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Author Topic: Hmong wedding process and the different roles people play in Hmong weddings  (Read 38821 times)

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chidorix0x

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Lilly, ( :))

Do not lose "hope".  As for those primitive, backwards, and caveman like antics, they mean nothing except to validate a lack of cultural awareness, knowledge, and insight of and about Hmong-centric ceremony/practices -- being so ill-informed, if not ignorant; thus they have no choice but to defer to Google/WWW for whatever "general info" it can offer  ...   ;D

What is "hilarious" is that despite the caveman antics, the instigator(s) has failed to draft anything of any relevance except to squawk incessantly - lol.

I will "chime" in whenever, or after Google/WWW has had ample time to squawk - lol  ...   O0 .

Ua tsaug ...   :)



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chidorix0x

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It is no "surprise" the squawking Google/WWW aficionados have embraced the brother/sister-hood of crickets,  :2funny:, and have all but blossomed into mimes.

Oh well, perhaps it is time to provide Lilly with the information she had inquired about since the squawkers squawked and squawked but nadda, zip, zero, nothing relevant has been publicized, or explained etc. -- cept links, blah blah blah.

Before elaborating on a traditional Hmong wedding, let us answer some of Lilly's question.

What is the role of the mejkoob?

The "mejkoob", two men per each side - the groom's and bride's -, are "mediators" who conduct and at times help to resolve issues that may arise, during and throughout, the entirety of a traditional Hmong wedding ceremony.  Two "mejkoob" are used per side for all White Hmong, "cov Hmoob Dawb" -- their customs.  Only one "mejkoob" per side is used among the Green Hmong, "cov Moob Leeg/Lees/Ntsuab" -- their customs.  (Note: There are some nuisances and variants between the Green and White Hmong wedding ceremony but that is beyond this discussion.  And yes, Green and White Hmong can marry one another despite these nuisances and variants.)

Does the lwm qaib person have to be a male?  Do you have to give money to the bride's family when you send men to fij xo?  Are there drinking involved at the fij xo?

The "lwm qaib" person does not have to be a male, but the norm - that is 9.5/10 times - it is indeed a male.  However, a female can do it also.  There is no Hmong rule or "traditional mandate" that says a woman cannot, provide she knows what to say during the blessing. 

Yes, during a "fi xov" or "fij xo", money and cigarettes are needed and is required.  The incremental amount are:  1. $20 for the person receiving the message - "tus txais xov" - directly given to him 2. $20 is the message - "thoob lub xo" - it's tied within one of the knots of the striped ribbon, "txoj siv ceeb", and finally 3. $60 towards or for the family's relatives referred to as - "dej txhuv tsis paub faib hno" - it's tied within the other or second knot of the striped ribbon.  (Note:  Some Hmong tie 3-knots, the third being the $20 of #1, but the majority only tie 2-knots.)  And the cigarettes are obviously for "tsab yeeb" -- covered later.

No, there is no drinking during a "fi xov", at least to my knowledge and per all the ones I have witnessed and/or participated in.  If there is any drinking whatsoever, it is probably just for "fun", or gestures of friendship/acquaintances.  Alcohol/drinking is definitely not part of the "fi xov" ceremony.  Bowing (kowtow) definitely is though,  O0 -- covered later.

At the end of the wedding the bride's family tells the bride to not look back.  What happens if she looks back?

There is no known explanation/problem, that I know of or have heard if she looks back, but the belief is that she is beginning a "new life" as a woman, wife, and mother to be; therefore she is leaving behind her "previous life" of a girl, daughter, and sister thus she should be looking forward and towards her new family - hers and her husband's future - not back at or to her past.  That's it more or less.  Anything else besides this, I have never heard or do not know.

What is the significance of the black umbrella?

The black umbrella, first and foremost, represents the "girl to be wed" - "tus nkauj nyab".  And secondly, it is symbolic and representative of a traditional "Hmong wedding" - meaning that when anyone sees the "black umbrella tied with a striped cloth" around it, they know a wedding is going on.  (There is a folklore or "dab neeg" about this, but I cannot remember it ...  :()  Only solid colored umbrella should be used; thus red, yellow, orange, and/or any other bright colors are a no-no -- at least that is the practice and norm.

Now that most questions have been answered, let us look at a traditional Hmong wedding -- its process from start to end -- the very moment a guy decides he wants to marry his girlfriend, High School/College sweetheart, or Yawm Saub/God forbid a mysterious hot lady/girl he met at the Hmong New Year, soccer tournament, bar, club, house party etc..

