Chinese Language vs. Hmong Language....

[NeejYagHawj]

most people seem to dismiss the idea that there is no such thing as hmong or chinese language.  the fact of the matter  is, there are so many dialects in china that one can't claim a certain word is chinese or mong.  the way i see it, we don't even know which word originates from chinese or mong or other dialects.  what we know, for sure, is that mandarin is now the official language, while other dialect such as cantanese is the more dominant dialect.  and at the same time, it make sense that people borrowed words from other people.  what i also know is that mong are once, more advance than other groups in china, including the "main stream chinese."  with this though in mind, it is easily conclusive, that many of the mong words were borrowed into the chinese dialect and then mong lost it over time.

what we know, is that mandarin is more mong than other dialects.  what we also knwo is that mandarin is probably more related to mong than the other chinese. 

so the question is, who borrowed from who?  chinese is pretty much more like latin (a dead language)...but mong, seems to still remember and use that dead language more than other ethnic groups in china.  we also need to be awared that during chiyou's time, mong were pretty powerful, having knowledge of climates, fenghui, martial arts, etc...and it is at this time that many "arts' were also created, including qeej, legends, etc.  we may have lost the everyday usage of it, but we still keep it and hve it in these arts.  anyone who knows matrimonial songs, death songs, etc, woudl know this.

keep in mind, i have never studied chinese, but i understood what the original post said....why?  cuz i know the arts of the mong.  so again, it makes no sense to me when we say chinese or mong language?  we are so mixed that once can't really say which word is from which group of people.  i am leaning on the idea that chinese borrorwed just as manh words as the mong borrowed from them.  the only difference is, chinese wrote them down and mong did not.  so of course, at this age, people were say "it is from chinese"...but i still think that hmong have forgotten that it was once a mong word.

[dust]

I didn't bother reading through most of the posts, but there's definitely a lot of misinformation floating around on here.

First things first, it has to be clarified that when OP mentioned Chinese, they meant Mandarin, not Cantonese.

Now, to clarify the misinformation floating around.

1. Mandarin has 4 tones, not 8, not 5. 4. It is the official language of mainland China.

2. Cantonese has 6 tones. It is one of the official languages in Hong Kong. Having said that, after the hand off of HK to China, China tried hard to push for Mandarin to be integrated into the school system there. If you visit HK, you'll hear announcements in English, Cantonese and Mandarin.

3. Cantonese is not a more dominant dialect. Mandarin is. It's spoken in mainland China, Taiwan and many people speak it in Hong Kong. Furthermore, it is Mandarin that is taught in schools around the world, not Cantonese.

4. While China does not have a public school system like in the States, it's not accurate to imply that minorities can't or are unable to go to school. If they have the monetary funds to pay for school, they can attend. It can also be noted that though Hmong/Miao is not a dialect that can be learned in school, there is a Minorities University (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunnan_Nationalities_University) in Kunming, China that does teach some of the other minority languages.

5. While we can look at Chinese characters and sounds all day and compare, there's nothing like hearing it used in context.

While some Chinese and Hmong words can often have similar sounds, I personally don't believe learning Chinese is that easy or simple. You still need to study hard and memorize a lot of characters, which then goes into a whole other problem because mainland Chinese uses simplified Chinese (characters) while Hong Kong and Taiwan uses traditional.

[NeejYagHawj]

when i said dominant, i meant more people speaks cantonese than mandarin, in terms of "natively" speaking cantonese.  mandarin is the official language, thus most people in china will speak the dialect...but still it is not the dominant dialect.

many people will and did learn mandarin simply becuase it was/is the official language set forth by the government that spoke mandarin at that time.  however, up to date, no  one really knows who borrowed words from who.  what we do know...is that whatever the winner says will be "true."  and scholars today will go with what was written down by the conquerors.  this is why i believe that it may not be true that the so called "chinese words" that mong use today are chinese at all.  it may just be a form of old mong--but  because we did nto write them down, we lost them to the chinese who borrowed them and uses them, and wrote them down as their own.

yh

[chidorix0x]

/\/\  ...  kekeke ...   /

China has a population of over 1.6 billion, where 1 billion are Han who ALL natively speak, read, and write Mandarin.  And that is minus all the Minorities there who also happens to speak, read, and write Mandarin too ... kekeke  ...   

