PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Debate Central => Topic started by: bulbasaur on January 23, 2014, 09:39:56 PM
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There are problems with "Obamacare," but universal healthcare is a good thing.
I was out with some friends and cousins, and the topic came up. Surprisingly, they were all against universal healthcare. Strangely enough, a good number of them worked in the medical field. At first, I thought maybe they disagreed on it because of principle, smaller government. However, as the discussion continued, it became apparent that they were simply misinformed. I originally avoided the debate since I was the only dissenting view. There was no need to engage in a debate with people I haven't seen in a long time. Also, I was the more informed and the better debater, so it wouldn't even be fair. But then, like good medical professionals, they noticed my broken finger...
They noticed my broken finger, but they didn't know that I broke it while I was abroad. They were all guessing how much it cost me. $500 to $5000. It became a game. When I told them it cost me less than $20,, they were shocked. They then proceeded to try to find something wrong with the system, such as wait time, appointments, etc. However, when I told them that I simply walked in, no appointment, 10 minute wait, got treated, got medication, a rehab schedule with a personal trainer, and follow-ups with the doctor, it really blew their minds. All of their pre-conceptions about universal healthcare was wrong.
Granted, if I needed surgery, I might have needed to wait and pay more. I am not sure about the wait, but I am pretty sure the cost would have been cheaper.
Virtually every country with universal healthcare laughs at the American system. Although it is true that some of the best hospitals, doctors, medical techniques, etc. are in America, it doesn't mean much when people do not have access to it.
People should be mindful of facts vs. pre-conceptions.
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give it enough time and Americans will fight for this also. O0
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I would love universal healthcare. Having it, I would be able to focus on jobs that are more fun and not have to worry about healthcare. If I want to be a gardener, I would still have health insurance. Universal healthcare will also allow the government to control and reduce the cost of healthcare. The US healthcare about the moment is out of control and it will eventually get to a point where no one can afford health insurance and something has to give.
At the moment, my insurance premium costs $800/month and my rent is $600. That means it costs about $10,000 a year for health insurance for me. I only visit the doctor once or twice a year and never cost more than $1,000.
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Its a double edge sword. Ideally, giving everybody healthcare would make sense, since a healthy population is a more productive one. The problem is that it can be a costly system to maintain and medical services could be diminished if not executed properly.
But overall, I still think its better than what we have.
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Its a double edge sword. Ideally, giving everybody healthcare would make sense, since a healthy population is a more productive one. The problem is that it can be a costly system to maintain and medical services could be diminished if not executed properly.
But overall, I still think its better than what we have.
I don't really see why it is a double edge sword. Canada get to do it just fine. Are we special that we can't do it?
Now, you may say no money, the drug companies are just going to give up. That's a legit concern but we will have to see about that.
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I don't really see why it is a double edge sword. Canada get to do it just fine. Are we special that we can't do it?
Now, you may say no money, the drug companies are just going to give up. That's a legit concern but we will have to see about that.
Don't they pay pretty hefty taxes? I recall reading it somewhere, also the difference between number of kids in the family doesn't matter as much. A couple with no kids will pay close to a family of four.
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Don't they pay pretty hefty taxes? I recall reading it somewhere, also the difference between number of kids in the family doesn't matter as much. A couple with no kids will pay close to a family of four.
Yeah I think they pay as much as 50%-60%. But they seems fine with it. I live in the US and I pay 40%. It's OK for me but I could really use that money for a new car. The problem in the US is that our tax money is used wrongly. For example, fighting two wars.
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What you guys want is not universal healthcare but a free government runs healthcare like third world nations. Laos has a free government hospital. There's limited beds so first come first serve. If you don't have money to bribe them for a bed then you will die while waiting. The doctors work for the government so time is not money. They can take their sweet time eating lunch. Take a look at France for example. Healthcare is FREE, but income tax is 55%. Most people don't work because they are on welfare; so many people living in a small apartment; they shower once a week because water is too expensive; most don't own a car; the majority of the people have never gone eat out; Yes, they have free healthcare, but the waiting is very long. If you die while waiting, you cannot sue the doctors. My aunt died from kidney failure. There was a match but she must wait 3 months for the operation and she died before her scheduled date. This would not have happened in America. I love my private healthcare. Yes, it's expensive, but my life is worth it. After all, you got what you paid for.
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How many poor middle class families can afford to pay the deductible under Obamacare???? $6,000 per individual and $12,000 per family. Only dumb people would pay a premium on a healthcare they cannot afford to use.
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Wow, misconceptions abound. I guess it's not surprising.
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Everybody should have Healthcare. However, we can't say that what works in other countries will work for Americans simply because our mentality and attitude is different. My co-worker, whose sister is a professional basketball player in Italy, said that the hospitals there are unclean and not only that but don't administer certain things like shots. What they do is hand out the syringe with the medication and the people have to give themselves their own shots at home. How many Americans are ready to administer their own medical care without later suing the medical industry? Nobody ever admits that Americans and their trial lawyers are just waiting for that one incident to cash in. This is why many things that work in other countries do not work here.
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And I heard you also had to do your own heart surgery. It's called the 2/3 Compromise. :idiot2:
Everybody should have Healthcare. However, we can't say that what works in other countries will work for Americans simply because our mentality and attitude is different. My co-worker, whose sister is a professional basketball player in Italy, said that the hospitals there are unclean and not only that but don't administer certain things like shots. What they do is hand out the syringe with the medication and the people have to give themselves their own shots at home. How many Americans are ready to administer their own medical care without later suing the medical industry? Nobody ever admits that Americans and their trial lawyers are just waiting for that one incident to cash in. This is why many things that work in other countries do not work here.
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And I heard you also had to do your own heart surgery. It's called the 2/3 Compromise. :idiot2:
You have no grasp of reality. -----> Yep, all the signs of a person that has no responsibility over anybody but himself. You're entitled to express yourself based on your limited experience in life.
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I am a compromising person. How about 2/3? I personally prefer 3/5, but that may not be reality enough for you. :2funny:
You have no grasp of reality. -----> Yep, all the signs of a person that has no responsibility over anybody but himself. You're entitled to express yourself based on your limited experience in life.
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So you're saying that my co-worker's sister has no validity in her complaints about the healthcare system in Italy?
