PebHmong Discussion Forum
Life & Living => Faith & Beliefs => Topic started by: Gracified23 on November 27, 2020, 10:35:13 AM
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I took some time to research Calvinist theology and I would say I’m leaning toward this doctrine more than Arminian.
I used to believe that Christ atoned for all people. I now accepted Christ death is only for the elect and I’ll tell you why.
If Christ died for all people, then that means all people would be saved. If some people end up in hell, then that means Christ death didn’t include them in the atonement. If Jesus Christ suffered for all, but only some people believe and the rest are lost, then that means Christ suffered for nothing.
For example, we read in scripture in 1 Tim that God desires all to be saved right? Does all include everyone? Or only the believers?
Here is where the paradox lies. God desires for all to be saved, but yet He has only elected some. This means that what God has plan is not always what He desire.
Once you study more in depth you will understand why Reformed theology makes more sense.
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Christianty is a white man religion
For hundreds of years
Thousands of years
The hmong people did just fine
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Christianty is a white man religion
For hundreds of years
Thousands of years
The hmong people did just fine
Can you stay out of my thread it’s off topic
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In reformed theology, it is God who work through the sinner and regenerate him unto faith. The reason for this is that unregenerate people cannot have faith. Think about your own life before you came to believe in Christ. The Bible says you were dead in your sins and God made you alive. In the Arminian theology it teaches that your free-will leads you to Christ, which is false. I know I used say that. But if you think about it biblically before the person come to Christ he is still lost. He may have free choice, but he never chooses God because in his old nature he is still hostile and in rebellion towards God. That choice can only be given to them after they are regenerate.
Read the story in John 8 concerning Jesus when He speaks of the Truth that shall set you free. Jesus said if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. Then you’ll know.
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In reformed theology, it is God who work through the sinner and regenerate him unto faith. The reason for this is that unregenerate people cannot have faith. Think about your own life before you came to believe in Christ. The Bible says you were dead in your sins and God made you alive. In the Arminian theology it teaches that your free-will leads you to Christ, which is false. I know I used say that. But if you think about it biblically before the person come to Christ he is still lost. He may have free choice, but he never chooses God because in his old nature he is still hostile and in rebellion towards God. That choice can only be given to them after they are regenerate.
Read the story in John 8 concerning Jesus when He speaks of the Truth that shall set you free. Jesus said if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. Then you’ll know.
What if you are like me
Who never came to christ
I think my life right now is pretty good
House paid for
Beautiful wife
Got cars and money
All these stuff from a non believer
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If Christ died for all people, then that means all people would be saved. If some people end up in hell, then that means Christ death didn’t include them in the atonement. If Jesus Christ suffered for all, but only some people believe and the rest are lost, then that means Christ suffered for nothing.
Where is your proof that people end up in hell???
Or heaven
Cmon now
That just crazy talk
Soooooo
Like me ask you this
Where do the hmong people go when they die
Before the white man religion
???
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What if you are like me
Who never came to christ
I think my life right now is pretty good
House paid for
Beautiful wife
Got cars and money
All these stuff from a non believer
When Jesus died on the cross, He paid the sins and redeem future people (the elect) who is not yet born. The elect will one day come to have faith. But until they believe they are still under God’s wrath like everyone else. Lost people are actually God’s elect who one day will come to have faith in His timing. The others are simply lost and will remain so.
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When Jesus died on the cross, He paid the sins and redeem future people (the elect) who is not yet born. The elect will one day come to have faith. But until they believe they are still under God’s wrath like everyone else. Lost people are actually God’s elect who one day will come to have faith in His timing. The others are simply lost and will remain so.
before the white man french came to laos in the 1900s and start spreading christ around
the hmong people did pretty good man
yeah... they were poor
but they were not like starving or anything
this has goes on for hundred and thousand of years
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/b1/cf/e1b1cf864716200954443c0515607e8c.jpg)
(https://www.twincities.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/wpid-20150306__7hmongjp1.jpg?w=450)
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I think my life right now is pretty good
He call this "pretty good" ;D:
MY LAZY BROKE ASS
He claimed to be an "atheist" but also asked others to "PRAY" for him due to his miserable life ;D:
We great yet????
