PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Debate Central => Topic started by: bulbasaur on June 03, 2015, 06:55:53 PM
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Because some idiot keeps stalking me to start a discussion about it....
I am in the camp that DC generally beats Marvel because the average DC character is more cosmic. Marvel tends to be more "human." That is probably the reason why Marvel movies are doing better. Of course, if we look at the most powerful beings in both universes, then it all balances out. Marvel has Galactus, but DC has the Endless ones. I usually ignore the most extreme beings and just look at the mainstream heroes both publishers headline.
Here are a few match ups. I'll continue it later.
1. JLA vs. Avengers. JLA and it is not even close. Superman alone can beat them. The only guy who stands a chance might be Thor because he is sorta magical. However, if Wonder Woman can pick up the hammer, then so can Superman.
2. JLA vs. X-Men. The X-Men have a better chance of beating the JLA. X-Men have psychic attacks, and many JLA members have fallen to psychic attacks. However....
3. JLA Dark vs. X-Men. X-Men would probably have a hard time with magic.
More as they come.
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So why ignore the most cosmic beings? Because the argument becomes stupid.
Galactus eats worlds. He can eat an infinite amount of Earths and create a big crisis for DC. However, Superman can just go around punching Earths 1-616, and Galactus would starve. But then, everyone dies. So Death from DC wins. But then we Marvel's Death too! Now it is Death vs. Death. And so on and so on....
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/57796695.jpg)
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Because some idiot keeps stalking me to start a discussion about it....
I am in the camp that DC generally beats Marvel because the average DC character is more cosmic. Marvel tends to be more "human." That is probably the reason why Marvel movies are doing better. Of course, if we look at the most powerful beings in both universes, then it all balances out. Marvel has Galactus, but DC has the Endless ones. I usually ignore the most extreme beings and just look at the mainstream heroes both publishers headline.
Here are a few match ups. I'll continue it later.
1. JLA vs. Avengers. JLA and it is not even close. Superman alone can beat them. The only guy who stands a chance might be Thor because he is sorta magical. However, if Wonder Woman can pick up the hammer, then so can Superman.
2. JLA vs. X-Men. The X-Men have a better chance of beating the JLA. X-Men have psychic attacks, and many JLA members have fallen to psychic attacks. However....
3. JLA Dark vs. X-Men. X-Men would probably have a hard time with magic.
More as they come.
Avengers would win. I agree that it will come down to superman vs Thor. Thor would win easily because of superman's weakness to magic. Superman cut himself so easily when he ran his finger across wonder woman's magical sword. Also your logic behind wonder woman being able to lift the hammer resulting in superman also being able to lift it is flawed. The enchantment is for those who are worthy. Just because someone fights for good, doesn't automatically mean he/she can lift it. Superman is actually not worthy. There was only one time that he grasped the hammer, and it was only because Thor threw it and superman held on to it and used the momentum.
(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/SupermanHammer.jpg)
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/21012/438453-1.jpg)
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I like this picture. Superman vs Gandalf. Superman bows down to magic.
(http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/superman-vs.gandalf.jpg)
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Sorry. I wrote all of this in haste because of some idiot. I didn't really mean pick up, but hold, deflect, etc. This is mainly because Thor would be throwing his hammer or swinging his hammer in a fight. After all, picking up a hammer is kinda pointless in a fight.
And Avengers wouldn't win. And it wouldn't come down to Superman vs. Thor. First, it is questionable if Thor can even beat Superman. But let's give Thor the win. How can Thor beat Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and Aquaman? He loses his "magic" advantage, and he is not even that magical to begin with. For it to come down to Supes and Thor, all the other JLA members need to be taken down.
All the other Avengers either don't stand a chance, or are at best equals. Batman can take out Hawkeye and Black Window by himself. What is Cap going to do when GL puts him a ball and throws him into space? Flash will just run circles around everyone. Iron Man vs. Cyborg would be more interesting. Hulk is strong, but almost all of the JLA have a way to counter him.
Let's not forget the "Superman Power Theory." Superman is always as strong as he needs to be. This pretty much means that he has no limit to his powers. This is also the reason why Superman needs to get re-written every couple of years.
And who do you want making your fight plan? I take Batman any day over any of the Avengers. Who is going to outsmart Batman? Given the JLA as a resource, do you really think Batman can't think of a way to beat the Avengers? The guy has shark repellent.
That being said, if you read enough comics, almost everyone has done some crazy powerful thing that puts them over the top. I mean....Batman dodged Darkseid's Omega Beam? Really?
Avengers would win. I agree that it will come down to superman vs Thor. Thor would win easily because of superman's weakness to magic. Superman cut himself so easily when he ran his finger across wonder woman's magical sword. Also your logic behind wonder woman being able to lift the hammer resulting in superman also being able to lift it is flawed. The enchantment is for those who are worthy. Just because someone fights for good, doesn't automatically mean he/she can lift it. Superman is actually not worthy. There was only one time that he grasped the hammer, and it was only because Thor threw it and superman held on to it and used the momentum.
(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/SupermanHammer.jpg)
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/21012/438453-1.jpg)
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These What Ifs fights are always dubious because everyone in both universes has done some crazy powerful stuff. Running through time or inheriting God-like powers. I think I said earlier that Supes can destroy a planet, but Thor can too. Now it is a question of who can do it more easily. The powers of each character also varies by the writer, so it is not even consistent. What If and Elseworld stories are fun, but these versus scenarios are secondary to the actual stories of the heroes...at least to me.
Is it chido?
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Anyway.
Who from marvel that's not omnipotent can beat Superman Prime (one million)?
- One above all don't count cause he's basically a supreme god and omnipotent.
Maybe a thanos with all infinity gems will put up a good fight?
-ignoring the "batman beats everyone" logic.
- for any JLA vs Avengers, Scarlet witch is ignored cause her powers are just as OP as "batman logic."
People have argued Hulk can easily take them all out. But nah. as strong as hulk is and as strong as hulk gets when he's mad. Superman still has him beat. He has strength speed, and he also has brains. Something hulk often lacks when he gets mad.
JLA vs Xmen. it varies on how strong Jean is I guess. Phoenix saga, then umm.. I don't know.. JLA might just lose.
Wolverine - meh. he's nothing. superman can just take him out.
cyclops - meh. he's not much.
realistically, Professor X could pose a huge threat since no one really wears a helmet in JLA.
Ones I would love to see.
Doctor Fate vs Dr. strange... though I'd probably give the edge to fate, his powers seems limitless when compared to strange.
Hulk vs Solomon Grundy
btw. careful now. The goku guys will be coming and saying Goku beats superman.. which meh, superman still wins.
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DC beats Marvel because he's BATMAN!
This has really become a parody of itself. Batman apparently can't lose. Sure he is just human, but he's BATMAN! Going up against a fleet of invading aliens? No problem. He's BATMAN! Broken back thrown into a hell hole without proper medical equipment? No problem. He's BATMAN! So he is going up against the entire Marvel Universe. No problem. He's BATMAN!
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/\/\ ... kekeke ... :2funny:
Batman <-- in his BatArmor, which is clearly illustrated in every DC comic/animation being nothing more than over Johns (or polyester tights) has taken straight punches, plasma blasts, and outright weapons to the face from the likes of Darkseid, Bizarro, Killer Croc, Baine, Armored Lex, Grodd, Sapphire/Sinestro, Blk Adam, etc. and walked away without a scratch, even subduing these super villains with his "Bat Nuke/All-purpose Spray" he pulled from his aRse. ( :idiot2:) Heck! Batman is even more powerful/invincible than Superman (as Superman clearly gets bumps and bruises, and even his suit -- arguably of Kryptonian origin/material -- is shredded more times than not) ... KEKEKE ... >:D
This is another reason why DC is just pure "BS/garbage".