Your personal hatred of me should have no influence on my first response in this thread. My comment wasn't to thwart your little topic. It was simply to express a statement I got from a conversation with my co-worker. The problem with you is that you got issues with me but you're too cowardly to admit it. That's why you think everything I say is a personal attack against your intelligence or something. :idiot2:
I'll clear things up. I already know you're stupid. I don't need to argue about that. I'm simply just saying this is what I heard from a co-worker. If you have problems then locate her sister in Italy and debate with her about Italy's healthcare system. :2funny:
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I simply didn't want to embarrass you, but since you asked for it...
Did I say I hate you? Did I take it as a personal attack? All I was saying that people have misconceptions . On the other hand, you are the one who is always name-calling. You somehow think name-calling makes your point stronger. Or, maybe you think it makes you smarter by calling others stupid.
I am saying that you have no validity. You have shown an inability to process information. I really don't mean that in a bad way; it's simply true. Even when you are corrected, you ignore it. For example, it's the 3/5 Compromise, not the 2/3 Compromise. You refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong on a fact. Because you refuse to acknowledge a fact and the fact that you were wrong, everything you say has no validity. In fact, "you're too cowardly to admit it."
Moreover, you don't understand what misconceptions are. I suggest a dictionary.
So you're saying that my co-worker's sister has no validity in her complaints about the healthcare system in Italy?
Your personal hatred of me should have no influence on my first response in this thread. My comment wasn't to thwart your little topic. It was simply to express a statement I got from a conversation with my co-worker. The problem with you is that you got issues with me but you're too cowardly to admit it. That's why you think everything I say is a personal attack against your intelligence or something. :idiot2:
I'll clear things up. I already know you're stupid. I don't need to argue about that. I'm simply just saying this is what I heard from a co-worker. If you have problems then locate her sister in Italy and debate with her about Italy's healthcare system. :2funny:
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You know, not everything has to be so preachy and philosophical; it comes off as pseudo-preachy and pseudo-philosophical. You should really try to balance your life between the theory and the practical. It'll make you say more intelligent, not just pseudo-intelligent. I know you are going to take this as an insult, but I am actually trying to help you.
For example...
1. You mentioned the economics a few times, but you fail to actually explain it. Your explanation for the economics is about crocodile brain neuroscience. Really? People aren't going to take that seriously. For economics, you should have simply pointed out that implementing universal healthcare in America has a huge challenge because of the heath insurance industry. The health insurance industry employs thousands and is a billion dollar industry that backs politicians. Implementing comprehensive universal healthcare means politicians risking their jobs and thousands losing theirs.
2. You need to get over your data analysis. It's usually wrong. Even when you provide the numbers, the result doesn't support you. In this case, you are talking about data, but you have no data to analyze. When you provide numbers, you have to show that your interpretation of the data is correct.
I know you're going to be all offended and stuff, but oh well. If you want your point to make sense, you have to make it make sense. You're throwing out adages and metaphors, and many times, they don't really connect. Remember "Switch and Bait?" Anyways, take it or leave it...you're probably going to leave it.
You cannot fix a system that is economically broken with another system that is even more economically broken. The rationale here is due to how human being work...neurosc ience shows that human being makes their most important decision based upon the crocodile brain. Obama administration is using game theory, EI and high dimensional data analysis to manipulate all of simpletons who thinks you are so educated. When the smart is outsmart, they don't even see it coming...it's so obvious to the outside watching what is going on except the one the trick is being played on. Jokes on us America and it is no laughing matter.
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There you go. All upset. Refusing to acknowledge any wrong doing.
1. You are the one who does personal attacks, name calls, profanity. The more you do it, the more it proves my point.
2. You often get the facts and terminology wrong. For example, Switch and Bait. Should I list more? In this very thread, it is easy to see the pseudo-information you are providing. For example, "Obama administration is using game theory, EI and high dimensional data analysis to manipulate all of simpletons who thinks you are so educated."
I'll await for you to rebut with more insults. Unfortunately, you still haven't learned that insulting others doesn't make you right.
B, why would I be offended by you? I mean that's all you do is TROLL. What I am amuse is how butt-hurt you are. It's OK B, if it makes you feel better, you won B...yes, you won a debate on PH where I used real math and science and you used jack-shit. Winner, winner, chicken dinner! 3 cheers for B! Yey!
Secondly, the economic question...wel l there's this really powerful tool called Google and I mean it's powerful. This tool indexes everything that is thrown on the Internet that is not private, and when you ask Google a question, it'll provide you with valuable sources. Try asking Google what is economics...th en try more complex queries like universal healthcare and economics. I would write you another synopsis in this post but it's somewhere in PH. If you can't find it on PH, I'm sure you'll find it on Google - Google knows like everything.
Also, if you are going to debate me, try to debate me and not talk about other butt-hurt post. If you disagree with me, just ask the millions of working Americans if their healthcare benefit went up or down...and we are just phase 1 of obamacare...Ne edless to say the proof is in the pudding. I think there is an implication here...your ass don't pay real healthcare...w hy else would you not know this already. :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: Government assistance or government benefits must be nice... I do envy your zero cost benefits I help contribute to.
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There are problems with "Obamacare," but universal healthcare is a good thing.
I was out with some friends and cousins, and the topic came up. Surprisingly, they were all against universal healthcare. Strangely enough, a good number of them worked in the medical field. At first, I thought maybe they disagreed on it because of principle, smaller government. However, as the discussion continued, it became apparent that they were simply misinformed. I originally avoided the debate since I was the only dissenting view. There was no need to engage in a debate with people I haven't seen in a long time. Also, I was the more informed and the better debater, so it wouldn't even be fair. But then, like good medical professionals, they noticed my broken finger...
They noticed my broken finger, but they didn't know that I broke it while I was abroad. They were all guessing how much it cost me. $500 to $5000. It became a game. When I told them it cost me less than $20,, they were shocked. They then proceeded to try to find something wrong with the system, such as wait time, appointments, etc. However, when I told them that I simply walked in, no appointment, 10 minute wait, got treated, got medication, a rehab schedule with a personal trainer, and follow-ups with the doctor, it really blew their minds. All of their pre-conceptions about universal healthcare was wrong.
Granted, if I needed surgery, I might have needed to wait and pay more. I am not sure about the wait, but I am pretty sure the cost would have been cheaper.
Virtually every country with universal healthcare laughs at the American system. Although it is true that some of the best hospitals, doctors, medical techniques, etc. are in America, it doesn't mean much when people do not have access to it.
People should be mindful of facts vs. pre-conceptions.
