PebHmong Discussion Forum
Sports Category => Outdoors & Recreational Hobbies => Topic started by: VillainousHero on August 06, 2025, 08:18:09 PM
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BFS Bait Finesse System/Style
= Big Fishing Scam ;D
Or maybe we just got too many internet influencers leading us astray. Anyway it seems like the original concept way back circa mid 2000 when the Japanese were taking a more finesse style of bass fishing as opposed to the stateside of Americans going bigger for bass fishing. Mostly it was lures less then 1/4 oz and current rods of medium or medium light power was at the far end of that finesse system. So mostly it did fall back to spinning gear.
Going way back when I first gotten really into fishing and that St. Croix Premier 6' Light spinning rod. That St. Croix Legend Elite 6' Medium casting rod. Of course it was all about white bass fishing for me. This was as mostly me using 1/4 oz. lure weights. Becuase it worked. I was still using my Stradic 1000FG spinning reels and the hot Curado 50E casting reels. However the Shimano Metenium MG7 casting reels was what really open it up for me. 15# Fireline Braid, 20# Sufix 832 braid on the casting reels was insane by those days standards. You must use at least 30# braid, but standard was 50# braid.
Fast forward to recent today, BFS casting reels. 10# braids on a casting reel is unbelievable. Well it would've equal to old standards of 6# braids but that's becuase mfg. lies and understate actual braid strength to line diameter. Well since BFS rods are now widely available and labled, I'm finding it to sort be a Big Fishing Scam. These rods are so powered closely to ML in power even when labled as Light powered. Now I wonder if I should've looked for UL powered rods. However knowing fishing industry UL rods are moderate action and flimsy in feel. Hopefully that will change in the future. I've always wanted to use a Light powered rod in feel like a spinning rod action design, but just for casting reels. Whose to say that one can't just put a casting reel onto a spinning rod and use. It works just fine, just looks weird. For myself fishing has become more about me playing with lures. Catching fish is just a side effect bonus.
Go Big Go Power.
There was a movement in fishing that was all about upsizing - by bass fishing. By today's niche it's about huge Glide baits and Swim baits, but us white bass fanatics was still stuck in our wallyworld fishing style. I for one thing that as a shore banger would naturally do, go 1/2 oz. lures or larger. Those 1/2 oz. Rooster Tails were secret. Those #5 Mepps spinners were secret. Those 3/4 oz. Kastmasters were secret. 1/2 oz. Super Spook jr. was secret. Bomber Slab Spoon 1 1/4 oz. huge big secret.
When the white bass bite was hot, I wasn't looking for the smaller ones, I was looking for the big ones. Back then it was common to catch 21-23 inches big females. I probably ate state record breaking fish. However in a few short years after word gets out, it became tough to catch even a 19" female white bass. For sure heavier lures can cast further, that's the gist of it. Bigger lures also means only the bigger fish will be able to bite it. As simple logical method, it works too.
My old gear for spinning rods was Cabelas 7' XML in Heavy power. Worked so well, I easily overpowered those white bass. I bring in those big ones like little ones. Stradic 4000FG reels and 50# Berkley Whiplash braids. I had also then gotten a Musky casting rod, St. Croix Legend Tournament 7'3" Medium Heavy rod paired with Shiman Conquest 400 round casting reel 80# Sufix 832 braid. Rod was design to cast 2 oz. lures. White bass was like pulling in baby panfish. They just bite and out of the water they came, sort of. Back then I only needed to fish for like barely over an hour and gotten plenty of fish. No such thing as all morning or even all day fishing.
When people are just doing all looking, heavy power gear hides that one is catching big fish. It just looks like little fish caught.
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these freshwater fish are soooo weak
i use ultra light setup and tired them out
pull them in like a flat piece of wood board
;D ;D ;D ;D
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That's disrespect to those Lake Sturgeons. ;D
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That's disrespect to those Lake Sturgeons. ;D
Rock has never caught a lunker. You can tell. :2funny: :2funny:
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Rock has never caught a lunker. You can tell.
YUP a compulsive serial LIAR like hmgLIAR will continue to "make that stuff up" ... ;D:
yeah i just make that stuff up
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Bobber or Fixed Float style...
