Can Hmong Achieve Self-Determination in SEAsia?

[YeejKoob13]

You've just proven that you are one of those who fear change. Something new comes along and you get scared thinking it will destroy you. You've already given up on preserving the hmong culture.

Define Hmong/Hmong culture... And with the changes however you feel like on a dime, flip flopping here and there, what exactly are you preserving then?

[night912]

Define Hmong/Hmong culture... And with the changes however you feel like on a dime, flip flopping here and there, what exactly are you preserving then?

YeejKoob13's definition of hmong culture:
Hmong can only slaughter animals at home.

[nightrider]

If you have ever read the chinese quasi-historical novel "A Romance of Three Kingdoms," there is a famous episode in there where an advisor helps one of the warlords striving to unite china visualize a home base, a territory, that he can consolidate his power in and launch his bid to unite china.  The warlord follows the advice and creates one of the three kingdoms that will eventually compete for supremacy.

I personally believe we have a similar favorable circumstance and all the tools now to do the same for our own self-determination.  However, we don't have the leadership or such far-sighted advisors.  Every year, that window of opportunity to achieve self-determination is closing.  What is even more sad is that not a single hmong leader has yet to see, to visualize, the situation so clearly.

I'm just curious what the opinion of everyone out there is on this subject.

Is it even possible?  Is it too late?  Is it too soon?  How is it achieved?  Where is it achieved?

It's too late! And definitely not possible, the best window of opportunity was back in NAM.

[HUNG TU LO]

It's too late! And definitely not possible, the best window of opportunity was back in NAM.

Uh oh. You're gonna have the Laos/French cock rider svantha coming after you now!

[SVanTha]

Uh oh. You're gonna have the Laos/French cock rider svantha coming after you now!

Hail comrade HUNG TO LO.  Welcome to this thread encouraging opinion and speculation; not facts.  You will do well here.

/salute

[Wi_sweetguy]

Anyone ever thought that maybe America didnt change who we are, but the fact that we are showing who we really are and our potential.  Self determination?  I took Native AMER. IND. and self determination is the biggest victory to any race or group of people.  Free will and freedom is self-determination.

[HUNG TU LO]

This svantha guy is a joke. He makes a thread about Hmong self-determination. And yet, he's drinking that Fool-Aid thinking that Laotians were gonna give us a piece of that pie. Don't talk to me about self-determination and self-awareness when you don't have an objection interpretation of history. Without Vietnam's fight for independence, all of Southeast Asia (except Thailand) would still be sucking French cock to sleep every night.

This is from your own damn citation:

"During the French persecution of the Hmong, the Lao leadership had little say in the conflict and in fact had to side along with the French because they were under the French control..."

"Tou Lia Lyfoung noted that anyone over eighteen years old must pay seventy-five brass coins in tax per year, but the Lao Leadership, who did the tax collection, did not exactly follow the tax code. They instead collected twelve more brass coins, for a total of eighty-seven brass coins. At the time, mostly the Hmong were poor people, had no income, and could not afford to pay the tax. To avoid jail detention, some Hmong had to sell their children to pay tax..."


Yeah, Laos loved us! The French loved us more! So what this our path to self-determination; to side with the filthy Royalty that looked at us as nothing but a source of free tax money? Man, you are out of touch with reality. Get with the program. You're family lineage isn't part of the 1% of rich and powerful Hmongs who stroked the Laos king's cock while getting boned from the behind by the French. You and I, our families were nothing but farmer garbage ethnic who happened to be living on their kingdom soil.

[SVanTha]

This svantha guy is a joke. He makes a thread about Hmong self-determination. And yet, he's drinking that Fool-Aid thinking that Laotians were gonna give us a piece of that pie. Don't talk to me about self-determination and self-awareness when you don't have an objection interpretation of history. Without Vietnam's fight for independence, all of Southeast Asia (except Thailand) would still be sucking French cock to sleep every night.

This is from your own damn citation:

"During the French persecution of the Hmong, the Lao leadership had little say in the conflict and in fact had to side along with the French because they were under the French control..."

"Tou Lia Lyfoung noted that anyone over eighteen years old must pay seventy-five brass coins in tax per year, but the Lao Leadership, who did the tax collection, did not exactly follow the tax code. They instead collected twelve more brass coins, for a total of eighty-seven brass coins. At the time, mostly the Hmong were poor people, had no income, and could not afford to pay the tax. To avoid jail detention, some Hmong had to sell their children to pay tax..."


Yeah, Laos loved us! The French loved us more! So what this our path to self-determination; to side with the filthy Royalty that looked at us as nothing but a source of free tax money? Man, you are out of touch with reality. Get with the program. You're family lineage isn't part of the 1% of rich and powerful Hmongs who stroked the Laos king's cock while getting boned from the behind by the French. You and I, our families were nothing but farmer garbage ethnic who happened to be living on their kingdom soil.

/hug

Ahhhhh it's ok, this is a thread welcoming opinion and speculation; even the opinions and speculations of dog-eating vietminh sympathizers and apologists.