Universal healthcare if run correctly is good... Hong Kong and Singapore for example. But the U.S. gov't healthcare will never be good. They can't even run a freakin website... how on earth are they going to run a universal healthcare system and make it good? ACA (aka ObamaCare) is welfare for health... It's never going to bring cost down. Where were you when you broke your finger and got it fix?
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I was in China. Crazy huh? Who would have guessed. Afterwards, I checked up on worldwide healthcare plans. China was in the top 10. It's crazy, but after what I have seen, it's true. I had to get stitches in the States about 10 years ago. I had to wait 8 hours, and it cost $1500.
Universal healthcare in the States is difficult because of the heath insurance industry. It's a billion dollar business with political ties, and they employ thousands of people. Even if the government was bold enough to shut down the industry and ruin thousands of jobs, the American public doesn't even have a good understanding of universal healthcare to even want it.
"Obamacare" won't really help a lot of people. At best, it might just be the first step to a long slow change...which might be a good thing.
Universal healthcare if run correctly is good... Hong Kong and Singapore for example. But the U.S. gov't healthcare will never be good. They can't even run a freakin website... how on earth are they going to run a universal healthcare system and make it good? ACA (aka ObamaCare) is welfare for health... It's never going to bring cost down. Where were you when you broke your finger and got it fix?
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Do you realize you do this all the time? You are the one who actually agrees with me because I said it first. You need to re-read the original post. :idiot2:
As always, reading comprehension is important.
LOL...You trash talking me and you agree with me? On the internet we call them trolls.
I'm sorta done with you as a troll...if you did not notice.
(http://www.vetanswers.com.au/assets/dont-feed-the-trolls.jpeg)
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I don't know why you're always upset. My guess is that it is ego. Ego compels people to always make things personal. Ego compels people to constantly list their achievements regardless if those achievements are even real. Ego compels people to always compete, even in non-competitive settings. For example, look at your very post. Instead of talking about the healthcare system, you listed your psuedo-achievements...as if that makes you correct. What you wrote isn't even relevant. It's so irrevelant that this very response to you isn't about the healthcare system; it's about you. Ego.
Like I said, you would take it as an insult.
You read about healthcare on the news. I work in the healthcare, biotech and medical device. You read about healthcare and reform. I interpret laws and regulation, and write corporate policy to guide multinational companies. You talk about science. I construct design of experiments to prove out manufacturing systems, instruments, and etc... to bring out healthcare devices. You read about it like history...I contribute to history directly. Why in duck would I be upset? :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
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If Obamacare is so great, why does he keep delaying some of his mandates?
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You read about healthcare on the news. I work in the healthcare, biotech and medical device. You read about healthcare and reform. I interpret laws and regulation, and write corporate policy to guide multinational companies. You talk about science. I construct design of experiments to prove out manufacturing systems, instruments, and etc... to bring out healthcare devices. You read about it like history...I contribute to history directly. Why in duck would I be upset? :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
This is too funny! :2funny: Bulba talks out of his a.ss all the time. Nothing he says has anything to do with real experience about the topic. If he wants to brag that he can read text, research papers and whatnot then I'll give him props for that.
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Do you realize you do this all the time? You are the one who actually agrees with me because I said it first. You need to re-read the original post. :idiot2:
As always, reading comprehension is important.
Oh, we know you're an expert at that. It's the only thing you have going for you but it doesn't fly with those in the actual industry or have the experience. :2funny:
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I am not the one who couldn't comprehend the difference between the 2/3 Compromise and the 3/5 Compromise. You are so upset that you can't even admit your mistake. If your facts are wrong, then what makes you believe that your views, which are based on false premises, are correct? :idiot2:
Like a certain someone else on these threads...list ing your pseudo-credentials doesn't support your arguments. :idiot2:
Oh, we know you're an expert at that. It's the only thing you have going for you but it doesn't fly with those in the actual industry or have the experience. :2funny:
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I am not the one who couldn't comprehend the difference between the 2/3 Compromise and the 3/5 Compromise. You are so upset that you can't even admit your mistake. If your facts are wrong, then what makes you believe that your views, which are based on false premises, are correct? :idiot2:
Like a certain someone else on these threads...list ing your pseudo-credentials doesn't support your arguments. :idiot2:
The only person upset is you because you bring up something that is irrelevant on PH, which nobody cares about.
For someone who is so passionate about certain topics your credentials are pertinent. You only see Healthcare from your over simplistic knowledge whereas someone in the industry is way more credible. Heck, in fact I'm more credible because I'm a parent, have a family, which means I'm probably more at the doctor's office than you. But of course, you are some moron who goes breaking his finger.
The point is that medical care in the US means something different than that in other countries. Obama wants virtually everything under the sun to be covered by health insurance. ::) Used to be that healthcare was for only major medical need. With new changes it jacks up all the premiums when in reality some of the services are cheaper elsewhere and you don't need health insurance for it.
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Tell us what the 2/3 Compromise is. If you can't get your facts correct, what makes you believe that your views are correct? :idiot2:
It's so easy to prove you wrong because almost every sentence you write is fallacious. For example, you wrote, "Bulba talks out of his a.ss all the time. Nothing he says has anything to do with real experience about the topic." If you had any kind of reading comprehension, you would have noticed that the original post was a real experience on universal healthcare.
As always, insulting others doesn't make you correct. Listing pseudo-credentials doesn't make you correct. And of course, getting your facts wrong really doesn't make you correct.
I'll await for you to come back with more insults and more pseudo-credentials...as if it means anything. :idiot2:
The only person upset is you because you bring up something that is irrelevant on PH, which nobody cares about.
For someone who is so passionate about certain topics your credentials are pertinent. You only see Healthcare from your over simplistic knowledge whereas someone in the industry is way more credible. Heck, in fact I'm more credible because I'm a parent, have a family, which means I'm probably more at the doctor's office than you. But of course, you are some moron who goes breaking his finger.
The point is that medical care in the US means something different than that in other countries. Obama wants virtually everything under the sun to be covered by health insurance. ::) Used to be that healthcare was for only major medical need. With new changes it jacks up all the premiums when in reality some of the services are cheaper elsewhere and you don't need health insurance for it.
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Tell us what the 2/3 Compromise is. If you can't get your facts correct, what makes you believe that your views are correct? :idiot2:
It's so easy to prove you wrong because almost every sentence you write is fallacious. For example, you wrote, "Bulba talks out of his a.ss all the time. Nothing he says has anything to do with real experience about the topic." If you had any kind of reading comprehension, you would have noticed that the original post was a real experience on universal healthcare.