We all know this bobber fishing. Probably everyone at one time had used that plastic red and white bobber. If not, you don't know what your missing. Probably not becuase it was cheap and crude. That plastic bobber was the kind that cracked open if you banged onto a rock or even the dam wall. Yeah that damnation of a wall as your're trying to get to that one pocket of slower water. Typical was a slip sinker and some bait like a worm or minnow. The other typical thing was either a jig with rubber plastic or feathered jig. Caught all sorts of panfish and baitfish. Even sometimes huge fish.
Good thing about bobber fishing is keeping the bait or lure off bottom structures or weeds. We know the fish are hiding in the weeds. Well at least we think that.
Float N Fly or Slip Bobber fishing...
This adaptation of bobber fishing involves using a slip bobber stop knot on your line. The concept behind it is mostly to allow a much deeper presentation of the bait or lure, while keeping it to a fixed depth. Typically I say that depth is like 10 to 15 feet deep. This style is a technique that sometimes the fish goes into deeper water during mid day. Often it's when one fishes clear water and the fish do just happen to stay much deeper in the water.
The real strategy behind this is really so one can vertical jig in a spot a lot longer vs without the bobber. Sometimes, it's about having the jig or lure twitch from either rod induced action or just from the waves on the surface.
It doesn't have to be a deeper water strategy. The other adaptation if for real precise fishing. So one would set if up shallow like only 1 to 3 feet deep. The strategy behind this is so one can pull the jig or lure all the way to the bottom stem of the bobber. That way when you pick an open pocker spot in the weeds, without the line dangling off the bobber, the rig can land a precise cast with the lure dropping into the pocket instead of being off and into a weed or reed or stick.
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That's disrespect to those Lake Sturgeons. ;D
sturgeon are soooo easy
there a place about 40 minutes west of green bay
where they swim up next to the shore
sooo close to the shore that you can feel their skin
;D ;D ;D
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sturgeon are soooo easy
there a place about 40 minutes west of green bay
where they swim up next to the shore
sooo close to the shore that you can feel their skin
;D ;D ;D
Does it feel like sand paper? :D
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Does it feel like sand paper? :D
you ever pet sharks and sting ray?? at the zoo before ??
yea it feel like that
leathery kinda of feeling
;D ;D ;D
we have probably the best sturgeon population in the USA
SHHHHHH…. it’s a secret
https://youtube.com/shorts/ENKO7ijJWKY
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here more sturgeon clip
we probably have the best sturgeon in the USA
white people like to kill them for the egg
it’s too magical so i just watch
you gotta come at the right time
usually in the spawn when the water is warming up
;D ;D ;D
https://youtu.be/4EsPz6RHqo4
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Night Fishing
Large Mouth Bass Fishing
If there's one thing about fishing is that the average angler doesn't do night fishing. For one thing, one better not be scared of the dark or let their imagination get them carried away. Sure there are night creatures but mostly it's because of the nocturnal animals are out. The bats, owls, moths, flying squirrels, raccoons, and possums, like to come out at night. Anyways night fishing isn't much different from normal daytime fishing. Only that there are some more productive tactics to choose over normal daytime fishing.
Night fishing almost seems like blind fishing. It's harder to judge casting distance and accuracy in the dark. If the there's a bright moon, it's all easier. So getting into it, is picking out lures.
Topwater lures are by far probably the easiest pick. Poppers, Buzzbaits, Propbaits, Jitterbugs. It's simple cast and get a slow retrieve on them. In general upsize to larger lures works great too, but not always necessary. Sometimes the smaller profiles are the actual ones that gets bitten. For sure one thing is getting shallow water and getting really close to structures. Rocks, logs, weedlines, docks, bouys all make for a great target.
Vibration lures are the next best picks. Inline spinners, Chatterbaits, Spinnerbaits. Again a simple cast and slow retrieve pattern to them. It doesn't get anymore simple, it's almost dumb luck fishing. Mepps #5 Aglia is a no brainer or Roostertail 1/2 oz. is not too shabby. Expect that some if not most of your bites are gonna be super shallow just at the point where you pull the lure out of the water. That hit and splash right in front of you. When you get hooked up, sometimes it's almost wrenching the rod out of your hand. That's if the line didbn't break off on you.
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Winds from the West, fish bites best.