As for the "argument that Batman is a pure strategic genius" ... kekeke ... from whom (a Mastermind/Genius) and where (training facility) does he acquire all that knowledge/insight? Oh yeah! From his "Bat-belt/cave" ( :idiot2:)
At least with the X-men, they train repeatedly in the "Danger Room" for all scenarios/encounters, not only to hone their skills, powers, and teamwork but also their strategies etc.. Oh yeah! They also have one of the GREATEST mastermind/telepath/genius, aka Dr X, as a mentor/strategist, and even a team member or members (Emma Frost, Psylocke who are also telepaths), and namely Jean Grey on their active roster/team in nearly every battle. DUH! ... KEKEKE ... O0 ... 8) (But that is NOTHING compared to Batman's "Bat Nuke/All-purpose Spray" he pulls from his aRse ... ::))
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Batman hears what you say, and he rebuts with...
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111226884/4497900-4095243-9419134058-.jpg)
/\/\ ... kekeke ... :2funny:
Batman <-- in his BatArmor, which is clearly illustrated in every DC comic/animation being nothing more than over Johns (or polyester tights) has taken straight punches, plasma blasts, and outright weapons to the face from the likes of Darkseid, Bizarro, Killer Croc, Baine, Armored Lex, Grodd, Sapphire/Sinestro, Blk Adam, etc. and walked away without a scratch, even subduing these super villains with his "Bat Nuke/All-purpose Spray" he pulled from his aRse. ( :idiot2:) Heck! Batman is even more powerful/invincible than Superman (as Superman clearly gets bumps and bruises, and even his suit -- arguably of Kryptonian origin/material -- is shredded more times than not) ... KEKEKE ... >:D
This is another reason why DC is just pure "BS/garbage".
As for the "argument that Batman is a pure strategic genius" ... kekeke ... from whom (a Mastermind/Genius) and where (training facility) does he acquire all that knowledge/insight? Oh yeah! From his "Bat-belt/cave" ( :idiot2:)
At least with the X-men, they train repeatedly in the "Danger Room" for all scenarios/encounters, not only to hone their skills, powers, and teamwork but also their strategies etc.. Oh yeah! They also have one of the GREATEST mastermind/telepath/genius, aka Dr X, as a mentor/strategist, and even a team member or members (Emma Frost, Psylocke who are also telepaths), and namely Jean Grey on their active roster/team in nearly every battle. DUH! ... KEKEKE ... O0 ... 8) (But that is NOTHING compared to Batman's "Bat Nuke/All-purpose Spray" he pulls from his aRse ... ::))
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/\/\ ... kekeke ... :2funny:
Additionally, "Like Father. Like Son.", there is BatBaby (better known as the whiny Boy Wonder who is barely 0.5 years old), who in his Bat-Diaper has already defeated Superman, Darkseid, Overlord etc by simply pulling a Bat-stinky from his Bat-Diaper ( :idiot2: ... pure CRAP/garbage)... KEKEKE ... >:D
( Yup! The BatBaby is more powerful/Invincible than DGrayson and JTodd -- who arguably have, if nothing, seniority over the Bat-Diaper, but hey them ain't from the same/stupid Bat-nonsense CRAP so of course they are inferior ( ::)) ... kekeke .. :idiot2: )
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I like that hanna barbera indian guy who can make himself really big. While everything on him grows big, his pisser will be big too so he can take out his bat and swing the earth and everything dc/jl in it to the sun and calling it a homerun.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6d/Apachechief.jpg)
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FROM another thread, but DEFINITELY FITTING to be placed/re-iterated here ... kekeke ... >:D ... KEKEKE ... >:D
UNO:
... kekeke ... :2funny:
And then there are these "DC clowns/heroes (garbage) " ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Plastic-Man and Elongated-Man (1 wasn't enuff, so 2 is a perfect match ... :idiot2:)
(http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/200H/f/2013/251/5/3/plastic_man_vs_elongated_man_by_vitaminejjc-d6llq45.png)
Metamorpho (Make that 3, spoke too soon ... ::))
(http://minimatefactory.com/images/customs/DC/Custom_Metamorpho_Minimate3983622214703956588.jpg)
Bouncing-Boy (Does it get any worst ... :D)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e9/Bouncingboy.png)
Vigilante and Shining Knight riding Victory (Yes! Now it's the "Lone Ranger with a 6-shot revolver against machine guys/laser blasters" and an obvious "Middle Age Squire in Middle Age armor/sword riding Pegagus" ... :2funny: ... :idiot2: ... :knuppel2:)
(http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/image/upload/c_fill,h_480,w_852/t_mp_quality/shining_knight-top-ten-dc-superhero-teams-that-should-have-had-movies-before-the-suicide-squad-jpeg-238987.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d0/Shiningknight.jpg/225px-Shiningknight.jpg)
And then ( :2funny:) ... kekeke ... well, u'all get the point ... 8)
DC clearly must be helmed by snot-nose-faced KIDs: creators/artists/publishers -- under 12 yrs old ... KEKEKE ... >:D
DOS:
... kekeke ... :2funny:
Then there are these "DC villains/garbage" ... KEKEKE ... >:D
ManBat (Nope! Batman wasn't good enuff ... a literal "manBAT" makes more sense ... :idiot2:)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/59/ManBatCv3.jpg/250px-ManBatCv3.jpg)
Bane (And while at it, throw in a Mexican lucha (wrestler for y'all HA'Mung. DC's weaksauce variant of HULK, obviously.) ... :2funny:)
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111133725/3890399-4.jpg)
Bizarro (And since DC is into weird-dumb, how about a Super-Frankenstein ... ::) )
(http://www.halfassedpodcast.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/bizarro1-rb-1025.jpg)
White Rabbit, Cheetah (Let's not forget the "Playboy Bunny" and a "POOseey" while it is still ROCKHARD to STIFFEN our fanboys' fetish ... >:D)
(http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130106194539/villains/images/3/34/The_White_Rabbit_(DC).jpg)
(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID50432/images/resized_cheetah.jpg)
Grodd, Mxyz (Now, now ... DC loves "animals", per PETA, and "midgets" too ... :2funny: ... :idiot2:)
(http://www.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_4054/subcat_6648/joe2.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/Mister_Mxyzptlk_cover.jpg/220px-Mister_Mxyzptlk_cover.jpg)
(NOTE: Mxyz is practically a God -- practically unstoppable/invincible -- except, well, if you can trick/convince him to say "Rumplestiltski n", then he is DOOMED! StOOpid ( :idiot2:), but true ( :2funny:) ... ::) )
Just to name a few of "DC's dumbest/lamest villainy". What "powers" does the "Playboy Bunny" have? Oh yeah, she can lick/suk/ride you to death -- literally -- super hero or heroine ... KEKEKE ... >:D
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Someone tell marvel to release good games.
MUA 1 and 2 were great! too bad they stopped with that. Haven't really seen much since then.
TASM, the gameplay, wasn't bad. the game just wasn't good overall.
-not like DC is doing better. all they really have is the arkham series. But the arkham series is AWESOME.
... kekeke ... :2funny:
It is "BATman" ... duh ... KEKEKE ... >:D
(Even the "Lego Batman" game was AWESOME (no joke ... O0) ... kekeke ... 8))
Though not groundbreaking, arguably, the Spidey games (the ones based off of the movies that is) aren't too shabby ... ;)
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Batman.. time to plan + JLA's seemingly unlimited resources = game over.
Alone. Batman might not be able to take them all on. But that's never part of his plans. Just like in JL:Doom (tower of babel) it's never about batman beating all of JL, it's batman with the help of others, proper preparation, taking them all down. Even in TDKR where people got the idea "batman can beat superman." The plan wasn't to solo superman, but use everything available to weaken superman, which he did. He used what's her name, Kerry (?) and the tank as a distraction, Green Arrow and the kryptonite arrow, electricity, the robo suit and so on.
So yea. I agree. Batman will be the ultimate strategist and help them win.
Avengers.. I can't think of anyone with that kind of strategist mind.
X men... Maybe cyclops? Though that's still a bit of a stretch.
I'll give you some clues.
He is a war veteran.
He usually only use one weapon.
He uses a round weapon both defensively and offensively.
He wears a costume that use the same colors as the flag of the United States of America.
One thing that the avengers have over JLA is that "he" unlike batman is a better leader and team player. It's basically like having the charisma of superman and the brain of batman in one.
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I'll give you some clues.
He is a war veteran.
He usually only use one weapon.
He uses a round weapon both defensively and offensively.
