Hmong burial and Chinese duckED UP MOVE!

[dogmai]

Why is it so hard for you to latch on to what I am saying?

Because you keep mixing politics and religion. You say one thing, but do the opposite.

Muslim, I will not allow them to practice unless they allow ours. Sudan is one of them. I won't share our ideas and politics with them is because of the way they are. Therefore, why? It's like allowing North Korea's religion BULLSHIT to come into your country, but they won't allow yours to their country. That's just wrong and racist!

Yes, it's wrong to ban people in a country simply because of their religious background. And that's exactly what you are doing. Two wrongs don't make a right.

There you again, mixing religion with a nation's policy. This is what you can't seem to grasp. Your North Korea analogy is nothing like your argument, therefore it's moot.

 I'm still waiting on your evidence that all Muslims don't allow other religions in their country. Saudi Arabia and Sudan are two countries, they do not account for all Muslims. Indonesia has the largest Islamic population, and look at how many other religions that are practice in it.

  I won't share our ideas and politics with them is because of the way they are.

What are you talking about? Muslims shared the kalam cosmological argument "idea" with other theists.

[dogmai]

On bold, where did I say I will ban the people. I only will ban the religion, not the people. The people are fine as long I don't see a mosque. If they want to built a mosque, then I want to build our multi-religion on their nation. Their real nationality are Arabic, not Muslim. Muslim is an identity to their religion. If you allow terrorist to intervene our people, they will assimilate Hmong Muslim terrorist by using OUR people to kill us. Have you not read what had happened in Sichuan during the San Miao States? I cannot let history repeat itself. Therefore, I forbid the religion until I see a fair common ground. The muslim can come and visit; however, our spies will watch them 24/7. I can't trust them. They can live in our country as a citizen until the next 3 generation if they don't do anything funny. Yes, I will spy them for the next 3 generation until I see their trustworthy. They will not have a mosque until they let us build our church in their country. Now do you get it?

You better check yourself first before you try  to explain what Muslims are. Don't try and make it look like I am the one that doesn't know what Muslim is.  No need to explain it to me,  i know what it is.  You were the one using the term  "Muslims" incorrectly. You missed used that word so many times, too much to quote you right now.

[dogmai]

But they practice polygamy. I forbid polygamy and I will hunt them down, like some persecutors who hunts down immoral people. If Hmong hates other Hmong people that forbids polygamy, they will be the first one to die. No polygamy!

That's why you make government  laws banning polygamy.  Not all Muslims practice polygamy. Whether they break religious laws, is up to them, as long as they are not breaking the government laws. It's the government laws that matters when it comes to the laws of a nation.

I don't want this thread to turn into a religious debate but, if going by your way, Christianity should also be outlawed. Christianity practice slavery, cruel and unusual punishment just to name a few.  I'm pretty sure other religions are similar. Why not outlaw all religions. If you are for freedom of religion or lack of, then you cannot cherry pick parts from a religion just so you can outlaw that particular religion, but at the same time leave out certain things from another religion just to make it allowable in the country.  To me,  freedom of religion or lack of, applies to all religions. People should have the freedom to believe in whatever they want as long as they do not break the government laws.

Seperation of religion and state, concerning government laws, to me means, that religion stays out of government laws. And the government stays out of religious laws. An example of this would be the same sex marriage issue. A government official cannot refuse the "legal" marriage between a same sex couple simply because his/her religion forbids it. The government cannot force a religion's refusal of a "ceremonial/religious" marriage of a same sex couple.
 ex: the government cannot force a church to perform the ceremony of the marriage it is against that church's belief. This is because the marriage ceremony, whether performed or not, is not a legal marriage in accordance with government laws.

[dogmai]

Arabic is their ethnicity. Muslim is like saying, "Amish!" Amish isn't a race. It's a devotion towards to God.

As I said earlier, don't put it as if I don't know what Muslim is, I knew it from the get-go, apparently, you didn't.

The only religion that I will forbid will be muslim is because they don't do anything that is fair. If they don't want our religion in their country, then I will not allow theirs in my country. I will allow someone's religion to be in MY country if they allow ours. That is what I see fair of religion.