Winds from the East, fish bites least.
Well there's is some truth to that. However it probably matters more on which shore you're standing on. In general it seems that high pressure and East wind, the fishing does drop some. Low pressure and West wind, the fishing often hits a bite frenzy period.
The most important understanding from this is, if you're fishing in a particualr shore spot and always do good with a West wind, it will generally do poorly with an East wind. When the wind blows, it pushes the water surface and surface debris. So on the shore where the waves are pushed onto, the bait fish often gathers there. Where the bait fish are, the predators lurks nearby often.
The same holds true for a shore spot that the East wind blows onto. If you do well in that scenario, if generally does poorly when it's a West wind scenario.
Inexperience fishing folks geneerally avoid wind, becuase it's hard to cast against wind. When it's windy, fish often hold closer to other structures too. It makes fishing harder as it's more difficult to target those structures and the bite zone of the fish also becomes smaller. When fishing windy conditions, one sometimes has to be more aggressive power fishing, to attract fish. It seems counter-intuitive, but noisy top water fishing is usually a good choice. Second is hard vibrating subsurface lures. They usually gets hit, right as the lure transitions from a choppy water surface to a calm water surface.
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Fall fishing.
There's the fake run fall fishing and there's the actual one like from Salmon run during the fall tiime. Most of us, don't salmon fish. At least in my circle of fishing.
The fake fall run for us white bass chasers. Well you gonna find typical crappie and walleye in the midwest here. Probably easier for crappie, walleye, and largemouth and smallmouth bass.
The fall fishing is sort of more like a fall into the darkness fishing. You don't do so well trying to catch them early in the morning as compared to catching them towards the evening or into the night. The larger fish seems to take on an evening bite phase. It's sort like how some larger fish go on a night biting phase from the summer pattern and they like to keep that method through the fall as well. This pattern or hot spot on water can carry on from September all the way though November. Although it differs so because from the September, it's those cooler nights that seems to be more productive. While getting into November, it's those warmer days and nights that will be more productive. October is a mish mash becuase the weather temperature can change rapidly and it sort of just depends if the fish are feeding or not.
Don't forget the shad run and die off.
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Casting styles...
Your casting style is unique to oneself. In part it's about how you hold your rod and what kind of rod material it's made of. There are two types of rod material. The crisp graphite/carbon rods and the durable fiberglass type of material. Then there is all sorts of taper actions and all varieties of composite material of rods in between those two types of rods.
Regardless of materials, there are similarly two types of rod casting style each person has when casting in hand. One is to muscle the rod cast, that is to leverage with your whole arm from the shoulder and all to quite possibley even your whole body. It takes a lot and if doing it for an hour straight or more, it takes a toll on your whole body. The other casting method is simply the from the hands only and more like just a flick of the wrist, where one leverages mostly from the rod action and it seems like very little motion is used. It can probably achieve like 90-98% of the maximun casting distance one can get from a full body muscled leverage cast. However if you do this type of casting for an hour straight or more, you won't get worn down fishing especially if you plan on fishing a whole day.
So going back to the rod material and rod taper action types. The fiberglass types of rods and the moderate action types of rods, usually makes a person to employ a full body muscle type of casting style. The rods are slower in nature and loads ups throughout the entire blank with properly weighted lures/rigs. The graphite types of rods and fast action types, requires very little movement to get the tip section loaded and anymore moverment is wasted effort. Of course anyone can cast with whatever methods they choose to.
Two hand holding on the rod. This is how one uses their tools and hand hold position on the rod determines how one uses their tools by leverage. This is sort of like as much difference as golfing swing to swinging a baseball ball. It's just as much a nuance difference like badminton vs tennis paddle strike. It can be akin to using a chopping axe to a splitting axe in a comparison analogy.
When one uses a two hand hold method of casting, it does somewhat put the emphasis that one is probably using their shoulders and then some to a lot of full body leverage to the casting method. This is more or less of hand hold position. So for a typical fishing rod, one has to hold the rod by the reel seat or very close to it, regardless of either spinning or casting rod. While the other hand may be down by the butt handle section, so that it is essentiall a split grip method style. Now unique to individual the actual fulcrum of the rod by leverage is anywhere from the reel seat to anywhere down to the butt handle of where the other hand grip is at. That is just looking at the hand arm mechanics, becuase if one is shouldering it, then there's that extra fulcrum axis as well. Then if one is using their waist or even their legs, then there is that other complexity of body leverage in the full equation. Too keep it simiplified, we are just looking at the rod as the tool.
