What is the Original language? White or Green?

[CheejSiav]

Now concerning the origin of the Hmong. What are the Korean then? because they said that their ancestor is also Chih Yu.

[Great Sage]

And that's what I'm pin pointing about these churches. When Hmong have establish a standardize system already why break us up trying to have division like Church learn and speak Green Hmong so that they can show pride in themselves that Green Hmong is the actual language. Now think about it, I wouldn't go and establish a church and said that God only knows White Hmong not Green Hmong so everybody speak White Hmong in the Church please. That's just prejudice and that is to your point segregating the common people. I go to family that are White Hmong house but speaks Green Hmong and when i speak white Hmong to them they said "you're not suppose to speak White Hmong because God doesn't know White Hmong he only knows Green Hmong" I then pause and think which fckface would brain wash somebody into thinking that??? Now that's from experience. And I'm pretty sure it's not an intention for the pastor to simply think that God only speaks Green Hmong but he's probably trying to fight this language thing by converting people over to Green Hmong by lying to everybody about "God only speaks and understand Green Hmong."
I agree with you that anybody, anyone can speak whatever language that they want to as long as you don't segregate and divide the community into groups like this.

Here's a better idea. If you don't want to speak the kind of Hmong that's spoken at a specific Church, don't go there. It's as simple as that.

Also, language does not segregate us as much as attitude. That you have a problem with someone's use of a dialect is more disturbing than them believing they're correct. You're no better than they are.

[todspengo]

Now concerning the origin of the Hmong. What are the Korean then? because they said that their ancestor is also Chih Yu.

Chiyou like all ancient mythical figures (Guanyu, Shenon, Nuwa) have now rooted itself into all major cultures in the area. However, the Han and Hmong Chiyou legends are the same while the Korean one is different. The Korean belief may have a nationalistic agenda because it would put Korean culture as old as that of China (Han, Hmong, Tijua, Qiang etc...), and show that Koreans have always contended for supremacy with the Han Chinese. But you have to keep in mind that the Koreans who believe Chiyou to be their ancient king is in the minority, and the average Koreans don't believe in Chiyou.

[Great Sage]

Chiyou like all ancient mythical figures (Guanyu, Shenon, Nuwa) have now rooted itself into all major cultures in the area. However, the Han and Hmong Chiyou legends are the same while the Korean one is different. The Korean belief may have a nationalistic agenda because it would put Korean culture as old as that of China (Han, Hmong, Tijua, Qiang etc...), and show that Koreans have always contended for supremacy with the Han Chinese. But you have to keep in mind that the Koreans who believe Chiyou to be their ancient king is in the minority, and the average Koreans don't believe in Chiyou.

Neither does the average Hmong believe in Chi You. The average Hmong doesn't even know Chi You. Our grandparents don't know him. So Chi You is just another Chinese; as susptected by most.

[CheejSiav]

Here's a better idea. If you don't want to speak the kind of Hmong that's spoken at a specific Church, don't go there. It's as simple as that.

Also, language does not segregate us as much as attitude. That you have a problem with someone's use of a dialect is more disturbing than them believing they're correct. You're no better than they are.

Language and attitude doesn't segregate us it's your perception that segregate us. For example would everyone always think negative when they don't understand what two Chinese or different Ethnicity is talking about so they assume that the two are talking crap about them and just dislike them for that but in reality they weren't! It's how you take things in and how you use your perceptions on things around you. Think about it that way and rethink your thoughts Great Sage

[CheejSiav]

Chiyou like all ancient mythical figures (Guanyu, Shenon, Nuwa) have now rooted itself into all major cultures in the area. However, the Han and Hmong Chiyou legends are the same while the Korean one is different. The Korean belief may have a nationalistic agenda because it would put Korean culture as old as that of China (Han, Hmong, Tijua, Qiang etc...), and show that Koreans have always contended for supremacy with the Han Chinese. But you have to keep in mind that the Koreans who believe Chiyou to be their ancient king is in the minority, and the average Koreans don't believe in Chiyou.

