PebHmong Discussion Forum
Hobbies & Interests => Computer & Technology => Topic started by: jbutton on December 01, 2010, 05:05:44 PM
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If everyone were using Linux, we would never have a large scale DDos attack.
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Where is your evidence to support that statement?
Here is my assumption: if everyone is using linux then there will be a linux ddos type attack because every hacker/script kiddies will be targeting the os.
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Where is your evidence to support that statement?
Here is my assumption: if everyone is using linux then there will be a linux ddos type attack because every hacker/script kiddies will be targeting the os.
Your assumption is wrong. Your assumption assumes Linux is just as weak as Windows. If that were the case, then you have a point.
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How do you know my assumption is wrong? How do you know Linux is not weak? Just because it is not targeted as much as windows, does not mean it is not weak. Let's assume that everyone is using linux, home user's; desktop, laptops, netbooks, enterprises .. etc ... ; there are countless application written for linux like linux office, linux sql, linux blah blah blah. So with that being said, hardly anyone uses windows because it's not user friendly. So now, which os is going to get targeted? Windows or Linux? Where is the DDos going to come from?
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You can't program out stupid user. That's the bottom line. DDOS is stupid user dependant. I cannot imagine a world where Linux with GCC is utilize where a hacker can write code on the fly to do some serious hacking. That is just sick. A hacked linux box is a hacker's wetdream. So to conclude, stupid user on Linux results in even nastier shit; be glad M$ has done a wonderful job trying to program out stupid. Oh don't forget Linux has plenty of kernel bugs.
You want proof?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=linux+exploit
Some of the problems you describe here requires hacker gaining access to the machine. Access to the machine adds another security layer. Most Linux installation do not come with ssh server. Hence, hacker can't get access to the machine. But if you do run your linux box as an ssh server, exposing it to the outside world, hackers may attempt to hack it. Yes, I have see the log of attempts hackers trying to gain access to one of our linux machine. Thousands of attempts a day. And yes, one hacker did get access to our Linux box but it was simply because we have an account the user name and the password are the same. Short, common name, with all lower case letters. Brute force eventually got it. Once the hacker got into our box, there is nothing the hacker can do unless the hacker gain root access. This add another layer of security. Some of the above exploits did mention gaining root access. In another word, hacking a Linux box is hard work.
On Windows, sometimes the user didn't even do anything. And their computer still have stuff installed running without them being aware.
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How do you know my assumption is wrong? How do you know Linux is not weak? Just because it is not targeted as much as windows, does not mean it is not weak. Let's assume that everyone is using linux, home user's; desktop, laptops, netbooks, enterprises .. etc ... ; there are countless application written for linux like linux office, linux sql, linux blah blah blah. So with that being said, hardly anyone uses windows because it's not user friendly. So now, which os is going to get targeted? Windows or Linux? Where is the DDos going to come from?
No, it is because Linux harder to crack. Linux servers power the internet. Linux based routers provides you wifi. There are more linux out there than you think. No one really count. Can you imagine how a virus could possibly survive on Linux? There is almost no chance a Linux virus could survive due to its file and user security on Linux. If a user happen to run a virus on his computer, it is stuck on that computer unable to propagate. Linux and unix are designed specifically for multiusers where one user can't trust another user. Even if another user has cruel intention, unix file security is supposed to protect one user from another. This very design protects one user from another person's application. The linux/unix host is protected from users. Of course, unless the hacker gain root access which makes him God in the Linux box.
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lol ... man jbutton; I don't know what happen to that BS in Computer Science went. Guess you never took the operating systems course. Take that class then get back to this linux is the best because of the mentality that you have ubuntu running on your laptop, desktop at work and at home; thus linux the best. 8v10un30sun hit right on the point and if you still don't understand; I do not know what to say man.
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Linux is only in its infancy and not too many business uses it enough to warrant attacks from cyber criminals...If it was mature like Windows, it will definitely get hammered. More business use Windows operating systems than any other....that's why criminals target it the most...
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Jetter, he's a smart guy...He's just being extremely bias because he has to fix a bunch of his cousin's computer because they are stupid user.
Like Spiderman's Uncle said, "With power comes responsibility ." - Stan Lee
Dumbass users wants admin power so they can install all the programs they want. Of course they can do that as a power user, but that requires speicalize policying and the dumbass user don't know how to implement a good policy. It's expected by the likes of Jbutton that Windows OS should be highly intelligent that it can tell the stupid user not what to do. In the linux world they have Linux admin. At home, the windows admin is the stupid user. In my 21 years of using M$ product since MS-DOS, I've never been hacked once. I've downloaded my share of trojan virus but that's because I was being a stupid-user not scanning a file before executing it. I'm intelligent enough to know my system is compromise to fix it, but some users are so stupid, I swear they shouldn't even be using computers. All they do is surf p0rn and it's no wonder they get crap like that.
I concur...
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jbutton= Fail again. :2funny: reminds me of mac vs pc. :2funny:
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I love windows. O0 jbutton made himself seem like a pro but cant even handle windows. What does that really say about him? :2funny:
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lol ... man jbutton; I don't know what happen to that BS in Computer Science went. Guess you never took the operating systems course. Take that class then get back to this linux is the best because of the mentality that you have ubuntu running on your laptop, desktop at work and at home; thus linux the best. 8v10un30sun hit right on the point and if you still don't understand; I do not know what to say man.
Windows and Unix had different design goals. Windows for a single user and Unix for the network and untrust multi users environment. Security was always part of Unix. Linux inherit the design goals of unix. Windows have improved in security by adopting many of the security features found on Unix. You know have file permission and user management on Windows vista and Windows 7. If you always think Windows and Unix has the same level of security then there won't need a need for Windows to adopt any of Unix security scheme. In another word, linux and unix by default are far far more secure than Windows simply because of the environment and goals these operating came to be.