That said, be aware of the fact that there are actually five-well-known traditional Hmong wedding ceremonies and/or practices.  (This is something Google/WWW squawkers will most likely "NOT" find any information on or about, especially regarding the process, procedures, and requirements/expectations.)  Of the five, the most popular and widely practiced in the West - namely the USA - is in fact "tshoob tog qw", meaning "marriage among singles", or young couples, adolescents, and/or "virgins" -- hopefully, :-X.

The five traditional Hmong weddings are:
1.  Marriage among singles - "tshoob tog qw" == most widely practiced in the West/USA
2.  Bride-napping or Bride-kidnapping - "tshoob zij" == illegal in the West/USA, though still "ok" in SEAsia
3.  Pre-arranged or Prior Engagement (Hmong do have pre-arranged marriages, but I am using it loosely here.) - "nqis tsev hais" == "ok" in the West/USA and SE Asia, though extremely rare here/USA (Note: It can also be the most "expensive".  Just depends on the bride's family or the groom's financial and social status. Some brides have been "free" because the groom is from a well-known, respected, and affluent family line,  O0)
4.  Divorcee - "tshoob poj nrauj" == "ok" in the West/USA and SEAsia, mainly among the elders
5.  Widows - "tshoob poj ntsuam" == "ok" in the West/USA and SEAsia, mainly among the elders
*** 6.  Eloping and/or Leaving Together - "tsis ua tshoob" == late 20th Century and 21st Century phenomenon, most popular in the West/USA (No comment - tsis raws Hmoob kev cai)

NO, I will not be elaborate on the other 4 traditional Hmong weddings and/or practices.  (Let the Google/WWW squawkers "mouse click" to their hearts' desire in this regard  ...   :2funny:)

... to be continued ... ( :))



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Offline lilly

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As always, thank you so much, Chidorix0x!  I appreciate all the information given so far.  I anxiously await the continuation.  :)



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Online theking

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Lilly, ( :))

Do not lose "hope".  As for those primitive, backwards, and caveman like antics, they mean nothing except to validate a lack of cultural awareness, knowledge, and insight of and about Hmong-centric ceremony/practices -- being so ill-informed, if not ignorant; thus they have no choice but to defer to Google/WWW for whatever "general info" it can offer  ...   ;D

What is "hilarious" is that despite the caveman antics, the instigator(s) has failed to draft anything of any relevance except to squawk incessantly - lol.

I will "chime" in whenever, or after Google/WWW has had ample time to squawk - lol  ...   O0 .

Ua tsaug ...   :)

Says Mr. "Ruam" that continues to fail at reading comp. ;D



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jetter

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you just have to alter your keywords to find what you want.  For example if you wanted to know the intricate details of the whole process you might want to try the following:

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=txheej+txheem+tshoob+kos&revid=-1

or

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=kab+tshoob+kev+kos&spell=1

or

http://scoler927.free.fr/hmoobkabliskevcaithiabkevntseeg/kev_cai_txheej_txheem_tshoob_kos__cawv__kaus__kawm_421.htm

or

http://lennon.csufresno.edu/~vl059/tshoobkos.htm

What is the role of the mejkoob?
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=hmong+wedding+meaning+role+of+mej+koob


What is the significance of the black umbrella?
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=hmong+wedding+meaning+of+black+umbrella


Does the lwm qaib person have to be a male?  Do you have to give money to the bride's family when you send men to fij xo?  Are there drinking involved at the fij xo?
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=hmong+wedding++lwm+qaib+male+female

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=hmong+wedding+fi+xov++requirements


At the end of the wedding the bride's family tells the bride to not look back.  What happens if she looks back?
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=hmong+wedding+bride+not+look+back

 6.  Eloping and/or Leaving Together - "tsis ua tshoob" == late 20th Century and 21st Century phenomenon, most popular in the West/USA
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=kaj+tshoob+kev+kov&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#fp=595aa89e80dad263&q=hmong+couple+living+together+no+wedding

the list goes on and on and on covering different topics.  There's even books written in much more detail than what's posted here and it's written before the internet.

The internet has been out for a very long time and the information is pretty huge and this is not a new topic that no one knows about.



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chidorix0x

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jetter, ( :2funny:  ...   :idiot2:)

Have you tried to click on your Google/WWW search links -- LMAO!  Obviously not!  (Hint:  Some of the links comes right back to this "THREAD" - LMAO! -  :idiot2:  ...   :2funny:)

And I will go out on a limb and say there is "NO" official book, document, or publication I know of, except for one which I have not had the pleasure of reading through, that remotely covers any details regarding a traditional Hmong wedding.  As a matter of fact, all the Google/WWW/internet including books and publication I have seen and read through just goes over the general synopsis/steps.  And that information is by no means "detailed" or of any "detail" whatsoever.  But for all the Google/WWW squawkers, it is probably "gold" - :2funny: - being so ill-informed, ignorant, and likely clueless.

