What is the Original language? White or Green?

[Believe_N_Me]

Although quite awhile ago, I studied the evolution of the English language and its origins from Old English. It would be interesting to take the same approach in order to determine the evolution of Hmong language. Unfortunately, I can't do this since I have little education about the history of Hmong migration. It is interesting that Hmoob Leeg is widely spoken in many other parts of the Asian continent where the Hmong reside. However, that may be, it doesn't confirm that Hmoob Leeg is the original. But reading all the inputs on this thread and assuming that everybody provided a little truth to their perspectives, it is certainly most fascinating how Hmoob Dawb phonetics maintained its uniqueness from Hmong Leeg - which again, has been implied by many on the forum as the widely-spoken dialect and more glazed with Chinese tones. Using the same approach I learned in the class about English, I draw my own conclusions (not saying that it is fact or anything). But I'm not sure phers can handle it.     

[chidorix0x]

Although quite awhile ago, I studied the evolution of the English language and its origins from Old English. It would be interesting to take the same approach in order to determine the evolution of Hmong language. Unfortunately, I can't do this since I have little education about the history of Hmong migration. It is interesting that Hmoob Leeg is widely spoken in many other parts of the Asian continent where the Hmong reside. However, that may be, it doesn't confirm that Hmoob Leeg is the original. But reading all the inputs on this thread and assuming that everybody provided a little truth to their perspectives, it is certainly most fascinating how Hmoob Dawb phonetics maintained its uniqueness from Hmong Leeg - which again, has been implied by many on the forum as the widely-spoken dialect and more glazed with Chinese tones. Using the same approach I learned in the class about English, I draw my own conclusions (not saying that it is fact or anything). But I'm not sure phers can handle it.     

The lot of us who are of sound mind and are of worldly endowment can more or less make an educated assumption of what "conclusion" you may have drawn, 

Ironically, I have never personally heard a "Hmoob Dawb" claim nor suggest that their language and cultural practice(s) is the original and authentic product of our Hmong ancestors - White and Green. Well, maybe except for me, but I never said it was, only that it is something to consider for further investigation and research based off of historical content and/or academic scholarships. That however is not the case among the "Hmoob/Moob Ntsuab/Lees/Leeg", as I have heard several of them making this boastful unofficial claim -  .

What I find amusing (even comical if not hilarious), is that "Hmoob Dawb" only refers to themself as "Hmoob Dawb" - White, exclusively; whereas the Green Hmong, call themself either "Ntsuab", "Lees", or "Leeg" -  . (Ok, I admit "Lees" and "Leeg" are the same, just different per dialect, White and Green respectively.) Point is, Green Hmong cannot or do not even know which of the three they really are, or want to be called, so how can we, Hmong in general, take any "Hmoob/Moob Ntsuab, Lees, Leeg" unofficial boasting they claim seriously, or without suspicion - 

And please, let's not go into the "Hmoob/Moob Ntsuab, Lees, Leeg" dichotomy -  Yeah, maybe I may be highly opinionated, but I find that debacle purely - . Without touching that subject specifically, here's an analogy: an affluent African-American claims he/she is not a "ghetto negro". Interesting, yet we all know too well, they are in fact one and the same - natives of Africa,  (And I have heard several folklore about White and Green -  , LMAO! Ok, I'll stop there ...  )

[hmoobconan]

I haven't been on any forums for a while and you white supremacists are still trying to distort facts again?

Lets get one thing straight here, we are Hmong Leng. Green Hmong is what you white supremacists call us. It's either that the word Leng does not exist in the White Hmong dictionary or the White Hmong supremacists refuse to call us by what we call ourselves.

According to what I know, the true Green Hmong are the ones that practice cannabalism. They are the ones that tell their old parents to come down and get into the pot -- only to realize that their children will do the same to them. That's why they either died out or gave up the canabalistic practices and joined other Hmong groups.

And lets all be honest here, deep down, we all know that White Hmong is a bastardized version of Hmong Leng. It is not as powerful in comparison, that's why everybody talk trash in White. The White dialect itself sounds fake and phony. That may, in fact, be one of the qualities that made it so successful. If we were all to speak in Hmong Leng, there wouldn't be that much talking going on. It is not wise to joke in the language of the heavens. Verbal assualts in the Hmong Leng dialect are of the highest degree. For petty bullshit, we use the white dialect and English/foreign languages.