Cantonese, is ONLY  (or primarily) native on the island of Taiwan, with a TOTAL population of around 200 million (not absolutely sure but it is MOST definitely NOT 1 billion, or even 500 million -- that is  FACT).  Thus, ti make a/the ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idioctic HA'MUNG ha'stupid Ha'CLAIM that Cantonese trumps Mandarin is HA'MUNGINGLY ha'nonsense ha'idioctically ha'idiocy  ...  KEKEKE  ...   /

[NeejYagHawj]

chidorx

just so you know...wikiped ia is not considered a reliable source yet...most scholars ignore it.  with this in mind....read the following...it is amateurish...b ut, it should b sufficient.

http://www.alittledynasty.com/history-of-mandarin-chinese.html

i was not referring to after mandarin was formed and then the government forced everyone to learn--of course, 1.6 million would speak it after it was forced onto them.   i am talking about the time when there was a 1000 diffrerent dialects in china.  there are more cantansese speakers comapred to mandarin speakers at that time.

with this said, go ahead and post those little "retarded" images back to yourself.

[NeejYagHawj]

afterlife...

it may be true...but what i'm saying is..

if you add all the dialects, you may get mong....and/or if you add a and b, you will get c.  but this doesn't disprove whtat i said....there are so many interlinked dialect in china, that we can't really say a certain word is mong, or manderin, or cantanese.  but as i said, the conqueror will write these words down and label them as X, y, or z....making them belonging to x, y, or z....and the mong are left with "oh we borrowed that from x, y, or z" instead of "that was really a mong word" to begin with but the chinese borrowed it and used it as their own.

[dust]

/\/\  ...  kekeke ...   /

China has a population of over 1.6 billion, where 1 billion are Han who ALL natively speak, read, and write Mandarin.  And that is minus all the Minorities there who also happens to speak, read, and write Mandarin too ... kekeke  ...   

Cantonese, is ONLY  (or primarily) native on the island of Taiwan, with a TOTAL population of around 200 million (not absolutely sure but it is MOST definitely NOT 1 billion, or even 500 million -- that is  FACT).  Thus, ti make a/the ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idioctic HA'MUNG ha'stupid Ha'CLAIM that Cantonese trumps Mandarin is HA'MUNGINGLY ha'nonsense ha'idioctically ha'idiocy  ...  KEKEKE  ...   /

For someone who constantly puts others down and throws around "facts," you sure don't give accurate information. Mandarin is spoken in Taiwan, NOT Cantonese. The population of Taiwan is most definitely not 200 million but 23 million. Cantonese is spoken in Hong Kong AND in the Guangdong Province in China (where it originated from).

when i said dominant, i meant more people speaks cantonese than mandarin, in terms of "natively" speaking cantonese.  mandarin is the official language, thus most people in china will speak the dialect...but still it is not the dominant dialect.

many people will and did learn mandarin simply becuase it was/is the official language set forth by the government that spoke mandarin at that time.  however, up to date, no  one really knows who borrowed words from who.  what we do know...is that whatever the winner says will be "true."  and scholars today will go with what was written down by the conquerors.  this is why i believe that it may not be true that the so called "chinese words" that mong use today are chinese at all.  it may just be a form of old mong--but  because we did nto write them down, we lost them to the chinese who borrowed them and uses them, and wrote them down as their own.

yh

That still doesn't make Cantonese the dominant language.

As for the Chinese borrowing words and whatnot. Most languages have taken words from other languages. However, it would seem presumptuous to think that the Hmong have influenced the Chinese to the extent that they would have taken words from us. The Hmong have always had a difficult time assimilating into other cultures. Furthermore in China, the term "Miao" is used to describe many different groups of ethnic minorities in China, some of which do not speak mutually intelligible languages.

[HUNG TU LO]

/\/\  ...  kekeke ...   /

China has a population of over 1.6 billion, where 1 billion are Han who ALL natively speak, read, and write Mandarin.  And that is minus all the Minorities there who also happens to speak, read, and write Mandarin too ... kekeke  ...   

Cantonese, is ONLY  (or primarily) native on the island of Taiwan, with a TOTAL population of around 200 million (not absolutely sure but it is MOST definitely NOT 1 billion, or even 500 million -- that is  FACT).  Thus, ti make a/the ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idioctic HA'MUNG ha'stupid Ha'CLAIM that Cantonese trumps Mandarin is HA'MUNGINGLY ha'nonsense ha'idioctically ha'idiocy  ...  KEKEKE  ...   /

What a freaking idiot! I guess my favorite classical martial arts film, The Prodigal Son (1981) was made in Taiwan. WOW! I didn't know Franky Chan and Yuen Biao lived and worked out of Taiwan!

[chidorix0x]

What a freaking idiot! I guess my favorite classical martial arts film, The Prodigal Son (1981) was made in Taiwan. WOW! I didn't know Franky Chan and Yuen Biao lived and worked out of Taiwan!

...  kekeke  ...   /

A-Nut-Turd DUH-ha'Mung of ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idioctic HA'MUNGness ha'ranting HA'MUNGINGLY ha'nonsense ha'incessantly  ...  KEKEKE  ...   