He wears a costume that use the same colors as the flag of the United States of America.
One thing that the avengers have over JLA is that "he" unlike batman is a better leader and team player. It's basically like having the charisma of superman and the brain of batman in one.
Good imagination but you are also wrong. IF you want to know, ask the creator of those characters and they will let you know by writing you a comic series.
Your imagination means nothing. What matters is what them creators thinks. You are not that special so leave the imagination station to little kids.
ta da O0
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Good imagination but you are also wrong. IF you want to know, ask the creator of those characters and they will let you know by writing you a comic series.
Your imagination means nothing. What matters is what them creators thinks. You are not that special so leave the imagination station to little kids.
ta da O0
I'm shocked. I never imagined you to take in my thoughts so deeply and passionately. Apparently I am getting some things through to you after all. So I'll say this, thank you for thinking that my thought was so special that you took time out of your life to respond to my post. ta da O0
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I'm shocked. I never imagined you to take in my thoughts so deeply and passionately. Apparently I am getting some things through to you after all. So I'll say this, thank you for thinking that my thought was so special that you took time out of your life to respond to my post. ta da O0
Don't stop imagining and superman, batman, aquaman, spiderman can not beat What's up man.
ta da O0
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Don't stop imagining and superman, batman, aquaman, spiderman can not beat What's up man.
ta da O0
And What's up man can't beat Thor. ta da O0
Still FAILED. O0
(http://strategicedge.ca/backend/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Apu-Thank-you-come-again.png)
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I would still take Batman's JLA over Cap's Avengers.
Batman is probably the better strategist. At best, Cap is equal. I wouldn't go as far as to say better. Batman can apparently figure out a strategy for anything. It has become so absurd that it has become a parody of itself. In fact, even the comics recognize this by calling him "detective." They call him that because he can apparently solve anything.
Cap may be a better team player, but that probably won't have much influence in the fight. Batman is still well-respected, and the JLA rarely has problems during a fight. The same goes for the Avengers. The Avengers argue (even fight) among themselves quite a bit, but those things have very little influence in a fight because the Avengers always come together to fight the big fights. Both teams always show up and work together when they need to. Their individual relationships outside of the mission won't affect either team.
If this is going to be a battle between Batman's JLA and Cap's Avengers, I would still take the JLA.
Maybe we need to break the teams down. Let's look at their most popular lineup...
JLA
Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Flash
Green Lantern
Aquaman
Cyborg or Martian Manhunter (depending on which one you take as canon)
Avengers (with an extended roster)
Iron Man
Thor
Captain America
Falcon
Hank Pym
Wasp
Hulk
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Quicksilver
Scarlet Witch
Namor
Black Panther
Vision
With an extended roster, Avengers have a chance, especially with Scarlet Witch. However, if we let the Avengers have Scarlet Witch, then JLA should be allowed some of their magic characters. And then, we start down the argument I said earlier about how things will just snowball into some crazy Universe vs. Universe argument.
A more fun argument would be JLA Cinematic vs. MCU. Thor and Superman aren't overpowered. Batman isn't absurdly perfect. There is no long history to figure out. Etc.
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/\/\ ... kekeke ... :2funny:
Quicksilver, Namor, and Black Panther tecnically are not an Avenger. (True, they had a short stinch in being a member, but that is just how Marvel mix and match every now and then, like how they are putting in Spidey as a member presently.) The original/founding members never had these lone wolves. And do not forget there are actually TWO Avengers team -- East and West Coast; thus there is still Wonder-Man, Hercules, Mocking Bird, Tigra, and others (the on and off members like Human Torch, Spider-woman, Moon Knight, Silver Surfer, Dr Strange, and even Wolverine etc.).
For sake of argument, we will just focus on the core (original/founding) members of JLA Vs Avengers.
JLA:
Superman
Wonderwoman
Batman
Green Lantern
Flash
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter
Avengers:
Caps
Thor
Hulk
Iron Man
Hawkeye
Wonderman
Tigra
Scarlet Witch
Mocking Bird
Vision
Hercules (Like Thor, he is a God. Unlike Thor, he is 1 of Top 10 most powerful, at 5 or 6.)
Wasp
Antman
Given this original roster, with the exception of Superman, it is pretty clear how JLA will fair ... KEKEKE ... >:D (And arguing all the NEW or recent powerups of each/both teams is just ludicrous, because both teams are invincible at that point, even Batman ( :idiot2:), a la the "Hellbat armor", which according to the comics, if he uses too much or overuse can make him mental, or drain his life away towards death -- so says the comic.)
But just for kicks and giggles, here is my take of JLA Vs Avengers (<, >, =, >=, or <=), as they were originally, minus all the ridiculous/dumb powerups nowadays.
Superman >= Hulk
Superman <= Thor (because it known/given Superman is weak/bows down to magic.)
Superman < Hercules
Caps, Ironman > Batman (whatever "BS" being argued in Batman's favor is just :idiot2:)
Wonderwoman > Mocking Bird (she's human, no real super powers)
Wonderwoman >= Tigra
Wonderwoman <= Wonderman
Wonderwoman < Scarlet Witch
Green Lantern > Hawkeye, Wonderman
Green Lantern < Vision
Flash > Caps, Hawkeye
Flash < Hulk, Thor, Hercules
Aquaman < Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Vision
Martian Manhunter >= Vision
Martian Manhunter < Hulk, Thor, Hercules
Bottom line, it is the team with the MOST UMPH! JLA technically only has Superman in this case. But as stated, and is confirmed in the comics -- per DC -- Superman is weak/loses against "magic" which both Thor and Hercules possess and are, being mythical Gods. Recall -- per DC, Superman can, was, and is defeated by Shazam/Captain Marvel and Black Adam, who are super hero of magic -- created by magic. The only survivor I foresee in the JLA should these two teams face off in a "Death Match" is the "Flash" simply because he can RUN AWAY/OFF into another universe/timeline, if he doesn't get trapped by the Scarlet Witche's magic/telepathy first ... KEKEKE ... :2funny:
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Hasn't it already been established that you don't know much about comics? :idiot2:
If you only want to argue the founding members, the Avengers have a really small roster and it's not fair to the Avengers. Iron Man, Pym, Wasp, Hulk, Thor. NO CAPTAIN AMERICA.
If you want to argue all the different versions of the Avengers, then you open up the door to all the different versions of the JLA. JL Europe. JLA Dark. JL International. JL Elite. JL Task Force. JL United. And on...
I told you an argument of this nature will just begin to get stupid. Look at all the people now involved. It will soon just become an universe vs. universe argument.
And also, you need to work on your reading comprehension. You're whining and arguing with something I already said. Anyways, you're not worth my time. I'll just let Batman reply to you in the future. :2funny:
/\/\ ... kekeke ... :2funny:
Quicksilver, Namor, and Black Panther tecnically are not an Avenger. (True, they had a short stinch in being a member, but that is just how Marvel mix and match every now and then, like how they are putting in Spidey as a member presently.) The original/founding members never had these lone wolves. And do not forget there are actually TWO Avengers team -- East and West Coast; thus there is still Wonder-Man, Hercules, Mocking Bird, Tigra, and others (the on and off members like Human Torch, Spider-woman, Moon Knight, Silver Surfer, Dr Strange, and even Wolverine etc.).
For sake of argument, we will just focus on the core (original/founding) members of JLA Vs Avengers.
JLA:
Superman
Wonderwoman
Batman
Green Lantern
Flash
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter
Avengers:
Caps
Thor
Hulk
Iron Man
Hawkeye
Wonderman
Tigra
Scarlet Witch
Mocking Bird
Vision
Hercules (Like Thor, he is a God. Unlike Thor, he is 1 of Top 10 most powerful, at 5 or 6.)
Given this original roster, with the exception of Superman, it is pretty clear how JLA will fair ... KEKEKE ... >:D (And arguing all the NEW or recent powerups of each/both teams is just ludicrous, because both teams are invincible at that point, even Batman ( :idiot2:), a la the -- "Hellbat armor.)
But just for kicks and giggles, here is my take of JLA Vs Avengers (<, >, =, >=, or <=), as they were originally, minus all the ridiculous/dumb powerups nowadays.
