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Author Topic: Those who are against "bride price"  (Read 15892 times)

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Offline thehotone

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Those who are against "bride price"
« on: October 01, 2013, 12:26:15 PM »
I know alot of pple are against the "bride price" that we Hmong have been practicing for generations now and let it be known that it's just not the Hmong who practice this but all of the Southeast Asians do. Thai requires money and gold, so do Laotians and Vietnamese. Hmong are actually simpler, all they want is cash now.

As the parents of the bride, how would you feel about not asking for the bride price but instead pi-cua (I can't spell in Hmong) your daughter gold and cash along with other items for her new life? You'll be hosting the wedding out of your own pockets, of course, and then sending your daughter off to his family with your gold and money.

When I tell people how I feel about it, it's almost you're paying to get rid of your daughter.  ;D So the best solution should be ask for the bride price, use that little money to pay for the wedding expenses and gift it back to your daughter...... ....... right?



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BoredatWork

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 01:24:55 PM »
Do you understand the reasoning for the head price?  From what I understand the money is used as leverage by the parents of the bride to ensure her husband loves her(kind of like a down payment so if you default on your loan you have something to lose).  I know a lot of pple think of it as paying for a person but that's not what it is supposed to be.  Once my dad sees that the couple is stable (X amount of years and X amount of kids) and have been together for long enough, he usually gives the head price money back to his daughter and son in law. 



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Offline theking

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 03:04:27 PM »
I know alot of pple are against the "bride price" that we Hmong have been practicing for generations now and let it be known that it's just not the Hmong who practice this but all of the Southeast Asians do. Thai requires money and gold, so do Laotians and Vietnamese. Hmong are actually simpler, all they want is cash now.

As the parents of the bride, how would you feel about not asking for the bride price but instead pi-cua (I can't spell in Hmong) your daughter gold and cash along with other items for her new life? You'll be hosting the wedding out of your own pockets, of course, and then sending your daughter off to his family with your gold and money.

When I tell people how I feel about it, it's almost you're paying to get rid of your daughter.  ;D So the best solution should be ask for the bride price, use that little money to pay for the wedding expenses and gift it back to your daughter...... ....... right?

True that several countries practice it. Some parents even pay the groom vs. the other way, to take in their daughter. According to some experts, Hmong actually adopted this practice from the Chinese so it's wasn't a Hmong thing to begin with. The funny part is Chinese for the most part have moved forward and dropped that primitive practice while many Hmong still practice it.

If I have a daughter, I would not ask or even mention it because that primitive practice doesn't make sense in this day and age anymore. I would rather the young couple or the groom's parents use that money for the wedding celebration or invest in the young couple's future.



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Offline dlabtsi_os

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2013, 04:51:52 PM »
True that several countries practice it. Some parents even pay the groom vs. the other way, to take in their daughter. According to some experts, Hmong actually adopted this practice from the Chinese so it's wasn't a Hmong thing to begin with. The funny part is Chinese for the most part have moved forward and dropped that primitive practice while many Hmong still practice it.

If I have a daughter, I would not ask or even mention it because that primitive practice doesn't make sense in this day and age anymore. I would rather the young couple or the groom's parents use that money for the wedding celebration or invest in the young couple's future.

Personally, I don't believe that in face value.  :2funny: However, you know theking there is always that third traditional option of Hmong wedding. Where the future bride and groom stays at two family in certain amount of days and then consider as marry. As for payment it's either a yes or no. What Hmong OG doesn't like is paying the expense for the bride of groom using their stuff. But usually they should able to overlook that if the family has a steady income. :2funny:



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Offline lilly

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2013, 05:01:31 PM »
The dowry/bride price does not have much value to me anymore.  I will not ask my future son-in-law to pay to marry my daughter.  My plan is... before they officially get married, I will have a special talk with him... that if he is not serious in any shape or form when it comes to respecting her, loving her, taking care of her heart/mind/body... he should walk away.  That will be my gift to my daughter. 



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Sydney

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 02:06:32 PM »
Buy a house, a car, and have a job and love my child and you can have my daughter for a bride.  I won't put a value on her head.  She is her own person to choose her future path.  All I ask is that they will do the wedding out of their own pocket.  The moment is his and hers, not the relatives or the parents.  No money is asked, only given. 

Am I against bride price?  No, but I refuse to practice something that does not ensure or guaranteed happiness for my child. 



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 01:53:38 PM »
I will be asking for a bride token. My concerns are not with the groom but with his parents and their family members. The visual exchange is symbolic that they have accepted my daughter into their family. This exchange is no different then when we pay upfront fees to process paperwork at INS to be naturalized.