As always, insulting others doesn't make you correct. Listing pseudo-credentials doesn't make you correct. And of course, getting your facts wrong really doesn't make you correct.
I'll await for you to come back with more insults and more pseudo-credentials...as if it means anything. :idiot2:
An experience on Universal Healthcare without knowing how that same healthcare is actually managed, without understanding the difference in mentality between Americans and other countries. :idiot2:
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
Go read moon angel's definition of "wisdom" and refer to my response where I bolded what was vital to having "wisdom".
You said "wisdom" is subjective, which is a very typical remark from someone who obviously thinks he has some by his own self-created standards. :2funny:
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Um, ok.
Using your logic, wisdom is not subjective. So, tell us how to mathematically measure wisdom. :idiot2:
I'll believe you when you can get your facts right. 2/3 Compromise? :2funny:
An experience on Universal Healthcare without knowing how that same healthcare is actually managed, without understanding the difference in mentality between Americans and other countries. :idiot2:
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
Go read moon angel's definition of "wisdom" and refer to my response where I bolded what was vital to having "wisdom".
You said "wisdom" is subjective, which is a very typical remark from someone who obviously thinks he has some by his own self-created standards. :2funny:
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Um, ok.
Using your logic, wisdom is not subjective. So, tell us how to mathematically measure wisdom. :idiot2:
I'll believe you when you can get your facts right. 2/3 Compromise? :2funny:
I don't have to explain how to measure wisdom. I just know that you don't have it. :2funny:
It doesn't take a genius to realize that even though you come in to divert people by trying to apply all the rules of logic in your responses, YOU DON'T really have a clue about how anything works. You somehow think that if you can score more points by applying the rules of logic more accurately than anybody else, you're smarter and more correct. Not true. All it proves is that you know your rules of logic and can apply them. ::) However, there is no value in anything you've written.
A good debater is only that -----> a good debater. I'm sure a great debater like Hitchens can argue circles around a neurosurgeon. But at the end of the day, I'm going to take the neurosurgeon's word when it comes to Neurology.
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I have to say it again, I like universal healthcare. I got hurt again while abroad, and I was lucky enough to be covered again. I really need to be more careful when traveling.
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You really need to stop projecting your shortcomings on me. It's so bad that you are stalking me. It's so bad that you are talking about me in threads that don't concern me. Look at yourself right now. I'd laugh, but it's more pathetic than funny.
BTW, it's not hard to find your mistakes. You make them in almost every discussion.
I'm glad it was minor...what would PH be like without our snarky Bulba to entertain us and bark at us every time we make a mistake.
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without reading every post of this thread, it's common sense that universal healthcare works fine. it's the American mentality of capitalism that make it not to work.
if everyone has the same basic, and anyone that wants the extra pays for those extra then everyone will be happy.
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I don't think people understand what Obamacare is. Even Congress didn't read it before voting for it. This was why the Obama administration called American voters "stupid". The truth is, Obamacare is too expensive for the working poor. Now, Obama mandated that they should only eat after they buy health insurance. They may have it, but couldn't use it because the deductible would be too high and they couldn't afford to pay. Obamacare sucks!!!!! It was design with the insurance companies making BIG money in mind.
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Who's paying for "universal healthcare?" It will most likely come from the pockets of the middle class and upper class. The most hardworking will support everyone.
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Someone disagrees with you...
You cannot fix a system that is economically broken with another system that is even more economically broken. The rationale here is due to how human being work...neurosc ience shows that human being makes their most important decision based upon the crocodile brain. Obama administration is using game theory, EI and high dimensional data analysis to manipulate all of simpletons who thinks you are so educated. When the smart is outsmart, they don't even see it coming...it's so obvious to the outside watching what is going on except the one the trick is being played on. Jokes on us America and it is no laughing matter.
:2funny:
If you thinks ACA is a great legislation... you need to wait several more years to see the full effect of it. What I can tell you after reading through the entire ACA is that the legislation is designed around three themes: access, quality, and cost. Essentially, the government is telling companies to stop over charging the government for the services, goods, and horrible quality of service. The government is saying, SOLVE the problem...The downside is business are design to create a repeat business model (band-aids) and the side effect is the problem solving. This is why pharma does not rush to create a vaccine unless the government is funding it. Pharma likes to focus on drugs with a large market and repeat business - chronic illness. It's unclear how mandating access is going to give access when the government is also the problem.
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Some people seem to think that when I support the health care system in other countries, I mean that they have superior health care professionals and technology. Not really. America is still one of the best (if not the best) country with the best trained professionals and technology. The only issue is whether or not people have access to these professionals and technology. Or, if they can have access to these professionals and technology without going broke. Dr. Andrews may be the best, but there is no way I can afford Dr. Andrews. I'm willing to settle for a capable doctor.
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:2funny:
Everyone charges a fee for their services including you. If you cannot afford the fee for the best services then you settle for what you can afford.
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Some people try too hard, but they just keep failing. You really have to stop trying to make this about me and you. It's just pathetic. I don't even want to appear mean to you, but you just keep coming for it.
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Who said I was talking about you? :2funny:
You shared a story. I shared a story. You shared your perspective. I shared my perspective. It just so happens to be that only you and I are sharing. Had Jane and John shared, then it'll be us versus you and I. ;) Don't read too much into a situation.
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put part of the defence budget into universal healthcare, and still have lots left over
universal healthcare difficult in America because every doctor wants to get pay the maximum they can, that's capitalistic philosophy.
for universal healthcare to work in America, certain communism philosophy needs to be adopted
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without reading every post of this thread, it's common sense that universal healthcare works fine. it's the American mentality of capitalism that make it not to work.
if everyone has the same basic, and anyone that wants the extra pays for those extra then everyone will be happy.
That won't fly among Americans, especially liberals. For example, what if one doctor costs more but also happens to be the better doctor - whatever that may mean. This means only those who can afford her will enjoy her brand of service. Liberals feel that they are entitled to the same kind of service just as much as those who are paying for it, and since they can't pay for it others should pick up the costs.
It isn't just a capitalistic mentality that is poisoning America, it's the entitled mentality of the Democrat party and their voters that will be the death of America.