Take this Google/WWW squawker link for example, per jetter's search/link taken from above: http://ahmongwoman.com/2011/10/08/traditional-hmong-weddings-and-marriages/ .  It says, and I quote: "There are 3 different ways a couple can initiate a wedding." --  :2funny:  ...   :idiot2: (Fact is, there a 5, which have been listed,  O0 .  Clearly, this article was written by someone who has little to no intimate knowledge about traditional Hmong weddings except generalization and whatever "general information" they could Google/WWW or whatever.  Funny stuff - fawking hilarious - if you read the article etc., provided you know the facts versus Google/WWW mumbo-jumbo.)

Ua tsaug ...   :)



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Online theking

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jetter, ( :2funny:  ...   :idiot2:)

Have you tried to click on your Google/WWW search links -- LMAO!  Obviously not!  (Hint:  Some of the links comes right back to this "THREAD" - LMAO! -  :idiot2:  ...   :2funny:)

Then the stuff you posted on this "THREAD" must also be posted by a person that is "ill-informed, ignorant, and likely clueless" and can only provide "general" information since Google found it ::), because according to you, that's pretty much what Google is good for ...

I rather get my information from people that have actually published/produced resources easily accessible in the Google realm then listen to crickets for days from people that can't answer shit and needed that time to do their own research (perhaps, even utilizing Google along the way  ;D) if I was researching for something. Yeah, the stuff available on Google is that good because many of the people that provided those information have legit knowledge like Tougeu Leepalao. I can guarantee you that legit knowledgeable people like him won't need days of stalling or to do research to answer lilly's inquiry  O0.

As I've said, she brought up your name in the initial inquiry and for days, nothing but cricket sounds then I showed her another way of getting the information needed faster, you can't handle it like a 1 y.o. that just gotten his pacifier taken away abruptly. What took you so long then? Obviously, you don't have the information readily available and needed to do your own research. Perhaps even using the internet i.e., Google to get the information  ;D.


« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 07:06:05 PM by theking »

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chidorix0x

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 :2funny:  ...  Google/WWW squawkers  ...   :idiot2:

Hint:  "As for those primitive, backwards, and caveman like antics, they mean nothing except to validate a lack of cultural awareness, knowledge, and insight of and about Hmong-centric ceremony/practices -- being so ill-informed, if not ignorant; thus they have no choice but to defer to Google/WWW for whatever "general info" it can offer ... ;D

What is "hilarious" is that despite the caveman antics, the instigator(s) has failed to draft anything of any relevance except to squawk incessantly - lol.

I will "chime" in whenever, or after Google/WWW has had ample time to squawk - lol,  O0.

Ua tsaug ...   :)"

Why don't you Google/WWW squawkers "mouse click" to your heart's content and explain to Lilly and the rest of us about these then -- its process, procedures, resolution, etc..

2.  Bride-napping or Bride-kidnapping - "tshoob zij" == illegal in the West/USA, though still "ok" in SEAsia
3.  Pre-arranged or Prior Engagement (Hmong do have pre-arranged marriages, but I am using it loosely here.) - "nqis tsev hais" == "ok" in the West/USA and SE Asia, though extremely rare here/USA (Note: It can also be the most "expensive".  Just depends on the bride's family or the groom's financial and social status. Some brides have been "free" because the groom is from a well-known, respected, and affluent family line,  O0)
4.  Divorcee - "tshoob poj nrauj" == "ok" in the West/USA and SEAsia, mainly among the elders
5.  Widows - "tshoob poj ntsuam" == "ok" in the West/USA and SEAsia, mainly among the elders
*** 6.  Eloping and/or Leaving Together - "tsis ua tshoob" == late 20th Century and 21st Century phenomenon, most popular in the West/USA (No comment - tsis raws Hmoob kev cai)

We/I eagerly await all your "mouse clicking" links, key word searches, publication, articles, and any in-depth research, especially from Google/WWW and books, even from Tougeu Leepalao -- his books, videos, or whatever you can find via Google/WWW, or the library for that matter ...   :2funny:  (And can we/I get a summary, preferably detailed report, of your findings versus random internet links that goes in circles, which ultimately ends back here -- what I have posted/published ...  ;D  ...   O0)

Ua tsaug ...   :)


« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 11:57:35 PM by chidorix0x »

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Online theking

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Says Mr. "Ruam" that continues to fail at reading comp. yet again.  ;D



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Online theking

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What is "hilarious" is that despite the caveman antics, the instigator(s) has failed to draft anything of any relevance except to squawk incessantly - lol.