But what about the culture and ritual that the Korean do? I know my friend mention to me that there are some that does Shamanism too

[CheejSiav]

Neither does the average Hmong believe in Chi You. The average Hmong doesn't even know Chi You. Our grandparents don't know him. So Chi You is just another Chinese; as susptected by most.

Okay then where did you get your facts from that "a lot" of the Hmong Elder don't know who Chi you is? You got to see it this way too most of them were born in Lao's so they didn't get any exposure to a knowledge of our forefather or who the King was back in China. The very few that are expose are the one who are curious about who they are. Are you curious of who you are?

[todspengo]

Neither does the average Hmong believe in Chi You. The average Hmong doesn't even know Chi You. Our grandparents don't know him. So Chi You is just another Chinese; as susptected by most.

I suppose I should make myself clearer. The majority of Koreans do not consider Chiyou an ancestral king, where as the vast majority of Hmong do. The average Hmong growing up in America do not know who Chiyou is because they probably had never heard of one dab neeg in their life. It's sad... But most people who were born in SE Asia grew up hearing dab neeg of peb Txiv Yawg (Chiyou) and Huab Tais (HuangTi) from either their grandmother or grandfather. Most Hmong, myself included, hear about the folklore of Txiv Yawg and Huab Tais, and we used these terms all the time, but until recently, when we started making contact with our cousins in China, we did not know of the significance of it.

I'm pretty sure you hear about Txiv Yawg and Huab Tais all the time, but you just did not know the significance behind it.

[Muaj Tsim]

hmong originated from Eurasia

[Muaj Tsim]

only regions in the world that practice bride kidnapping is in eurasia/central asia.  Hmong people originated there.  thats why hmong traditionally use spoons, hmong play tub lub (top spin sport)  and no other culture in china, southeast asia does that stuff except hmong.  that's why i believe more about this theory of hmong coming from eurasia.  and looking at the ancient hmong writing alphabet it looks more middle east.

[todspengo]

only regions in the world that practice bride kidnapping is in eurasia/central asia.  Hmong people originated there.  thats why hmong traditionally use spoons, hmong play tub lub (top spin sport)  and no other culture in china, southeast asia does that stuff except hmong.  that's why i believe more about this theory of hmong coming from eurasia.  and looking at the ancient hmong writing alphabet it looks more middle east.

I missed the point of shamanism. A lot of cultures practice shamanism, but that does not mean the practices are related. Native Americans practice shamanism too. Korean shamanism has it's roots in Siberia, Mongolia and Manchuria. Different regions practice it differently from other regions.

This topic is on the origin of the language not the origin of the people, but I supposed the two go hand in hand so I'll bite.

You can't base the origin of a people by 2 things.

1. Hmong do not traditionally use forks and spoons. Hmong do not even have a word for fork. Rawg, contratry to Hmong American beliefs, does not mean fork. It means chopsticks. If you step outside of Laos, you will notice that All Hmong uses chopsticks. From China, to Vietnam to Thailand. The only Hmong people who do not use chopsticks are those from Laos. You are the minority so your way is not the norm.

2. Every culture kidnap brides. You don't hear about it because you don't live in that culture. And just like in the Hmong culture, it's shun upon. Most of the kidnappings you're referring to is actually consensual, so it's not kidnapping, but eloping. This is thanks in to the part of Hmong ignorance in conveying this to the Western world.

3. We covered this in the Paj Ntaub Aphabet section of this forum that it's a mid to late 19th century fabrication. Here's an exert to a more scholarly article regarding actual Hmong writing history. You have to buy the book or get it at your local library if you want to read the rest.

http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9780631214816_chunk_g978063121481610_ss1-22

[CheejSiav]

only regions in the world that practice bride kidnapping is in eurasia/central asia.  Hmong people originated there.  thats why hmong traditionally use spoons, hmong play tub lub (top spin sport)  and no other culture in china, southeast asia does that stuff except hmong.  that's why i believe more about this theory of hmong coming from eurasia.  and looking at the ancient hmong writing alphabet it looks more middle east.