Dude, is it fair that they don't want our religion to be in their country? Let me ask you about what is fair. If you want something from me as a trade, what do you have? If you want something from me, but you won't let me have something of yours, is it wrong for Muslim not allowing us to put OUR shaman religion in their country? My friend, I will allow someone's religion to come into my country IF they allow our religion to be in theirs as well. Now that is fair. Is it not?

If I were you, go find their laws and checkout to what they think about other religion. Muslim is a theocracy country; yet, they don't allow any other religion to come in into THEIR country. It's what I called, "Muslim is being racist to other religion." That is why I forbid muslim's teaching until they open a door for us.

Why do you care about Islam? They are fuking racist; yet, you allow these racist cuunts to come in and barge their religion into my people? Have you not seen their crazy theocracy? I will not allow the teachings of Islam like how Japan does it to protect their country. If Islam will drop their racist religion, suicide bombings, and allow other religions to come in into their country, that's when I will allow Islam to flourish in my country. Let me ask you this, "Do you want any terrorist to do some crazy bombings?" France got their problem and look what just happen to them.

Again, no Muslim until we get our fair trade of religion.

http://listverse.com/2011/11/24/top-10-most-dangerous-countries-for-christians/

The non-muslim, we will dealt later. The real Muslim religion, here they are.


If they don't allow Christians to preach, then Shamanism will be the first to be called, "a witch/warlock." Then next is death.

Uh, no, I didn't agree that Christianity is forbidden in a Hmong country. I forbid religion in the politics. My argument early was politics, not the country. The country is LATER! Okay? I will allow Christianity in a Hmong country, but not in our politics. This is my argument. Why is it so hard for you to latch on to what I am saying? Country, yes. I allow all religion except for muslim. For politics, do you see that America is a Christian nation? I think Yeej thinks that America is a Christian nation when he hasn't study Poli-sci. I am sorry for Yeej that he lacks to understand the separation of Church and State. Muslim, I will not allow them to practice unless they allow ours. Sudan is one of them. I won't share our ideas and politics with them is because of the way they are. Therefore, why? It's like allowing North Korea's religion BULLSHIT to come into your country, but they won't allow yours to their country. That's just wrong and racist!

Like I said, look at what you wrote first before accusing me of not knowing what Muslim is.

[dogmai]

Apparently you still haven't grasp on to what I've been saying. Keep religion separate from politics and government. Nations have government laws to outlaw certain things. Those laws comes from the government of those individual countries and only effect those individual countries. Laws are made by the country's government for the country. To people outside of that particular country, the laws represent the country but not the citizens of that country. Whether the government officials believes in a certain religion or not, those laws do not represent the religion. It does not represent each and every individual from all over the world who so happen to practice the same religion. Just because a country has a law that outlaws every religion except Islam, it does not mean that those laws represent all Muslims from everywhere in the world.

So I'll say it again, Keep religion separate from government. Stop claiming that Muslims don't allow other religions in their country if you can come up with evidence that shows every Muslims in the planet thinks that way. Which by the way, I'm still waiting on those evidence from you.

[YeejKoob13]

But they practice polygamy. I forbid polygamy and I will hunt them down, like some persecutors who hunts down immoral people. If Hmong hates other Hmong people that forbids polygamy, they will be the first one to die. No polygamy!

Kevveem Vaj, the awb, you need to go back and read everything again. This time use your brain more and think it over before you start yapping away.  That's why I took off for a few days to let you get a second chance at it.

I'm really starting to think that you're not all there operating with a few missing marbles.

[dogmai]

I am still not going to allow Muslim to be in my nation. Just look what has happened to France. I would do what Japan does by not allowing any synagogues in our country. To hell with those terrorists. I am not going to have another repetition in our history of our Hmong when we lost in Sichuan. Do you want us to get heavily influence by your own enemies? When America saw Japan raided Hawaii, what did they do? They arrest them all in order to keep any secrets from spilling. Therefore, the country can be a safer place.

You have not learn anything from history and you are doom to repeat history. The arrests made on American citizens of Japanese decent was one of the darkest hour of American history regarding civil liberty and cultural differences, and here you are embracing it. America during that time was heavily influence by their enemy.

Are you that scared of those terrorists that bombs building? You should not be too worry about those suicide bombers, they are of little threat compared to the enemy that is influencing you right now. Those are the enemy that is the most dangerous. They don't have to step one foot in your country but they can defeat you. Even though you don't realize it, but they are incfluencing you already.