Another thing to add: Do you even know what an "instigator" is? If not, read post #3 and #5 of this thread and you shall receive your answer.

Those two posts combined with your other insult posts on this thread = a kid that's looking for trouble but when he gets punched in the mouth, he goes running to his mommy and whine and cry that the other person started.

Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong showing another person a much faster resource especially after it's been days. If you have a problem with that, YOU are the problem as you have days to answer the inquiry but didn't then cried about it after the fact.



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chidorix0x

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 :2funny:  ...  says those Google/WWW squawkers " ...  those primitive, backwards, and caveman like antics, they mean nothing except to validate a lack of cultural awareness, knowledge, and insight of and about Hmong-centric ceremony/practices -- being so ill-informed, if not ignorant; thus they have no choice but to defer to Google/WWW for whatever "general info" it can offer ... "  ...   :idiot2:  ...   ::)

We/I await the Google/WWW squawkers report -- "mouse clicking", "key word searches", "showing another person a much faster resource(s)" -- in regards to the list below ...   8)  (We'll keep it simple, just choose "one" and report back to us ok Google/WWW squawkers.  We want to know what your Google/WWW squawking has to offer ...   :D  ...   :))

2.  Bride-napping or Bride-kidnapping - "tshoob zij" == illegal in the West/USA, though still "ok" in SEAsia
3.  Pre-arranged or Prior Engagement (Hmong do have pre-arranged marriages, but I am using it loosely here.) - "nqis tsev hais" == "ok" in the West/USA and SE Asia, though extremely rare here/USA (Note: It can also be the most "expensive".  Just depends on the bride's family or the groom's financial and social status. Some brides have been "free" because the groom is from a well-known, respected, and affluent family line,  O0)
4.  Divorcee - "tshoob poj nrauj" == "ok" in the West/USA and SEAsia, mainly among the elders
5.  Widows - "tshoob poj ntsuam" == "ok" in the West/USA and SEAsia, mainly among the elders
*** 6.  Eloping and/or Leaving Together - "tsis ua tshoob" == late 20th Century and 21st Century phenomenon, most popular in the West/USA (No comment - tsis raws Hmoob kev cai)

Ua tsaug ...   :)

(Note:  At least Google/WWW is/was kind enough to provide the lot of you "squawkers" some general info.  It is better than nothing, as "ignorance is bliss.")

I will "chime" in whenever, or after Google/WWW has had ample time to squawk  - lol,  O0.


« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 11:48:39 AM by chidorix0x »

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Offline lilly

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Ugh, Chidorix0x... but but... I don't want to wait.  I want your knowledge and not googles/WWW's.  Please don't mind those people... I prefer your more thorough info to the "general" google/www's info.  Thank you.



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chidorix0x

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Ugh, Chidorix0x... but but... I don't want to wait.  I want your knowledge and not googles/WWW's.  Please don't mind those people... I prefer your more thorough info to the "general" google/www's info.  Thank you.

Patience  ...   :)  ...   8)

I will "chime" in whenever, or after Google/WWW has had ample time to squawk    - lol,  O0.

(Note:  Starting tomorrow, I will be super busy - muaj kwv tij ua noj ua haus - so I may not be able to continue until early next week, which by the way will give Google/WWW squawkers plenty of time to "mouse click", "key word searches", "showing another person a much faster resource(s)", and hopefully provide us with their report(s) --   :2funny:)

I for one want to see this report(s), as I am always open to anything Google/WWW squawkers can provide that I do not know or already know and then some ...  8)

Ua tsaug ...   :)



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Offline lilly

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Patience  ...   :)  ...   8)

I will "chime" in whenever, or after Google/WWW has had ample time to squawk    - lol,  O0.

(Note:  Starting tomorrow, I will be super busy - muaj kwv tij ua noj ua haus - so I may not be able to continue until early next week, which by the way will give Google/WWW squawkers plenty of time to "mouse click", "key word searches", "showing another person a much faster resource(s)", and hopefully provide us with their report(s) --   :2funny:)

I for one want to see this report(s), as I am always open to anything Google/WWW squawkers can provide that I do not know or already know and then some ...  8)

Ua tsaug ...   :)

OK.  I'll wait...



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Online theking

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(Note:  At least Google/WWW is/was kind enough to provide the lot of you "squawkers" some general info.  It is better than nothing, as "ignorance is bliss.")

Yeah like the "general" info you posted on this thread since Google was "kind enough" to provide it.  ;D



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