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Author Topic: Demystifying Hmoob tsis hlub Hmoob thiaj tsis muaj tebchaws cliche part 2  (Read 4725 times)

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Offline Meestahh_Prince

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Some months ago I started this thread with the twisted statement that 'Hmoob tsis muaj tebchaws Hmoob thiaj tsis txawj sib yoog' and not the other way around 'Hmoob tsis muaj tebchaws vim Hmoob tsis txawj sib hlub' as prevalently believed and furthered duplicated to hindered the progressivenes s of Hmong people. Without stressing and cracking down the reasons behind the statement, it literally is true. Without tebchaws and nyob under luag qab rooj as minority, Hmong people are forced to scrape a living off the edge of the cliff gets left with the scrap jobs that kept them under the radar of poverty wherever they are...its poverty and the desperation of climbing out of it that drives them to engaged in illegal activities, businesses and scamming their own people and fight among themselves. Poverty and poorest of the poorest has always been among Hmong people and its the tools that foe has been successfully used against Hmong people to turn against their kind...simply offered them enough money or temporary fake official status to have them turn against their kind. Hence tsis muaj tebchaws kept Hmong people in poverty and affected nearly every aspect of the Hmong people e.g. identity crisis, persecution, racial discrimination encounter etc. Hmong people believed in the illogical cliche that Hmong fights over a single fish that's why they don't have a pond, on the contrary though the point of this thread is to shed some logical sense into the backward logic of Hmong people...every one has to eat, a single fish isn't enough to feed everyone and causes a hectic fight among themselves, give them their own pond to fish and they would cease to fight over one fish.



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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The Hmong do not have a country because their social system is not set up in a way that is conducive to having a statehood. In other words, we don't prefer our lives be dictated by a body of government be it a king, parliament, or congress, etc. We have a clan system.

In fact, groups that practice tribalism don't work very well when they are left to set up a government for themselves. Ever heard of Lao Family?  :2funny:  18 Xeem?

This is also why the Native Americans did not have what is considered a "country" by definition of The Montevideo Convention. There were many tribes who lived off the land in America, but there was no such country as America. Just a large continent with different tribal groups living on it.



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Offline Meestahh_Prince

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The Hmong do not have a country because their social system is not set up in a way that is conducive to having a statehood.Hmong people relied on tribal system cause they don't have a Country= No way to established laws. In other words, we don't prefer our lives be dictated by a body of government be it a king, parliament, or congress, etc. We have a clan system. You're right, when someone tries to convince Hmong that they deserved and can succeed in self-govern, they would come up with more BS excuse to set themselves back to crawling on their knees

In fact, groups that practice tribalism don't work very well when they are left to set up a government for themselves. Ever heard of Lao Family?  :2funny:  18 Xeem? Since when did Lao Family/18 Xeem ever gets a chance to establish their own government  ???? They're jsut minority organization trying to mimic political practice at its best and I'm not sure how you can't relate that to the 'fighting over one fish' analogous. Based on your expectancy, every race can't work well enough to manage their own government then sicne even America is divided into political squabble consisting of different parties and every where else.




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Offline Meestahh_Prince

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The Hmong do not have a country because their social system is not set up in a way that is conducive to having a statehood. In other words, we don't prefer our lives be dictated by a body of government be it a king, parliament, or congress, etc. We have a clan system.

In fact, groups that practice tribalism don't work very well when they are left to set up a government for themselves. Ever heard of Lao Family?  :2funny:  18 Xeem?

This is also why the Native Americans did not have what is considered a "country" by definition of The Montevideo Convention. There were many tribes who lived off the land in America, but there was no such country as America. Just a large continent with different tribal groups living on it.

In a nutshell, you're basically saying that Hmong people are primitive Monkey incapable of managing their own Country...that's the limiting belief/behavior that sets Hmong people back so far allowing other progressing people to easily exploit and stomped on Hmong people and keeps them in the roller coaster of poverty that gives rise to many many other aspect of being Hmong that aren't being discussed here.



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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They are not primitive monkey incapable of managing their own country. Their social system is not conducive to establishing their own country. Note the difference.

You want a country because you think it will win you respect from other groups, particularly those who do have a country.

If it was always the intended goal for the Hmong to have their own country then they would have set up a different social system, one that needs there to be a country. They did not rely on tribalism because they didn't have a country, they don't have a country because their practice is tribalism.



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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I also want to add that Hmong people who continually talk about wanting a Hmong country are basically advocating a racist form of nationalism.
 
Why?

Because they don't just want a country, they want a country that is practices their language, their culture, their religion, etc.

