What is the Original language? White or Green?

[chidorix0x]

/\ /\  ...     ...  do you understand this TruthAboveKnowledge  ...   

[zina]

Look up Hmong Daw DNA, TheWuLine, QuietRIOTVoice, D-M15 DNA, & N3 Tat DNA. Then go to imperialchina. org and read everything about Chiyou, San Miao, Dongyi, and Qiang, This is a start on this discuss.

[zina]

I don't study history but I'll say both is and neither is the original, each carries fragmented pieces a few words here and there which mean both are just a sub-or sub sub sub sub dialect of the original dialect.

Did you look up the listed info??  They suggest that White Hmong is the original.  White Hmong has more Northern DNA plus endorsement from the other two Hmong groups in China. I understand some would be unhappy with the info but that's the data.

[HuajYim]

Now there were others among Hmong who consist of the Yao (co), Lag, Toom, Haiv Thwv Los and Haiv Suav who are the Chinese now. Where have these tribe originated from?

[CheejSiav]

I would say the origin of those tribe must either be descendant of one forefather or a need of migration from other parts of the world. Can anybody do some research to when the last great migration happened back in the b.c.?

[SVanTha]

I'm white hmong, but i don't have an issue saying it's definitely green hmong because green hmong keeps more phonetic features that are closer to the original language.  Features like "DLAB TSIS" instead of "DAB TSIS", for example, are much more archaic.

O yea, there is no issue about the original or proto hmong language cause it's already been reconstructed by a number of scholars, including a lady in the US named Martha Ratliff.

Here's a small sample of some proto hmong words:  http://sealang.net/sala/archives/pdf8/solnit1996evidence.pdf

Notice that even in this small sample, there are a lot of words with x"L" and x"R" consonant clusters.  If you sound out many of the proto hmong words, you'll see that they phonetically are close to how the "R" sound stands out in thai, lao, khmer and viet languages.  It's no coincidence and proto chinese is the same way; but that's a whole topic in itself.  For now, just check out this video on proto chinese pronunciation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIkQSuZbbt0

BTW, even though i acknowledge green hmong is more archaic, doesn't mean it sounds better.  IMO, white hmong is the best sounding of all the hmong or miao languages.  I've heard most of the major ones and because they retain more archaic features, they sound pretty yucky.

Take this video for example.  The singers sound like they have a speech impediment; either that or they have abnormally lazy and flat tongues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhHURTdqcBc

[CheejSiav]

I'm white hmong, but i don't have an issue saying it's definitely green hmong because green hmong keeps more phonetic features that are closer to the original language.  Features like "DLAB TSIS" instead of "DAB TSIS", for example, are much more archaic.

O yea, there is no issue about the original or proto hmong language cause it's already been reconstructed by a number of scholars, including a lady in the US named Martha Ratliff.

Here's a small sample of some proto hmong words:  http://sealang.net/sala/archives/pdf8/solnit1996evidence.pdf

Notice that even in this small sample, there are a lot of words with x"L" and x"R" consonant clusters.  If you sound out many of the proto hmong words, you'll see that they phonetically are close to how the "R" sound stands out in thai, lao, khmer and viet languages.  It's no coincidence and proto chinese is the same way; but that's a whole topic in itself.  For now, just check out this video on proto chinese pronunciation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIkQSuZbbt0

BTW, even though i acknowledge green hmong is more archaic, doesn't mean it sounds better.  IMO, white hmong is the best sounding of all the hmong or miao languages.  I've heard most of the major ones and because they retain more archaic features, they sound pretty yucky.

Take this video for example.  The singers sound like they have a speech impediment; either that or they have abnormally lazy and flat tongues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhHURTdqcBc

lol the second video seems like it's all clustered and made up is it really a language or am I really just listening to people making up words?

[CheejSiav]

I'm white hmong, but i don't have an issue saying it's definitely green hmong because green hmong keeps more phonetic features that are closer to the original language.  Features like "DLAB TSIS" instead of "DAB TSIS", for example, are much more archaic.

O yea, there is no issue about the original or proto hmong language cause it's already been reconstructed by a number of scholars, including a lady in the US named Martha Ratliff.

Here's a small sample of some proto hmong words:  http://sealang.net/sala/archives/pdf8/solnit1996evidence.pdf

Notice that even in this small sample, there are a lot of words with x"L" and x"R" consonant clusters.  If you sound out many of the proto hmong words, you'll see that they phonetically are close to how the "R" sound stands out in thai, lao, khmer and viet languages.  It's no coincidence and proto chinese is the same way; but that's a whole topic in itself.  For now, just check out this video on proto chinese pronunciation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIkQSuZbbt0

BTW, even though i acknowledge green hmong is more archaic, doesn't mean it sounds better.  IMO, white hmong is the best sounding of all the hmong or miao languages.  I've heard most of the major ones and because they retain more archaic features, they sound pretty yucky.