Ha'HINT:
Most if NOT all martial arts movies, especially in the 80s, were and still are today mainly produced straight out of Hong Kong --  which IS NOT part of China (like Macau, nor does it even consider itself Chinese, arguably.  That is FACT.  Yeah, yeah, no one expects DUH-dolt ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idioctic HA'MUNG to know these elemenTURDary historical info etc.. ... kekeke  ...   

Go ahead, make more ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idioctic HA'MUNG ha'stupid ha'nonsense -- to further prove DUH-HA'MUNG-tardness  ... KEKEKE  ...   /

FYI, as told ha'idiot, ur stOOpid movie, is in FACT straight from Hong Kong, NOT Taiwan, produced by Golden Harvest owned by RShaw, and directed by Samo Hung.  Yeah, HA'MUNGtard, u r a ha'freaking ha'idiot indeed  ... KEKEKE  ...   

[HUNG TU LO]

HAHAHAHA

First of all, this is my direct quote:

What a freaking idiot! I guess my favorite classical martial arts film, The Prodigal Son (1981) was made in Taiwan. WOW! I didn't know Franky Chan and Yuen Biao lived and worked out of Taiwan!

You missed the sarcasm WAAAAY over your head, kiddo. Did you forget you ducked up and said that Cantonese is majorly spoken in Taiwan? I'm merely making a mockery out of you.  this guy has no sense of sarcasm.

Never once did I say anything about which country Hong Kong is a part of. This isn't the topic. This is about how idiotic you are by saying that Cantonese is in Taiwan which couldn't be further from the truth. But since you want to talk about it so bad...

I am well aware of the separate legal, political, and currency system of Hong Kong vs the rest of (People's Republic of) China as well as the history of Great Britain occupation and the handover in the 1990s.
To which country was Hong Kong handed over to? China. It's officially a Special Administrative Region (SAR) but Hong Kong is not a province, a city-state, or a country. Guess which country has the the power of foreign affairs and military? China. Hong Kong does not operate independently from PRC when it comes to foreign affairs and military issues. And we all know the "one country, two systems" ethos of Hong Kong is bullshit because if you were Beijing, you would really let UK ride you when it's no longer a colony? We all know that what HK has become and what it will become in the future rests in Beijing's hands.


Secondly...

Golden Harvest was by Raymond Chow and Leonard Ho, not the Shaw Brothers. Raymond and Leonard left Shaw to create Golden Harvest. Shaw Brothers stopped production of martial arts full-length movies in the 1980s because they were taken over by Golden Harvest.

What else you got buddy?

[dlabtsi_os]

I made a few corrections on this thing...

The character 点 Dian=Teev is a very broad term. So yes you are correct about meaning a period or point. Also it specify the time point period. In other word Hour. Also  点 is a simplified form of 點.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%BB%9E#Translingual 1.2 you are correct. However Click 2.2 Noun and see the variety of definition. So we Hmong use it in context.

HAHAHAHA

First of all, this is my direct quote:
You missed the sarcasm WAAAAY over your head, kiddo. Did you forget you ducked up and said that Cantonese is majorly spoken in Taiwan? I'm merely making a mockery out of you.  this guy has no sense of sarcasm.

Never once did I say anything about which country Hong Kong is a part of. This isn't the topic. This is about how idiotic you are by saying that Cantonese is in Taiwan which couldn't be further from the truth. But since you want to talk about it so bad...

I am well aware of the separate legal, political, and currency system of Hong Kong vs the rest of (People's Republic of) China as well as the history of Great Britain occupation and the handover in the 1990s.
To which country was Hong Kong handed over to? China. It's officially a Special Administrative Region (SAR) but Hong Kong is not a province, a city-state, or a country. Guess which country has the the power of foreign affairs and military? China. Hong Kong does not operate independently from PRC when it comes to foreign affairs and military issues. And we all know the "one country, two systems" ethos of Hong Kong is bullshit because if you were Beijing, you would really let UK ride you when it's no longer a colony? We all know that what HK has become and what it will become in the future rests in Beijing's hands.


Secondly...

Golden Harvest was by Raymond Chow and Leonard Ho, not the Shaw Brothers. Raymond and Leonard left Shaw to create Golden Harvest. Shaw Brothers stopped production of martial arts full-length movies in the 1980s because they were taken over by Golden Harvest.

What else you got buddy?

lol

[chidorix0x]

...  kekeke  ...   

Furz UH-DUH-ha'Mung arguing that Chinese/Mandarin is easier, or just as easy to learn as Hmong/Mong, on the mere fact that Chinese/Mandarin only has 4 tones versus 8 in Hmong/Mong is  and  .

