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Author Topic: Before I Die...  (Read 8909 times)

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NeejYagHawj

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Before I Die...
« on: September 17, 2015, 10:08:23 AM »
to younger generation,

i am old and dying.  ask me anything regarding hmong religion and cultural practices (and maybe even the controversial hmong religion) when you have the chance--and i will give you answers.  I will be in here for as long as i can.

Do not be offended by the topic...i read these posts...and my god...you guys need help...ALOT! 


« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 10:17:43 AM by NeejYagHawj »

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Dark Angel

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 11:04:59 AM »
Why are you dying?



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NeejYagHawj

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 11:12:24 AM »
old age...

any questions regarding what i asked?



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Offline YeejKoob13

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 12:17:33 PM »
Yag, or yaweh (I'm assuming you're him because I remember the writing style), and if so, I'm glad to see you again.

Can you list and explain the various spirits which protect your house or give blessing/fortune to you, such as the Xwmkab? Be thorough, please.



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Offline YeejKoob13

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 12:24:34 PM »
Hais txog lub npe rau Hmoob tus God,,, What is his proper name?

TswvNtuj, YawmSaub, Fuabtais Ntuj, others,, are they all one and the same? If not, explain the differences between them and the hierarchy.

I would like to compare the definition(s) with some elders who I speak to. I just want to clarify, and nothing more than that, for now.



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NeejYagHawj

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 12:50:50 PM »
yeej koob,

good question....

1.  protective spirits of the house

   dab rooj txag, qhov cub, qhov txo, qhov rooj, ntuj dab (the main spirit pillar of the house), xwm kab, plag xua (each of them has a specific duty)

protective spirits from outside
    dead ancestors (such as mother/father), kiab yeeb (guan yin, nkawm niam txiv, dab niam txiv xa, etc), xeeb tebchaws (also included are dead ancestors), tswv ntuj, yawm zaj, yawm xob, nkauj yaj yuam, nraug yaj yig, nkauj hnub nraug hli (sab vaj tim tswv kab 4ceg kaum ntuj)

keep in mind, per belief, these entities could also harm you if you do not respect them.

as for the 2nd question.  tswv ntuj, tswv theeb, yawmsaub etc...are all "titles."  they are not names.  tswv ntuj was invented by mong in reference to the lord of everything (i have a feeling it was from christianity).  tswv theeb was a copied term borrowed from christiniaty by the chinese in early 1900s; and since hmong and chinese are so close, mong began using the term "tswv theeb" as a name too. 

yawmsaub, in my opinion, was also a borrowed term from missionaries back in 1750, after the first war of the last 3 wars between mong/chinese.  at that time, missionaries were very eagered to help out the hmong after they got crushed.  although samule pollock had the most influence on the hmong (and he helped created the tabtiab alphabets if i am not mistaken), there were earlier missionaries who, i'm sure, had some influences on the hmong "religious" system since that time.

if you think about it, hmong (1750) just lost the war.  it was a this time that mong began their first wave toward vietnam.  those who remained went through very hard time--ntuj kawg xubzeb teb kawg xub ntoo..NTUJ TEB TAAG QUAS NCUA...hince lug txaj is created at that time.  anyway, missionaries took advantage of this and influenced the mong--promising a savior (christ).  out txiv xaiv, nkauj, qeej, etc were all "bettered" during this time too. 

"ntxwj nyoog, txiv tuj iab/daw" is purely a bible influence, used during nkauj and txiv xaiv.  "dej kub hlab, dej kub npau" is clearly a qeej song influenced by the bible and missionaries.

going back to yawmsaub (a title), i believe it is also a bible versioin from "yaweh, yashaw, yeshua, yahovah, etc."  the true name of jeuss is "yeshua," which is very similar to yawmsaub.

the only--seem to be--god that mong has is Niam laj sab, txiv sab sua (a copy by the ultimate chinese god...SHANGDI).  some hmong call it saab tim or laajsabtim.  but since it is after a chinese god, some call it txiv saab sua too.  note:  these names only exist in old matriamonial songs and qhuab ke.

more later




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Offline VillainousHero

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 01:26:50 PM »
Awesome. Please continue.

So another topic of controversy: white Hmong - why they call Mong, green Hmong.  Mong then call themselves Mong leeg.  We hear lots of versions and takes on it and lots of literary takes on it as well. 



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The real villain is looking at you.  The last hero was just not true.  If everything works out in the end.  It's because all things make amends.

NeejYagHawj

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2015, 02:31:45 PM »
Regarding the identication of a mong....