Boastful they may be, but unlike you guys, there is an absence of hatred in their words. I am sorry, but this is the truth about the white and "green" dialects. This is the view that will remain in effect for as long as Hmong Leng is spoken.

[CheejSiav]

I haven't been on any forums for a while and you white supremacists are still trying to distort facts again?

Lets get one thing straight here, we are Hmong Leng. Green Hmong is what you white supremacists call us. It's either that the word Leng does not exist in the White Hmong dictionary or the White Hmong supremacists refuse to call us by what we call ourselves.

According to what I know, the true Green Hmong are the ones that practice cannabalism. They are the ones that tell their old parents to come down and get into the pot -- only to realize that their children will do the same to them. That's why they either died out or gave up the canabalistic practices and joined other Hmong groups.

And lets all be honest here, deep down, we all know that White Hmong is a bastardized version of Hmong Leng. It is not as powerful in comparison, that's why everybody talk trash in White. The White dialect itself sounds fake and phony. That may, in fact, be one of the qualities that made it so successful. If we were all to speak in Hmong Leng, there wouldn't be that much talking going on. It is not wise to joke in the language of the heavens. Verbal assualts in the Hmong Leng dialect are of the highest degree. For petty bullshit, we use the white dialect and English/foreign languages.

Boastful they may be, but unlike you guys, there is an absence of hatred in their words. I am sorry, but this is the truth about the white and "green" dialects. This is the view that will remain in effect for as long as Hmong Leng is spoken.

How do you know? You're not White so you don't see it through their perspective

[CheejSiav]

Although quite awhile ago, I studied the evolution of the English language and its origins from Old English. It would be interesting to take the same approach in order to determine the evolution of Hmong language. Unfortunately, I can't do this since I have little education about the history of Hmong migration. It is interesting that Hmoob Leeg is widely spoken in many other parts of the Asian continent where the Hmong reside. However, that may be, it doesn't confirm that Hmoob Leeg is the original. But reading all the inputs on this thread and assuming that everybody provided a little truth to their perspectives, it is certainly most fascinating how Hmoob Dawb phonetics maintained its uniqueness from Hmong Leeg - which again, has been implied by many on the forum as the widely-spoken dialect and more glazed with Chinese tones. Using the same approach I learned in the class about English, I draw my own conclusions (not saying that it is fact or anything). But I'm not sure phers can handle it.     

That's right and that's what other scholar that I've talked to in California said to me concerning the Origin of the Hmong and White Hmong is the closest but not the root

[CheejSiav]

The lot of us who are of sound mind and are of worldly endowment can more or less make an educated assumption of what "conclusion" you may have drawn, 

Ironically, I have never personally heard a "Hmoob Dawb" claim nor suggest that their language and cultural practice(s) is the original and authentic product of our Hmong ancestors - White and Green. Well, maybe except for me, but I never said it was, only that it is something to consider for further investigation and research based off of historical content and/or academic scholarships. That however is not the case among the "Hmoob/Moob Ntsuab/Lees/Leeg", as I have heard several of them making this boastful unofficial claim -  .

What I find amusing (even comical if not hilarious), is that "Hmoob Dawb" only refers to themself as "Hmoob Dawb" - White, exclusively; whereas the Green Hmong, call themself either "Ntsuab", "Lees", or "Leeg" -  . (Ok, I admit "Lees" and "Leeg" are the same, just different per dialect, White and Green respectively.) Point is, Green Hmong cannot or do not even know which of the three they really are, or want to be called, so how can we, Hmong in general, take any "Hmoob/Moob Ntsuab, Lees, Leeg" unofficial boasting they claim seriously, or without suspicion - 

And please, let's not go into the "Hmoob/Moob Ntsuab, Lees, Leeg" dichotomy -  Yeah, maybe I may be highly opinionated, but I find that debacle purely - . Without touching that subject specifically, here's an analogy: an affluent African-American claims he/she is not a "ghetto negro". Interesting, yet we all know too well, they are in fact one and the same - natives of Africa,  (And I have heard several folklore about White and Green -  , LMAO! Ok, I'll stop there ...  )

lol

[hmongviking]

The religious people will start telling you how Hmong people are the lost tribe of Israel and cite from sources that they can't show you, and the anti religious people will start to tell the religious ones how stupid they are.

