PebHmong Discussion Forum
Life & Living => Faith & Beliefs => Topic started by: Dok_Champa on October 03, 2020, 02:40:50 PM
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He wrote the book of Proverbs. No matter time or space, how long it has been.... or how many lifetimes.. he still remains as the wisest man who has ever lived. Don't need a Psychologist, Psychiatrist, etc... this man is the best of them all. If you take practice his teachings, your life will be fruitful and fulfilled.
His writings are like timeless classic songs - you never get tired of reading/listening.
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Didn't Solomon fell from God's grace because he wasn't doing the right things? Like his father David fell from God's grace as well. ;D
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I also like the book of Psalm written by King David, the best poet who has ever lived (in my opinion).
Yep, we're all sinners. Only one person I know is sinless - Jesus.
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Yes, he did. King Solomon had 1,000 wives. He built temples and started worshiping their gods.
As for King David, he committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed. However, he never really fell out of favor with God the way King Solomon did.
David did fell out of favor with God. David wants to build the temple for God, but that task was given to his son, Solomon instead. ;D
David committed adultery thrice. At first he wed Michal whose daughter of Saul, then secondly he wed to Abigail whose wife of Nabal, then last he stole Bathsheba from Uriah. Prophet Nathan spoke the parable of two men to David, the rich man and the poor man. David was the rich man who had everything including Abigail while Uriah was the poor man who had nothing except his lovely wife. When David heard the truth, he admitted.
Nathan: They are two men in a nearby city. One rich, the other poor.
The rich man has many sheep, many cattle. The poor one has nothing except for one little ewe lamb he's raised up since birth...like it was one of his own children. And yet, the rich man has taken up the poor man's one little ewe lamb to slaughter... and sell as his own.
David: There's only one answer to this. The rich man must give the poor man one whole flock and then he must die.
What was the name of this rich man? I want to know so I can see to his punishment personally.
Nathan: You are that man.
David: What do you mean?
Nathan: God has given you everything: houses, wives, soldiers and a great name among the nations.
If you needed more from him, you had only to ask. Instead, you used the Ammonite sword to kill Uriah and took his wife. Now the sword will never depart from your house. And God has said, "Thou will raise up evil against you out of your own house."
David: [trembling with fear] I have sinned. Does it mean that I must die?
Nathan: You shall not die but the child born between you and the wife of Uriah shall surely die.
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The book of Proverbs is great, but like many a man before and after him, women led to his downfall. :-X
Guess his life wasn't too "fruitful and fulfilled."
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This sounds like one of those subjective opinion outlook/perspective based on the replies so far so just I'll just chalk it up as a depends on the individual scenario as some may find him to be the "wisest" but others don't...
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Not being able to build a temple is small potatoes in comparison to what God did to King Solomon. That was King David's punishment for killing Uriah. God told King Solomon he would take away his kingdom one tribe at a time, and he did. God goes so far as to say it is for the sake of King David that he will save one tribe for King Solomon's son (to rule over). You can read that in 1 Kings 11.
Small potatoes? Lol At least Solomon didn't get killed by God like his father gonna get killed in his own household. For Solomon's case, his kingship and kingdom was stripped away and it was given to someone else and the kingdom was divided into twelve kingdom as twelve tribes.
Abigail's husband died of a stroke before King David married her. King David refused to marry Michal, so King Saul gave married her off to someone else. Eventually King David wanted her back and she was given to him. I'm not sure if that counts as adultery. As for Bathsheba, that's undisputed.
Nabal didn't died by stroke alone. He died by the hand of God. ;D You may wonder why. Nabal recalled Saul has a search warrant for David and he refuse to offer shelter/protection. Abigail did not want to be part of snitch squad which is why she offer flock of sheep and barrels of food to David in an exchange of humble hospitality. If anyone dares to harm David will eventually die in the hand of God. That's the result of Nabal's fate.