I am learning Chinese/Mandarin, at the moment, and from what I have learned thus far, despite Chinese/Mandarin only having 4 tones (in speech with rules mind you; whereas Hmong/Mong has no rules whatsoever), it is comprised of 21 initials and 39 finals, plus the 4 tones with its rules.  In Hmong/Mong, technically the finals (tsiaj ntawv and cim; that is vowel/s and tone) can be combined; thus eliminating any unnecessary learning and speaking challenges towards fluency and accuracy -- both in speeh and meaning.  And in Hmong/Mong, despite one word having multiple meanings by itself, it does not have upwards of 20+ possible meanings, which is true for Chinese/Mandarin.

Lastly, most linguists agree that Chinese/Mandarin is in the top 5, in terms of being one of the hardest languages in the world to learn, or master.  (Hmong/Mong, anyone Ha'Mung, or non-Hmong can master within a year at most, versus Chinese/Mandarin, which can take upwards of 3+years at fluency ...  KEKEKE  ...   / )

[bulbasaur]

WTH?  Do any of you even speak the languages you are talking about?  Have you even been to the places that speak these languages?  Some of the information in this thread is just wrong.  It's sad because you didn't even have to go there to know; you could have just Googled it. 

1.  Generally speaking, Mandarin is the most dominant. 

2.  Cantonese is barely spoken in Taiwan.  There are  good number of languages spoken by Taiwanese locals, and Cantonese is not one of them.  They probably speak more English than Cantonese.   
 
3.  Taiwan's population is not even close to 200 million.  It's just about 23 million.  You're off by almost a factor 10, and you're whining that "it's a fact?" 
 
4.  Some of you need to get the number of tones right for the language you're speaking of. 

5.  You can get by with Cantonese and English in Hong Kong.   

I can go on with the errors in this thread, but it's probably pointless.  Some of you can't even own up that you made a mistake.  Some of the mistakes have already been pointed out. 

As far as which is more difficult...so me comments here are personal comments that may or may not apply to the whole, and vice versa.  For example, what is easy for you may or may not be easy for others. 

[chidorix0x]

/\/\  ...  kekeke  ...   

DUH-UH-ha'Mung ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idiotic Ha'Mung ha'ranting ha'nonsense ha'incessantly ha'again  ...  KEKEKE  ...   

Ha'HINT:
1.  Generally speaking, y'all UH-Ha'Mung can barely speak Hmong (and/or Mandarin), and mainly speak UH-Ha'Mungglish  ...  kekeke  ...   

2.  Cantonese was never part of the equation until UH-ha'ignorant Ha'Mung ha'went Ka-Koo-Koo-Cantonese to try and reprise their UH-Ha'Mungness.

3.  Some/most of ya-UH-Ha'Mung need to be semi ha'edumacated in Hmong/Mandarin (ha'NUT-tards Ha'Mungglish and DUH-UH-Mungdarin) before ha'ranting ha'nonsense ha'again.


4.  You cannot get by with UH-ha'Mungglish and UH-ha'English in Hmong (say in Thailand or Laos for example).

5.  Yes, I am just as fluent in English, arguably more so than all/MOST of you UH-Ha'Mung.  Hmong (perhaps even Mandarin -- at least a year from now), ya-UH-all Ha'Mung cannot even begin to compare  ...  kekeke  ...   

UH-butt-tards, it's probably pointless.  Ya-UH-Ha'Mung cannot even own up to ur UH-DUH-Ha'Mungness  ...  KEKEKE  ...   

[bulbasaur]

Cantonese, is ONLY  (or primarily) native on the island of Taiwan, with a TOTAL population of around 200 million (not absolutely sure but it is MOST definitely NOT 1 billion, or even 500 million -- that is  FACT).

 

/\/\  ...  kekeke  ...   

DUH-UH-ha'Mung ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idiotic Ha'Mung ha'ranting ha'nonsense ha'incessantly ha'again  ...  KEKEKE  ...   

Ha'HINT:
1.  Generally speaking, y'all UH-Ha'Mung can barely speak Hmong (and/or Mandarin), and mainly speak UH-Ha'Mungglish  ...  kekeke  ...   

2.  Cantonese was never part of the equation until UH-ha'ignorant Ha'Mung ha'went Ka-Koo-Koo-Cantonese to try and reprise their UH-Ha'Mungness.

3.  Some/most of ya-UH-Ha'Mung need to be semi ha'edumacated in Hmong/Mandarin (ha'NUT-tards Ha'Mungglish and DUH-UH-Mungdarin) before ha'ranting ha'nonsense ha'again.


4.  You cannot get by with UH-ha'Mungglish and UH-ha'English in Hmong (say in Thailand or Laos for example).

5.  Yes, I am just as fluent in English, arguably more so than all/MOST of you UH-Ha'Mung.  Hmong (perhaps even Mandarin -- at least a year from now), ya-UH-all Ha'Mung cannot even begin to compare  ...  kekeke  ...   

UH-butt-tards, it's probably pointless.  Ya-UH-Ha'Mung cannot even own up to ur UH-DUH-Ha'Mungness  ...  KEKEKE  ...