Who exactly will be living in this Hmong country anyway? Will blacks be allowed to live there and fully exercise their blackness? Will Hispanics? Anglo-saxons? Jews? Will non-Hmongs be eligible to hold political seats and infuse their cultural values?

The same Hmongs who accuse Trump of exciting white nationalism are the same minorities who want their own country so that they can be fully Hmong.

Wow, racist much?

Better yet, hypocritical much?

If you want your own country, go fight and die for one like every other group who has a country.

And when the going gets tough, stay and fight. Don't just flee like all them Middle East refugees.





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Darksyde

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I concur with Believe. Our Hmong system is based on what's good for my group and not necessarily the whole. Which is why we never really expanded our roots anything to that of a government.



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Offline lexicon

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We do have a penchant for nepotism.



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Offline dlabtsi_os

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Yes We Hmong can create a country in our lifetime. But not many people ask enough question. They are too busy dreaming rather doing it about it.

If you are serious about Hmong country: Here are some obvious question.

1. Will the Hmong country compatible with the Western Civilization?

2. Will the Hmong country have an effective foreign policy such as migration?

3. If Hmong establish a country how will the government run like? Corporate? Oligarch? Republic? Monarchy? Dictator?

4. If Hmong were to establish a country how will their national budget/debt runs? How much loan we need to borrow? How much job can we create so that it can pay back the debt we use to build the nation?

5. What kind of tax system Hmong country will create? What type of tax code will it be?

6. If Hmong create a tax system to collect people taxes: What kind of programs will Hmong use? No child left behind? Affirmative action? Common core? Plan parenthood.



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Offline Meestahh_Prince

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They are not primitive monkey incapable of managing their own country. Their social system is not conducive to establishing their own country. Note the difference.

You want a country because you think it will win you respect from other groups, particularly those who do have a country.

If it was always the intended goal for the Hmong to have their own country then they would have set up a different social system, one that needs there to be a country. They did not rely on tribalism because they didn't have a country, they don't have a country because their practice is tribalism.
Did you not said it yourself? It literally translates to the same meaning.

In fact, groups that practice tribalism don't work very well when they are left to set up a government for themselves. Ever heard of Lao Family?  :2funny:  18 Xeem?

I also want to add that Hmong people who continually talk about wanting a Hmong country are basically advocating a racist form of nationalism.
 
Why?

Because they don't just want a country, they want a country that is practices their language, their culture, their religion, etc.

Who exactly will be living in this Hmong country anyway? Will blacks be allowed to live there and fully exercise their blackness? Will Hispanics? Anglo-saxons? Jews? Will non-Hmongs be eligible to hold political seats and infuse their cultural values?

The same Hmongs who accuse Trump of exciting white nationalism are the same minorities who want their own country so that they can be fully Hmong.

Wow, racist much?

Better yet, hypocritical much?

If you want your own country, go fight and die for one like every other group who has a country.

And when the going gets tough, stay and fight. Don't just flee like all them Middle East refugees.

Says the person who supported a racist political prick inciting words and displaying bad manners to induce racial segregation/violence aka Mr. Trump but goes against any Hmong person she ACCUSES holding similar view. Wow, self-hater much?

Better yet, hypocritical much?  :idiot2:

There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep the language, cultures and maintaining ethnic identity in fact everyone does it and that's totally different from displaying bad manners to promote racial violence/hate.  And why would you even concern about what other race can or cannot practiced at this point? Do they return the same courtesy of concern back to you or your people? No. You can't even come up with a proper solutions to successfully solved the problem your own people are facing today leave it alone the pretentious act of considering others at this point...in fact if you're that considerate why didn't you encompass the same service back to your people? Instead your mock them as you previously did. Furthermore those people are far better off than you, they have a country for sanctuary and can easily seek political seat from there, what do you have? absolutely nowhere.

I recalled you brought up the issue of Chinese people thinking lowly of Hmong people at one point or in other words...braggi ng about being the victim of their intraracial discrimination, if you ever sought the answer to that issue then seek no further. Based on your collective statement to this topic alone, you or any Hmong person with that mindset of yours proven to yourself you're not worthy of respect hence you get the treatment you made yourself to be. While this thread agrees that a Tebchaws can set the platform for many possibilities to give Hmong people the same privilege as every other race/ethnic, a Tebchaws is not the focal point of focus in this thread, it merely points to it as the cause for many issues Hmong faces today or that trying to solve those issue are like beating around the bushes and not the cause itself.

No where in this thread does it promote the idea of warfare nor violence, as mentioned it merely points to the CAUSE of Hmong crises today. What's irking about the mentality of Hmong people though, was that they are against the idea of fighting for their people but would breathlessly pound their chest with pride fighting for the cause/interest of others.