Most of us started with the Kmart Walmart cheap fiberglass types of rod like Zebco or Ugly Sticks for their durability. They were cheap and when we casted with them, we had to muscle the cast to get any distance. It basically had to be done that way as we hear the air sonic splitting sound at every cast. Most of us also started with the bobber or live bait bottom rigs so the slower more moderate action rods also kept the bait on the hook. It was just that way. When we wanted to catch bigger fish other than panfish, yea our rig got bigger and heavier and we leverage the rod by hand hold position with full split grip method. The old traditional rods were built with a little fore grip above the reel seat and a full rear handle grip all the way down to the butt of the rod. One can split their handle grip anywhere on the entire full rear handle grip there. Newer style rods with their split grips on the rear, has a rear grip and the butt grip. Now one should not be gripping the rod by the exposed blank but still can if one really wants to. It's that newer style rods with the split grips that changes most of our casting grip method. The rear split grip is fully integrated into the rear reel seat, now your hand grips if by that section is now fully side by side. While older traditional rear grips starts a bit below the locking nut of the reel seat, it puts it a few inches below and your normal typical close rear hand grip is still a few inches away from the other hand on the real seat. Of course with the exception of bait casting rods since their locking nut is at the front of the real seat.
This hand gripping methods affect the casting arc of the rod tip and the full rod leverage as well. However the biggest difference on a fishing rod is that the final follow through of the arc at the finish. A fishing rod means one finishes where the rop tip is pointed in the direction and position of the casted target. Whereas golf clubs and baseball bats followthrough a much more completed circular arc motion around one's body.
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Either type of rods, I still use both hands to cast if the roads are at least 6' or longer. I use one hand
for shorter rods, regardless of the material they are made of.
So far, the only rod I've been comfortable casting with one hand are those with 5'8" length. All others
have required both hands for control and reach.
All of my rods are at least 6' or longer but only one is longer. I've had to use both hands
for any casting. But that's partly because my reels are spinning reels and not casting stuff.
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The next fishing fad...rage...h ype...
Seems like this Forward Facing Sonar or Live Scope Sonar thing is the next hyped up rage for the face of fishing style...
Suddenly there's all these lures labled for FFS tag. Not that some of these lures didn't exist before that, but now it's labeled as such. Well there's also all these lures developed for this sonar technology now and more are being released nowadays. It just seemed like the swimbait of both hard and soft lures was just the last market hype.
If there's one thing about fishing with technology as in sonar viewing interaction, it's that it changes the way one fishes. It's sort of like, not enjoying the outdoors but more like taking the indoors and just putting it outside. People eyes are glued onto that screen.
We also know that with technology, there's also the social media glorification aspect. All of a sudden, this technology is the only thing that seems to catch a lot of fishes. Not really, just the social media aspect of it. People still catch a lot of fishes the plain old way. However with sonar technology, it's become sort of a fishing video game. Now they just need to put in the special sound effects. So when the big sonar return signal is spotted, make it sound like the floor boss showed up.
LOL. That will get the heart beat adrenaline running...
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Not that I pay attention to the latest fishing hype or latest fishing rage technique...No live bait needed.
So I decided it was time to learn something...ca lled Strolling...
I don't know didly about that...but it seemed to me that in the end it was all about twitching your rod tip while reeling in your jighead and soft plastic minnow...
So in other words it's just like how we've been doing it for years from ice fishing...just transfer that into open water fishing...Wow oh wow. Didn't know that we've been doing it for years and now the secret is out of the bag. Northland mimic minnow...
Well of course they had to get dedicated lure tackle for this Strolling technique to be done right. Because the technique is based on how the lure actually rolls in it's action.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pgKiDKtgHA&list=LL&index=28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pgKiDKtgHA&list=LL&index=28)
bait casting technique
makes me wanna go try his techiques
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The great debate...Spinn ing vs Baitcasting set ups...
The final answer is...it just depends.