Superman >= Hulk
Superman <= Thor (because it known/given Superman is weak/bows down to magic.)
Superman < Hercules
Caps, Ironman > Batman (whatever "BS" being argued in Batman's favor is just :idiot2:)
Wonderwoman > Mocking Bird (she's human, no real super powers)
Wonderwoman >= Tigra
Wonderwoman <= Wonderman
Wonderwoman < Scarlet Witch
Green Lantern > Hawkeye, Wonderman
Green Lantern < Vision
Flash > Caps, Hawkeye
Flash < Hulk, Thor, Hercules
Aquaman < Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Vision
Martian Manhunter >= Vision
Martian Manhunter < Hulk, Thor, Hercules
Bottom line, it is the team with the MOST UMPH! JLA technically only has Superman in this case. But as stated, and confirmed in the comics -- per DC -- Superman is weak/loses against "magic" which both Thor and Hercules possess, and are being mythical Gods. Recall -- per DC, Superman can, was, and is defeated by Shazan/Captain Marvel and Black Adam, who are super hero of magic -- created by magic. The only survivor I foresee in the JLA should these two teams battle in a "Death Match" is the "Flash" simply because he can RUN AWAY/OFF into another universe/timeline ... KEKEKE ... :2funny:
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Hasn't it already been established that you don't know much about comics? :idiot2:
If you only want to argue the founding members, the Avengers have a really small roster and it's not fair to the Avengers. Iron Man, Pym, Wasp, Hulk, Thor. NO CAPTAIN AMERICA.
If you want to argue all the different versions of the Avengers, then you open up the door to all the different versions of the JLA. JL Europe. JLA Dark. JL International. JL Elite. JL Task Force. JL United. And on...
I told you an argument of this nature will just begin to get stupid. Look at all the people now involved. It will soon just become an universe vs. universe argument.
And also, you need to work on your reading comprehension. You're whining and arguing with something I already said. Anyways, you're not worth my time. I'll just let Batman reply to you in the future. :2funny:
... kekeke ... :2funny:
U fur-gutz JL-Unlimited (for sum-1 ... :idiot2: ... who claims/thinks they know the comics) ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Not to mention, this sum-1, has a reading comprehension psychosis, as it was clearly stated; " ... orginal/founding team members ... " ... DOLT! ... kekeke ... 8)
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Too ignorant to even list the founding members correctly. Please. :idiot2:
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A more fun argument would be JLA Cinematic vs. MCU. Thor and Superman aren't overpowered. Batman isn't absurdly perfect. There is no long history to figure out. Etc.
If it's this, then marvel wins easily.
Let's look at a couple matches.
Thor and ironman vs superman and batman
Compare Thor beat the frost giants, chitauri, and ultron's army easily. Superman struggled against the kryptonians.
Ironman superior tech vs batman. Batman's most powerful arsenal, small missiles from bat mobile. Ironman was shot by a tank and rised up with little to no damage. Win goes to marvel.
Thor and Cap vs superman and batman
Thor vs superman same as above.
Captain America fought Nazi soldiers, alien warriors, and robot army. Batman only fought street criminals, mercenaries, and trained assassins. Win goes to marvel.
Wolverine vs batman
Wolverine's accelerated healing power and near indestructible adamantium skeleton vs batman's fighting skills, batarangs, and armor. Both of them do have elder and wiser partner(s) to help them. Batman only have allies to guide him with surveillance, where as wolverine has, the most powerful psychic on earth (X-Men reality) that has the power to control and/or freeze anyone before they could even get close to wolverine. Wolverine heals too fast for batman to do any real damage. Marvel wins again.
Besides, wolverine survived many gunshots including one to the head, getting stabbed, getting thrown through a house and being "burned" by Jean. Batman, well he did survived getting bitten by dogs.
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You can make that argument, but...
1. X-Men don't count for the MCU. X-Men exist in their own little Sony Universe. And as far as it seems, the MCU and the Sony Universe don't crossover. Even Spiderman will be a different Spiderman.
2. If we consider the 80's films, then Superman has some crazy powers. He apparently has kisses that cause amnesia. Which also leads us to why Superman in the comics can almost not be beat. He keeps getting more and more absurd powers. That being said, you probably aren't talking about those old movies....Man of Steel maybe.
3. Superman in Man of Steel is untested. We actually don't know if he has a weakness to magic yet. Judging just from the movies, Superman and Thor seem similar in strength.
4. Those Kryptonians in Man of Steel were pretty powerful.
5. Batman vs. Cap is closer what what you may think, but that is probably due to inconsistency in the writing. Cap took a blow from Thor, but Cap had trouble fighting hand-to-hand with that one guy on the ship in Winter Soldier. I understand Cap's shield not breaking, but Cap was still somehow strong enough to hold it up. Cap should have been crushed by the downward force. Since Cap wasn't crushed and he still had some trouble fighting the guy on the ship, that means that the shield must have some crazy force resistant properties. In hand-to-hand fight, Bat vs. Cap becomes closer. Movie Bats is already a master of several fighting styles. MCU Captain America is not. In fact, MCU Cap doesn't seem to have much fighting training at all. Did Cap somehow get trained in fighting between The First Avenger and Winter Soldier? I see this as a coin flip. Bats being the better fighter, and Cap being more physical. I am taking brains on this.
5. You left out Green Lantern. It was an awful movie, but he was quite powerful.
6. Are we counting Jonah Hex? :2funny:
7. What about the TV shows that are apparently going to be movie canon as well?
All of that being said, we probably can't even count Batman anyways. The Batman trilogy might be their own thing. Man of Steel might be the start of DC's new universe, so even GL won't count. DC may only have Superman at this point.
If it's this, then marvel wins easily.
Let's look at a couple matches.
Thor and ironman vs superman and batman
Compare Thor beat the frost giants, chitauri, and ultron's army easily. Superman struggled against the kryptonians.
Ironman superior tech vs batman. Batman's most powerful arsenal, small missiles from bat mobile. Ironman was shot by a tank and rised up with little to no damage. Win goes to marvel.
Thor and Cap vs superman and batman
Thor vs superman same as above.
Captain America fought Nazi soldiers, alien warriors, and robot army. Batman only fought street criminals, mercenaries, and trained assassins. Win goes to marvel.
Wolverine vs batman
Wolverine's accelerated healing power and near indestructible adamantium skeleton vs batman's fighting skills, batarangs, and armor. Both of them do have elder and wiser partner(s) to help them. Batman only have allies to guide him with surveillance, where as wolverine has, the most powerful psychic on earth (X-Men reality) that has the power to control and/or freeze anyone before they could even get close to wolverine. Wolverine heals too fast for batman to do any real damage. Marvel wins again.
Besides, wolverine survived many gunshots including one to the head, getting stabbed, getting thrown through a house and being "burned" by Jean. Batman, well he did survived getting bitten by dogs.
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/\/\ ... kekeke ... :2funny:
A/the DC fanboy/girl grasping at straws ( in both comic and movie) analysis and end results ... KEKEKE ... >:D
( EZ quick KILL of Superman, JL strongest and sole contender, destroy the sun -- the source of his powers. Same goes for GL's lamp, the source of his power ring. No MU hero has such a dumb weakness, or dependency/requirement ... 8) )
Who did Bats beat in hand combat? Oh yeah, Bane who broke his back in round 1 and left him crippled. Bats only won round 2 by breaking his inhaler, yet even struggled to overtake Bane.
And for the record, Caps beat the ship guy including ALL, or most of the entire ship thugs single handed ... Dolt!
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Man of steel superman has a weakness that is very costly. That weakness is the environment of krypton.
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And Krypton doesn't exist in Marvel, so it's not really a weakness Superman would have against Marvel. Marvel isn't going to have any Kryptonite.
It should be noted that MCU Thor isn't really that strong. Thor looks like he is only just as strong as Iron Man and Captain America. MoS Superman looks stronger. However, MCU Hulk looks stronger than MoS Superman. Talk about Hulk...
Which Hulk is even canon? Avengers Hulk looks like a different Hulk from the movies. And each Hulk movie looks like a different Hulk. It's too inconsistent.
Man of steel superman has a weakness that is very costly. That weakness is the environment of krypton.