God didn't tell both Abigail and David to marry. They wed off on their own. According to hebrew law in the ten commandments, " thou shall not to covet your neighbor's wife." I guess that time period both of them haven't read scrolls lately. ;D :knuppel2:
King David repented of his sin (of killing Uriah). God spared him but still killed his first child with Bathsheba. Again, nothing so much in comparison to getting the kingdom taken away. In 1 Kings God tells King Solomon to repent two times, but he did not. God mentions taking away the kingdom but not during King Solomon's time for the sake of Jerusalem and his servant (King) David. This clearly means King David was still in God's favor.
God was about to strip away his kingdom if he continues to commit more adultery and heinous crime like lying in the eye of God.
In order for David to be accepted again, he gotta fast three days straight and pray constantly until God gives him a new heart. :P
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King Solomon may be wise, but his stubbornness not to follow the Hebrew law was his downfall.
Samson may be the strongest man, but his foolishness by trusting his enemies cost his life dearly.
God don't care about appearance or talent. He sees what in his heart whether he faithful or obedient.
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King David lost his firstborn with Bathsheba, but they had King Solomon right after. So even though God punished King David, he also gave him King Solomon, who would rule over Israel despite the fact that King David had other sons who were born before him.
Again, per 1 Kings 11, God repeatedly says King Solomon did not keep his commands the way King David did. This should be proof enough that King David never feel out of favor with God the way King Solomon did.
Also, King Solomon's descendants remained Kings...Just not over all the tribes of Israel. The tribe of Judah followed King David's descendants. God gave ten tribes to Jeroboam. (I'm still trying to figure out where the 11th tribe went. lol)
That doesn't mean they committed adultery.
Aren't all deaths by the hand of God since he's supposed to be the one in control? Regardless, the point is, King David did not commit adultery with Nabal's wife, nor did he kill him, the way he did with Uriah and Bathsheba.
Please provide biblical reference to this. No where in 1 or 2 Samuel do I see any reference to God threatening to strip away his kingdom. In all of the OT, God always speaks through the prophets. Samuel didn't tell David to stop committing adultery or lying. King David's punishment for killing Uriah (disobeying God) was supposed to be the violent death of his descendants, and his wives be taken away and given to other men (2 Samuel 12). However, Samuel said David was forgiven and that his son with Bathsheba would die. King David fasted in hope that God would have mercy and not kill his son, but after a week his son still died.
It is not about getting a new heart, but of repentance.
Throughout history, God never forgot King David or his faithfulness, so much so that Jesus was a descendant of David.
If Solomon was no longer king and he couldn't bear any more future pure-bred children and his lineage cut off, how can Jesus be the descendant of David. ???
Jesus could be descendant of Jeroboam since he's righteous other than Solomon and David. In the NT, Jesus didn't brag or said he came from David. All he said to the people who mentioned "David" and the Pharisees, I came down from heaven to spread the message.
The reason Jesus was born inside Mary because she has no sinful nature, not just she originate from David. This was why he able to withstand the temptation of the devil. ::)
wallflower, not sure you know what repentance means. Sound like your definition of repentance as "stop sinning". My definition of repentance as "360 degree turn toward to heavenly father". Again, like I said b4 UNLESS David continue on that path wooing any more wives of other men, God definitely will strip away his kingship. God only gives any of his servants one chance to redeem, not two or three. More than that means "lips-ing" (only bark but no bite). Pretty much happened to King Saul, God gave him one chance to redeem but Saul keep on sinning and disobeying.
Isn't Moses and his descendants came right b4 David and Solomon. I'm sure both Abigail and Solomon don't know anything about the ten commandments. That's why they committed adultery. There's no way God allow his servants to sin freely. That'll contradict everything from the beginning to the end of the book. ;D ;D I agree with the people who did have read the bible. The book contained several contradictory beliefs. ::)
In 1 - 2 Samuel, it only talks about how Saul and David got anointed as kings instead of talking about how laws suppose to work. lol
If there's no kings except laws applied then everyone in that time would've gone smoothly. Right?
King David lost his firstborn child can be define as out of favor as well as punishment for taking another man's wife. He don't get to have a first child for free. lol Before Solomon was born, David repent (360 degree turn) to God other than clinging to the materialistic things in kingdom he possess. Fasting help him fight off fleshly desires and praying help him communicate to God without channeling through the prophet.