After all, how many people on public assistance do you know that have actually changed the way they manage their lives? Many of them do not view their situation as temporary. For them, it is simply a way of living. A black woman in the projects is not telling herself to hold out on sex and do better for herself first. She is not waiting to marry the right man before having his baby. It is inevitable that she will repeat all her mother's same mistakes because to her, these are not mistakes but a social norm - have babies at a young age and receive a government check. Very few blacks who are born and raised in this type of environment actually break the cycle of poverty.
In order for a whole community to break the cycle, it takes a lot of funds and resources from the government. These aren't people who will wake themselves up and go to a job. They need rehabilitation, childcare, and transportation services. Most normal people find a way to manage these things themselves, BUT NOT these people. They don't feel motivated to do any of these things by themselves and are completely dependent on the government to provide it for them. The government has become the new face of the plantation owner.
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You make good and valid points. I would add the following:
1) Lazy people need to start working and being a contributing member of society even if it's cutting the grass at the school yard. What society allows entitlement like we have for generations? We need to teach people how to fish or let them starve.
2) Citizens needs to stop expecting an annual rate of growth of 7% plus for their retirement investment. The economy is growing at an annual growth rate of 1-2%. The delta between the two are too much and this causes investment firm we give our retirement investment to to pressure American CEO who then put us out of a job. This is called a bad metrics that drives the wrong behaviors - selfishness.
3) We as citizens need to accept the reality that the boomers lied to us about retirement. It is an illusion and only possible to those who are lucky enough. From the day you are born, you are born to toil this earth until the earth you return to. This is how the prior generations lived. Your retirement is your children so teach them the right family values and you'll be fine...except America has been throwing away the family value system for the past 30 years that built this great nation... Sad but true.
I agree we need to adopt some philosophy of communist such as in China, the biggest commie nation, if you don't work, you don't eat, and you starve. Starvation is a powerful human mechanism that forces able body (healthy) people to start working.
Over the years Americans have become less and less motivated to better themselves, particularly those who have become completely dependent on social programs. This group truly believes that in order to achieve anything they need the help of the government. I have firsthand experience with a predominantly black community and that was always the mentality. For example, while other under privileged minority groups worked out the kinks themselves, the black community was always lagging behind. They couldn't retain a job because they didn't have reliable transportation or childcare. How many of us are given reliable transportation and childcare if we don't arrange it ourselves? My parents saved to buy a car. They also went out of their way to schedule work hours in order to make childcare work. Let's just say I have years of experience and knowledge with inner city communities. Blacks can't break the cycle because they're not motivated enough since they've been milking the cow for free for far too long. They literally wait for the government to find a solution and provide the services and this is something you will hear time and time again when talking with them. It is always, "what can the government do to help the black community?" Their children were never ready to learn because they hadn't eaten. They can't get themselves to school on time because there isn't an alarm clock anywhere in the house. They can't focus on school unless there is a support group available to listen to their problems at home. Parents don't know how to get involved with the school and need coordinators to conduct workshops. On and on and on....city raised taxes to put towards the school district, which mainly went to pay the salaries of administration overseeing these programs rather than the children's academics. Another great example of wasted tax dollars on blacks: the school district hosting 2 day, 1 night workshops at the Radisson Hotel in order to motivate black parents to get more involved in their children's education. All expenses paid, including three meals a day (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) and to top it off, parents received a stipend to bring their children. They received money to bring their children! The district knew there would be no shows because black parents would say they can't find childcare so the district was willing to pay them for every child they brought.
I remember a time when I grew up in a predominantly white city. A liberal was someone who smoked a lot of weed, listened to reggae and folk music, and wore Birkenstocks with tie-dyed t-shirts.
This is why I question that black Chicago girl who was accepted into 26 colleges. Admission is expensive so I wonder how she paid for all 26 applications and if it was even worth it at $50-100 a piece. Perhaps she used her scholarship money? All I know is that the families of the school district I'm speaking about, no junior or senior had to pay to take the ACT. That was unheard of when I took mine.
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... if you don't work, you don't eat, and you starve. Starvation is a powerful human mechanism that forces able body (healthy) people to start working.
that's what needs to happen in America, too many have become the masters and expected to fed by others
food stamps didn't work, electronic payments didn't work....perhap s just have food banks where people on welfare can just go get foods but no alcohols and other things which are bad for their lives. when they start working, they can chase their American dream
three things people need are food, shelter, and cloth. provide the first just so we don't have so many graves :D
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That won't fly among Americans, especially liberals. For example, what if one doctor costs more but also happens to be the better doctor - whatever that may mean. This means only those who can afford her will enjoy her brand of service. Liberals feel that they are entitled to the same kind of service just as much as those who are paying for it, and since they can't pay for it others should pick up the costs.
It isn't just a capitalistic mentality that is poisoning America, it's the entitled mentality of the Democrat party and their voters that will be the death of America.
After all, how many people on public assistance do you know that have actually changed the way they manage their lives? Many of them do not view their situation as temporary. For them, it is simply a way of living. A black woman in the projects is not telling herself to hold out on sex and do better for herself first. She is not waiting to marry the right man before having his baby. It is inevitable that she will repeat all her mother's same mistakes because to her, these are not mistakes but a social norm - have babies at a young age and receive a government check. Very few blacks who are born and raised in this type of environment actually break the cycle of poverty.
In order for a whole community to break the cycle, it takes a lot of funds and resources from the government. These aren't people who will wake themselves up and go to a job. They need rehabilitation, childcare, and transportation services. Most normal people find a way to manage these things themselves, BUT NOT these people. They don't feel motivated to do any of these things by themselves and are completely dependent on the government to provide it for them. The government has become the new face of the plantation owner.
someone has to have the courage to do it....politici ans won't do because can jeopardize the votes for them
i'm wondering why not let a billionaire become the president and see what he can do, isn't trump's hand up for that now. Ross Peorut did that once but americans were too paranoid of the rich. let someone who actually know how to run a corporation to run America?
every person can get the basic healthcare, extra requires personal contributions of money....you want to live then pay up :D
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FDR was a wealthy president. He was instrumental in changing the social landscape.
FDR found solutions to problems that had to be dealt with immediately. It was meant to be temporary solutions for the people, not a lifestyle. It's a real problem when people take advantage of services that are meant to alleviate a situation and turn it into a lifestyle or use it as a crutch to live a misguided life. Innovators do not come up with these technological solutions so that people can live an immoral life. For example, abortion is not birth control, third party surrogacy is not so adults can have their designer baby, birth contraceptive is not so people can have recreational sex, cosmetic surgery isn't so a person can have double d's, public assistance is not a way of life, public education is not free daycare, etc. Remember when only those who had a real need for these services used them? Now these services are more like gateways to people fulfilling their own selfishness, while fattening the wallets of those that run the service. They enable the people to live irresponsibly. ::)
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America is not a corporation, and that is why we shouldn't just let a billionaire run America. That doesn't mean that a billionaire wouldn't be qualified, but simply being one doesn't qualify him or her. A president needs more skills than just business.