Still furloughed
Unemployment checks running out this month
PRAY FOR ME YO!!!!!
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I took some time to research Calvinist theology and I would say I’m leaning toward this doctrine more than Arminian.
Cool, knowledge is a good thing so keep on "learning".. 8)
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Can you stay out of my thread it’s off topic
;D hmgROCK was known for his trolliness.
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Soooooo
Like me ask you this
Where do the hmong people go when they die
Before the white man religion
???
Go and research first then let us know what you found out. ;D
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Go and research first then let us know what you found out. ;D
The french came and colonized indochina
Like laos
Forced the hmong to farm opium
Introduced Christ
Before all that
Hmong folks practice shaman
Spirits, monster, yer shao and all that jazz
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I say both Calvinism and Arminianism aren't so different from Jehovoah Witnesses.
- using theology to determine where will we go to after we die
- using the bible to teach instead of words of mouth from actual holy spirit
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Im asking good questions
Since you study christ elect
How do you know us hmong are elected????
What about the one that still practice shaman??
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The french came and colonized indochina
Like laos
Forced the hmong to farm opium
Introduced Christ
Before all that
Hmong folks practice shaman
Spirits, monster, yer shao and all that jazz
Is that all you can find and think of? ;D
I was expecting more. ;D
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Is that all you can find and think of? ;D
I was expecting more. ;D
yeah man
it's a pretty boring beliefs
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Or you're just tucking and running due to the "don't know anything" (per other neutral PH members) factor.. ;D :idiot2: ;D
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Im asking good questions
Since you study christ elect
How do you know us hmong are elected????
What about the one that still practice shaman??
Re-read my last response then you’ll know.
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Where is your proof that people end up in hell???
Or heaven
Cmon now
That just crazy talk
Soooooo
Like me ask you this
Where do the hmong people go when they die
Before the white man religion
???
Heaven and hell are reserved for people after the final judgment. I do not know where the dead of other cultures go before Jesus. The Bible isn’t clear on this. But I think there are a number of ways they are saved and could be possible. God could send them visions or dreams and they could get saved that way. Just like Islamic people who couldn’t hear the gospel but God sends them dreams and visions. I don’t know if that’s how God did it, but it’s a possibility.
In the Old Testament times people were saved by putting their faith in the coming of Jesus and they were justified by having faith even though the atonement hasn’t take place yet. The atonement is a real atonement and that didn’t happen when Jesus died on the cross, it was historical event that took place in the New Testament. When Christ died He pay all of their sins. If it is not a real atonement then He really didn't die for anyone. So, when Jesus died on the cross, He paid the sins and redeem future people who is not yet born. The OT people were saved by looking forward. We are saved by looking backward.
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I say both Calvinism and Arminianism aren't so different from Jehovoah Witnesses.
- using theology to determine where will we go to after we die
- using the bible to teach instead of words of mouth from actual holy spirit
That’s an aweful comparison. The difference between both theology is that in the Calvinism view, the atonement is limited to just the elect. Arminism believe the atonement is extended to all people including Satan. I tell you why this is false, because if all people are included even Satan. But we know Satan will never repent right? Therefore the atonement does not include Satan. Because if it was, then he has to repent. Same for the lost. The “lost” will eventually come to repentance and believe in God’s timing. But the lost will never repent and believe. The atonement is real. Jesus cannot die for the unsaved and the unsaved never believe. Why would Christ atoned for sinners who He knew would never come to believe?
Now you see why Calvinism makes more sense.
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Heaven and hell are reserved for people after the final judgment. I do not know where the dead of other cultures go before Jesus. The Bible isn’t clear on this. But I think there are a number of ways they are saved and could be possible. God could send them visions or dreams and they could get saved that way. Just like Islamic people who couldn’t hear the gospel but God sends them dreams and visions. I don’t know if that’s how God did it, but it’s a possibility.
In the Old Testament times people were saved by putting their faith in the coming of Jesus and they were justified by having faith even though the atonement hasn’t take place yet. The atonement is a real atonement and that didn’t happen when Jesus died on the cross, it was historical event that took place in the New Testament. When Christ died He pay all of their sins. If it is not a real atonement then He really didn't die for anyone. So, when Jesus died on the cross, He paid the sins and redeem future people who is not yet born. The OT people were saved by looking forward. We are saved by looking backward.