If the bride and groom wants an Americanized wedding celebration then it should come out of their own pockets. My only concern is the transaction and union between myself and the groom's parents under the traditional Hmong marriage ceremony. Many ignorant, younger Hmong folks do not understand that the Hmoob tshoob is for the parents to signify their union. This is why there is that saying "mus ua tshoob rau niam tais thiab yawm txiv." Whatever happens outside of that "peb tsis k".

Again, those that criticize are completely ignorant of the culture and the reasons behind them. They look at it from a non-Hmong perspective. Not only that but the views they hold for themselves don't even make sense. Like, why would you pay a wedding celebration for your kid? It's their love relationship, they should pay for it themselves.  ::) Secondly, I would not give money to invest in their future when there is no guarantee the marriage will stay in tact. I will, however, invest in any children that they produce together.



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hmongperson

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 03:19:34 AM »
Hmong people and their ignorance never cease to amuse me. You guys got it wrong, and your parents got it wrong, their parents got it wrong, etc.... It goes way back to years of misinformation and ignorance. There was a price, but it was never called a "bride price" or "head price". And it was never meant to mean anything similar to that.

The "bride price" came into existence because of greedy Hmongs who used it to to force their wives to stay with them, or greedy inlaws who used it to force their son-in-law to continuing keeping thier lazy wives.

If one looked closely at the "zaj tshoob" and the many stories that we have to explain things one will realize that the "bride price" does not exist. A certain price does exist, but it is not meant to serve the purpose that we use it for today. Most "meej koob" don't know this because they are not tasked to comprehend the verses, but rather to regurgitate. Mind you, it takes very little brain power to regurgitate. Or simply most "meej koob" just over look the matter because it is not the "norm".

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.

This is the reason a groom pays a price. Hmongs have a circular way of thinking, like a belief in karma. The price, in sense, helps to keep the ball rolling. But, along the way Hmongs started to getting greedy and thus we end up with the perverted "bride price" that we have today. We have drifted so far from the original ideal that now the notion of a "price" is being seen as archaic and bad.

The Hmong culture and Hmong way of life is about brotherhood, sisterhood, and family. Women use to be held in high prestige since it use to be common knowledge that it is the woman that makes the man. Who is it that ultimately ends up saving and elevating the life of the orphan boy? One use to be able to trust their spouse being alone with another person of the opposite sex as long as that other person had the same last name. One use to be able to go to a Hmong village, not know anyone and have a place to sleep and a warm meal to eat. Weddings use to meant the celebration and joining of two families.

Women are seen as objects to be used rather than savior of men. The Hmongs have a saying that a woman can make or break a man. We can see the misuse/appreciation of women happening around us in the Hmong community everyday. Hmongs look the other way when another Hmong is in need. Weddings are now a place to start conflict or settle conflicts.

 Don't get me wrong though, some women are succubus', and some men are valiant. There are those out there that strive to help out selflessly. But, a community's strength is measured by it's weakest links. And thus far, our weakest links is made up of a significan.If this generation is going to be the ones to inherit the future, I have no faith.

 



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3 Years Time

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 08:49:46 AM »
I know alot of pple are against the "bride price" that we Hmong have been practicing for generations now and let it be known that it's just not the Hmong who practice this but all of the Southeast Asians do. Thai requires money and gold, so do Laotians and Vietnamese. Hmong are actually simpler, all they want is cash now.

As the parents of the bride, how would you feel about not asking for the bride price but instead pi-cua (I can't spell in Hmong) your daughter gold and cash along with other items for her new life? You'll be hosting the wedding out of your own pockets, of course, and then sending your daughter off to his family with your gold and money.

When I tell people how I feel about it, it's almost you're paying to get rid of your daughter.  ;D So the best solution should be ask for the bride price, use that little money to pay for the wedding expenses and gift it back to your daughter...... ....... right?
You're right, SE Asians also do. If you knew your history, Hmong aren't Southeast Asians, we're East Asians.

Our Hmong in China do not practice bride price, we got the idea when we got to SE Asia. Remember now, there are still more Hmong people in China than there are anywhere else in the world. Just because our specific group migrated to SE Asia doesn't make us SE Asians. If we migrated to Europe, does that make us European? No.