Please explain to me the history of Sichuan as you see it.

[dogmai]

You need Japan to fight off the Chinese. I would rather not have the Chinese over me.

?

[lexicon]

You're going to hate this then. A movie about your Hero. Made by the Chinese 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cVe_t9TYdA

[dogmai]

Dude, we are living in the modern day. I know that America will never attack any Asian countries. Because if they see that, Vietnam and other smaller countries might see this as a threat. Plus, who will settle there people over across the sea? That's a lot of money, which totally explains why England cannot conquer her own rebellious daughter who seeks for independence.

If Hmong fight against the Chinese, I understand what casualty there will be. However, you need an ally who is interested in fighting against the Chinese. I know that America will not join is because they are ally to them by economic interest. Japan and Vietnam are the only country that are interested on taking on China. I don't mind if they attack them, as long I get a country of my own.

The thing about finding allies is that you have to provide something that they need. Just because they have a common enemy doesn't mean that they will automatically be your ally. It is like an investment. Just like in war, if there is nothing to gain from going to war or if the loss will be too great, then it is  not worth going to war. And let's not forget that an ally of yours must be willing to support your other ally, if not then they might remain neutral.

I don't know exactly about Japan's recent military restrictions but the last thing I read was that they can't invade another country.  If in a different country, at most they can only provide supplies to their allies.

[3 Years Time]

I'm trying hard to be creative, innovative and accept your line of thinking, but I can't seem to grasp how a countryless people (thus no autonomy) can continue to keep their identities for generations and millenniums to come when they don't have anything concrete to hold onto (such as country that specifically identifies them for the rest of the world to know, see, and accept), all the while their culture keeps on eroding away as assimilation forces encroach, and fast. Everywhere I look I just see more and more intermarriages and cultural extinction (like Christianity converting Hmong ppl or Hmong kids just losing the language and traditions)... With this trend and looking at it in the long run, like centuries from now, will there even be people who identify themselves as Hmong around then? Or will they just be Americans, Canadians, French, Chinese of Hmong descent, if that?,,, You also need a state to help protect and perpetuate the Hmong cultural identities, no? So when somebody comes up with a world changing invention the other ppl of the world can say yes that guy/gal from Hmongland, hence Hmong, did that.

With your examples up above, I'm thinking that if a Hmong person (living in America?) finds a cure for cancer or builds a ship to Mars and beyond, the history books will say "An American (since s/she is from America) by the name of so and so (and s/he probably a English/American first name as well) did so and so. The Hmong identity would probably be relegated as secondary only, if that.

To be creative in thinking and making the best of a bad situation is a consolation only, while having the country/state (and what it embodies) is the real prize, imo.

We can agree to disagree.  How long have the Hmong been without a country?  Over 1000 years and we're still Hmong.  According to our known history, 900 AD, or 223 BC.  None of these dates are official until we find concrete evidence showing that we had a self governing system back in 900 AD, or that the Chu kingdom was actually ours back in 223 BC.

Let's be realistic, where on earth do we plan to build a country?  What army are we using to take lands by force?  Who is our great orator who'll win a nation through diplomacy?  Are we starting a rebellion somewhere?  What chances do they have against the nation they plan to rebel against?

[nightrider]

 

We're still plotting to carve up China? Whether you can convince others or UN/ATM to back your plan, we're all going to be sour losers no matter where we live. We're always going to be exploited and used by others. We outta be focusing on educating ourselves & aiming for the stars instead of wasting precious time with crazy thoughts.

[nightrider]

Stop dreaming... To say that certain race likes Hmong it's like saying that White Americans loves Black Americans. War never changes... We only have to look at Syria, why must people die senselessly? Whether 4 mil or 100 mil, if you're not oppressed, marginalize, enslaved, and etc... It's unreasonable to revolt. You revolt senselessly, you deserve death and enslavement...

[nightrider]

People can call me whatever they think or conceived. Why do I want others to know about me when they clearly aren't  interest it. Just like this co-worker, he thinks I'm hmongolian.lol I'm totally fine with that. Hmong people are not special, why do other folks need to know?

[nightrider]

How can anyone dis you if they don't even know who you are? If you're Hmong you should know that there's nothing to be proud off. If you can't even understand or in agreement with that and still think you're Hmong than I rather choose to be to not associate with your Hmong Association. Because it's embarrassing.. .