1.  last name
2.  clothing
3.  dialects
4.  location

dont confuse these 4 things when we say "he is moob leeg" or "nwg yog moob dlawb"  or he is a vang/her/thao, etc.

1.  we all know what last names are.  actually, our last names are not really our clan names at all.  the word xeem is actually 'xeev" or "province."  this method of separating the mong was very efficient.  when chinese divided the mong into groups...we were dispersed into "provinces" or "xeev" in hmong.  each province is govern by a governor name "ho, yang, lee, etc".  over time, we adopted these governor as our last name...by saying "kuv yog moob yaj"...but the actual meaning is "i am from the province of yang".  example...i am was from the "xeev" of "Lee"..then i am hmong Lee.

the true mong clan names are "her = dluag, moua = zaag, thao = dlub, etc".  also, our word for "clan"  is "qhua".  i am moob hawj (meaning i am from the province of "HO", but "KUV YOG QHUA DLUAG"...or i am from clan dluag.  with this said--and the sad thing is--even if i am qhua dluag, and if were to live in the xeev Lee, then kuv yog moob lee lawm.  do you see the problem and why we are so confused now?  there were cases (i am sure) that two blood related brothers, one living in different xeev...so they eventually have different "xeem." 

2.  as for clothing...the re are moob dlub, moob dlawb...moob paj, moob xia, etc.  these terms refer to the color of clothing that mong wear.  do not confuse these terms with the "dialect" that people speak.  a moob dlawb (referring to the clothing) may use the "leeg (dialect....as we know it today)" all his/her life, and still be called moob dlawb (referring to clothing). 

3. location:  this is the confusing part.  keep in mind, mong were divided into groups by the chinese.  over time, chinese lable mong as "moob leeg, moob peg, moob sib, etc.."  in these cases, we are referring to locations.  peg = north, leeg (laaj) is south, and sib (xib) is west.

with this said, a moob dlawb (referring to clothing) can be called a moob sib just because he/she lives (or poob zoo) in the west with the moob sib.   a moob dlawb (referring to clothing) can live with moob leeg all his/her life, and speaks the dialect of those people, and still can be moob dlawb.

do you see how confusing this is?  this is why the elders are so lost in telling the truth.  here is an example.  moob leeg moved from china first into vietnam around 1750.  we all know that.  the elders agreed with this.  most elders would say that moob leeg refers to the "green" dialect, and that moob leeg went south first.  if this is the case, then how come my family reached moospheeb in 1850...and there were MOOB DLAWB THERE ALREADY?  the fact is, there were some moob dlawb (referring to both clothing and dialect) living in souther china at that time...and they moved south when they had the chance.  it does not mean these white mong family were moob leeg. 

4.  dialect.  this is where it gets really confusing.  because of separation enforced upon mong, we begin to talk differently.  if you really think about it, there is no such thing as "dialect" anymore.  the moog leeg of china speaks both white/leeg together.  the leeg of southern laos speaks differently from the leeg of northern laos.  some white who lives with the western group speaks both white and leeg together.  some moob leeg say 'moog kev" while other says "moog kiv"...some say nyaj and others say nyiaj, similar to the white dialects.  so it seems dialects depends on location, and not weahter you wear white, black, or blue clothing.

more later



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chidorix0x

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2015, 02:41:32 PM »
...  kekeke  ...   :2funny:

NeejYagHawj's rhetoric, at least shows he/she IS NOT a ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'idiotic HA'Mung ignoramus regarding Hmong/Mong culture etc..

That said, his/her rhetoric laced in and peppered with missionary/Christianity anectdotes is  ::)/ :idiot2: -- as it is a known (scholarly FACT) that NOT ALL Hmong/Mong were directly and/or indirectly influenced, conned, and brainwashed by the White Slave at the beck and call of their Easter Bunny savior/messiah to know, create, and have all those titles, names, and dignitaries in Hmong culture, belief, and customs/ceremonial practices ...  KEKEKE  ...   >:D  (If that were true, Ntxwj Nyoog would have been called "Dev-Vaum"  ...   ::)  And Nkauj Iab Nraug Oo would have been called "As-dees & Iv-vam"  ...  kekeke  ...   :idiot2:)

VillainousHero,

Mong Leeg, in the Hmong/Mong nomenclature (or grouping/subgroup), NEVER EXISTED!  It was a clever diversion, segregation, and/or SHAMEFUL renouncement of their -- the Green Hmong/Mong cannibalistic inheritance, ancestry, past, and/or origin.  Mong Leeg by all account came into being (name that is) in SEAsia during Hmong/Mong's plight out of China.  Mong Leeg IS IN FACT (technically and historically) Green Hmong/Mong, period.  (Basically it is like a "Black" person who refuses to be called a "niGGa"  ...  KEKEKE  ...   :2funny:)