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Offline DuMa

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 09:00:39 AM »
if you have issue with the cultural rule of paying a fee for a wedding, my advice is for you to wait until both of your parents and her parents die off so that you can do it your way or the high way  :2funny:

With my viet people, if the guy pay, the girl comes living with the guy's family and be a nyab.  If the girl pays, the guy goes living with her parents and be her biatch.   :2funny:



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luckyvang

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 05:55:41 PM »
Goodie... I don't know how this thread started up, but this is how I got interested in this topic again.

http://matadornetwork.com/community/tiffanyvang2/hmong-18-clan-council-conference-there-are-just-things-you-cant-save/#comment-898

Read this article, give your opinion, and find out how off topic some people are....

I'll be back to check on the progress.



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luckyvang

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 06:13:28 PM »

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.


Good statement.  Took the words out of my mouth.  Here is a verse I'd like to put in....

Phoojywg coj kev sis laug, kuv lawv txiv nyuj qua pwm moog sawv kuv naj kuv txiv lub nkuaj ntsuab, tes miv ntxhais nkauj mog qua mim yuav moog taab kuam tau kuv nam kuv txiv tom ub lub zoo cuab. 

Dearest friends who travel the road of equality, I will steer the bull to stand (archaic meaning to "uphold") my parents green pen, and the bride will become for my parents "over there" a good daughter in law. 

Lub cuab lub yig doesn't mean daughter in law, but this makes more sense to non-hmong speakers. 



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AOZ

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2013, 03:38:47 PM »
LOLs.  so tired of hearing brideprice sides.

let's put it this way... if my daughters fall in love with you.... and you will not pay brideprice... I will pay your parents GROOMSPRICE and you move in to live with us.   O0 ;D



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2013, 11:36:34 PM »
Hmong people and their ignorance never cease to amuse me. You guys got it wrong, and your parents got it wrong, their parents got it wrong, etc.... It goes way back to years of misinformation and ignorance. There was a price, but it was never called a "bride price" or "head price". And it was never meant to mean anything similar to that.

The "bride price" came into existence because of greedy Hmongs who used it to to force their wives to stay with them, or greedy inlaws who used it to force their son-in-law to continuing keeping thier lazy wives.

If one looked closely at the "zaj tshoob" and the many stories that we have to explain things one will realize that the "bride price" does not exist. A certain price does exist, but it is not meant to serve the purpose that we use it for today. Most "meej koob" don't know this because they are not tasked to comprehend the verses, but rather to regurgitate. Mind you, it takes very little brain power to regurgitate. Or simply most "meej koob" just over look the matter because it is not the "norm".

After peering through countless books of "zaj tshoob" and asking numerous elders this is the conclusion I came to. When a Hmong man marries a Hmong woman he must pay a certain amount. The money is paid to show his appreciation to her parents for giving birth to her and raising her so that on that day he is able to marry her. The groom knows that taking his wife away from her family will cause a certain amount of physical burden on her family, primarily physical labor. The money is meant to try and ease that burden by having the bride's parents use it to help hire people to help them farm if need be, or in most cases to marry a bride for their own son.

This is the reason a groom pays a price. Hmongs have a circular way of thinking, like a belief in karma. The price, in sense, helps to keep the ball rolling. But, along the way Hmongs started to getting greedy and thus we end up with the perverted "bride price" that we have today. We have drifted so far from the original ideal that now the notion of a "price" is being seen as archaic and bad.

The Hmong culture and Hmong way of life is about brotherhood, sisterhood, and family. Women use to be held in high prestige since it use to be common knowledge that it is the woman that makes the man. Who is it that ultimately ends up saving and elevating the life of the orphan boy? One use to be able to trust their spouse being alone with another person of the opposite sex as long as that other person had the same last name. One use to be able to go to a Hmong village, not know anyone and have a place to sleep and a warm meal to eat. Weddings use to meant the celebration and joining of two families.

Women are seen as objects to be used rather than savior of men. The Hmongs have a saying that a woman can make or break a man. We can see the misuse/appreciation of women happening around us in the Hmong community everyday. Hmongs look the other way when another Hmong is in need. Weddings are now a place to start conflict or settle conflicts.

 Don't get me wrong though, some women are succubus', and some men are valiant. There are those out there that strive to help out selflessly. But, a community's strength is measured by it's weakest links. And thus far, our weakest links is made up of a significan.If this generation is going to be the ones to inherit the future, I have no faith.

 

In a nutshell, it's an exchange. You add to your family by taking away from mine so pay up.



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hmongperson

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Re: Those who are against "bride price"
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2013, 04:52:17 PM »
In a nutshell, it's an exchange. You add to your family by taking away from mine so pay up.
So you can add to yours, thus continuing the cycle.



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