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Author Topic: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate  (Read 9163 times)

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bulbasaur

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Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« on: September 09, 2014, 08:59:00 AM »
So we know of the famous moon experiment with the hammer and the feather.  However, how can a person prove the same thing without going to the moon? 



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minorcharacter

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 09:09:23 AM »
Vacuum the air out of a tube and drop a feather and a sinker in there.   :D
Ah good ol' physics class.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 07:06:15 PM »
I was thinking more about theory, but that'll work too. 

Vacuum the air out of a tube and drop a feather and a sinker in there.   :D
Ah good ol' physics class.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 11:37:47 PM »
Let's try the same thing, minus a vacuum.  Pre-vacuum technology. 



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bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 12:00:31 PM »
What you are describing is actually a variation of the Galileo's Leaning Tower of Pisa Experiment, and we all know how you feel about Galileo  :2funny:

Your experiment is actually not a good experiment because there would be too many other factors that would ruin the results.  At best, it would just be a decent eyeball test.   

Now it's correction time....

1.  The derivative of speed is not velocity.  The derivative of position(displacement) is velocity.  The first derivative of velocity is acceleration. 

2.  You wrote, "Once you have computed (approximated) velocity, you’ve effectively determine gravity..."  Actually, no.  I'd explain it to you, but since you don't understand derivatives, it would be pointless. 

NOTE: This is high school stuff.   :2funny:

Suppose you knew nothing about gravity, aerodynamics, friction and blah blah blah.  Take 10 iron balls of varying weights: 10KG, 20KG, etc… 100KG.  Climb up the tallest building in your village (the church).  Suppose this church is 10m high thus your distance = 10m.  Now take these iron balls of varying weight and drop it from 10m.  Did the heavy one fall faster than the lighter one?  If no, then the final speed = distance/time.  So we can at see objectively through measured data they have the same speed.  Now suppose, you graphed this at varying heights 10, 15m, 20m, etc..., you’ll notice that the speed is not constant and the higher you go the faster the speed is.  Thus, the derative (rate of change) of speed is velocity.  Once you have computed (approximated) velocity, you’ve effectively determine gravity, and know things fall at the sate rate (e.g. rate of change).

NOTE: This is high school stuff. 




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bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 04:45:01 PM »
Your problem is not with me.  Your problem is with the facts. 

You wrote,  "Thus, the derative (rate of change) of speed is velocity."  Is this true?  Yes or No.  Don't try to change the subject.  Don't try to make this a You vs. Me thing.  If your facts are wrong, what makes you believe your analysis is correct? 

Raise your hand if you have ever taken calculus.   :2funny:

NOTE: This is high school stuff. 

*yawns* scalar vs. vector.

Raise your hand if you've taken vector and/or linear algebra...if not, why talk about what you don't fully understand like teachers are overpaid....i mean underpaid.





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bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 07:31:15 PM »
OMG, you need to go back to the classroom. 

1.  You wrote, "Thus, the derative (rate of change) of speed is velocity."  Is this true?  Yes or No?

2.  Acceleration is the derivative of velocity, not speed.   :2funny:

3.  Speed is the magnitude of velocity.  It appears you don't know the difference.  Speed is a scalar quantity, and velocity is a vector quantity.  People use these terms as synonyms in the everyday world, but it's clear we are talking about physics. 

NOTE: This is high school stuff.   :2funny:

The fact is if you take the derivative of speed, it becomes acceleration.  Why is that the case?  Because both speed and velocity are measured in Distance/Time.  What are their difference?  Speed has no vector, and velocity does.  When you are given a problem, you make an assumption with and such can be directional.  When you drop the ball down from a height, and get speed, it too is velocity because why?  The direction is ALWAYS toward the center of the earth.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 07:43:39 PM »
 You wrote, "Thus, the derative (rate of change) of speed is velocity."  Is this true?  Yes or No? 

Just answer the question.   :2funny:

Here we go again saying the same shit 10 different ways.   :idiot2:

Drop the ball from a height...speed is velocity because there's only one direction.




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Offline nightrider

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 12:51:23 AM »
Using two identical items in shape & dimension but with different weights and drop them at the same time both would hit the ground at the same time. Folks back in Newtonian era use similar methods to proof that things fall at the same constant rate. In a non vacuum environment surface areas can influence the fall rate.



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Offline Hung_Low

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2016, 10:14:41 PM »
So we know of the famous moon experiment with the hammer and the feather.  However, how can a person prove the same thing without going to the moon?

Using the concept of Force and Mass in the specific type of motion known as free-fall; Free-fall is the motion of objects that move under the sole influence of gravity; free-falling objects do not encounter air resistance.
Acceleration of an object is directly proportional to the Force and inversely proportional to the Mass. Increasing force tends to increase acceleration while increasing mass tends to decrease acceleration. Thus, the greater force on more massive objects is offset by the inverse influence of greater mass. Subsequently, all objects free fall at the same rate of acceleration, regardless of their mass.



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bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2016, 10:53:57 PM »
Science is the devil!   :2funny: :2funny:

But seriously, you didn't really demonstrate it.  We didn't really have to go to the Moon to know what would happen when a hammer and feather were dropped simultaneously .  This topic is more about demonstration.  We all know the math works out.  Similarly, we know a^2 + b^2 = c^2.  We can prove it mathematically, but we can also physically demonstrate it by drawing it. 

Other people's reply were more practical.  Either create a vacuum (which isn't as impressive if you want to demonstrate it anywhere) or simply find objects of the same shape but different weights (which might be difficult). 

I am still waiting to see if anyone found a more practical demonstration.  This is an old thread now.  Maybe I should just spill the beans...

Using the concept of Force and Mass in the specific type of motion known as free-fall; Free-fall is the motion of objects that move under the sole influence of gravity; free-falling objects do not encounter air resistance.
Acceleration of an object is directly proportional to the Force and inversely proportional to the Mass. Increasing force tends to increase acceleration while increasing mass tends to decrease acceleration. Thus, the greater force on more massive objects is offset by the inverse influence of greater mass. Subsequently, all objects free fall at the same rate of acceleration, regardless of their mass.


« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 10:57:14 PM by bulbasaur »

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Offline Reporter

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 04:07:17 PM »
You guys are aware that gravity is what is pushing objects towards Earth from a certain distance above ground, right?

Gravity pushes things at the rate of about 10 meters per second square. (I can't write that in math form on this forum somehow. But you know what I mean.)

Like things that travel horizontally, they are slowed by friction. Gas or air is the friction against things that fall vertically from above, unless an object falls onto a solid somewhere or unless on rainy days.

There are three types of objects; they are also termed matters: solids, liquids, and gases.

A feather and a hammer are both solids. They would fall at the same rate regardless of size.



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Offline nightrider

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2016, 11:37:36 PM »
10m/s^2... Tell me a place on Earth that has that kind of acceleration. Difference of elevations affect the strengths of gravity which also affects the passage of time. Staying young would require signification gravitational force to influence time. That probably explains why folks whom lives in higher elevations aged much quicker than someone who is 100ft above sea level.



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Offline thePoster

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2016, 11:03:03 PM »
If they weigh the same they will fall at the same speed.  As far as rate...everyth ing falls at the same rate.

So it's really just dependent on how you word it.



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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

bulbasaur

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Re: Prove It! Things Fall at the Same Rate
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2016, 12:43:46 AM »
Error.

If they weigh the same they will fall at the same speed.  As far as rate...everyth ing falls at the same rate.

So it's really just dependent on how you word it.



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