This is off topic but,

To todspengo:

Here are the sources that they can't show you:

The earliest work published in the West about the Miao or a Hmong-related group that I have been able to find was a French language article by Joseph Amiot published in 1778. The article discussed Christian missionary work with a Miao group in China. A half century later, in the 1830s and 1840s, a small but growing literature by Western-based writers began to develop. Many of these works consisted of articles with similar titles and themes. In 1831, an unlisted author published “Observations on the Miao-Tsze Mountaineers” in an English-language journal focusing on research in China.

F.M. Savina, best known for his French-language classic History des Miao which includes a large pullout map with a dotted line tracing what he believed to be the geographic origins of the Hmong people in present-day Iraq as a lost tribe of Israel. Savina also published a French-Hmong dictionary and articles about the Hmong and other Miao languages and Hmong/Miao rebellions in China.  F.M. Savina theorizes that they originated from the Middle-East (after the Tower of Babel), migrated north into Siberia, and then settled in China (qtd. in Yang).

I don't know how they came to this conclusion of Hmong people coming from the Tower of Babel, but it's interesting...

[todspengo]

This is off topic but,

To todspengo:

Here are the sources that they can't show you:

The earliest work published in the West about the Miao or a Hmong-related group that I have been able to find was a French language article by Joseph Amiot published in 1778. The article discussed Christian missionary work with a Miao group in China. A half century later, in the 1830s and 1840s, a small but growing literature by Western-based writers began to develop. Many of these works consisted of articles with similar titles and themes. In 1831, an unlisted author published “Observations on the Miao-Tsze Mountaineers” in an English-language journal focusing on research in China.

F.M. Savina, best known for his French-language classic History des Miao which includes a large pullout map with a dotted line tracing what he believed to be the geographic origins of the Hmong people in present-day Iraq as a lost tribe of Israel. Savina also published a French-Hmong dictionary and articles about the Hmong and other Miao languages and Hmong/Miao rebellions in China.  F.M. Savina theorizes that they originated from the Middle-East (after the Tower of Babel), migrated north into Siberia, and then settled in China (qtd. in Yang).

I don't know how they came to this conclusion of Hmong people coming from the Tower of Babel, but it's interesting...

Read this.

http://hmongstudies.org/GYLeeHSJ8.pdf

Some people in this forum dismiss his conclusions, but who are you going to believe? Self proclaim experts who regurgitates information they read on the internet or someone who actually did field studies in China, Laos and America.  Until someone with credibility comes along and debunks his conclusions, his work is regarded as the foremost expert on the Hmong people in the academia community.

[night912]

I haven't been on any forums for a while and you white supremacists are still trying to distort facts again?

Lets get one thing straight here, we are Hmong Leng. Green Hmong is what you white supremacists call us. It's either that the word Leng does not exist in the White Hmong dictionary or the White Hmong supremacists refuse to call us by what we call ourselves.

According to what I know, the true Green Hmong are the ones that practice cannabalism. They are the ones that tell their old parents to come down and get into the pot -- only to realize that their children will do the same to them. That's why they either died out or gave up the canabalistic practices and joined other Hmong groups.

And lets all be honest here, deep down, we all know that White Hmong is a bastardized version of Hmong Leng. It is not as powerful in comparison, that's why everybody talk trash in White. The White dialect itself sounds fake and phony. That may, in fact, be one of the qualities that made it so successful. If we were all to speak in Hmong Leng, there wouldn't be that much talking going on. It is not wise to joke in the language of the heavens. Verbal assualts in the Hmong Leng dialect are of the highest degree. For petty bullshit, we use the white dialect and English/foreign languages.

Boastful they may be, but unlike you guys, there is an absence of hatred in their words. I am sorry, but this s the truth about the white and "green" dialects. This is the view that will remain in effect for as long as Hmong Leng is spoken.

Your idea of white supremacy is backed by comments of leng supremacy. That's not helping you. 

[hmoobconan]

Your idea of white supremacy is backed by comments of leng supremacy. That's not helping you. 

You probably meant that my defense against white supremacy is leng supremacy.

I'm throwing out an honest view that is shared by many.
If you don't like it, share your views on the issue besides pinpointing my bias.

What you are doing is finding a flaw - my bias in this case - and dismissing everything because the truth hurts. Learn to overcome your denial and refrain from making pretty comments please.