However if we examine things just a little closer for certain techniques or styles. It does have more favorable scenarios or set ups for each type of fishing set ups. Obviously spinning set ups will be better for bobber style fishing, especially slip bobber where the bobber stop knot gets wound onto the spool. Spinning gear also excels with light weight lures. Whereas baitcasting set ups generally excels at heavier rigs and fishing line managment. They also have a slight advantage of finessing a lure, just because the center of gravity for the set up is right there in your hand instead of hangling below your hand position.
However there is one specific scenario of jerk bait fishing that baitcasting gear excels over that of spinning gear. For monoline of nylon or fluorocarbon. If you have a cadence of twitch and pause…long pause on spinning gear, not the most desireable effect. Like fishing a bobber on spinning gear, long pause, the line memory coil contraction effect slowly pulls your bobber closer to you. Same thing with jerkbait, just underwater and you don’t visually see it. It just affects moreso on spinning gear. If the fish ain’t biting, then switch to a bait casting setup. If the fish suddenly bites, then that’s all the difference. That slack line coil also means a delay in hook set or a delay for lure twitch. Meaning also a more rod tip movement from long pause to get the lure to twitch. Sometimes that makes all the difference.
When fish are biting just about anything, it really doesn't matter. Just fish what you like.
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Every year, the routine question of, "What is the best..."
People ask this all the time and it's 99% opinion and 1% actual best gear.
There is a lot of factors that involves in what is best. What is best varies from person to person. The best materials may not always be the most advance material. E.G. graphene is probably the most advance material to be used for a fishing rod. However to produce it in a long enough strand that is material consistent for a 6' or 7' fishing rod blank, is currently not technological possible in a cost effective way. There was once a time when Boron element fishing rods were technically the best fishing rods. Well it seems nonexistent in today's current offerings. I'm sure if I research on the internet, I will probably find the reason(s) why not.
There is also different concepts in fishing rod desinges. E.G. Wavebuster line guide trains concept. It's sort of a concept that if the fishing line is immediately choked into a straight funnel it should flow better and cast further. However does the physics stand behind that? Sort of depends where one is examining it.
For a while there was this push for larger spools on spinning gear will cast further. Yes a narrative concept on that sounds great and very convincing. In fact it does work to a generalized concept. However the nuances and the specifics don't always work out. The consumers and user just went back to small reels with small spools. Becuase mechanically it's just works very well. For one sample comparison of a Stradic 1000 reel with a 40mm spool lip vs a Sustain 1000 reel with a 39mm spool lip. For two nearly identical reels in mechanical designs and even possible interchanged parts, theh Sustain reel may have a few more bearings in place of bushings and some better material on parts. Yet when used the Sustain reel casts so much more smoother and less effort for distance. That difference in just the spool lip diamter of 1mm seems to play quite an influence on the overall feel.
People...alway s someone will asks, "I want the best..." then says, "I will only pay $50...or even $100 for it." Sometimes the concept is really just asking for the best garbage gear. Yes, it can be the best gear for one season of use, basically a few months. Whereas most of them are not actually looking for an heirloom type of gear. Think about that, something that can possibly be past down to the next generation or more.
So in the end, what is best opinion. Just fish what you like.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlTgrCjdkCg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlTgrCjdkCg)
How much fishing has changed or rather how old style multi rigs has now become legal to fish with.
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BFS spool matters...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsqucCP_M9M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsqucCP_M9M)
I like this guy when talks because he speaks a very down to earth lingo.
only some minor concepts may have been misrepresented but no big deal. He mentions something about bigger spools spins faster, but he should've said that they spin slower. If the lure is flying off the rod at the same speed, a larger diameter spool (at the diameter of the line on the spool) will spin slower due to a larger circumference transfering into a linear line flow. Assuming that the width of the spool is not taken into account. Smaller diameter spools will need to spin faster to dispense the same amount of line from a larger diameter spools.
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Left or Right hand reel retrieve...tec hnique or obliviousness.
If there is a reason, there is a narrative that will sound convincing. Whether it's objective or subjective, well I do what I feel like.