Okay what about the instruments then? No other Asian have the Qeej that would lead their dead to the other world. Here's what I found in the scriptures that back before the 12 tribe's diaspora there was one particular tribe that carry an instrument that lead the dead to the other world and no other tribe have nor can do that ritual because it's so sacred

[CheejSiav]

I missed the point of shamanism. A lot of cultures practice shamanism, but that does not mean the practices are related. Native Americans practice shamanism too. Korean shamanism has it's roots in Siberia, Mongolia and Manchuria. Different regions practice it differently from other regions.

This topic is on the origin of the language not the origin of the people, but I supposed the two go hand in hand so I'll bite.

You can't base the origin of a people by 2 things.

1. Hmong do not traditionally use forks and spoons. Hmong do not even have a word for fork. Rawg, contratry to Hmong American beliefs, does not mean fork. It means chopsticks. If you step outside of Laos, you will notice that All Hmong uses chopsticks. From China, to Vietnam to Thailand. The only Hmong people who do not use chopsticks are those from Laos. You are the minority so your way is not the norm.

2. Every culture kidnap brides. You don't hear about it because you don't live in that culture. And just like in the Hmong culture, it's shun upon. Most of the kidnappings you're referring to is actually consensual, so it's not kidnapping, but eloping. This is thanks in to the part of Hmong ignorance in conveying this to the Western world.

3. We covered this in the Paj Ntaub Aphabet section of this forum that it's a mid to late 19th century fabrication. Here's an exert to a more scholarly article regarding actual Hmong writing history. You have to buy the book or get it at your local library if you want to read the rest.

http://www.blackwellreference.com/public/tocnode?id=g9780631214816_chunk_g978063121481610_ss1-22

So about Shamanism where, how, when did it establish to what root is it? There's got to be an explanation to all the ordinance and sacrifices because it's really similar to the b.c. sacrifice if you think about it that way. So how many Shamanism race are there?

[chidorix0x]

only regions in the world that practice bride kidnapping is in eurasia/central asia.  Hmong people originated there.  thats why hmong traditionally use spoons, hmong play tub lub (top spin sport)  and no other culture in china, southeast asia does that stuff except hmong.  that's why i believe more about this theory of hmong coming from eurasia.  and looking at the ancient hmong writing alphabet it looks more middle east.

   ...  no such thing except a Hmong person's imagination - 20th/21st century innovation. Anyone (Hmong especially) who believes this is either gullible or ignorant of all the facts, or both. (There is even a recently introduced ancient/ordained Hmong Script, I came across, that is exactly like Arabic scripts -  -  .)

And this thread is getting off track with irrelevant comments/posts. Where are all the pros and cons specific to the thread. That's what I'd like to see more of etc..

[todspengo]

So about Shamanism where, how, when did it establish to what root is it? There's got to be an explanation to all the ordinance and sacrifices because it's really similar to the b.c. sacrifice if you think about it that way. So how many Shamanism race are there?

I don't have a lot of knowledge about shamanism as a whole, but I do know that all pre-Christian people believe in shamanism.

To me, religion is just a set of made up stories to fill an unexplainable (where did we come from, where do we go when we die), hope for the hopeless (My kids and I are starving, but we will go to heaven or to my ancestors), make money (the Knights Templar and their banking system, the Pope and his Crusades), or control people (medieval lords and their serfs, the South and their slaves).

Since this topic is straying into religion I think a new thread should be started, but do keep in mind that you will not be able to have a sound conversation. The religious people will start telling you how Hmong people are the lost tribe of Israel and cite from sources that they can't show you, and the anti religious people will start to tell the religious ones how stupid they are.