XOXO

[Believe_N_Me]

How can a leader rise when no single Hmong person can define the core principles and beliefs of a Hmong? Everyday on PH, for example, there is a plethora of people with their own definition. And here we have academias along with others who seem to think having a bunch of new years is our biggest problem.  When we look at groups like the Jews or even Americans in general, there are basic core principles that everybody can agree upon despite all their differences. Americans are big on patriotism/individualism/freedom just as the Jews are big on the mitzvahs. These things keep them united even when they are at war with one another. So what are the things that the Hmong people can agree upon despite their differences? What are the common things that they are willing to die for? When everybody can agree on these things is when a leader can rise.

I have said it before under another post. We don't have a country to reference. It is our cultural traditions that binds us and creates the essence of a country for our people. Anybody looking to do away with that will drive a wedge in the communities and turn us into strangers amongst each other. When we no longer share the same values, attitudes, and norms then we are strangers. We are still family when we hold the same expectations of each other. When we are no longer familiar with each other then might as well just let the name "Hmong" die out.

[HUNG TU LO]

/hug

Ahhhhh it's ok, this is a thread welcoming opinion and speculation; even the opinions and speculations of dog-eating vietminh sympathizers and apologists.

XOXO

I'm not one of your fruitcake friends so don't mingle like you and I drink beer on the weekends together, son. Your facetiousness doesn't impress anyone nor does it affect me so you can drop that. Instead of being a jovial fruitcake, why don't you actually address the subject. What are you? 18 years old? Pfft.

[SVanTha]

I'm not one of your fruitcake friends so don't mingle like you and I drink beer on the weekends together, son. Your facetiousness doesn't impress anyone nor does it affect me so you can drop that. Instead of being a jovial fruitcake, why don't you actually address the subject. What are you? 18 years old? Pfft.

Well damn, if only you'd told me sooner you drank beer on the weekends.  That's like an iwin button.  That's like pulling a Chuck Norris.  Everybody knows you don't mess with a guy who drinks beer on the weekends or Chuck Norris.

[3 Years Time]

you're preaching about jumping from A's to Z w/out first bridging A and B how is that even possible? going by your definition, achieving a tomorrows world is first pillar by achieving yesterdays world.

If it's anything I learned in life so far, it's this: No one will understand what we mean unless they're at the same level. Why? Told people to invest in stocks after the economy dropped in Fall 2008 but they didn't, they wanted to make monthly payments on the "brand new" cars. The ones who listened made record profits on bank stocks. You should check the price of JP Morgan then, and then today. What does this have anything to do with my previous post? People who can't understand what I said in my original post will never have the capacity to understand what I just said about stocks. The ones who do are the ones who can make the world a better place, not because they listen, but because they actually get it. I'll stop there.

[hmongperson]

We have a sense of self-determination, we just don't have a collective sense of self-determination

My post being ignored is a good example of why we might not be able to achieve self-determination. We like to point our fingers and blame trivial matters, while ignoring the real problem. We all want self-determination, we all want to end up at the same end result. Only problem is we don't want to make that trip together.

Other ethnics have achieved independence because they can rally behind a person, or an ideology. Hmongs, we have never been able to rally behind any one person or ideology. We have good leaders and good ideas. Problem is that these leaders and ideas can't come together. One leader has to be better than the other, or one idea has to be better than the other.

We still have this barbaric notion of trying to be better than the rest. However, one cannot be better than the rest, if there is no "the rest" behind that individual. We are constantly trying to be the "first" at everything, or being the "only" at something else.
 
Just take a glimpse into the Hmong community, it is dotted with exclamations of being the "first" or being the "only". One has to remember, the "first" and "only" implies only one, one individual. Although we claim it is for the Hmong, it is only for one.

[Wi_sweetguy]

Kuv xab hais tias ua ntev GVP, peb rooj Hmong ua luam nqe xwb.  Npog saib tsis tau peb hmong li.  Yog tsis muaj GVP, pom yuav muaj peb hnus no.  In order to understand the core principle, you need to understand how other groups such as the Native Americans were able to have their own self determination?  Native Americans  are now their own people, their own group, their own sovereignty at the cost of many of their dear leaders.  Without the leaders, a group of people will be scatter to ashes.  When GVP was here, the Hmongs were able to accomplish so much with his presence.  Now that our icon is gone, let the new blood of positve influences flourish where ever hmongs may resign.

[chidorix0x]

I'm guessing it is "Laos" where this "SEAsia self-determination" is being touted?

Fact of the matter is, Laos itself and it's citizens -- specifically Laotians -- cannot even "self-determine" its own state of affairs; therefore it is ludicrous and delusional to assume or believe a minority group such as the Hmong-Lao can or will have any "self-determination" in SEAsia - Laos, with or without the aid of foreign resources -- US-Hmong specifically.

Speak with and ask any highly or semi-educated Hmong-Lao and they, he and/or she, will tell you "self-determination" in SEAsia is null and void.  As a matter of fact, that applies to the neighboring countries as well such as Vietnam, Burma, Cambodia, and Thailand.

I still do not quite understand why Hmong in general have such a huge affinity for Laos.  True, our grandparents and parents are Lao-refugees, but beyond that I really see no logic, rationale, or meaningful purpose to have anything to do with Laos -- self-determination or not.

And I'll quote a Hmong leader, not his exact words but close enough, "Until the communist regime acknowledges the importance of humanitarian rights and equality and work towards that effort, then we -- Hmong, Lao, and SEA-US citizens, are not ready to sit down at the table and shake hands with them."  There's the answer to "self-determination" within the 21st century.

Ua tsaug ...