Oh geez, brother
A lot of us hmong are still shaman
They brain wash yall good man
If calvin can reform and rewrite the bible
Pretty sure its not original no more
This is from a REASONABLE PERSON THINKING
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Re-read my last response then you’ll know.
Calvin pretty much rewrote the bible to his liking
Kinda like them mormon
Cmon now
Who knows how many times its been changed
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In my opening I mentioned John 8.
31 “Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”
The historical context in these passages is during Jesus time a slave holds no will to let go free unless his owner allow him to go free. Under Roman era a slave is a slave for life. Jesus was comparing a slave to sin. Sin is our master and we are his slaves.
Ask yourself this. Do you think being a slave have free-will to free themselves if they wanted to? I’d say definitely not.
The analogy here is comparing a slave to sin. Since a slave cannot free himself from his slavery, it is the same for us - we can’t free ourselves from sins and need Jesus. Jesus was telling the Jews that their will is enslaved by sin. The Son has to set them free. Notice verse 36.
So now that being said, do you still think you have the free-will? If you say yes, then why do Jesus said He’s the One needed to set us free? In the Arminian view they don’t give God the credit. They think they can come to come on their own because of free-will. That’s not what Jesus say.
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Oh geez, brother
A lot of us hmong are still shaman
They brain wash yall good man
If calvin can reform and rewrite the bible
Pretty sure its not original no more
This is from a REASONABLE PERSON THINKING
Calvin was a Christian theologian during the reformation period of the church. His writings deals with God’s election and predestination which goes back all the way since Augustine in the 300’s. If you want to know the belief of the Christian faith you have to go back to those guys. Those guys didn’t rewrite the Bible or anything. They read the Bible and put together a systematic theology. We still have some of their writings to this day.
Hmong shaman is not even the true form. The real shaman goes back to the native Americans. Or as far back as the Stone Age.
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Shamanism is pretty much like new age movement and mystics. Can Shamanism logically account for the world we live in? How does it account for the creation of the world? Objective moral values like right and wrong, good and evil? Internal critique and showing that only the Christian worldview can account for all these things. That’s what Augustine did. He took Christian belief to a Greek thinking culture in his days and showed that only God can account for all of that. To study church history and not knowing who Augustine is, is like studying the New York Yankees and not knowing who Babe Ruth is. Augustine was a church father he’s consider one of the greatest Christian theologian who ever lived. Many of them came from a pagan background and were monks. It’s fascinating. During the Protestant Reformation period Calvin picked up his work and was influenced by it.
Ever heard the idea of original sin? That idea came from Augustine. He believe that man is dead and cannot have faith because he is fallen. Man will never choose God because he still in rebellion. The only way that he could to God is that it God grant him grace. This is where the idea of doctrine of grace comes from. Not everybody will believe in the Gospel, but only those that God predestined.
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In reformed theology, it is God who work through the sinner and regenerate him unto faith. The reason for this is that unregenerate people cannot have faith. Think about your own life before you came to believe in Christ. The Bible says you were dead in your sins and God made you alive. In the Arminian theology it teaches that your free-will leads you to Christ, which is false. I know I used say that. But if you think about it biblically before the person come to Christ he is still lost. He may have free choice, but he never chooses God because in his old nature he is still hostile and in rebellion towards God. That choice can only be given to them after they are regenerate.
Read the story in John 8 concerning Jesus when He speaks of the Truth that shall set you free. Jesus said if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. Then you’ll know.
If god already predetermine who is going to come to him then why even evangelize? Why even pray for the world or to your family or to your friends? Your prayers don't work if things are predetermined.
If god already predetermine then all them sinful acts to men and evils and natural disaster to wipe out men are all on him. He wanted all of these people dead and this is the kind of god you want to worship?
If god already predetermine then men can not repent because he has no free will. The fool already said it in his heart that there is no god but yet, there are still fools out there like Paul who was a prosecutor of them Christians were able to repent and turned back to god.