Sorry, but I'm not Gandhi.

[night912]

I haven't been on any forums for a while and you white supremacists are still trying to distort facts again?

You probably meant that my defense against white supremacy is leng supremacy.

I'm throwing out an honest view that is shared by many.
If you don't like it, share your views on the issue besides pinpointing my bias.

What you are doing is finding a flaw - my bias in this case - and dismissing everything because the truth hurts. Learn to overcome your denial and refrain from making pretty comments please.

Sorry, but I'm not Gandhi.

That's part of debating. You admit yourself that you have a flaw in your logic and I pointed that out. Since you have a flaw, you yourself is distorting the facts.

[hmoobconan]

That's part of debating. You admit yourself that you have a flaw in your logic and I pointed that out. Since you have a flaw, you yourself is distorting the facts.

Have you even read past my bias?

If did, you would've realized that I'm putting out a view of how some or many Hmong Leng people honestly think about this issue.

Of course it is bound to be bias. But to dismiss it because you feel uneasy of its implications is laughable.

[night912]

Have you even read past my bias?

If did, you would've realized that I'm putting out a view of how some or many Hmong Leng people honestly think about this issue.

Of course it is bound to be bias. But to dismiss it because you feel uneasy of its implications is laughable.

And lets all be honest here, deep down, we all know that White Hmong is a bastardized version of Hmong Leng. It is not as powerful in comparison, that's why everybody talk trash in White. The White dialect itself sounds fake and phony. That may, in fact, be one of the qualities that made it so successful. If we were all to speak in Hmong Leng, there wouldn't be that much talking going on. It is not wise to joke in the language of the heavens. Verbal assualts in the Hmong Leng dialect are of the highest degree. For petty bullshit, we use the white dialect and English/foreign languages.

This sounds like Leng supremacy to me. It is not every bias that you said, it's the ones I have in bold from your quote. And if you don't agree that those comments are claiming Leng suprmacy, then you just proven that those white supremacist are correct about their race.

[hmoobconan]

This sounds like Leng supremacy to me. It is not every bias that you said, it's the ones I have in bold from your quote. And if you don't agree that those comments are claiming Leng suprmacy, then you just proven that those white supremacist are correct about their race.

lol I've failed to understand your logic, but I do find it amusing.

[chidorix0x]

Read this.

http://hmongstudies.org/GYLeeHSJ8.pdf

Some people in this forum dismiss his conclusions, but who are you going to believe? Self proclaim experts who regurgitates information they read on the internet or someone who actually did field studies in China, Laos and America.  Until someone with credibility comes along and debunks his conclusions, his work is regarded as the foremost expert on the Hmong people in the academia community.

Ever heard of the expression, "A dollar short and a day late.", or, "Monkey see monkey do." Of course you have.  Point is.

   ...  nice try. However, I hate to "burst" your GYLee bandwagon, but I can assure you without a doubt that GYLee did not or is not someone who actually did field studies in China, Laos and America. --- being a Hmong-Australian who has only visited the USA once or twice as a guest presenter.  As a matter of fact, GYLee did exactly what you suggested - that is - "Self proclaim experts who regurgitates information they read on the internet", plus other scholars' work.  And I can point you directly to the sources/resources behind GYLee's paper, but you are a smart individual, surely you can find them yourself - off of the Internet - with some points and clicks - here and there. As a matter of fact, one such scholar who GYLee has gracefully or ungratefully attributed his paper to is now a college professor in Hmong studies at a major university. (If you happen to find and read this professor's Master's thesis, you will see an almost identical parallel if not direct copy in GYLee's paper, of and about the same topic. I have this professor's thesis just so you know,    .) And since the lot of you LUV to cite Hmongstudies so much, why not read the other papers by NON-Hmong authors as well, and then you will see where your GYLee fits in -  (Hint: J. Lemoine's reply within the same site -  )

And please, not foremost whatsoever - not by a long shot. Why do you think hardly no one, or Hmong, has even ever heard of him. I sure haven't until I came across his name jotted here and there, wondering who the heck, from other more notable scholars such as Tapp, Lemoine, Yang (NOT the un/infamous Yang), Culas, Betraise, Mottin, Geddes, Bender, Hamilton-Merrit, etc. etc. .

Anyway, keep researching if you want to get off the GYLee bandwagon, else you will be going no where fast.