Take this video for example.  The singers sound like they have a speech impediment; either that or they have abnormally lazy and flat tongues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhHURTdqcBc

And i would disagree because you think about it saying dab tsi is actually harder for the Han or Chinese to say so when the Miao (Hmong) cook mixed with the Han back then they grew up speaking differently leaving a whole different language and why are White Hmong able to maintain their language it's because they avoid being submitted to the Han CAN YOU GUYS NOT SEE THAT???

[SVanTha]

And i would disagree because you think about it saying dab tsi is actually harder for the Han or Chinese to say so when the Miao (Hmong) cook mixed with the Han back then they grew up speaking differently leaving a whole different language and why are White Hmong able to maintain their language it's because they avoid being submitted to the Han CAN YOU GUYS NOT SEE THAT???

Well, that would make sense if the original language was proved to be devoid of those features.  But looking at just a few reconstructed words from the link, you can see it's not the case.

You brought up the hans.  Did you listen to the original reconstructed language of the hans?  It wasn't hard for them to say x"L" and x"R" words.  In fact, in the video, they are a strong feature of old chinese.

[luckyvang]

I just wanted to join the discussion.  I've read the posts about everyone's theories about which language came first and what not.  It's an interesting topic, but given the information, I don't see a conclusion.  A lot of this is speculation.   Whatever the case, I did see some genetic information that may be very useful in determining our ancestral lineage.  In it's simplest form, the genetic information says that we are Chinese.  The Hmong, Miao, Han, etc... We are just subtypes of each other.  Not a big surprise given the similarities in our culture, langues, and so on.  However, this scientific information begs a new question?  Do we continue to perpetuate our divergence, or do we claim that we are Chinese? 
 

[chidorix0x]

I just wanted to join the discussion.  I've read the posts about everyone's theories about which language came first and what not.  It's an interesting topic, but given the information, I don't see a conclusion.  A lot of this is speculation.   Whatever the case, I did see some genetic information that may be very useful in determining our ancestral lineage.  In it's simplest form, the genetic information says that we are Chinese.  The Hmong, Miao, Han, etc... We are just subtypes of each other.  Not a big surprise given the similarities in our culture, langues, and so on.  However, this scientific information begs a new question?  Do we continue to perpetuate our divergence, or do we claim that we are Chinese? 
 

   ...   

Care to cite your "genetic data" or publication, as there are several "genetic/DNA" research, researchers, and data statistics that says the complete opposite of your conjecture, unless you are simply saying we all belong to the "genome" homo-sapiens erectus.

As for the White VS Green debacle, language-wise, extrapolating from genetic data, has more or less shed/shown some very interesting results about this too.  (All this data -- genetic stats -- are within this thread or a similar thread, here, if I am not mistaken.)

I concur to a large extent, the absolute truth is unknown or cannot be proven unequivocally, but ignoring all the scientific research and statistics is fool-hearty, unless one is already bias one way or another.

Ua tsaug ...   

[luckyvang]

 There are several "genetic/DNA" research, researchers, and data statistics that says the complete opposite of your conjecture, unless you are simply saying we all belong to the "genome" homo-sapiens erectus. 

I have yet to see any genetic evidence to suggest that Hmong people are distinct from the Chinese.  To date, there is no evidence anywhere in the world that can clearly quantify what makes a person qualify as a different ethnic group.  There is no one gene that says I am Hmong and you are Chinese.  If there is, please forward this information if you have it available.  In addition, your statement leads me right into my next thought.  We are all Homo-sapiens; we are all alike.  Our main differences are the cultures, the languages, and everything man-made, NOT our genetics.  Our race and ethnicity exist due to our own wish to separate ourselves from one another.  It's funny how people are using genetic evidence to find their origins.  I only hope that these people will not be disappointed to find out that we are more alike than we are different.  The answer to being Hmong is not in our genes. 

As far as language and genetics goes... I have read the articles on this thread, and none of them are able to use genetics to solve which language came first.  The articles only demonstrate the divergence of the Miao from North to South and to other areas of the world.  I feel that too many people are misinterpretin g scientific evidence and extrapolating information that does not exist. 

[chidorix0x]

luckyvang,

It is clear you have done very little to no research, and is purely just speculating -- making open-ended conjectures.

Here is a start ... so you can at least try to sound somewhat informed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpC1P6me5Ko

Ua tsaug ...   

(Yeah, you are going to claim that within this video, it says Hans, Hmong/Miao, Tibetans etc. share a common ancestry/gene etc., like "duh".  But research "further" and once and/or provided you understand all the "genetic jargon" and you'll see all their differences etc..)

[luckyvang]

Chidorixox -  after watching this simplistic video, it's hard for me comprehend how people would be so easily accepting of things they see on the internet without understanding genetics.  Just one last question, if you consider yourself Hmong and lack this haplotype, does that make you not Hmong?  Genetics is a strong tool, but it will be very dangerous to those who use it incorrectly. 

[PRINCESS.]

This is the original Hmong language:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYXTZh8CW4E