If god already predetermine then there is no such a thing as randomness
if god already predetermine for you to go to hell then is it your fault that you go to hell?
if god already predetermine then why did jesus say he died for the whole world? 1 John 2:2—“And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”
If god already predetermine to save some and damn some then what is wrong with this bible verse here that says that there are those who damn but can turn to god and be save? James 5:19-20—“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”
I wish I have the time to talk about theology with you but I don't have the time to do so. Plus, if you think that god predetermine you to go to heaven and I go to hell then there is little to discuss about since well, you going to heaven and I go to hell. The difference here is that if you are wrong, you will have blasphemer against the holy spirit and you are fawk. With that, I say good luck. I also want to make a note that calvanism or Mormonism or protestant all came after the mothership. Men changing the meanings of the bible again.
With that in mind, I bring you this bible verse that shows that your god does not pick who he wants to save and who he wants to be damn cuz to god, he doesn't take a part of the pie, he takes the whole pie. Romans 2:11—“For there is no partiality with God.”
O0
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That’s an aweful comparison. The difference between both theology is that in the Calvinism view, the atonement is limited to just the elect. Arminism believe the atonement is extended to all people including Satan. I tell you why this is false, because if all people are included even Satan. But we know Satan will never repent right? Therefore the atonement does not include Satan. Because if it was, then he has to repent. Same for the lost. The “lost” will eventually come to repentance and believe in God’s timing. But the lost will never repent and believe. The atonement is real. Jesus cannot die for the unsaved and the unsaved never believe. Why would Christ atoned for sinners who He knew would never come to believe?
Now you see why Calvinism makes more sense.
if your god is all powerful and all knowing and all willingly, why not banish satan?
he still gave him a chance. What happened when jesus went praying up that mountain and fasting and satan was there to temp him in matt 4:8-11 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9
"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' [4] "
11
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
He still gave him a chance to repent. A god that I know is all loving and giving everyone a chance to seek him out and repent.
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In my opening I mentioned John 8.
31 “Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”
The historical context in these passages is during Jesus time a slave holds no will to let go free unless his owner allow him to go free. Under Roman era a slave is a slave for life. Jesus was comparing a slave to sin. Sin is our master and we are his slaves.
Ask yourself this. Do you think being a slave have free-will to free themselves if they wanted to? I’d say definitely not.
The analogy here is comparing a slave to sin. Since a slave cannot free himself from his slavery, it is the same for us - we can’t free ourselves from sins and need Jesus. Jesus was telling the Jews that their will is enslaved by sin. The Son has to set them free. Notice verse 36.
So now that being said, do you still think you have the free-will? If you say yes, then why do Jesus said He’s the One needed to set us free? In the Arminian view they don’t give God the credit. They think they can come to come on their own because of free-will. That’s not what Jesus say.
well are black people slaves? What happen here to this black guy who repented? This is fresh news. Isn't he predetermine to be damn? :2funny:
This archbishop has become the first African American cardinal in Catholic history
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/27/world/archbishop-wilton-gregory-cardinal/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/27/world/archbishop-wilton-gregory-cardinal/index.html)
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Calvin was a Christian theologian during the reformation period of the church. His writings deals with God’s election and predestination which goes back all the way since Augustine in the 300’s. If you want to know the belief of the Christian faith you have to go back to those guys. Those guys didn’t rewrite the Bible or anything. They read the Bible and put together a systematic theology. We still have some of their writings to this day.
Hmong shaman is not even the true form. The real shaman goes back to the native Americans. Or as far back as the Stone Age.
He also called himself a "miserable sinner" and this is due part of him having to do with the execution of Michael Servetus
"God is the Father of mercy, he will show himself such a Father to me, who acknowledge myself to be a miserable sinner.
- John Calvin April 25, 1564 (One month before his death.)"
http://www.redeemerbc.org/blog/2009/07/30/i-trust-no-other-security-for-my-salvation (http://www.redeemerbc.org/blog/2009/07/30/i-trust-no-other-security-for-my-salvation)
:2funny:
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If god already predetermine who is going to come to him then why even evangelize? Why even pray for the world or to your family or to your friends? Your prayers don't work if things are predetermined.
