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Author Topic: What is Hmoob Swv?  (Read 9812 times)

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SVanTha

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2016, 07:45:29 PM »
I took a Hmong history class in Fresno and I was taught that the Great Walls of China was to push the Hmong AND the Mongols out of their nation. It so happens that I spoke with a Chinese friend who agrees that by according to history, the Mongols really liked us since we are brave fighters. However, from another story by him as well, he said that after the Chinese were defeated, racial slurs starts to go around the entire ethnic group. There are only five groups to which I don't know the rest of the entire section of the five except for the Hmong. We are counted as 3.

1.  the great wall of china was not built to "push the (hmong) and the mongols out of china".  the great wall of china was built to keep the altaic (mongols) and tungusic (manchus) people from entering china.

2.  "It so happens that I spoke with a Chinese friend who agrees that by according to history, the Mongols really liked us since we are brave fighters. However, from another story by him as well, he said that after the Chinese were defeated, racial slurs starts to go around the entire ethnic group. There are only five groups to which I don't know the rest of the entire section of the five except for the Hmong. We are counted as 3."  -please just stop.  why do hmong people resort to such nonsense for "proof"?  why do you settle for hearsay and myths and legends as your "proof" and not search for definitive facts?

3.  there's no record of hmong people in north china at the time of the mongols.  what record there is, have the hmong people in south china.  i've already shared those resources in the linguistic history of hmong and the written history of the Ming dynasty that records hmong in southern china.

4.  if hmong people were north, hanging out with the altaics (mongols) and tungusics (manchus), it would be reflected in our language.  here's another resource for you, a database of hmong words and origins:  http://wold.clld.org/vocabulary/25
you will not find a single word from altaic and tungusic languages.  you will find words from chinese, tibeto-burmese, austronesian, mon-khmer (austro-asiatic) and thai/lao (tai-kadai)...reflecting accurately the hmong migration/diaspora.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusic_languages



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SVanTha

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2016, 08:13:05 PM »
I took a Hmong history class in Fresno and I was taught that the Great Walls of China was to push the Hmong AND the Mongols out of their nation. It so happens that I spoke with a Chinese friend who agrees that by according to history, the Mongols really liked us since we are brave fighters. However, from another story by him as well, he said that after the Chinese were defeated, racial slurs starts to go around the entire ethnic group. There are only five groups to which I don't know the rest of the entire section of the five except for the Hmong. We are counted as 3.

it just struck me where you got the whole idea of the "5 groups of people in china" from.  it revolves around the chinese flag:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_China



it was erroneously circulated that the 5 stars on the flag of china represented the so-called 5 main ethnics of china:  the han chinese, the mongols, the manchus, the tibetans and the hui's.  in reality, the designer of the flag of china meant for the stars to represent the 5 classes of china:  the communist leadership, the working class, the peasantry, the urban petite bourgeoisie and the national bourgeoisie.

the 5 races of china concept goes back to pre-communist revolutionarie s revolving around the flag of the republic of china shown below.  sorry to burst your bubble, hmong people were not among the 5 races of china:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Races_Under_One_Union




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SVanTha

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2016, 06:49:34 PM »
1. Mongols have recruited other Chinese to betray their own Kingdom
2. Hmong might have been defeated BY the Mongols
3. Mongol nation grew during the Khan's reign.
4. Hmong people in Shandong became warriors for the Khan
5. At least we were respected by him, even though Khan was a huge ****...

Your number 3 and 4 are true; yet, you're missing one thing: Khan have stolen tribes in China to go to war against China itself. Hmong hated the Mongols, but they had no choice. What do you prefer; genocide?

1.  which has nothing to do with why the great wall of china was built.  it was built to keep people from coming into china, not to drive people out of china as you claim.
2.  every ethnic in china was defeated by the mongols, including hmong.  one of the main mongol headquaters was in Yunnan.  it controlled all the border territories and ethnics, including hmong people.
3.  don't know what your point is here.
4.  please show reference and proof that hmong people were in Shandong during Kublai Khan's reign and that Kublai Khan had a hmong army.
5.  please show reference and proof that Kublai Khan "respected" or made any special note of hmong people.



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SVanTha

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2016, 06:59:45 PM »
That part, I didn't know; however, we are talking about ancient history. What if the 5 ethnics weren't these people back then? You're talking in the times before the communist regime. As to rebuttal your claims, modern history is different from the times of ancient history of China.

if you're serious about learning hmong history, then i suggest you improve your reading and comprehension skills.  the 5 ethnic concept was not a part of "ancient" chinese history.  it had it's beginnings in the Sui dynasty and has been a facet of chinese politics since.  the 5 ethnic flag that was shown and used was created in 1911 when the Republic of China was founded.  it's the very first sentence in the wiki...really don't understand how that point can be missed.



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Offline dogmai

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2016, 10:37:23 PM »
TAL,

You keep bringing up the relationship between the hmong, mongols and khan. For clarity, which khan are you talking about?



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Offline thePoster

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2016, 11:13:16 PM »
Dang everytime I read something about hmong history on here or anywhere else I feel like it's just people making things up unless it's history in the past 100 years



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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

Offline thePoster

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2016, 11:14:08 PM »
I really wish there was a way to truthfully trace us hmong people through history.




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I went through all 15k posts and those 2 quotes I found were the only ones so I guess that would make it "everytime".  Feel free to go through all 15k posts and verify by quoting them all.  You need to quote them all to verifying prove "everytime".   Please verify that Im wrong.

Offline dogmai

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Re: What is Hmoob Swv?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2016, 11:45:39 PM »
I really wish there was a way to truthfully trace us hmong people through history.

There is a way, although the result won't be 100% accurate. The method is to do research, gathering facts from many different and reliable sources. Don't be bias.

Myths should not be use as evidence. Although it can be use as a sense of direction, it should be researched to determine which part of the myth, if any, were historical facts or exaggerated and/or made up entirely.



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