Universal Healthcare

[Believe_N_Me]

Um, ok. 

Using your logic, wisdom is not subjective.  So, tell us how to mathematically measure wisdom.   

I'll believe you when you can get your facts right.  2/3 Compromise?   

I don't have to explain how to measure wisdom. I just know that you don't have it. 

It doesn't take a genius to realize that even though you come in to divert people by trying to apply all the rules of logic in your responses, YOU DON'T really have a clue about how anything works. You somehow think that if you can score more points by applying the rules of logic more accurately than anybody else, you're smarter and more correct. Not true. All it proves is that you know your rules of logic and can apply them.  However, there is no value in anything you've written.

A good debater is only that -----> a good debater. I'm sure a great debater like Hitchens can argue circles around a neurosurgeon. But at the end of the day, I'm going to take the neurosurgeon's word when it comes to Neurology.

[bulbasaur]

I have to say it again, I like universal healthcare.  I got hurt again while abroad, and I was lucky enough to be covered again.  I really need to be more careful when traveling. 

[bulbasaur]

You really need to stop projecting your shortcomings on me.  It's so bad that you are stalking me.  It's so bad that you are talking about me in threads that don't concern me.  Look at yourself right now.  I'd laugh, but it's more pathetic than funny. 

BTW, it's not hard to find your mistakes.  You make them in almost every discussion. 

I'm glad it was minor...what would PH be like without our snarky Bulba to entertain us and bark at us every time we make a mistake.

[Xyooj96]

without reading every post of this thread, it's common sense that universal healthcare works fine. it's the American mentality of capitalism that make it not to work.

if everyone has the same basic, and anyone that wants the extra pays for those extra then everyone will be happy.

[shina]

I don't think people understand what Obamacare is.  Even Congress didn't read it before voting for it.  This was why the Obama administration called American voters "stupid".  The truth is, Obamacare is too expensive for the working poor.  Now, Obama mandated that they should only eat after they buy health insurance.  They may have it, but couldn't use it because the deductible would be too high and they couldn't afford to pay.  Obamacare sucks!!!!!   It was design with the insurance companies making BIG money in mind. 

[Renaissance]

Who's paying for "universal healthcare?"  It will most likely come from the pockets of the middle class and upper class.  The most hardworking will support everyone.

[bulbasaur]

Someone disagrees with you...

You cannot fix a system that is economically broken with another system that is even more economically broken.  The rationale here is due to how human being work...neurosc ience shows that human being makes their most important decision based upon the crocodile brain.  Obama administration is using game theory, EI and high dimensional data analysis to manipulate all of simpletons who thinks you are so educated.  When the smart is outsmart, they don't even see it coming...it's so obvious to the outside watching what is going on except the one the trick is being played on.  Jokes on us America and it is no laughing matter.

 

If you thinks ACA is a great legislation... you need to wait several more years to see the full effect of it.  What I can tell you after reading through the entire ACA is that the legislation is designed around three themes: access, quality, and cost.  Essentially, the government is telling companies to stop over charging the government for the services, goods, and horrible quality of service.  The government is saying, SOLVE the problem...The downside is business are design to create a repeat business model (band-aids) and the side effect is the problem solving.  This is why pharma does not rush to create a vaccine unless the government is funding it.  Pharma likes to focus on drugs with a large market and repeat business - chronic illness.  It's unclear how mandating access is going to give access when the government is also the problem.

[bulbasaur]

Some people seem to think that when I support the health care system in other countries, I mean that they have superior health care professionals and technology.  Not really.  America is still one of the best (if not the best) country with the best trained professionals and technology.  The only issue is whether or not people have access to these professionals and technology.  Or, if they can have access to these professionals and technology without going broke.  Dr. Andrews may be the best, but there is no way I can afford Dr. Andrews.  I'm willing to settle for a capable doctor. 

[bulbasaur]

 

Everyone charges a fee for their services including you.  If you cannot afford the fee for the best services then you settle for what you can afford.

[bulbasaur]

Some people try too hard, but they just keep failing.  You really have to stop trying to make this about me and you.  It's just pathetic.  I don't even want to appear mean to you, but you just keep coming for it. 

[bulbasaur]

Who said I was talking about you?   

You shared a story.  I shared a story.  You shared your perspective.  I shared my perspective.  It just so happens to be that only you and I are sharing.  Had Jane and John shared, then it'll be us versus you and I.    Don't read too much into a situation.

[Xyooj96]

put part of the defence budget into universal healthcare, and still have lots left over

universal healthcare difficult in America because every doctor wants to get pay the maximum they can, that's capitalistic philosophy.

for universal healthcare to work in America, certain communism philosophy needs to be adopted

[Believe_N_Me]

without reading every post of this thread, it's common sense that universal healthcare works fine. it's the American mentality of capitalism that make it not to work.

if everyone has the same basic, and anyone that wants the extra pays for those extra then everyone will be happy.