You said, "God always speaks through the prophets". I disagree with you on that one. Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Jacob, Joseph, and Nebachudneazza r were not prophet but they still get in touch with God. Ony time and place to need for prophets was when mankind failed to repent (360 degree turn) to God. Like in the days of Jeremiah, he was needed to warn his people to stop worshipping other Gods. Also Jeremiah's cousin receive words from God. Sometime God don't directly go to prophets. He goes to everyone if he/she listen willingly.
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This sounds like one of those subjective opinion outlook/perspective based on the replies so far so just I'll just chalk it up as a depends on the individual scenario as some may find him to be the "wisest" but others don't...
You should read the books of proverbs.
And Yes, God is just and holy. There's always a consequence for sinning and only true repentance will follow forgiveness. In the days of King David and King Solomon, they have to do something, perform an act to show true repentance. Ex: Sacrifice an animal, etc.. After Jesus came, he's already the sacrificial lamb.
But yes, God is holy and he will not stand for sin. Sinning will not go unpunished, in the past, today, or tomorrow.
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You should read the books of proverbs.
And Yes, God is just and holy. There's always a consequence for sinning and only true repentance will follow forgiveness. In the days of King David and King Solomon, they have to do something, perform an act to show true repentance. Ex: Sacrifice an animal, etc.. After Jesus came, he's already the sacrificial lamb.
But yes, God is holy and he will not stand for sin. Sinning will not go unpunished, in the past, today, or tomorrow.
Would you kill your children if you hear God's voice telling you to? ???
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God doesn't work like that. God is a loving God and any voice people claim ask them to do such is not from God. Sure, in the Bible there was a story similar but at the end, no killing of any person took place. God made certain of that.
Let me add, you won't find such idea in the book of Proverbs.
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Did you even read any of the Biblical references I made? God never said King Solomon couldn't bear anymore children or that his lineage was going to get cut off. :idiot2: If you read Matthew in the NT it states Jesus' lineage. Jesus doesn't need to brag about being a descendant of King David. He's the son of God .
I think you don't know what repentance means. Repentance is when you have sinned, know it and are sorry about it. You can easily look up the definition if you're confused. Again, I'd like to see your biblical citations to support your claims, otherwise it is simply your opinion on what you think God will do. FYI, God gives more than one chances. If you read about King Solomon in 1 Kings 1, it clearly says God asked King Solomon to repent two times.
Please don't input your opinions if you haven't read the Bible carefully. All Israelites know the Ten Commandments. They carried around the Ark of the Covenant which had the tablets with the Ten Commandments inscribed on them. This was built by Moses in the book of Exodus. You keep bringing up Abigail, and yet she never committed adultery. No where in the Bible does it say she cheated on her husband with King David. King David only married her after her husband died. If you want to argue polygamy as adultery, that's another thread.
If God doesn't allow people to sin freely, doesn't that mean we have no free will? God allows people to make their own choices. When they turn from him and sin, he appeals for them to repent. Time and time again you see this happening with the Israelites.
Of course it doesn't talk about the laws in 1 and 2 Samuel. The laws were clearly laid out back in the book of Exodus with Moses. A covenant was made. They had to carry around the Ark of the Covenant. 1 and 2 Samuel records what happened during Samuel's time as a prophet of God.
The more you talk, the more it becomes clear you don't know what you are talking about. You should probably do more research into who the prophets of the OT are.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QWw4hc5gTnJhY0BUI3/giphy.gif)
Hold your horses, wallflower. I do know what I'm talking about. ;D The bible doesn't contain factual knowledges. It only contain testimonies of those who had dealt with God. I got my sources outside the book. I did met Jesus in California back in 2015. With the helps of God's signs (like sparrow bird land in front of me 3x, long rolls of dead crows lying on the ground when I tried to walk 5 miles under intense heat during summer time, and last very loud thunderstorm struck in front of me 3x) they did help me avoid harlots that I tried to connect with the churches either Mekas, Kaydoo, and Hmoob. Each time they preach from the bible I fall asleep. Not because the pastor was boring, it's my discernment protect me from listening to false teachings. Even my ears turn red and they itched. Why they itched? Too easy and sound too good to get along with harlots that never met Jesus nor heard from God ever will lead me to destruction. God call it "sound mind". I rather listen to God's words through visions and dreams than the bible. <----- "sound doctrine". God got way more information to share than the book that was written by somebody else.