You can believe whatever you want, this thread introduces a new perspective and doesn't demand you to agree to it.




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Offline Meestahh_Prince

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I concur with Believe. Our Hmong system is based on what's good for my group and not necessarily the whole. Which is why we never really expanded our roots anything to that of a government.

What comes first? the Egg or the Chicken? Based on that logic, the latter comes first which is wrong. Hmong never had a Country to establish laws and orders to regulate their people and living seclusively out in the mountain naturally forces them to relied on kins and clansmen system. Even if they wants to establish their own governments, where are they going to establish that? Exactly, no where can they do that without a having the land first.



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Offline Meestahh_Prince

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Yes We Hmong can create a country in our lifetime. But not many people ask enough question. They are too busy dreaming rather doing it about it.

If you are serious about Hmong country: Here are some obvious question.

1. Will the Hmong country compatible with the Western Civilization?

2. Will the Hmong country have an effective foreign policy such as migration?

3. If Hmong establish a country how will the government run like? Corporate? Oligarch? Republic? Monarchy? Dictator?

4. If Hmong were to establish a country how will their national budget/debt runs? How much loan we need to borrow? How much job can we create so that it can pay back the debt we use to build the nation?

5. What kind of tax system Hmong country will create? What type of tax code will it be?

6. If Hmong create a tax system to collect people taxes: What kind of programs will Hmong use? No child left behind? Affirmative action? Common core? Plan parenthood.

Hmong has been exposed to western civilizations and had Hmong person majored in nearly every field available htese past decades and if granted a land, they can't utilize the educations they accumulated to successfully fend for themselves and run their own Country then they've proven to them-self why they're being hated everywhere they lived.



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Offline Meestahh_Prince

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We do have a penchant for nepotism.

I guess that's pretty akin to only Hmong people right? Did you not noticed that every time a Hmong/Minority person and a white person clashed in court the white person almost always if not always win even when they're in wrong? ??? Talking about nepotism.   



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Did you not said it yourself? It literally translates to the same meaning.

Says the person who supported a racist political prick inciting words and displaying bad manners to induce racial segregation/violence aka Mr. Trump but goes against any Hmong person she ACCUSES holding similar view. Wow, self-hater much?

Better yet, hypocritical much?  :idiot2:

There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep the language, cultures and maintaining ethnic identity in fact everyone does it and that's totally different from displaying bad manners to promote racial violence/hate.  And why would you even concern about what other race can or cannot practiced at this point? Do they return the same courtesy of concern back to you or your people? No. You can't even come up with a proper solutions to successfully solved the problem your own people are facing today leave it alone the pretentious act of considering others at this point...in fact if you're that considerate why didn't you encompass the same service back to your people? Instead your mock them as you previously did. Furthermore those people are far better off than you, they have a country for sanctuary and can easily seek political seat from there, what do you have? absolutely nowhere.

I recalled you brought up the issue of Chinese people thinking lowly of Hmong people at one point or in other words...braggi ng about being the victim of their intraracial discrimination, if you ever sought the answer to that issue then seek no further. Based on your collective statement to this topic alone, you or any Hmong person with that mindset of yours proven to yourself you're not worthy of respect hence you get the treatment you made yourself to be. While this thread agrees that a Tebchaws can set the platform for many possibilities to give Hmong people the same privilege as every other race/ethnic, a Tebchaws is not the focal point of focus in this thread, it merely points to it as the cause for many issues Hmong faces today or that trying to solve those issue are like beating around the bushes and not the cause itself.

No where in this thread does it promote the idea of warfare nor violence, as mentioned it merely points to the CAUSE of Hmong crises today. What's irking about the mentality of Hmong people though, was that they are against the idea of fighting for their people but would breathlessly pound their chest with pride fighting for the cause/interest of others.

You can believe whatever you want, this thread introduces a new perspective and doesn't demand you to agree to it.

I suggest you get a real education about how great civilizations are erected before you jump on the Hmoobtebchaws bandwagon.

 :idiot2: :idiot2: :idiot2:

Furthermore, prove where and how Donald Trump is a racist? Just because the dude believes in enforcing a secured border - as do I - it doesn't make him a racist.

Newsflash, securing a border is "HOW TO BUILD A COUNTRY 101".

If you don't know that I'm not sure you deserve your own country.

 :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:



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Offline Believe_N_Me

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Race, culture, and class wars were already heated up under Obama. In fact, they got worse under Obama because the Democrats basically emboldened all the feeble-minded minorities and white SJWs with an evil false narrative.

People like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have been baiting the weak-minded - such as yourself - FOR YEARS.

You're just too stupid to realize it.

You are weak. They have been exploiting you for their benefit.



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