still perform,but brought through the window or thos qhov tsev nqa los xwb quietly without a word as the elders would say because it'll be a bad omen..
Oh, OK.
anyway, i learned more that usually people that die very badly they don't do funerals for and usually they just put them under the ground and do this ritual thing: burn some seeds until the seeds turn to ash or something and tell the deceased the only way the deceased can come back to life is if those seeds can turn back to their original unburnt form. and then i heard a contradictory story that says, for people that die badly like panhia, the relatives could have done the funeral for... except they needed to ask the muam phauj to tuaj muab nws "ntshaws"? does anyone know about this? i don't get this...
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I will help clear some misunderstandi ng for you guys. When a person is burnt, they need to do a cleaning ritual as part of the neej ritual to wash the burnt person so she can go on to meet her ancestors. If they do not do the cleaning ritual then her burnt body will not be recognize by her ancestors. How do I know? My cousins died in a house fire and that was what they had to do. Muam phauj is only to break curses such as yangs cannot eat the heart or father cannot sleep with DIL kinda of thing.
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I will help clear some misunderstandi ng for you guys. When a person is burnt, they need to do a cleaning ritual as part of the neej ritual to wash the burnt person so she can go on to meet her ancestors. If they do not do the cleaning ritual then her burnt body will not be recognize by her ancestors. How do I know? My cousins died in a house fire and that was what they had to do. Muam phauj is only to break curses such as yangs cannot eat the heart or father cannot sleep with DIL kinda of thing.
thanks.
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I will help clear some misunderstandi ng for you guys. When a person is burnt, they need to do a cleaning ritual as part of the neej ritual to wash the burnt person so she can go on to meet her ancestors. If they do not do the cleaning ritual then her burnt body will not be recognize by her ancestors. How do I know? My cousins died in a house fire and that was what they had to do. Muam phauj is only to break curses such as yangs cannot eat the heart or father cannot sleep with DIL kinda of thing.
Thanks.
And muam phauj also curses, not just de-curses. lol
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Oh, OK.
anyway, i learned more that usually people that die very badly they don't do funerals for and usually they just put them under the ground and do this ritual thing: burn some seeds until the seeds turn to ash or something and tell the deceased the only way the deceased can come back to life is if those seeds can turn back to their original unburnt form. and then i heard a contradictory story that says, for people that die badly like panhia, the relatives could have done the funeral for... except they needed to ask the muam phauj to tuaj muab nws "ntshaws"? does anyone know about this? i don't get this...
Tsawm.
Thanks for the info.
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I am saddened by this Panhia Vue incident, so saddened that I now fear such thing will happen again and I've come to realize that similar things have happened in our community before. I had been warned of this kind of thing before, but I didn't quite believe the warning. Now I know.
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R,
You're making too big a deal out of this. Panhia's case isn't the only one where the state took over the body. I'm very surprised that you're only hearing for the first time about Hmong corpses that nobody came to claim for a proper funeral. What it boils down to is money. If Panhia had insurance then either side could've given her a funeral. I've known many cases where the deceased (man or woman) was left to the state. Reasons: no money for funeral, and was detached from family. It seems you're concerned because Vue's death was the result of domestic violence and now you're trying to extend that blame to everything else. BTW, this kind of stuff happens all the time in mainstream. Welcome to America!
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R,
You're making too big a deal out of this. Panhia's case isn't the only one where the state took over the body. I'm very surprised that you're only hearing for the first time about Hmong corpses that nobody came to claim for a proper funeral. What it boils down to is money. If Panhia had insurance then either side could've given her a funeral. I've known many cases where the deceased (man or woman) was left to the state. Reasons: no money for funeral, and was detached from family. It seems you're concerned because Vue's death was the result of domestic violence and now you're trying to extend that blame to everything else. BTW, this kind of stuff happens all the time in mainstream. Welcome to America!
I never said it was the first in America. I said this is the first Hmong case that gets out there. And I know there are many similar conflicts in our community except that none so far has gotten out of hands into the mainstream.
I'm not blaming anything. I'm disturbed and so I'm venting.
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I never said it was the first in America. I said this is the first Hmong case that gets out there. And I know there are many similar conflicts in our community except that none so far has gotten out of hands into the mainstream.
I'm not blaming anything. I'm disturbed and so I'm venting.
So are you more disturbed that it's gone to mainstream and will make the Hmong people look bad as a whole? That is very contradicting to me when many of you have always made it clear that you want to bring awareness. Well, awareness means getting it out there into mainstream.
You also have to remember that right now there is a crusade in America to castrate men. So of course a case like this is going to make headlines.
Personally, I'm more disturbed about that case where Tou Pao Hang was murdered, decapitated, dismembered, then hidden between cushions in a basement by another Hmong man. Not to mention how his head was found in a bucket in the trunk of his assailant.
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she cheated on her first marriage and the man that kill her was her second marriage. infidelity is probably the cause i assume..
[/quote]are you sure? Where did u get this info? Please don't spread rumors. Even if she did cheat its not reason enough to kill her.
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So are you more disturbed that it's gone to mainstream and will make the Hmong people look bad as a whole? That is very contradicting to me when many of you have always made it clear that you want to bring awareness. Well, awareness means getting it out there into mainstream.
You also have to remember that right now there is a crusade in America to castrate men. So of course a case like this is going to make headlines.