Let's start with spincasting first. It's the youth set up. If you know Zebco, then you know. First, it's primarily a right handle retrieve. Next, while most people are right hand dominant, it's also a right hand cast. From the day that our human ancestors knew how to throw a rock, a spear, or even swing a club with the right hand, so biological evolution favors our present day right hand dominance. How weird is it, that then we switch the rod over to hold in our left hand. Our right hand is just more deft at that rotaional movement to work the reel handle. Since most of us, do that, we have muscle memory of just doing that.
Next the open face spinning reel. It's just called a spinning reel today, but before that, there were closed face spinning reels very much like the spincast reels. Some people may even know that some of these were mounted on the left side of the rod, not directly under it. Yes, the line came out of the left side, so the handle was on the right side. Anyways with todays modern spinning reels, they come with the handle mounted on the left side of the reel. Again, it has something to do with right hand dominance. The function of opening the bail and then right hand holding the line before the cast. Even the function of the rotor in rotation is designed for right hand dominance. So suddenly one is now fishing with the rod in the right hand and then rotating the handle with their left hand. I don't do that, well it's awkward as my muscle memory from the spincast is not cooperating.
Now moving over to bait casting reels. We go back to having the majority of the reels with right handle retrieve. Again the design in that we cast with our right hand, then swap the rod over to our left hand afterwards. It's weird, but not really since that's the norm. Now there's a variety of left handle retrieve bait casting reels out there too. So that means casting with the right hand and the rod stays in the right hand. That's the gist of it.
Or not. Why can't we cast with our left hand, the rod stays in our left hand, that leaves our right hand to do the handle rotation. That sounds correct for me. I do what I feel like.
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The great debate...Spinn ing vs Baitcasting set ups...
When fish are biting just about anything, it really doesn't matter. Just fish what you like.
If an analogy of comparison between the two types of gear can be simply put like a spinning gear grows from level 1 to 5 easy. While a casting gear grows from level 1 to 10, but trying to get to level 2 is very hard. Most people only train in the gear to maybe level 2. Level 1 will get the same amount of bird nest regardless of type. It may take a few casts with spinning gear before a bird nest. For casting gear, it was likely on the first attempt.
The biggest difference is one's casting form, meaning ability. One can be sloppy with spinning gear and still get a lure casted out results. If sloppy with casting gear, results are always a bird's nest at the spool.
Open water, no obstacles, spinning gear.
Bait casting gear is better at targets like in between docks or pilings, open pockets between pads and grass. That's not to say one can't, but can achieve the same results with spinning gear. Bridge or overhang trees above head, a bait casting gear will get more distance on a low trajectory cast with the same moderate amount of casting speed and power. Tuning your casting gear is like 10% but 90% is personal ability. That ability comes from experience. Put 10 good years into a bait casting and one will barely remember all the trouble on year 1 with a bait casting gear.
Fishing all day long, it takes less energy with bait casting gear. One can just press thumb bar and cast with one hand. Same hand just extend finger to turn the handle and clutch engages. All that takes seconds.
For spinnig gear add a few more seconds and it really takes two hands, grab the line with one finger, open bail probably with other hand, cast out, and then close bail requiring both hands. All day long will mean that this will take a toll on the body more so. Well there's that quick fire or quick shot spinning reel with the one hand open bail to cast feature built into it.
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How to rig a jig head and plastic...
Well the correct way is to have it centered and perfectly uniform. So when you retrieve it, it swims straight and falls straight. That's what normal thinking is and a majority of people do it. However we probably miss a whole lot of fish biting becuase...fish are predators and they prefer to take the easy injured prey first.
It's far better to imitate an injured prey with the rig. So a slightly off set plastic rig often times triggers a bite response way more. E.G. wacky rig a jig head and plastic - off balance. Those Northland Mimic minnows that comes pre-rigged are often centered balanced. Re-rig it so the hook shank is spined close to the dorsal of the plastic. When you get the right weight to sink rate and the lure sort of flips on it's side on the fall, that's magic bite trigger. Or when you rig it off centered just so so and the whole rig vibes as you retrieve it, it sort of shimmy instead of being a dull lure with just the paddle tail kicking only. It's changes the dynamic of how that lure performs.
It's only wrong when the rig is spiraling in a vortex during a retrieval that scares fish away. That's too much off centered. Tone it down a little more. Remember just slightly off centered to imitate an injured prey. Not off centered to comical near disaster.
Pick your fishing style...