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(http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/15122307.jpg)
/\/\ ... kekeke ... :2funny:
A/the DC fanboy/girl grasping at straws ( in both comic and movie) analysis and end results ... KEKEKE ... >:D
( EZ quick KILL of Superman, JL strongest and sole contender, destroy the sun -- the source of his powers. Same goes for GL's lamp, the source of his power ring. No MU hero has such a dumb weakness, or dependency/requirement ... 8) )
Who did Bats beat in hand combat? Oh yeah, Bane who broke his back in round 1 and left him crippled. Bats only won round 2 by breaking his inhaler, yet even struggled to overtake Bane.
And for the record, Caps beat the ship guy including ALL, or most of the entire ship thugs single handed ... Dolt!
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Did they change it again? Maybe TV/Movies are separate now, or maybe that was a rumor to begin with. I don't always follow the rumors.
I think DC might make MoS the starting point in their universe. Which means Nolan's Batman is non-canon. If MoS is the starting point, then I am not sure how i feel about it. MoS wasn't really that good.
Completely forgot about Jonah Hex. But then I don't know much about him.
Which TV shows are canon and in the same shared universe as the movie?
IIRC. Arrow and flash aren't. Haven't heard much word on Supergirl. Izombie is something else.. Gotham, well that's a different pile of turd.
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As someone who's read comics from both companies, I lean heavily towards Marvel. One of the reasons why has to do with how people can relate to them. I was an avid reader of X-Men in the 90s. I identified with their struggle because of our people's own struggles with prejudice. Sure both had powers but their struggles were different.
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DC and Marvel tell slightly different stories.
Marvel (generally speaking) likes to focus on humanity while making very strong parallels with today's issues. For example, the entire relationship between Beast and his "human" girlfriend at the time. That was clearly a jab at the gay marriage debate.
DC will tell stories that are on the cosmic/mythical level. Timelines falling apart. Time travel. Alternate Earths. Space. Aliens invasions. One super team vs. another super team.
That being said, both DC and Marvel have their versions of all these stories. It just seems that each company tend to focus on one more than the other. I like them both equally.
As someone who's read comics from both companies, I lean heavily towards Marvel. One of the reasons why has to do with how people can relate to them. I was an avid reader of X-Men in the 90s. I identified with their struggle because of our people's own struggles with prejudice. Sure both had powers but their struggles were different.
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DC Cinematic is kinda messed up...which might actually work out for a good Crisis story. However, I think DC is too dumb to figure that out.
Yea I think so.
There were rumors about a separate flash film not canon with the series, with different stars.
Even Suicide Squad isn't going to be canon. Rumors are: That's why Deadshot supposably died offscreen. And Katana kind of had a weaker roll. It's also rumored to be why the Harley cameo went nowhere.
MoS wasn't awesome. But it wasn't terrible either. It was slightly above average..
There's a wikipedia page about the DC shared universe and it does start with MoS. but its wikipedia so we take it with a grain of salt.
IMO. Even though nolanverse was a good trilogy. It'll be more challenging to fit it in the shared universe since he attempted to make everything so realistic, doesn't fit in any super powered friends and foes.
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And Krypton doesn't exist in Marvel, so it's not really a weakness Superman would have against Marvel. Marvel isn't going to have any Kryptonite.
It should be noted that MCU Thor isn't really that strong. Thor looks like he is only just as strong as Iron Man and Captain America. MoS Superman looks stronger. However, MCU Hulk looks stronger than MoS Superman. Talk about Hulk...
Which Hulk is even canon? Avengers Hulk looks like a different Hulk from the movies. And each Hulk movie looks like a different Hulk. It's too inconsistent.
... kekeke ... :2funny:
"Magic" most definitely exist in the MU -- the likes of Thor, Hercules, Dr Strange, and Scarlet Witch etc.. And per DC, Superman is a weaksauce against "magic", easily overcomed and defeated by Shazam/Capt Marvel and Black Adam as already noted in an earlier comment/post. DC fanboys/girls are/is clearly ignoring (and being ignorant of) this DC fact. DOLT! ... KEKEKE ... >:D
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(https://community.wbgames.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/5934i769CD4D713E9BFC6?v=mpbl-1)
... kekeke ... :2funny:
"Magic" most definitely exist in the MU -- the likes of Thor, Hercules, Dr Strange, and Scarlet Witch etc.. And per DC, Superman is a weaksauce against "magic", easily overcomed and defeated by Shazam/Capt Marvel and Black Adam as already noted in an earlier comment/post. DC fanboys/girls are/is clearly ignoring (and being ignorant of) this DC fact. DOLT! ... KEKEKE ... >:D
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Just to make a correction but X-Men and Fantastic Four film rights belong to Fox and not Sony.
Sony has the film rights to Spider-Man but now Disney and Sony are teaming up together like Disney and Universal to bring Spidey into the MCU (via Captain America 3: Civil War) like how they did The Hulk.
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I can't remember who owns all the rights anymore. I just know they are separate. The Spiderman movies haven't really been super awesome, so it is understandable that they would negotiate. X-Men has been pretty good lately. I am not sure if Fox is willing to give them up. After all, Fox didn't give up Fantastic Four, and only the first FF was decent. Talk about FF...
I hope the new one is good, but it seems unlikely. Dr. Doom a blogger? There is great source material, why do writers feel like they must put their own twist on it. It seems like some pretentious writer/blogger who simply wanted to make Dr. Doom a blogger. FF are heroes. They should be in the MCU. But, I'll hold off judgement...
Just to make a correction but X-Men and Fantastic Four film rights belong to Fox and not Sony.
Sony has the film rights to Spider-Man but now Disney and Sony are teaming up together like Disney and Universal to bring Spidey into the MCU (via Captain America 3: Civil War) like how they did The Hulk.
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This leads the question of which is the worst, X3, FF2, or Spidy3.
I didn't hate FF1 as much as most people. The "superhero-ness" of the plot was lacking, but I enjoyed seeing the characters interact. It's just odd to see Captain America be Human Torch too. That's like Ryan Reynolds. He plays GL and Deadpool. He could get away with it since those are two different universes. However, he also plays Hannibal King in Blade. Maybe Blade doesn't exist in the X-universe or the MCU, but he should. That would be awesome.
Xmen has been good overall. sure 3 wasn't great. but overall its still watchable compared to the likes of Fantastic four 2.
I wonder how much marvel would have to pay to buy back xmen, spiderman, and whatever else they don't own..
I'm sure if Disney wanted to, they could buy it all back. they are Disney after all.
The first 2 didn't set much of a Bar... First one was decent, although the fight with doom was garbage. can't really call it a fight.
But we'll see.. It can't be much worse right?
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Blade is probably the reason why the MCU exists. People seem to think that it was X1 that gave confidence to making big comic book movies (especially for Marvel), but it was actually Blade.
Since the demise of the Superman and Batman franchises, studios didn't want to take on comic books anymore. Blade came in 1998 and showed how awesome comic book movies could be if taken seriously. Almost every comic book movie since has taken the approach of "What if they were real?"
Before Blade, even TMNT were going downhill. We had to settle with movies like Tank Girl, Mystery Men, Power Rangers, Steel, The Phantom.
There were some good comic book movies around this time too. The Crow, Spawn, Men In Black. Talk about MiB, that movie probably deserves some credit along with Blade for boosting Marvel...even though MiB was really a Malibu comic.
It was just the end that was meh to me.. "johnny go supernova" and that's about it. :(
could've been a longer and more interesting fight overall. didn't care much about the superheroness.
I would say. the other two made X3 look good in comparison. Bit of a toss up. I'm not sure which I'd choose.. emo peter or Galactus Cloud.
- most people probably didn't even know blade was marvel.
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Battle of the Suits
Iron Man vs. Steel vs. X-O Manowar vs. Lex Luthor vs. Dr. Doom vs. Samus vs. Megaman vs. Master Chief vs. Robocop vs. Terminator vs. Cyborg vs. Vision
Battle Royale of the mechanical suits. Not sure if Terminator and Vision belong in the fight since there aren't any "human" parts.
I am probably missing more suits. I suppose we could always throw in Batman.