Personally, I'm more disturbed about that case where Tou Pao Hang was murdered, decapitated, dismembered, then hidden between cushions in a basement by another Hmong man. Not to mention how his head was found in a bucket in the trunk of his assailant.
A corpse left to rot doesn't disturb you? It's not so much that it gets to the mainstream; it's that it's letting it rot and getting to the mainstream on that.
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A corpse left to rot doesn't disturb you? It's not so much that it gets to the mainstream; it's that it's letting it rot and getting to the mainstream on that.
Many of you are totally misunderstandi ng the situation and using it to fuel your own agenda on gender inequality. In this video it is obvious that Vue's male relatives care about her. Regarding the issue that her body was in the morgue, their intentions were to seek Hmong justice for her by making the Xiong pay for her funeral. The activists trying to spin this into a gender inequality issue is only fueling things when instead, they should back Vue's relatives and place accountability on the Xiong (if in fact Vue did not sever ties with them). The reason why Hmong Women Activists don't receive a lot of support is NOT because the Hmong overlook women's rights. It's because the Hmong Women don't know how to use the Hmong culture to their advantage. They don't understand where their strength is. :idiot2: It's just like American law. Those who understand it best always get their way. Those who don't are only fighting hard but not smart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13RoLHCZRo#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13RoLHCZRo#ws)
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I know you are guessing a lot. I've seen you guessing from the distance a lot in other posts and replies, too.
You are missing the point here. The women in WI are in support of the Vues; they have worked hard to get the Xiongs to be responsible for Panhia's funeral. But on top of that they are outraged about how 18 Clan Council handled this. And you know 18 Clan Council is male-driven. That's the inequality part comes in.
I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. It's too clear that either the Vues or the Xiongs should be responsible for her funeral. By tradition, the Xiongs would be; but if the Xiongs aren't able to handle it, then the Vues would be and maybe should. Too clear. But I'm disturbed that the Hmong are able to let her body rot in the morque in this manner. This is not a case where she was killed in the woods or somewhere during warfare and couldn't be found or where she's drowned and her body could not be recovered for a long time.
Many of you are totally misunderstandi ng the situation and using it to fuel your own agenda on gender inequality. In this video it is obvious that Vue's male relatives care about her. Regarding the issue that her body was in the morgue, their intentions were to seek Hmong justice for her by making the Xiong pay for her funeral. The activists trying to spin this into a gender inequality issue is only fueling things when instead, they should back Vue's relatives and place accountability on the Xiong (if in fact Vue did not sever ties with them). The reason why Hmong Women Activists don't receive a lot of support is NOT because the Hmong overlook women's rights. It's because the Hmong Women don't know how to use the Hmong culture to their advantage. They don't understand where their strength is. :idiot2: It's just like American law. Those who understand it best always get their way. Those who don't are only fighting hard but not smart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13RoLHCZRo#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X13RoLHCZRo#ws)
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I know you are guessing a lot. I've seen you guessing from the distance a lot in other posts and replies, too.
You are missing the point here. The women in WI are in support of the Vues; they have worked hard to get the Xiongs to be responsible for Panhia's funeral. But on top of that they are outraged about how 18 Clan Council handled this. And you know 18 Clan Council is male-driven. That's the inequality part comes in.
I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. It's too clear that either the Vues or the Xiongs should be responsible for her funeral. By tradition, the Xiongs would be; but if the Xiongs aren't able to handle it, then the Vues would be and maybe should. Too clear. But I'm disturbed that the Hmong are able to let her body rot in the morque in this manner. This is not a case where she was killed in the woods or somewhere during warfare and couldn't be found or where she's drowned and her body could not be recovered for a long time.
Why be upset at 18 Xeem if both clans agreed to seek their mediation? :idiot2: Plus, y'all getting excited over an organization that can't realistically enforce anything. For that you get a double :idiot2: :idiot2:
Who is guessing at anything? If I was merely guessing then none of you would be so fueled up by my responses. Obviously, I've hit upon some truths.
In this great country that so many of you have passionately and more like "conveniently" brought up when it suits you, let me "conveniently" remind all of you that neither clan has to bear responsibiliti es at all if they don't want to - that is the great thing about this country. The body goes unclaimed and then is in the possession of the state. It will get what is called a "pauper's burial". Different states may have different laws and guidelines about this.
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Why be upset at 18 Xeem if both clans agreed to seek their mediation? :idiot2: Plus, y'all getting excited over an organization that can't realistically enforce anything. For that you get a double :idiot2: :idiot2:
Who is guessing at anything? If I was merely guessing then none of you would be so fueled up by my responses. Obviously, I've hit upon some truths.
In this great country that so many of you have passionately and more like "conveniently" brought up when it suits you, let me "conveniently" remind all of you that neither clan has to bear responsibiliti es at all if they don't want to - that is the great thing about this country. The body goes unclaimed and then is in the possession of the state. It will get what is called a "pauper's burial". Different states may have different laws and guidelines about this.
I'll say it again: you are guessing from the distance.
We are all talking about our Hmong traditions and things are done according to what the leading OGs have always known how. You don't know Hmong traditions and so you are guessing about what we are talking about without knowing how it all plays out.
Your comments aren't driving us nuts. We could just ignore you. But I'm trying to educate you. I'm just saying you are missing the point about this whole thing the Hmong ways. All this time and you aren't even aware we are talking about Hmong traditions.