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chidorix0x

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2015, 02:54:35 PM »
...  kekeke  ...   :2funny:

NeejYagHawj  <---  clearly a Moob Leeg (bet he/she claims NO alignment with Green Hmong whatsoever), kekeke, with its Leeg superlatives  ...  KEKEKE ...   ::)/ :idiot2:

Whatever this HA'Mung Leeg is spewing can easily be amended with a little nonchalant research -- academically and within/throughout the Hmong/Mong community worldwide  ...  kekeke  ...   O0

***  Some of you, like you NeejYagHawj, really have no "shame" in posturing what you think, or believe is definitive Hmong/Mong scholarships:  facts, history, origin, truths, beliefs etc.  ...   ::)/ :idiot2:  Whatever you have spewed CAN EASILY be reprised, rectified, and DISPROVED with sound research, but leave it to ha'ignorant ha'gullible ha'idiotic HA'Mung (here and where ever) to grovel at your feet as if you were preaching the Holy Gospel to the choir  ...  KEKEKE  ...   :knuppel2:.)



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Offline YeejKoob13

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2015, 03:10:57 PM »
1.  protective spirits of the house

   dab rooj txag, qhov cub, qhov txo, qhov rooj, ntuj dab (the main spirit pillar of the house), xwm kab, plag xua (each of them has a specific duty)

protective spirits from outside
    dead ancestors (such as mother/father), kiab yeeb (guan yin, nkawm niam txiv, dab niam txiv xa, etc), xeeb tebchaws (also included are dead ancestors), tswv ntuj, yawm zaj, yawm xob, nkauj yaj yuam, nraug yaj yig, nkauj hnub nraug hli (sab vaj tim tswv kab 4ceg kaum ntuj)

Yag, thanks. Please continue when you have time.

Can you elaborate on these specific spirits' roles or tasks? For instance, what exactly does a dab rooj txag do for you, etc?



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Offline YeejKoob13

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2015, 03:23:08 PM »
...  kekeke  ...   :2funny:

NeejYagHawj  <---  clearly a Moob Leeg (bet he/she claims NO alignment with Green Hmong whatsoever), kekeke, with its Leeg superlatives  ...  KEKEKE ...   ::)/ :idiot2:

Whatever this HA'Mung Leeg is spewing can easily be amended with a little nonchalant research -- academically and within/throughout the Hmong/Mong community worldwide  ...  kekeke  ...   O0

***  Some of you, like you NeejYagHawj, really have no "shame" in posturing what you think, or believe is definitive Hmong/Mong scholarships:  facts, history, origin, truths, beliefs etc.  ...   ::)/ :idiot2:  Whatever you have spewed CAN EASILY be reprised, rectified, and DISPROVED with sound research, but leave it to ha'ignorant ha'gullible ha'idiotic HA'Mung (here and where ever) to grovel at your feet as if you were preaching the Holy Gospel to the choir  ...  KEKEKE  ...   :knuppel2:.)

ChidoriX0X,

Can you please read over the list of the protective spirits Yag posted and see if you agree or disagree on the accuracy? If agree, then just leave it. If not, then elaborate. Or if there are any missing then name them.

And please let's just stay focus in this thread. Leave the H'mung comments for later. No insult intended towards you here. I just want us not to get distracted for the time being, that's all.



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FetishDream

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2015, 03:26:08 PM »
Remember to cite sources otherwise, I'm not buying your book.   :2funny:



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NeejYagHawj

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2015, 03:47:08 PM »
no one is selling books...becaus e there is no books to be sold.  these things are from stories of the elders...and from personal observatoin... not from scholars who actually do not know what they are talking about.  it is sad that if the first author is wrong, then whoever cites the first author will also be wrong.

what i talk about are basic knowledge of mong (not from mistakes of assumptions)...do you know remember i said "oh my god...you need help" on my first thread?



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FetishDream

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Re: Before I Die...
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2015, 03:48:54 PM »
no one is selling books...becaus e there is no books to be sold.  these things are from stories of the elders...and from personal observatoin... not from scholars who actually do not know what they are talking about.  it is sad that if the first author is wrong, then whoever cites the first author will also be wrong.

what i talk about are basic knowledge of mong (not from mistakes of assumptions)...do you know remember i said "oh my god...you need help" on my first thread?

continue to tell or sell your story at will. 

happy are those who take your stories and making it their mantra.   :2funny:



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