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Offline Kong Vang

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Housing Market Question
« on: April 26, 2021, 09:34:27 AM »
Here's a hypothetical situation:

You have a secondary home purchased in 2015 for 160k and the house is now worth about 350k and rising. You owe about 70k on your primary home and could possibly pay it off with the sale of your secondary home. Your secondary home is generating about 400.00 positive income a month.

Would you drop the rental and pay off your primary home and invest the difference?

or

Would you keep the rental and hope the market keep going or at least just level off? Knowing you'll get 400 a month?




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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2021, 10:05:40 AM »
Here's a hypothetical situation:

You have a secondary home purchased in 2015 for 160k and the house is now worth about 350k and rising. You owe about 70k on your primary home and could possibly pay it off with the sale of your secondary home. Your secondary home is generating about 400.00 positive income a month.

Would you drop the rental and pay off your primary home and invest the difference?

or

Would you keep the rental and hope the market keep going or at least just level off? Knowing you'll get 400 a month?

buy low, sell high

that's pretty much it
some of my rich meeka on the discord
say they just started to recovery than some from the 2007-2008 housing HIGH
almost 12+years later






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Offline lilly

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2021, 10:20:24 AM »
It depends on the person's long-term goals.  Hard to tell someone what to do because everyone's wants and needs are different.

These are my thoughts:

1. Sell the rental property because the market is really good right now to sell and your profit will be high.
2. Use proceeds to pay off primary residence.
3. Wait for market to crash to buy another property with the remaining profit (but it's a risk because there may not be a housing crash again, so, if you were to get another property, you'd pay at a premium price unlike the price you paid in 2015 at $160K for your rental).  Or, invest the remaining profit in the stock market or put into a safe interest-bearing fund/account (with at least a 3% return.)

Other thoughts:
- If you don't mind being a landlord, I'd keep the rental for long-term rent income.  Plus, hopefully the price of your rental will just keep going up, so you'll profit in the long-run either way, if you wait to sell when it's favorable in the future.  And you get that $400 monthly income flowing in still.


« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 10:22:39 AM by lilly »

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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2021, 10:29:48 AM »
worth a read if you got time....
basically robert kiyosaki say housing is not an investment
i always agree with him on this one

i mean i can barely know how to fix a light switch

p=pebhmong yo






Written by Robert Kiyosaki
Read time: 6 min
Last updated: September 24, 2019
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An uptick in adjustable-rate mortgages and being doomed to repeat the past

A cultural right of passage is buying your own home. Many people dream of the day when they get the keys to their own front door, imagining the joy that will come with the monumental achievement of taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars in personal debt.

Iím, of course, only being slightly tongue in cheek.
Is a house an asset?

The reality is that many people desire to buy a home because they think of it as a good investment. In terms of a financial statement, they think of their house as an asset. Because of this, in many cases, homeowners expect their house to be a big part of their retirement plan.

For instance, as Rob Carrick writes for the Canadian ďThe Globe and Mail,Ē ďIn a recent study commissioned by the Investor Office of the Ontario Securities Commission, retirement-related issues topped the list of financial concerns of Ontario residents who were 45 and older. Three-quarters of the 1,516 people in the survey own their own home. Within this group, 37 per cent said they are counting on increases in the value of their home to provide for their retirement.Ē

The sentiment Iím sure is the same here in the US, and in many places throughout the world.

The problem with this thinking is that many people simply do not know the difference between an asset and a liability.

My rich dad, my best friendís dad, taught me the simple definition of an asset and a liability. An asset puts money in your pocket. A liability takes money out. To illustrate this, he played the game of ďMonopolyĒ with us because he believed games often are the best teachers (which is also why I invented my financial education board game, CASHFLOW).

The simple premise of ďMonopolyĒ is that you want to buy as much property as possible, place rental houses on those properties (and eventually hotels), and collect rent to become richer than anyone else in the game. The formula was simple, four green houses and then a red hotel. It was a mini-picture of the power of velocity of money as you create more wealth from higher rent to buy bigger assets. It was also the perfect picture of how a house can be an assetóby putting money in your pocket as a rental property investment.
A house is often not an asset but instead a liability

The problem is the majority of people who buy houses do so as a primary residence, not as a rental property. So letís break down what that looks like financially.

On a given month for your personal residence, you need to pay for your mortgage, utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance, and possibly more. Sometimes these can turn out to be huge costs, for instance, if you need to replace a roof or your main plumbing line collapses.

All of these are things that take money out of your pocket. And as rich dad taught, a liability is something that takes money out of your pocket.

Many so-called experts will point to things like paying down principle, tax breaks from mortgage interest, and appreciation as reasons why the house is an asset, but paying down principle is simply saving and savers are losers, the tax breaks for your mortgage do not offset the costs that go out of your pocket each month, and if youíre banking on appreciation, youíre basically gambling, as homeowners in the Great Recession painfully discovered.

This is not to say you shouldnít buy a house. Iím simply trying to help you see that it is not an asset. Rather it is your home, and should be enjoyed for that, not as your ticket to a secure retirement. Look elsewhere for that. Truth sets people free, and the truth that your home is not an asset but instead a liability is one of the most important truths you can know.
ARMs Dealers

Unfortunately, most people simply donít understand this fundamental truth. This is why Iím not surprised to read that now that housing prices have gone up steadily since 2012. We have a short memory, and the Great Recession is all but erased from the consumer consciousness. This is evidenced by the fact that we started to see people take on riskier mortgages starting in 2017 and continued to do so in 2018 .