If you don't agree what I referring to David and Abigail's case, not my problem. I'm positive they did have an affair and committed adultery no matter their stories were written or not. Why get so works up if the details about them committing adultery? lol ;D
I did read some biblical references you provided. Some parts in the book of Samuel and Kings have loopholes and they don't connect the dots. Some idiots will accept David's descendants will prosper and Solomon's failure will lead to greater good. There's no evidence Jesus was the descendant of David. Show me where he said he's descended from David in the bible. Then I'll I believe. :2funny:
The definition of repentance you're referring stem from men's perspective, not God's perspective. ;D ;D ;D
If you accept my opinion then it's not my problem.
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So, essentially you have no Biblical sources. I have no problem with opinions. I do have a problem with people trying to pass off opinions as facts. That concludes this discussion.
Actually you didn't respond to my previous question? Where in the passage says Jesus's descended from David? Well, I'm waiting. ;D
In the book of Luke, Matthew, and John all I see was the people who look up to Jesus said he was. Jesus didn't deny. All he did was healing the sicks and spreading the gospels.
Are you saying those who had read the bible really met God and Jesus before in real life?
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Why you had to bring up the genealogy from the OT? That's still not enough evidence support the claim he was descended from David.
I'm still waiting for other passages where Jesus said he was in the NT. ;D
If you don't provide it then I consider you as bible fanatic. :P
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Jeremiah 5:21. :D ;D
Ok bible fanatic. It still not describing Jesus's lineage, but Jeremiah's words describing to heavenly father. ::) :P
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God doesn't work like that. God is a loving God and any voice people claim ask them to do such is not from God. Sure, in the Bible there was a story similar but at the end, no killing of any person took place. God made certain of that.
Let me add, you won't find such idea in the book of Proverbs.
Depends on which version of man written book you've read or believe but since you couldn't answer a simple yes/no question, it means that you won't be able to "sacrifice" for God.. ???
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It doesn't matter what I said because the God I believe is just a fictional character to people who do not believe in the Bible. Do you believe in Yawm Saub/Tswv Ntuj? OR do you believe there's a Creator somewhere, a Creator that gives life to this planet? J/w on your thoughts on the Divine.
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It does because I want to know what would you do in that (sacrifice) situation if it involves you directly since you're a believer. I used to believe in the Christian God and used to attend church regularly but after seeing people at the highest level of Christianity claimed they are 100% devoted to God and the teaching of the Bible do the opposite, I don't any more. Now, I'll need to see/experience solid factual proof first..
Even here, there's folks like BNM that claimed to be devoted and look at what she's spewing.. ;D
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Ok, here's my answer to that sacrifice situation..Let's assume it is GOD w/ certainty, I really don't know what I'll do. Saying is one thing but actually doing it, can't even imagine at the moment.
Anyway, I always say God is God- he never changes. Don't let another human behaviors define God, who he is. Seeing things from God's point of view- He already gave us the "factual proof you're looking for." They're listed in the Bible. AND Jesus came to earth- where people can see, touch, speak to him..
What more does God really need to do to convince people that he is who he is. Does he need to appear every decades to people? Come down and died on the cross every decade for people to believe? Truth be told, even if he did that, people today will still treat him as they did when he first came. They'll say he's crazy.
So the Bible is his autobiography- everything people want to know, all the questions people have, proof, all in there. Some people might say, "I don't believe in Heavan and Hell until it's seen with the naked eye/experience it." Well, God did tell the story of the rich man and Lazarus https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/60682/luke-1619-31-is-the-rich-man-in-hell-or-purgatory
and many people still don't believe.
People can choose to believe or not because believing in God requires FAITH and the Bible defines Faith as "Now faith is the [a]substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen-Hebrew 11:1"
Got to take that leap of faith and God will work the rest.