There is still the need to evangelize because I don’t know who the elect are. But I know they are out there who will absolutely come to faith because Christ atoned for their sins.
If god already predetermine then all them sinful acts to men and evils and natural disaster to wipe out men are all on him. He wanted all of these people dead and this is the kind of god you want to worship?
If god already predetermine then men can not repent because he has no free will. The fool already said it in his heart that there is no god but yet, there are still fools out there like Paul who was a prosecutor of them Christians were able to repent and turned back to god.
If god already predetermine then there is no such a thing as randomness
Exactly. Look at pharaoh for example. God determined to hardened his heart even before Pharaoh hardened his own heart. Pharoah can’t turn even if he wanted to. Btw, he would not have the desire to repent anyhow. When God regenerate the sinner He gives them the desire to repent. God does all these things. I know we don’t like it but that’s just how it is. God is sovereign and He have mercy on who he have mercy.
I will answer the rest of your questions because I’m on mobile and it’s rough typing.
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if your god is all powerful and all knowing and all willingly, why not banish satan?
he still gave him a chance. What happened when jesus went praying up that mountain and fasting and satan was there to temp him in matt 4:8-11 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9
"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' [4] "
11
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.
He still gave him a chance to repent. A god that I know is all loving and giving everyone a chance to seek him out and repent.
First, Christ atonement is for the elect. The elect will have faith in Christ. Jesus said “my sheep hears my voice and they follow me. You do not follow me cause you’re not mine.”
Second, if Satan can still have his sins forgiven yet still up in hell. Then that means his forgiveness was not included in the atonement. If it’s not forgiven in the atonement, then the atonement actually doesn’t provide forgiveness.
The atonement is real. When Christ died he paid it all, so if people still end up in hell, then it’s not a real atonement and Christ didn’t actually die for that person.
If what you’re saying is true then you just prove universalism :2funny:
The Bible speaks of people being in hell so that can’t be correct.
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Calvin was a Christian theologian during the reformation period of the church. His writings deals with God’s election and predestination which goes back all the way since Augustine in the 300’s. If you want to know the belief of the Christian faith you have to go back to those guys. Those guys didn’t rewrite the Bible or anything. They read the Bible and put together a systematic theology. We still have some of their writings to this day.
Hmong shaman is not even the true form. The real shaman goes back to the native Americans. Or as far back as the Stone Age.
So the dude rewrote the bible to his liking
And you like and study his teaching
Thats what I’ve been saying
Its just a book
Maybe i will write a book too ;D
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Shamanism is pretty much like new age movement and mystics. Can Shamanism logically account for the world we live in? How does it account for the creation of the world? Objective moral values like right and wrong, good and evil? Internal critique and showing that only the Christian worldview can account for all these things. That’s what Augustine did. He took Christian belief to a Greek thinking culture in his days and showed that only God can account for all of that. To study church history and not knowing who Augustine is, is like studying the New York Yankees and not knowing who Babe Ruth is. Augustine was a church father he’s consider one of the greatest Christian theologian who ever lived. Many of them came from a pagan background and were monks. It’s fascinating. During the Protestant Reformation period Calvin picked up his work and was influenced by it.
Ever heard the idea of original sin? That idea came from Augustine. He believe that man is dead and cannot have faith because he is fallen. Man will never choose God because he still in rebellion. The only way that he could to God is that it God grant him grace. This is where the idea of doctrine of grace comes from. Not everybody will believe in the Gospel, but only those that God predestined.
My old folks still practice shaman
They told me a hmong story
about a brother and sister
There was a flood
The brother and sister float on the drum
Once it settled they start tossing stuff
And thats how you get the many hmong clan
;D
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if god already predetermine then why did jesus say he died for the whole world? 1 John 2:2—“And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”
In 1 John 2:2, John is speaking to the Jews about Christ atonement. Jesus satisfy the wrath of God not just for them (the Jews) but also for the whole world. The word “world” in Greek is Kosmos and it means Gentiles.
Not for ours only = believing Jews
The whole world = all other believers (Gentiles)
If god already predetermine to save some and damn some then what is wrong with this bible verse here that says that there are those who damn but can turn to god and be save? James 5:19-20—“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”
When you believe in free-will, you believe you can fall from grace. If you believe in free-will and believe you can't fall from grace then that is inconsistent.