I never had a BS in computer science. But I did take operating system. I assume your operating system course talk about Windows? While ours talk about BSD and unix. Is this why you seem to think every computer is like Windows in terms of security. I on the other hand compare ever other operating system with unix operating systems.
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I'm not even talking about stupid users yet.
If you leave a windows machine online and never touch it again and it will eventually become a zombie. Can you say the same thing about Linux?
As for users, yes Linux is even more dangerous for stupid users. If a user look through forums and start executing commands post in those forums.. he might ended wiping his drive. Suppose he saw something like this: to improve the performance of your operating system, sudo rm -rf /
And suppose a stupid user unleash a virus on his computer. The virus is stuck on his computer unable to move to any other computers.
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The market share argument is nonsense.
There are more macs now than in the 90s. Yet, there are no virus for mac now but there were many in the 90s. It's simply because it is harder to write say virus for the current mac than the old macs. A virus simply can't propagate on a unix like operating system.
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I love windows. O0 jbutton made himself seem like a pro but cant even handle windows. What does that really say about him? :2funny:
I love windows when it comes to gaming.
But hate it when it comes to user interface and security.
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Windows and Unix had different design goals. Windows for a single user and Unix for the network and untrust multi users environment. Security was always part of Unix. Linux inherit the design goals of unix. Windows have improved in security by adopting many of the security features found on Unix. You know have file permission and user management on Windows vista and Windows 7. If you always think Windows and Unix has the same level of security then there won't need a need for Windows to adopt any of Unix security scheme. In another word, linux and unix by default are far far more secure than Windows simply because of the environment and goals these operating came to be.
I never had a BS in computer science. But I did take operating system. I assume your operating system course talk about Windows? While ours talk about BSD and unix. Is this why you seem to think every computer is like Windows in terms of security. I on the other hand compare ever other operating system with unix operating systems.
My bad for assuming you have a bs in cs. The OS course talks nothing but about unix not even linux; so you can be sure I am not against *nix. Heck my laptop runs linux, my desktop runs linux, the servers at work run linux, my vps runs linux, I've been running linux since RH 2.0. I know about linux and where it is use, so you do not have to educate me on that topic.
If everyone were using Linux, we would never have a large scale DDos attack.
Your argument is true about linux and windows now; heck osx runs on *nix; but how does that relate to your original statement when everyone is using linux? When this happens what then? Linux will not be targed since everyone is using linux? What os is the script kiddies/hackers going to play with?
I am just trying to understand your logic here. I can't seem to understand it except that somehow your mind is set; you are right; thus everyone else is wrong.
if (jbutton says so) {
it is
}
else{
does not matter
}
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i remember back in the days me a group of users use to scan linux boxes to find pubs. Man those were the days, finding open linux pubs and tagging them for the group to release whatever they want. good time; good times;
but I still don't get jbuttons logic.
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i remember back in the days me a group of users use to scan linux boxes to find pubs. Man those were the days, finding open linux pubs and tagging them for the group to release whatever they want. good time; good times;
but I still don't get jbuttons logic.
what are open pubs? are they open ports?
Market share can means more attacks. But it doesn't mean that if Linux has the same market share, it would suffer the same security problems that Windows does. This is because by nature Linux is more secure. The old days mac suffer more simply because they were so poorly design in term of security. It attracted attacks partly because of it is too easy to exploit. Now there are far more Macs running Mac OS X, yet it is much harder to exploit it. And so even if people try, the attacks are pretty limited and never the scale that was seen with the old mac operating system. People simply shift to attack weaker operating systems such as windows. Even if Linux made up 70 of computers on the market, people will like expolit Windows because it is far easier. Exploiting Linux on the other hand actually requires a lot more skills.
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Jbuton is so funny. "by nature" You talk as if lightning struck the primordial soup and boom linux came about.
I don't know the right word. What word do you suggest I use?
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Market share:
the mac users of the 90s were no more stupid than the mac users of today. In fact, today with the internet everywhere, users are more exposed and more likely to make security mistakes. The macs of the old days relies on floppies and local apple talk network. yet, the macs today (running a Unix based operating system) has less security issues than the macs of the 90s (single user system). a great operating system protects stupid users from themselves (to some extend). There were virus, trogans, and malware for the old macs but almost none for the new macs. Why? Because it's really really hard to write an effective virus for the new macs. Surely, if it is market share is all that matter, the new macs should at least have hundreds virus for it like there were for the old mac operating systems. But there is no known virus that can do much damage on the new macs.
User stupidity:
user's stupidity is even more a thread with shared computers. you share your Windows pc at home with your siblings. You can't know what they will do with it. you can't even assume they are smart and will do the right thing when they saw a message like scan your hard drive for virus. My cousin's little daughter was just playing flash games and barbies online and nude pictures start popping up on their computer. With Linux, you can feel free about it knowing they could only mess their account, but not the linux installation. You can even let your sibling act stupid.. be stupid.. of course, if you are stupid, that's another problem. but I do hope Linux will somewhat protect stupid users with root access from themselves.
we are all glad that Windows have made huge improvement in security. But there is much is needed.
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Every operating system has its flaws...weakne ss....why ? because it's designed by humans.......
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sun and joot,
You both are right. but I could imagine how much less DDos attack would be had everyone use Linux. DDos software still needed to be install on the victim's computer. This step is a bit harder to do on Linux than on Windows. Even if users on Linux are stupid, executing a file requires the file having an executable bit set. But then there are things like ruby script that can download another script and execute it if the user enter the command as told by a wrong doer. I just feel that stupid users have allow hackers to hijack the internet for spamming to ddos attack. Linux and unix derivatives are the best options to prevent such thing.