BTW, Perot didn't lose simply because he was rich. Similarly, Romney didn't lost simply because he was rich.
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Isn't it ironic that the "Christians" in here are the ones against Universal Health Care. They say we can't afford it but then they supported trillion dollar wars, billions in tax breaks to profitable corporations, tax breaks for the rich. I guess "What Would Jesus Do?" isn't even asked when considering whether to take care of sick people in our nation without leaving them bankrupt.
It's the way of the civilized society, almost all other 1st world nations have some system of UHC. One thing I've learned in my lifetime is that too much one way or the other is bad. Capitalism is not a system that is sustainable, neither is Communism but we need a balance.
Funny enough we have a lot of socialist institutions and programs in this country that if those conservatives actually knew what they were talking about when they mention socialism they'd shut their mouths. The military is a socialist institution, the post office, the public library, medicaid, social security...
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Your views on retirement investment isn't completely accurate. There are more factors.
Also, an American shouldn't expect their children to be their retirement fund. First, you never know what will happen in your children's lives. Second, a young person shouldn't follow this mentality because it is not a certainty to know if children is even in their future. Third, (and this is my personal opinion), it is kinda selfish. Children should aid their elderly parents if need be. However, to expect and plan for your children's financial support is a bit selfish. It is even more selfish if you aren't even old yet, and you can prevent this from happening.
You make good and valid points. I would add the following:
1) Lazy people need to start working and being a contributing member of society even if it's cutting the grass at the school yard. What society allows entitlement like we have for generations? We need to teach people how to fish or let them starve.
2) Citizens needs to stop expecting an annual rate of growth of 7% plus for their retirement investment. The economy is growing at an annual growth rate of 1-2%. The delta between the two are too much and this causes investment firm we give our retirement investment to to pressure American CEO who then put us out of a job. This is called a bad metrics that drives the wrong behaviors - selfishness.
3) We as citizens need to accept the reality that the boomers lied to us about retirement. It is an illusion and only possible to those who are lucky enough. From the day you are born, you are born to toil this earth until the earth you return to. This is how the prior generations lived. Your retirement is your children so teach them the right family values and you'll be fine...except America has been throwing away the family value system for the past 30 years that built this great nation... Sad but true.
I agree we need to adopt some philosophy of communist such as in China, the biggest commie nation, if you don't work, you don't eat, and you starve. Starvation is a powerful human mechanism that forces able body (healthy) people to start working.
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Isn't it ironic that the "Christians" in here are the ones against Universal Health Care. They say we can't afford it but then they supported trillion dollar wars, billions in tax breaks to profitable corporations, tax breaks for the rich. I guess "What Would Jesus Do?" isn't even asked when considering whether to take care of sick people in our nation without leaving them bankrupt.
It's the way of the civilized society, almost all other 1st world nations have some system of UHC. One thing I've learned in my lifetime is that too much one way or the other is bad. Capitalism is not a system that is sustainable, neither is Communism but we need a balance.
Funny enough we have a lot of socialist institutions and programs in this country that if those conservatives actually knew what they were talking about when they mention socialism they'd shut their mouths. The military is a socialist institution, the post office, the public library, medicaid, social security...
Wow, your idiocy doesn't take a break, does it? Conservatives have no problem contributing to public goods such as building roads, having a strong military, a public library - all things shared by the public. What we don't want to do is support able-bodied men and women to continue making bad decisions that they can't afford to make.
I'm embarrassed for you that your definition of helping the poor and meek is to hand out entitlements to those who chose vice over virtue and are now dearly paying for it. Who exactly is the poor and meek other than the elderly and handicapped? These sickly patients that you cheaply insert in your argument are which group to be exact? Hint: I hope you know that one of the leading chronic illnesses is a preventable one.
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*yawns* This doesn't make any sense. You can whine all you want about "the system," but...
1. You never know what will happen in your children's lives.
2. A young person shouldn't follow this mentality because it is not a certainty to know if children is even in their future.
3. Children should aid their elderly parents if need be. However, to expect and plan for your children's financial support is a bit selfish. It is even more selfish if you aren't even old yet, and you can prevent this from happening.
In bold because you missed it the first time.
You love models, so let's examine how crappy your model is. What should infertile people do about retirement? Under your model, they have no retirement plan. What about homosexuals? I know you hate them, but some people still believe they deserve a retirement plan. And let's look at the perfect scenario: Parent helps kid succeed. Parent retires. Kid is happy to help the parent. However, crappy things happen in life. The kid could get hit by lightning. The kid could freakishly get cancer. The kid could have a skiing accident. Car accident. Plane crash. MERS. Etc. Stuff like this happens.
You can whine all you want about the "200 year American Experiment" and the "Hmong Experiment." You fail to understand that life "thousands" of years ago is not the same as now. Many Americans aren't having 5+ children anymore. Life is not the same as 200 years ago. Look around you, how many of us are farmers?
Children do not equal a retirement plan. Such a mentality is not only arguably selfish, it is irresponsible.
I don't even know why I even waste my time. You're still having trouble with "precision" and "accuracy."
B,
You can call it aide, support, etc... but ultimately, the elderly depend on the younger generation in their retirement age. How you classify the languages don't matter because fundamentally since the dawn of man it has always been the son (current generation) responsibility to take care of the father (prior generation). Today this understanding exists and is well accepted by our society. The problem here and specific to UHC is there is a BIG FAT BILL that the father generation leaves. They spend 1-5 million dollars at the last stage of their life. This is an unsustainable systems. Since society have setup an insurance scheme where the US CMS pays 70% via taxes on this, eventually, the cost burden will come to the tax payers. Meaning, the boomers and gen x will create a big fat bill and leave the millennials and etc... to hold the bag. We are willing to hold the bag, but when you spend 1-5 million dollars (over 1-5 life time earnings), how can we pay this bill? We are going to be bankrupt by our father. This puts two fundamental human rules at odds with each other:
1) The father must ensure the son's future success.
2) The son must take care of the father in retirement.