With that in mind, I bring you this bible verse that shows that your god does not pick who he wants to save and who he wants to be damn cuz to god, he doesn't take a part of the pie, he takes the whole pie. Romans 2:11—“For there is no partiality with God.”
Are you sure about that? Because the Bible does say God loves Jacob and hated Esau.
The Bible speaks of God blinding their eyes and not have ears to hear.
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them.”
John 12:40 NIV
One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
Romans 9:19-21 NIV
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Romans 9:11-15 NIV
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So the dude rewrote the bible to his liking
And you like and study his teaching
Thats what I’ve been saying
Its just a book
Maybe i will write a book too ;D
“ was a French theologian, pastor and reformer in Geneva during the Protestant Reformation. He was a principal figure in the development of the system of Christian theology later called Calvinism, aspects of which include the doctrines of predestination and of the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation of the human soul from death and eternal damnation, in which doctrines Calvin was influenced by and elaborated upon the Augustinian and other Christian traditions. Various Congregational, Reformed and Presbyterian churches, which look to Calvin as the chief expositor of their beliefs, have spread throughout the world.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin
“ Saint Augustine, was a theologian, philosopher, and the bishop of Hippo Regius in Numidia, Roman North Africa. His writings influenced the development of Western philosophy and Western Christianity, and he is viewed as one of the most important Church Fathers of the Latin Church in the Patristic Period. His many important works include The City of God, On Christian Doctrine, and Confessions.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo
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There's another bible fanatic. Good grief. :)
Nobody knows when the disciples wrote the books and where they took place. Their stories are their testimony, not ours to copy and become like them.
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First, Christ atonement is for the elect. The elect will have faith in Christ. Jesus said “my sheep hears my voice and they follow me. You do not follow me cause you’re not mine.”
Second, if Satan can still have his sins forgiven yet still up in hell. Then that means his forgiveness was not included in the atonement. If it’s not forgiven in the atonement, then the atonement actually doesn’t provide forgiveness.
The atonement is real. When Christ died he paid it all, so if people still end up in hell, then it’s not a real atonement and Christ didn’t actually die for that person.
If what you’re saying is true then you just prove universalism :2funny:
The Bible speaks of people being in hell so that can’t be correct.
Prove that satan in hell. If hes in hell and Damn for eternity, how the hell was he up in that mountain to temp jesus?
Prove that there are people in hell right now.
Matt 25:41 ....hell was prepared for his Angels n devils
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Prove that satan in hell. If hes in hell and Damn for eternity, how the hell was he up in that mountain to temp jesus?
Prove that there are people in hell right now.
Matt 25:41 ....hell was prepared for his Angels n devils
Satan is not hell bound yet until the end of time. You know that.
Matthew 25 is talking about all the nations will get judged. The believing ones who does righteous are the sheep and can go into God’s kingdom. But the bad ones are the goats. The Bible mention sheep and goats and when Jesus is coming back He will separate them.
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So this calvin guy don’t like the current version of the bible at that time
And decided to rewrite his own version
Oh geez brother
Don’t you see the problem???
The problem is people just making up shyt
SHOOT MAN
WRITE A HMONG BIBLE VERSION
For us
Hahahha
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Maybe god did not created man
But man created god by writing and fantasing all these being in existence
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Speaking of "making up shyt", this PH member nailed with his assessment O0:
sh1t talker? this, I'll have to give you the winning prize. you're the biggest sh1t talker in here.
of course you don't know,
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Duma and gracifed can’t agree on satan and hell....
Maybe one of you can pulled a calvin
And write your own version
Hahahahaha
This is why religion is soooo dumb
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Probably not as "dumb" as this guy though as he got nominated to be the "dumbest" ???:
Maybe I should hire a dumbest person on the planet to argue with him. hmgROCK is definitely hired for the job.
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Duma and gracifed can’t agree on satan and hell....
Maybe one of you can pulled a calvin
And write your own version
Hahahahaha
This is why religion is soooo dumb
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So this calvin guy don’t like the current version of the bible at that time
And decided to rewrite his own version
Oh geez brother
Don’t you see the problem???