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Are you talking sheer power or are you talking about stories/characters/development? Marvel is way more successful than DC these days.
If you're talking Cosmic beings Marvel has a lot of very powerful ones like Galactus, Thanos, Apocalypse, Silver Surfer, Beyonder, Captain Marvel, Death...to name a few. There are more but they're not as well known as the DC ones.
DC has only a handful of characters I actually like or care about, Marvel has way more. However Batman will probably be one of my fav all time characters.
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I don't think we can go sheer power. Otherwise anyone could just say Superman wins because well, superman is superman. His powers are always different each time.
You make good points and I agree about the DC animated movies, they are decent to pretty good. I can't agree with you about the movies though as Marvel has made huge hits out of characters that weren't huge before like Iron Man. DC has yet to find a good way to make their characters more appealing to audiences, they failed with their Superman remakes. The only good franchise movie DC has had in the past 10 years was Nolan's Batman trilogy.
To me Marvel characters are just more appealing as a whole over the DC ones.
Superman is weak against magic and has been beaten many times, I believe Shazam can beat him.
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I liked MoS.
Dark Knight Rises... meh. I didn't really like it. It was good. But maybe its cause Bane wasn't really bane. He just felt too watered down.
They should try to not be all dark and realistic with some characters. Let them flesh out like in the comics. I want to see Bane with his venom tank. Not the one nolan gave us. I liked it for it's script, not for it's realistic take.
IDK, MoS did not feel like a Superman movie to me. It felt like a Batman movie, starring Superman.
I also didn't like the last installment of Nolan's Batman series but it was better to me than MoS. MoS felt like it was a moody indie drama then went to Dragonball level craziness. Also Superman killing someone, not what I'm used to and not what Superman would do. I appreciate different takes on characters but this one felt like, oh Batman was successful cause it was dark and gritty, let's also make Superman dark and gritty.
The TV shows blow to me, they are all just "ok" and nothing special besides the fact that some minor characters I like pop up now and again. I though Daredevil on Netflix was the best and it was still just ok to me.
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to me MoS kind of shows the difference between Batman and Superman.
While both will do whatever it takes to save others. Batman will do his absolute best to not kill anyone regardless of what they do, while superman if he has to, will kill.
The dark and gritty was a bit annoying. Yea I agree there. And BVS feels like a batman movie too. Not really a superman movie. maybe thats where they think the money is at. the darker take on heroes. But really it is kind of hit or miss. I say, it works with batman because he's a flawed human being with alot of mental issues. There's no denying he still suffers from grief over his parents death, he may have a split personality or just multiple personality, and he very much does have a hero complex. Superman on the otherhand, you could almost name the same things. But it doesn't go too much into detail about this stuff. So he's kind of just there.
Well DD benefits from Netflix. So it doesn't have to be toned down for regular television channels. so there's that. It helps that they can introduce alot of violence and go all batshit crazy.
Arrow season 2 and flash season 1 are the better seasons to watch.
I'm hoping Legends of Tomorrow is good. It looks promising as an action series. story wise, it's kind of eh from the trailer.
Back in my day I was a huge comics fanboy, the only one I knew of. lol
To me Superman also isn't supposed to kill, it's cemented in the mythology of Superman. They picked the right guy to be Superman, they just picked the wrong director/storyline.
I never got into the Flash or Green Arrow because I was never a fan of their characters, they were just side characters to more exciting ones like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. I gave Green Arrow a shot but it was just OK, I know it's TV and they have to cut some stuff out but he went from chump to hero too quickly.
The Flash I've only seen a few episodes of, I might give it a shot but as of now I have very little time to watch anything these days.
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1. I am not really sure which company is "more successful." DC has been in print longer than Marvel. However, Marvel may be financially worth more right now. Marvel may have more of the print market right now too. That being said, I don't really care who is more successful. I wish that they are both successful because that is just more for me to enjoy.
2. As far as the success of storytelling, that is subjective. I like both, but I understand if people like one over the other.
3. As for who has the more powerful characters...i t doesn't matter. If we continue down this route, the argument gets really stupid. We'll end up at Death, but both companies have their versions of Death. So, which Death is more powerful? Or, Marvel even met God, who was in the form of Jack Kirby. DC has God and Jesus, too. Now it becomes some comic book religious debate. DC's God and Jesus vs. Jack Kirby. We might as well sit here and argue Christianity vs. Buddhism.
Are you talking sheer power or are you talking about stories/characters/development? Marvel is way more successful than DC these days.
If you're talking Cosmic beings Marvel has a lot of very powerful ones like Galactus, Thanos, Apocalypse, Silver Surfer, Beyonder, Captain Marvel, Death...to name a few. There are more but they're not as well known as the DC ones.
DC has only a handful of characters I actually like or care about, Marvel has way more. However Batman will probably be one of my fav all time characters.
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1. I am not really sure which company is "more successful." DC has been in print longer than Marvel. However, Marvel may be financially worth more right now. Marvel may have more of the print market right now too. That being said, I don't really care who is more successful. I wish that they are both successful because that is just more for me to enjoy.
2. As far as the success of storytelling, that is subjective. I like both, but I understand if people like one over the other.
3. As for who has the more powerful characters...i t doesn't matter. If we continue down this route, the argument gets really stupid. We'll end up at Death, but both companies have their versions of Death. So, which Death is more powerful? Or, Marvel even met God, who was in the form of Jack Kirby. DC has God and Jesus, too. Now it becomes some comic book religious debate. DC's God and Jesus vs. Jack Kirby. We might as well sit here and argue Christianity vs. Buddhism.
Yeah it is a highly subjective question for sure. I do think Marvel is worth way more than DC at this point though.
I actually didn't really get into Marvel or DC too much when I was younger though. I preferred Image, Valiant and Darkhorse comics because they were edgier.
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BTW, Superman does kill. He is just reluctant to. Batman has a much stricter code. That is kinda the fun dynamic between the two. Superman killed Doomsday. Superman has killed Brainiac. And even though people were really upset at MoS for letting Superman kill Zod, it wasn't even the first time Superman killed Zod. Superman killed Zod in the comics. Superman even killed Zod in the old Christopher Reeves movies.
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BTW, Superman does kill. He is just reluctant to. Batman has a much stricter code. That is kinda the fun dynamic between the two. Superman killed Doomsday. Superman has killed Brainiac. And even though people were really upset at MoS for letting Superman kill Zod, it wasn't even the first time Superman killed Zod. Superman killed Zod in the comics. Superman even killed Zod in the old Christopher Reeves movies.
What? As I recall in the Reeve's Superman movies he banished Zod in the mirror to some other dimension or something.
I guess it's been a while since I've read a Superman comic, to be honest I didn't read his comic too often. I was more interested in Batman and darker, grittier comics from other companies.
The last time I read Superman was when I was 10 and he was just killed by Doomsday. I bought one of those issues and had it sealed in the bag for ages.
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In Superman 2, Superman gets re-powered in the chamber. He steps out. He crushes Zod's hand. Then he throws him down a pit. Zod never comes back. At this point, Superman could have easily just taken them to jail since they didn't have powers anymore, but he chose to kill them. At least in MoS, Zod had powers and was in the process of killing innocent people. Of course, we could argue that MoS Superman could have just flew up, or covered Zod's eyes, or a number of other things besides breaking Zod's neck. Here is the clip of Superman killing Zod from Superman 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0)
Heck, he might have killed Lex Luthor in that movie too. He just left him at the North Pole. Of course, we could assume that maybe Zod and friends and Luthor lived because Superman went back to save them. But Zod and friends did fall in that creepy pit. We could argue that the pit was just 3 feet deep and they weren't hurt, but we never see that.
There is a version of the film where Zod and company are escorted by some police force, but that doesn't seem to be the final cut. This could be an argument of canon. In any case, Superman does kill. Here is the end of his fight with Doomsday.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eokQte82hOA/UL1AsvdwteI/AAAAAAAADJI/sO6iTwRJga0/s640/Hero-Envy-Superman-vs-Doomsday3.JPG)
What? As I recall in the Reeve's Superman movies he banished Zod in the mirror to some other dimension or something.