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Fair enough, thank you for your answer! O0
As far as the other stuff like the "bible" and "Jesus" died and then came back to life, there's no hard factual evidence to prove that exist.
When I say hard factual evidence, I mean God needs to appear in front of people and prove that he is truly God with supernatural power of creation and such. Otherwise, no hard factual evidence, just hearsay from humans...
And it's not just the Christian God, there are many other Gods out there that humans claimed exist like Allah, Buddha, etc., but with no hard factual evidence, it's just hearsay.
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Some have even considered humans that can do this God in the flesh but at the end, there's no hard factual evidence to prove their "miracles" and supernatural power is real, just fake scripted acting in some cases:
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/9a/c5/099ac591da8d270423fe09113c390c9b.jpg)
Keep in mind, I respect all beliefs as long as they don't hurt others but if one claims that his/her religion is real or better than the next, better have hard factual evidence to back it up.. O0
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Ok you're a factual guy and so is God. Look at the heavan, stars up there. How come they don't fall down, crashing down to earth? Yeah, I know what you're going to say..but behind that, who's in charge behind the scene? OR the sun rises and set each day and night, the seasons, an egg and then a few days later a chick emerges from that..amazing right? OR even you - a blob of cell and then 9 months later..eyes,nose, ears, beating heart, feet....abilit y to think, feel, love. Amazing right?
Bottom line: God is a factual God and he made it so so people have no excuses in the end.
He knows people's mind and heart, and this is what he said:
Romans 1:19-21 ESV /
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
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That ain't no fact. There's enough hard evidence that Jesus did exist but none to back up his supernatural powers or miracles..as they portrayed in the man written bible or in the movies..
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So you think they're not fact and they're just natural wonder..like Trump say, "it is what it is" Can anyone, living or dead, make the sun set and sun rises? Turn an egg into a chick? Tadpole into a frog? Created so many beautiful variety of flowers, plants, animal etc. , some of which I'm sure have yet to be found, etc.. AND the most beautiful, popular tourist destinations are usually Natural Wonders..God's creation. Oh, right, you're probably going to say Scientist say it's the GLACIER that carves those Natural Wonder.. yeah but who's in control of those Glacier? Scientists may be able to explain the Phenomenal process and even replicate but God is the driver, the creator. Think of a car - first scientist may see steering wheel and has no idea what that is - gradually they learn that it's to turn/drive the car etc.. and gradually learn all the parts/function of the car and finally, learn to built/put the car together - They only learn what God already created.
There :D :D
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Still zero hard factual evidence...so provide some..and no the man written stuff doesn't count..as hard facts..
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Factual proof: You
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Not me as I don't have *supernatural* powers nor do I claim to have it.
Here's another claim from another religion's man written words:
"According to the religious text of Islam, male martyrs will receive 72 virgin maidens in paradise as a reward for their sacrifice"
If that man written text can be proven true with hard factual evidence, I bet many men will leave other religions such as Christianity to join Islam... ;D
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Not saying you have superpower but you are factual proof God exist.
Now, what does Islam say about sin & redemption? Who created the world? j/w.
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That makes zero sense because I was created with a sperm and an egg uniting..
And there are actual hard factual evidence that have shown reproductions that way...
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That's what i'm saying... how can you come from that and a blob of cell to having two hands, two feet, two eyes, a beating/feeling heart, a thinking mind, etc.. every cell/fiber of you in working working.
We know your parents didn't form you so let's take what you believe - If you were created by sperm and egg - which means they (sperm and egg) form you into the living, breathing, feeling, thinking being you are. Your engineer.
Then who created the sperm and egg? Who engineer them? How did they come to existence?
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And that's what I'm saying..If you claim your parents were created by some super natural being or phenomenon, show the hard factual evidence to prove it.
And yes my parents did in fact "form" me with their cell, genetic, DNA,..like how many other parents form their kids. I'm pretty sure you formed your own children with your cell through sexual intercourse to get the reproduction system process started because there's hard factual evidence to back that up.
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No, not your parents.. the wisest man ever lived.