Right now these two fundamental human rules are colliding because people are SELFISH. A selfish society is a society on a path of destruction. The American experiment is only a 200 year experiment. The Hmong experiment dates back to thousands of years. Our identity has survive multiple civilizations up and down in China and exists today because our thinking is correct on the sustainability level. Those who argue this way of thinking is outdated lack a holistic view on the subject. The obvious is the conflict exists and the motivation to survive exists strongly in everyone. The sad part of this is that the system and members of the system as a whole lack an awareness and mindset to see the damage they are doing to the system by being selfish. Education is necessary to the elder generation that if they take out a 1-5 million dollar bill, then their kids will be left with the bill...sure it's not bill directly to them, but it is bill to the system and the system will bill across everyone.
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You rave on and on about how awesome China is currently doing. They cooperate. They collaborate. Then you bash UHC because it is not cooperative or collaborative. WTH? China has a version of UHC! They are currently still reforming it to try to provide even more access to people in rural areas. The majority (if not all) the healthcare in China is overseen by the government. And even if you didn't know any of that, this thread should have tipped you off. The thread starts with a story of me breaking my finger and being covered by UHC.........IN CHINA!
WWJD if he read what you just wrote...
(http://www.robshep.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/jesus_facepalm.jpg)
Bro TNG,
We need a sustainable program. We do not need another social security program that is not sustainable in the next 100 years. Or worst, a program that can bankrupt the country.
WWJD? We already know what Jesus would do. He would die on the cross to save the future generation. Jesus would not let the future generation die on the cross so he can life another few more years.
Btw, this isn't about ideology argument about socialism vs. capitalism vs. liberalism vs. conservatism vs. idealism vs. pragmatism, etc... this is about sustainability . If we don't work cooperatively together, our way of life is at risk. Our society will rot backwards like China Dynasty period. If you study Chinese history you will know that China was once the most advance society. Through selfish desires, and in-fighting, China lost its might. China today is focus, cooperative, collaborative, etc... and their society is PROSPERING. Here we are bickering and our society is losing out. For all the bullshit human rights violation, China in the past 30 years lifted over 300M people out of poverty. We don't hear about that...we only hear about the human rights violation. China continues to prove what computer scientist have proven through simulation - COOPERATION is KEY, and sociologist/anthropologist have argued - COOPERATION leads to higher level of SUCCESS.
Btw, UHC isn't a cooperative system...it's a very selfishish-me-type of system. It doesn't take into consideration the casual effect into the future. It's only concern with the NOW. That's not cooperation and that is not sustainable.
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*yawns* This is too easy...
1. You wrote, "Lastly, our children are our retirement plan." Why don't we actually make a thread on this, and let's see how many people think your idea is a good idea.
2. Talking about me never helps your argument.
3. I'll let you rebut yourself...
China today is focus, cooperative, collaborative, etc... and their society is PROSPERING.
UHC isn't a cooperative system...it's a very selfishish-me-type of system.
You are right. China do have UHC.
4. If you don't think a broken finger is major, then what what is? There is a reason why I brought this thread back from the dead. Go back and read all the posts, you'll notice that I needed medical care again. I'd tell you what it was, but I'll let you guess first. And even if you don't think my most recent injury is major, then you tell me what you believe is the most major of injuries. I had a young co-worker last November who needed medical care. Guess what he needed? I know for a fact that you don't know what you are talking about. You are only talking about what you think is true. I am talking about what actually is happening. We all know that whatever you are thinking is rarely actually true. 17th century scholars thought the world was flat. Precision. Accuracy. Derivatives. The deception of switching and baiting. The 3 stooges. :2funny:
What do you consider is major surgery that "you would have to a lot of problem getting proper care without US Embassy support?" :2funny:
In bold, so you can answer the question directly...and be wrong later. :2funny:
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http://www.wmur.com/news/father-mont-vernon-man-burned-in-taiwan-park-fire-fights-for-life/33902278 (http://www.wmur.com/news/father-mont-vernon-man-burned-in-taiwan-park-fire-fights-for-life/33902278)
It's a good thing the poor guy had the support of the American Institute in Taiwan, otherwise he wouldn't have received proper care. ::)
Oh the horrors of getting hurt abroad in countries with universal healthcare. ::)
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universal health care works in other countries, americans are too stupid to make it not working? :P
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universal health care works in other countries, americans are too stupid to make it not working? :P
I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but yes, it does work.
Ironically enough, some of the most vocal people on here against universal healthcare actually have very little or no experience with it.
By no means is universal healthcare perfect, but at least majority of people have access to healthcare services and no one goes bankrupt as a result of an unforeseen medical problem.
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Some people do not consider healthcare as a human right but a commodity. I disagree. I think healthcare is a human right. People aren't choosing to get sick. Plus, it's possible for everyone to get everything. Doctors can get paid. Medical companies can get paid. People can get healthcare. It can work, but people don't want it to, especially some Americans.
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Some people do not consider healthcare as a human right but a commodity.
Republicans consider it a commodity. Then they complain when its too expensive. You can't win with them.
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Republicans consider it a commodity. Then they complain when its too expensive. You can't win with them.
Tell that to all the Hmong rushing into the PharmD program because starting salary is often in the six figures.
You're the one who said that people should be compensated for their work at whatever price they name. ::) :idiot2: :2funny:
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Tell that to all the Hmong rushing into the PharmD program because starting salary is often in the six figures.
You're the one who said that people should be compensated for their work at whatever price they name. ::) :idiot2: :2funny:
Uhhh, yeah....um...o kay.
::slowly walks away::
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I'm not sure if you are talking to me, but yes, it does work.
Ironically enough, some of the most vocal people on here against universal healthcare actually have very little or no experience with it.
By no means is universal healthcare perfect, but at least majority of people have access to healthcare services and no one goes bankrupt as a result of an unforeseen medical problem.
It work if you're healthy but you're not going to get the quality care when you really need it if you're on the gov't program. I know of people in Canada that drives to the U.S. to get medical care because they can't get it in Canada soon enough and the quality is not there. I've cousins that lives in Thailand and they public (gov't sponsor) care facilities but it's of the bad quality, only the rich can get the good care.
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*yawns*
Let's use your logic.... We should only use a model that works. Well, France, Singapore, Italy, Spain, Japan, and Norway are among the countries with the best healthcare model. They all use some form of universal healthcare. Do you know which model doesn't work? The American model.