I guess it's been a while since I've read a Superman comic, to be honest I didn't read his comic too often. I was more interested in Batman and darker, grittier comics from other companies.
The last time I read Superman was when I was 10 and he was just killed by Doomsday. I bought one of those issues and had it sealed in the bag for ages.
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Sups is/was a cold hearted killer before he took up the red, white, and blue banter starting around the 70s. This is clearly evident in his earlier comics per antics, beatings, and laissez faire handling of criminals/powerless humans ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Bats, arguably a sadistic psycho, doesn't kill because he revels/ejaculates in pleasure breaking bones, blooding/bruising faces/noses, and hearing grown men squeal as he hangs them over a 50-story ledge in ecstasy ... KEKEKE ... >:D
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In the Reeves movies, superman killed all his enemies except for Lex Luthor.
Let's not forget that the early comics of batman, he did carry a gun.
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Are you sure it's not a non-lethal gun? It may be like kevlar bullets, stun darts. lmao
(http://media3.giphy.com/media/jHnEtZRwLtRL2/giphy.gif)
I don't think he would be using kevlar bullets with that gun.
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It is not really fair to hold those old comics as canon anymore, especially when it comes to DC and Marvel who continually retcon everything.
For Batman, they didn't even think of an origin until after they started printing. The idea of not killing and not using guns probably has more to do with the creators not wanting to kill off their good ideas for bad guys. Looking back, it worked because Batman has arguably the best rogues gallery. Which brings the a fun argument: Who has the best rouges gallery?
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Best rouges gallery contenders off the top of my head...
Spidey
X-Men
Superman (kinda)
Fantastic Four
Flash
Daredevil
I am probably missing some, but I think Batman, Spidey, and X-Men are up on the top. Superman would be up there, but there hasn't been a good Superman story for a while, so he kinda has fallen off a bit. The same goes for Fantastic Four.
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Smartest Person Challenge.
Who is the smartest person in each universe? And how do they match up? Does Forge really count since his "intelligence" is a power?
Off the top of my head...
Marvel's Big 4: Richards, Stark, Banner, Pym. Doom. I suppose Beast. Forge. Sinister.
DC sports Batman, Luthor, Mr. Terrific. Cyborg seems to be moving on up. Maybe Riddler. The Atom. Toyman.
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The more I think about it, I am going with Reed Richards as the smartest, but he is also one of the least accomplished since he doesn't focus on any one thing. Thus, that brings him down. For DC, I feel it is a tie between Mr. Terrific and Luthor. Batman can probably be as good as either of them, but he is focused on other things.
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Marvel Cinematic vs. Sony Marvel Cinematic
It's not even close after the Fan4stic movie.
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I am not sure if X1 and X2 still holds up, but they might be as good as the Thor movies. Maybe Avengers 2? Maybe the Cap movies? I really enjoyed Guardians and Avengers 1.
Unlike most, I didn't like First Class as much as others. It was good, but I don't feel it's at the top of best comic book movie.
Blade needs to be introduced into the MCU. That would be so much fun. This would be such a great way to introduce zombies and such. Plus, it would be fun to see Blade's serious personality clash with the Avengers.
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So why ignore the most cosmic beings? Because the argument becomes stupid.
Galactus eats worlds. He can eat an infinite amount of Earths and create a big crisis for DC. However, Superman can just go around punching Earths 1-616, and Galactus would starve. But then, everyone dies. So Death from DC wins. But then we Marvel's Death too! Now it is Death vs. Death. And so on and so on....
All Galctus has to do is force Superman from yellow sun and light gravity... he's done. O0
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It's been a while since I actually posted a DC vs. Marvel battle, so let's do...
Ultron vs. Amazo
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Marvel Villains vs. DC Villains
I've always liked this battle. A hero is often defined by his rogues gallery. It doesn't even have to be a fight. It can just be who has a better and more interesting gallery. Many people like the Marvel heroes, but what about the flip-side?
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Flash has only recently been featured in the mainstream. Flash has always been a great character for comic fans, but everyone else is finally coming along. I am surprised you didn't list Grodd.
For a good Flash debate, try debating who is the best flash (It's like arguing the best GL). Most people might say Barry, but there are a lot of Wally fans, especially those who started reading in the 90's. Then there is Jay and Bart. Even that dude from DC 1 Million is fun. He is here and there, but I would like to see more stories with him.
Batman and flash's rogue are probably the two that gets talked about the most.
Captain cold.
Glider
Mirrormaster.
Weather Wizard
Zoom
Reverse Flash
Captain Boomerang
Cobalt Blue
And then we all know most of Batman's rogues gallery.
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What? No. Batman/Catwoman hands down. Batman/Talia comes as a better argument. Terry and Ten were never really an item. Terry was just on a semi-rebound from Dana, who is his actual SO. Plus, Terry made it clear that he has no romantic interest in Ten after the letter. Plus, we see that Terry ends up with Dana in a BB episode in the JLU series.
That being said, it would be fun for them to go back and explore that relationship more....maybe when they are in their 20's.
Not DC vs Marvel.. but who do you think is the better pair.
Batman/catwoman vs Batman Beyond/Ten (Melanie Walker)
From the way it's written in the show and from what I've seen in the comics. I prefer the Melanie/Terry. There's more non-batman interactions
or even.
Terry/Dana vs Terry/Melanie
I still would rather go with Terry/Melanie. There's more chemistry there. Dana is annoying. Almost like an annoying Mary Jane clone.
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Barry was popular in the early days and now today. But, there was a time where Wally was the only Flash, and he had some really fun stories. The JLA reboot in the late 90's featured Wally, not Barry. The entire "Speed Force" thing, that was Wally. There are some people who only read Wally stories. Plus, Wally, like Nightwing, grew up with readers. Unlike heroes like Superman who just stay forever ageless, you see Wally's story arc, and that's something special.
Of course, you get the real OG's, and they vote Jay and everyone else on the JSA.
Personally, I am 50/50 between Barry and Wally.
LOL i forgot some, especially Grodd. it's still too early for me. it's only 8:50 so I'm mentally barely awake right now. I also forgot Killer Frost among others. (Can't wait to see her in the show!)
I'm thinking most would say Barry because like me, We mostly only know Barry. Followed by Wally.
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I never liked the Dana character. I never liked Terry's family either. However, I understand the importance of their existence. It's a nice nod to Bruce's work as Batman. Gotham may always need a Batman, but at least this Batman is able to live a somewhat happier life. They just need to explore those stories more.
The reason why I said they can re-explore those stories in their 20's is because it is conceivable that Terry and Dana will seriously break up in the future. Chances are that Dana will go to college, and Terry will choose an "internship" with the Wayne Enterprises. Dana will probably move out of Gotham for a years and start seeing other guys. If I were writing the story, I would make her into a Lois Lane kind of character. During this time, Terry and Ten do their Batman/Catwoman imitation. In their 30's, I would then make Terry and Dana reconnect.
But hey, that's me and my fan fiction.
Right. Didn't think about Talia. That is a better comparison.
The 2 episodes she was in was more enjoyable then the entire season with Dana. She was bad, but not truly bad. Which was interesting compared to Dana who was pretty much always nagging though it's understandable why she nagged.
Would like to see her make an appearance. Though I'm not sure where they can go with it considering most of the "charm" is because of the two of them being conflicted between their jobs and love interest and I doubt she would still be with her family afterwards.
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Maybe in 20 years....sadly . DC is trying to copy and paste the Marvel formula. DC fails to understand that their heroes are different. The first JLA story should be a multiverse story. Throw us for a loop right from the start.
That being said, a good Martian invasion story would be fun, and a great way to introduce Manhunter.
I only loosely follow the comics so I don't know too much. Usually tend to read ones that flows smoothly unlike some Marvel comics that branches out way too much.
You think we'll ever see a live adaptation of Crisis on Earth 3? I want to see a live version of JLA vs Crime Syndicate.
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Oh, Batman is a nutcase, and that is why his villains are what they are. We can sit here and write a book on it. Long story short, his villains represent all of his own personal issues.
Complicated Grief Disorder? Yes.
Obsessive/Compulsive? Yes.
Egomania? Take on the entire JLA? Yes.