The problem is people just making up shyt
SHOOT MAN
WRITE A HMONG BIBLE VERSION
For us
Hahahha
No. They wrote the book so it's their opinions.
Simple analogy: five students listen to the teacher's lecture on Anthropology (Studies of Human Behavior). At the end of the session, each students have to write an essay about what they had learned. Each students have their own opinions about the main topic. None of them were right or wrong. It's a matter of different perspective.
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No. They wrote the book so it's their opinions.
Simple analogy: five students listen to the teacher's lecture on Anthropology (Studies of Human Behavior). At the end of the session, each students have to write an essay about what they had learned. Each students have their own opinions about the main topic. None of them were right or wrong. It's a matter of different perspective.
So
They wrote their own book (calvin, mormon, etc...)
And it got follower
Started their own new religion
Isn’t that proof religion is just man-made stuff???
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So
They wrote their own book (calvin, mormon, etc...)
And it got follower
Started their own new religion
Isn’t that proof religion is just man-made stuff???
I'll let Frank Turek explains what that means.
Errors in the Bible:
https://youtu.be/DB18or8bJ10 (https://youtu.be/DB18or8bJ10)
Which book is correct and how I choose it to believe:
https://youtu.be/d-X1WqENdrc (https://youtu.be/d-X1WqENdrc)
The Apostles were illiterate?
https://youtu.be/CxtpHcb4BP0 (https://youtu.be/CxtpHcb4BP0)
Even Apologetic Christian admits that the historical data in the Old Testament need to be included:
https://youtu.be/EHXKuA9SfnI (https://youtu.be/EHXKuA9SfnI)
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So all these people just made up shyt???
Damnnn
Yall blind or something
Its obvious
I'll let Frank Turek explains what that means.
Errors in the Bible:
https://youtu.be/DB18or8bJ10 (https://youtu.be/DB18or8bJ10)
Which book is correct and how I choose it to believe:
https://youtu.be/d-X1WqENdrc (https://youtu.be/d-X1WqENdrc)
The Apostles were illiterate?
https://youtu.be/CxtpHcb4BP0 (https://youtu.be/CxtpHcb4BP0)
Even Apologetic Christian admits that the historical data in the Old Testament need to be included:
https://youtu.be/EHXKuA9SfnI (https://youtu.be/EHXKuA9SfnI)
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Speaking of "made up shyt", this neutral PH member nailed with this assessment ;D O0:
sh1t talker? this, I'll have to give you the winning prize. you're the biggest sh1t talker in here. of course you don't know,
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Good to know
You can rewrite your own book
And have cult like followers
Remind me of HARRY POTTER
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Your arguments sounds a lot like a leftist-fascist
Your argument makes absolutely zero sense
How is the left, fascist
When the left is antifa
Too funny man
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You haven't seen Dinesh argues a leftist before? Because you sound like them.
how are the left fascist and ANTIFA at the same time?
hahaha
there's a reason why them NAZI wear MAGA hat
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0-ldnkxjypA/hqdefault.jpg)
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Go watch Dinesh D'souza and you will know.
I don’t watch those propaganda
Opinion news
I stick to my local news at 6pm
THIS IS THREAD IS ABOUT CALVIN
HOW YOU CAN REWRITE THE BIBLE TO YOUR LIKING
Doesn’t that ring any bells???
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I was right and so as to Christopher Hitchens who is an atheist, "lazy arguments leads to lazy information."
Watching too many of those one sided alt right YOUTUBE channels
Will corrupt you
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I am no Calvinism, but I am more into Arminianism
Can you share your thoughts about Arminianism? That would be wonderful.
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Lazy!
oh geez brothers...
calling people who don't watch your alex jone youtube video
LAZY
:2funny: :idiot2:
nobody got time for that BULLSHYT
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That guy? He's not even that good. Why compare that than Dunes D'Souza?
Ain’t nobody got time for all that YOUTUBE nonsense BULLSHYT
Sorry
I don’t watch any of those crap
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Because your one-sided dolt.
Thats shyt is fake as hell
Ain’t nobody got time for that YOUTUBE nonsense
Gullible BS
brainwashed you