It work if you're healthy but you're not going to get the quality care when you really need it if you're on the gov't program. I know of people in Canada that drives to the U.S. to get medical care because they can't get it in Canada soon enough and the quality is not there. I've cousins that lives in Thailand and they public (gov't sponsor) care facilities but it's of the bad quality, only the rich can get the good care.
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One more story about universal healthcare...
I was traveling abroad again for business, and I got terribly sick. I was throwing up, fever, headaches, everything. Usually I would just call in sick and wait it out. But, my coworkers came to check up on me (probably because they didn't want me to be alone and sick in a foreign country). They dragged me to the hospital. It was less than $5 to see a doctor, and about 30 cents for the medicine. I waited less than 5 minutes.
I was still sick for the week and I lost my voice, but it is nice to be covered. And best of all, everyone gets what they want. Doctors get paid. Medical companies get paid. People get healthcare.
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Did you see the article where Rafael Edward Cruz forgot to sign up for ACA and then proceeded to blame the program for it even though the insurer notified him FIVE months in advance.
Gosh these Republicans are clowns to the fullest.
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One more story about universal healthcare...
I was traveling abroad again for business, and I got terribly sick. I was throwing up, fever, headaches, everything. Usually I would just call in sick and wait it out. But, my coworkers came to check up on me (probably because they didn't want me to be alone and sick in a foreign country). They dragged me to the hospital. It was less than $5 to see a doctor, and about 30 cents for the medicine. I waited less than 5 minutes.
I was still sick for the week and I lost my voice, but it is nice to be covered. And best of all, everyone gets what they want. Doctors get paid. Medical companies get paid. People get healthcare.
$5 oversea... ahahahahaha... . Try that here with Obamacare. You'll pay more than that in deductible before your insurance kicks in.
Did you see the article where Rafael Edward Cruz forgot to sign up for ACA and then proceeded to blame the program for it even though the insurer notified him FIVE months in advance.
Gosh these Republicans are clowns to the fullest.
Actually, the clowns are those that voted for this behemoth without knowing what's in it. Obamacare is losing money big time... big tax and deficit increases in the future.
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So I went in the clinic last week, and to my surprise, they raised the price. $6 instead of $5.
People who complain about "Obamacare" and universal healthcare often have ulterior motives, and those motives are often political. Most sane people (because there are some insane people) would agree that people should have access to affordable healthcare.
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Some of my more conservative cousins and friends and associates often argue why I support universal healthcare when "Obamacare" is flawed. Well....
1. I support universal healthcare, not necessarily Obamacare. I simply believe that people should have access to affordable healthcare.
2. Obamacare isn't perfect, but it is at least a step in the direction of giving affordable healthcare. Keeping the current system is not the way to go.
3. After experiencing universal healthcare (because I am covered in some countries), I wouldn't go back to the American system. In this thread, I have only been telling stories about myself, but I have experienced some horrific stories involving others. Maybe I'll post them later...
The truth is that this whole anti-universal healthcare movement is political. Many Republicans actually supported it or pushed it years ago. They only oppose it now because they are playing political games. For example, we call it Obamacare instead of the Affordable Healthcare Act.
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So I went in the clinic last week, and to my surprise, they raised the price. $6 instead of $5.
People who complain about "Obamacare" and universal healthcare often have ulterior motives, and those motives are often political. Most sane people (because there are some insane people) would agree that people should have access to affordable healthcare.
Hey, I was sick last week and went to the doctor and it cost me $0... imagine that.
Seriously? You got free healthcare and it just cost you $6 for a doctor visit with treatment? You got to be kidding me...
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I know. Damn those Dems and Liberals and.....OBAMA! :2funny:
Hey, I was sick last week and went to the doctor and it cost me $0... imagine that.
Seriously? You got free healthcare and it just cost you $6 for a doctor visit with treatment? You got to be kidding me...
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Medical training needs to extend to Vietnam. I met a girl from FB who's from there and she got just a fever and they admitted her into the hospital for two weeks just to put saline on her.
The government absorbed about 99% of the cost. But is the stay necessary for the condition?
There are problems with "Obamacare," but universal healthcare is a good thing.
I was out with some friends and cousins, and the topic came up. Surprisingly, they were all against universal healthcare. Strangely enough, a good number of them worked in the medical field. At first, I thought maybe they disagreed on it because of principle, smaller government. However, as the discussion continued, it became apparent that they were simply misinformed. I originally avoided the debate since I was the only dissenting view. There was no need to engage in a debate with people I haven't seen in a long time. Also, I was the more informed and the better debater, so it wouldn't even be fair. But then, like good medical professionals, they noticed my broken finger...
They noticed my broken finger, but they didn't know that I broke it while I was abroad. They were all guessing how much it cost me. $500 to $5000. It became a game. When I told them it cost me less than $20,, they were shocked. They then proceeded to try to find something wrong with the system, such as wait time, appointments, etc. However, when I told them that I simply walked in, no appointment, 10 minute wait, got treated, got medication, a rehab schedule with a personal trainer, and follow-ups with the doctor, it really blew their minds. All of their pre-conceptions about universal healthcare was wrong.
Granted, if I needed surgery, I might have needed to wait and pay more. I am not sure about the wait, but I am pretty sure the cost would have been cheaper.
Virtually every country with universal healthcare laughs at the American system. Although it is true that some of the best hospitals, doctors, medical techniques, etc. are in America, it doesn't mean much when people do not have access to it.
People should be mindful of facts vs. pre-conceptions.
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You gotta ask the doctors. The end result was just something minor, so the medical care seems over the top. However, there have been cases where the opposite occurred: doctors thought it was something minor, but it was really something serious. I don't know much about Vietnamese doctors, so I can't really say on their level of expertise. That being said....
From my experience, places with universal healthcare seem "less stingy" using their resources.
Medical training needs to extend to Vietnam. I met a girl from FB who's from there and she got just a fever and they admitted her into the hospital for two weeks just to put saline on her.
The government absorbed about 99% of the cost. But is the stay necessary for the condition?
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O0
You gotta ask the doctors. The end result was just something minor, so the medical care seems over the top. However, there have been cases where the opposite occurred: doctors thought it was something minor, but it was really something serious. I don't know much about Vietnamese doctors, so I can't really say on their level of expertise. That being said....
From my experience, places with universal healthcare seem "less stingy" using their resources.
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So I saw a video clip of a college student on Fox News, and she just got destroyed on this issue. Fox News twisted the argument, and she got caught. Oh well. Hopefully she learned her lesson.