That won't fly among Americans, especially liberals. For example, what if one doctor costs more but also happens to be the better doctor - whatever that may mean. This means only those who can afford her will enjoy her brand of service. Liberals feel that they are entitled to the same kind of service just as much as those who are paying for it, and since they can't pay for it others should pick up the costs.

It isn't just a capitalistic mentality that is poisoning America, it's the entitled mentality of the Democrat party and their voters that will be the death of America.

After all, how many people on public assistance do you know that have actually changed the way they manage their lives? Many of them do not view their situation as temporary. For them, it is simply a way of living. A black woman in the projects is not telling herself to hold out on sex and do better for herself first. She is not waiting to marry the right man before having his baby. It is inevitable that she will repeat all her mother's same mistakes because to her, these are not mistakes but a social norm - have babies at a young age and receive a government check. Very few blacks who are born and raised in this type of environment actually break the cycle of poverty. 

In order for a whole community to break the cycle, it takes a lot of funds and resources from the government. These aren't people who will wake themselves up and go to a job. They need rehabilitation, childcare, and transportation services. Most normal people find a way to manage these things themselves, BUT NOT these people. They don't feel motivated to do any of these things by themselves and are completely dependent on the government to provide it for them. The government has become the new face of the plantation owner.

[Believe_N_Me]

You make good and valid points.  I would add the following:
1) Lazy people need to start working and being a contributing member of society even if it's cutting the grass at the school yard.  What society allows entitlement like we have for generations?  We need to teach people how to fish or let them starve.
2) Citizens needs to stop expecting an annual rate of growth of 7% plus for their retirement investment.  The economy is growing at an annual growth rate of 1-2%.  The delta between the two are too much and this causes investment firm we give our retirement investment to to pressure American CEO who then put us out of a job.  This is called a bad metrics that drives the wrong behaviors - selfishness.
3) We as citizens need to accept the reality that the boomers lied to us about retirement.  It is an illusion and only possible to those who are lucky enough.  From the day you are born, you are born to toil this earth until the earth you return to.  This is how the prior generations lived.  Your retirement is your children so teach them the right family values and you'll be fine...except America has been throwing away the family value system for the past 30 years that built this great nation...  Sad but true.

I agree we need to adopt some philosophy of communist such as in China, the biggest commie nation, if you don't work, you don't eat, and you starve.  Starvation is a powerful human mechanism that forces able body (healthy) people to start working.

Over the years Americans have become less and less motivated to better themselves, particularly those who have become completely dependent on social programs. This group truly believes that in order to achieve anything they need the help of the government. I have firsthand experience with a predominantly black community and that was always the mentality. For example, while other under privileged minority groups worked out the kinks themselves, the black community was always lagging behind. They couldn't retain a job because they didn't have reliable transportation or childcare. How many of us are given reliable transportation and childcare if we don't arrange it ourselves? My parents saved to buy a car. They also went out of their way to schedule work hours in order to make childcare work. Let's just say I have years of experience and knowledge with inner city communities. Blacks can't break the cycle because they're not motivated enough since they've been milking the cow for free for far too long. They literally wait for the government to find a solution and provide the services and this is something you will hear time and time again when talking with them. It is always, "what can the government do to help the black community?" Their children were never ready to learn because they hadn't eaten. They can't get themselves to school on time because there isn't an alarm clock anywhere in the house. They can't focus on school unless there is a support group available to listen to their problems at home. Parents don't know how to get involved with the school and need coordinators to conduct workshops. On and on and on....city raised taxes to put towards the school district, which mainly went to pay the salaries of administration overseeing these programs rather than the children's academics. Another great example of wasted tax dollars on blacks: the school district hosting 2 day, 1 night workshops at the Radisson Hotel in order to motivate black parents to get more involved in their children's education. All expenses paid, including three meals a day (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) and to top it off, parents received a stipend to bring their children. They received money to bring their children! The district knew there would be no shows because black parents would say they can't find childcare so the district was willing to pay them for every child they brought. 

I remember a time when I grew up in a predominantly white city. A liberal was someone who smoked a lot of weed, listened to reggae and folk music, and wore Birkenstocks with tie-dyed t-shirts. 

This is why I question that black Chicago girl who was accepted into 26 colleges. Admission is expensive so I wonder how she paid for all 26 applications and if it was even worth it at $50-100 a piece. Perhaps she used her scholarship money? All I know is that the families of the school district I'm speaking about, no junior or senior had to pay to take the ACT. That was unheard of when I took mine.

[Xyooj96]

... if you don't work, you don't eat, and you starve.  Starvation is a powerful human mechanism that forces able body (healthy) people to start working.

that's what needs to happen in America, too many have become the masters and expected to fed by others

food stamps didn't work, electronic payments didn't work....perhap s just have food banks where people on welfare can just go get foods but no alcohols and other things which are bad for their lives. when they start working, they can chase their American dream

three things people need are food, shelter, and cloth. provide the first just so we don't have so many graves