The list goes on and on, and there is a villain for each one. Pick a mental disorder, Batman probably has it. This is the reason why Batman has the best rouges gallery.
if the "once and future thing" is anything to go off of, they could really do that. She moves on, and he chooses to stay working for Wayne Enterprises and keep the cowl as part of the Justice League. So he kind of is following Bruce's line of never giving up the cowl. Though they may have to go into details of it.
Reminds me of the mini talk we had in theory a few weeks ago and someone suggested Bruce is still grieving over the loss of his parents. He never truly got over them so he continues to keep himself busy that way he doesn't think about it, kind of like a drug fix. Someone else said he had a sort of Hero Complex where he kept thrusting himself into dangerous situations in order to fight his own inner demons of "If only he was stronger, he could've saved his parents." Neither were comic fans so they based their interpretation on the shows. There were other things mentioned but I don't remember them all.
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Battle for the Cowl was a great story arc. Not sure if the movie will go that route or not. They might mix a few stories.
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Damien isn't bad, but I am just not too fond of him. He seems like a redundant character in the Bat Family. They already did the "rebellious Robin" with Jason Todd. That being said, a fun story would be Damien vs. Terry. Or maybe they should explore the possible future DC One Million presented way back in the late 90's....Was that Damien in the flashback story with Two Face Two? He was described as the son of Bruce and Talia. Did DC really setup the Damien character in 1999? Or is this all coincidence?
Or better yet, a Robin Battle Royale. Tim vs. Damien vs. **** vs. Jason vs. Stephanie vs. Carrie vs. Talon. I feel bad for Carrie. I don't think she is going to make it far.
The recent movies with him aren't great, but they aren't awful either. I rather have something to watch rather than nothing.
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I am actually behind on TV. I've been too busy lately. Even when I have some free time, I find myself not watching TV. I am actually really far behind on lots of TV shows. Some series that I haven't finished yet are Breaking Bad, Lost, BSG....
That being said, I plan to binge watch Supergirl, Daredevil, and Arrow during Thanksgiving. But who knows, other things might come up.
B. what's your thought on Supergirl so far?
I'm enjoying it. It knows when to have fun, doesn't need to be all dark like arrow or try very hard to be something right away like Gotham. It's just slowly building up with alot of emotional bits.
The IM between Kara and Clark in this week's episode was a great moment.
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I am not really shocked by movie or TV story-lines anymore. If you read comics, almost every story has been told. It's just fun to see a different take on it. For example, for Batman Begins, people were like, "OMG! What a creative take on it!" But comic readers read this story from the 80's. Or, look at The Incredibles. To me, it was incredibly predictable, but my friends were so shocked. Of course the kid grew up to be the bad guy. Of course the cape was going to do him in. And of course, Jack Jack has powers...and quite possibly be the most powerful.
I didn't list all the shows I plan to watch. There are just too many. Off the top of my head, I think the order might be....this season's Walking Dead, Agents of Shield, Flash, Daredevil, Supergirl. I might throw in some older shows that I never finished. I am just not that hyped about Gotham. I get the feeling that Gotham Central and GCPD did it better.
Gotham Season 2 is starting off good. season 1 was a snore..
Definitely binge through Arrow Season 3, it was pretty lackluster.
Don't forget Flash. It was a great season 1. Though if you know comics, its quite predictable about what may happen in the season. Season 2 is harder to depict.
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Okay I didn't go through all the verbage because I've seen these discussions before but I'll say this.
I used to be a Superman fan back when I was 8 but as I grew older and wiser, I came to realize that to build a character so powerful that you'd have to come up with something silly like Kryptonite as his weakness so the bad guy stands a chance is not very imaginative. Therefore DC really appeals to very young generations where you wanna see an unstoppable character where as Marvel appeals to a wider audience.
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That's not really true. In fact, it doesn't even make sense. I'd go into the details of why, but it's not worth it. In the end, if you like Marvel stories more, that's fine. Marvel has some really nice characters and stories, but so does DC.
Only silly fanboys would try to argue that one is better than another. Fanboys like to argue Playstation vs. Xbox. Fanboys like to argue Apple vs. Android. Fanboys like to argue Marvel vs. DC. The truth is that there are good (and bad) games on both Playstation and Xbox; there are good (and bad) things about Apple and Android; there are good (and bad) stories from Marvel and DC.
Okay I didn't go through all the verbage because I've seen these discussions before but I'll say this.
I used to be a Superman fan back when I was 8 but as I grew older and wiser, I came to realize that to build a character so powerful that you'd have to come up with something silly like Kryptonite as his weakness so the bad guy stands a chance is not very imaginative. Therefore DC really appeals to very young generations where you wanna see an unstoppable character where as Marvel appeals to a wider audience.
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I love The Dark Knight Returns story, but I am tired of every movie and new fanboy using ONLY this story. There are more Bat stories than this....
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I want to see battle for the cowl.. :/
Make it happen DC.
If they do decide to make it, it will have to be a long wait. They would have to make the Robin movie first. Then slowly introduce the bat family in a couple of movies.
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Battle for the Cowl is a good and fairly recent story. But like someone else said, unless they are doing this just for the comic fans, then it is going to be a long wait because they have to introduce a lot of characters.
Of course, they could always do a re-imagined version of the story; that might be a bit more movie friendly.
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They are all hard to take down because they are all go up against each other. And depending on what you consider canon, some of their powers are ridiculous. A normal person would probably have no chance of taking them down (unless he's Lex). I believe that most superheroes have the chance of taking out another. For example, any magic user can take out Supes, but Supes can destroy planets. Batman can think his way to a victory, but anyone can just break him.
I hope they do a good MM in the movies, but he might get neglected. Casual fans seem to not like him.
I rewatched Doom last night.
And I gotta ask.
If a JLA did go rogue (not mind control). Who would be the most difficult to stop and who would be the easiest?
- let's set aside the continengency plans.
The only prominent JLA I know (not much) are
Supes, Bats, Flash, Wonderwoman, Martian, Aquaman, - and if you include Shazam.
I read some commenters say that in later issues, Superman doesn't go down with kryptonite, it just makes him weaker.
easiest - maybe batman unless the writer turns him into a god with the "Because I'm Batman" trope. It's possible he could have his batcave be filled with booby traps and whatnot. But still very possible.
Flash. I guess, if he does steal everyone's speed. maybe he'll be difficult?
Aquaman (Which one of them can even do anything in the water?), not too sure just how strong he is on land i just know he's not limited to the sea like the jokes claim.
difficult -
Martian Manhunter. - I'm not too sure about the extent of his powers either.
Wonderwoman
superman depending on how kryptonite effects him.
not sure -
Green Lantern is the one I really don't know since his power comes from will and I've read that he's gone toe to toe with kryptonians before. Also read he's created kryptonite from his ring, and even been able to use his ring for lethal/fatal attacks in the sinestro corps war.
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Gleep will take them all down, individually, or all at once ... KEKEKE ...
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I haven't been watching Supergirl. Maybe I will do a marathon during this break.
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Supergirl has had an awful history. They are trying to clean it up now. The only other character with a worse history might be Hawkman. Some people dislike the New 52, but at least it cleans up these kinds of canon issues.
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Nutt-turdZzz gonna-nERds lie-erings. Duh-only reason y we leSSbos r even watching this lame show is buTT-cause of duh-aZZ-mazing yoga-isque wardrobe Kara sports ... KEKEKE ... >:D
MMMmy fav episode is Ep1 or Ep2 where she walks in with her initial aZZ-mesmerizing costome/s, no skirt ( :o) (rewind-n-play like 100x -- where's ZooM-In button?) ... kekeke ... 8)
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1. Barbara as Batgirl is classic. All the other Bat Ladies just be imitating so will the real Batgirl please stand up.
2. The animated movies aren't bad, but the comics are so much better. Maybe the movies aren't that bad for me because I know the comics. Fan service.
3. Books can be written about masks and identities in the DCU. Again, this is the difference between DC stories and Marvel stories. One is not really better than the other. They are just different.
In the end, I liked this little trilogy. Is it the best? No. But I rather have this than nothing at all.
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Bats v. Supes doesn't help DC's argument.