As CNBC reported in 2017, ďThe number of adjustable-rate mortgage originations jumped just over 40 percent from the first quarter of this year to the second, according to analysis by Inside Mortgage Finance.Ē

For those needing a refresher, an adjustable-rate mortgage, or ARM, allows potential homeowners to purchase more expensive houses by having lower interest rates than a traditional 30-year fixed-rate mortgage. ARMs are usually offered at one, three, or five years, meaning the interest rate will adjust to market rates after that period. In essence, itís betting that interest rates will be as low or lower down the roadÖand that youíll be in a better financial position to pay more, should the need arise.

You might not be surprised to hear that defaults on ARMs were a big part of why we faced the great recession from 2008 to 2011. And while there are new safeguards in place to ensure that ARMs arenít given to sub-prime borrowers, there is something of a frenzy that is building around buying homes in the US again. This, again, is because people inherently think they are assets. After all, donít housing prices always go up?

Thatís what youíd believe if you followed most conventional financial advice.
Bad financial advice is also a liability

Rich dad believed that people struggled financially because they make decisions handed down from parent to child, and most people donít come from financially sound families. He often said that most bad financial advice was handed out at home, which is one reason I am an advocate for financial education in the home.

Of course, for most people, while financial advice starts in the home with old rules like go to school, get a good job, save your money, buy a house, and invest for the long term in a diverse portfolio of stocks, bonds, and mutual funds; it doesnít end there. Many people also take the bad advice their parents give them and compound it with bad advice from financial advisors as they get older.

Many financial advisors will tell you that your house is an asset, but that is untrue. As such, this financial advice becomes a liability because it causes you to make bad assumptions and decisions about your personal wealth and your financial future.

The fact is that when financial advisors say a house is an asset, they are not really lying, but they arenít telling the whole truth either. Your house is technically an asset, they just donít say whose asset it really is.
Is a house an asset? Yes, the bankís

If you look at a bank statement, it becomes easy to see just whose asset your house really isóthe bankís asset.

Most people do not own a homeÖthey own a mortgage. Those who are financially educated understand that a mortgage doesnít show up in the asset column on the financial statement. It shows up as a liability. But it does show up on your bankerís balance sheet as an asset as you pay the bank interest every month.

Remember rich dadís definition of an asset, ďAnything that puts money in your pocket. A liability is anything that takes money out of your pocket.Ē

As I mentioned earlier, if you look at your bank statement every month, youíll see that your home puts no money in your pocket and takes a heck of a lot of it out. This is true even if your house is paid off. Even after you pay off your mortgage, you still have to pay money every month in the form of maintenance costs, taxes, and utilities. And if you donít pay your property taxes, guess what can happen? The government can take your home. So, who owns your house really?
Donít let thinking your house is an asset be your liability

Interested in Real Estate?

Download your copy of Rich DadĎs eBook, How To Buy Your First Investment Property... for free!

robert kiyosakis how to buy your first investment property
Download Your eBook Here

Again, am I saying donít buy a house? No. I own a home myself, but I didnít buy it as an asset or think of it as an investment. I bought it because I wanted to live in it and was willing to pay for the privilege of doing so. Could it appreciate in value? Maybe. But it could also lose me money in the end. I donít really care.

What I am saying is donít buy a home and think of it as an asset or investment. Thatís just simply a lie. Unfortunately, that lie continues to perpetuate here in the US and around the world. And until itís finally put to rest, weíll continue to see booms and busts in the housing marketing.



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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2021, 10:47:56 AM »
i wrote a thread post a while back
about how to solve the homeless problem here in the US
took alot of heat and bash from my fellow PH member

basically, i say
stop treating housing as an investment
one house=one family= one couple=one single person


you going start getting those china ghost town
where all the house are sold...but no one live in them



https://youtu.be/R83Ww5nSmSc




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Offline Cali Guy

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2021, 11:34:18 AM »
400 positive is not bad after bills. Someone is basically paying your secondary mortgage for you, I would say keep it as it is.



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Offline Kong Vang

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2021, 11:43:55 AM »
worth a read if you got time....
basically robert kiyosaki say housing is not an investment
i always agree with him on this one

i mean i can barely know how to fix a light switch

p=pebhmong yo





Written by Robert Kiyosaki
Read time: 6 min
Last updated: September 24, 2019
AddThis Sharing Buttons
Share to Facebook
Share to TwitterShare to LinkedInShare to Reddit
An uptick in adjustable-rate mortgages and being doomed to repeat the past

A cultural right of passage is buying your own home. Many people dream of the day when they get the keys to their own front door, imagining the joy that will come with the monumental achievement of taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars in personal debt.

Iím, of course, only being slightly tongue in cheek.
Is a house an asset?

The reality is that many people desire to buy a home because they think of it as a good investment. In terms of a financial statement, they think of their house as an asset. Because of this, in many cases, homeowners expect their house to be a big part of their retirement plan.

For instance, as Rob Carrick writes for the Canadian ďThe Globe and Mail,Ē ďIn a recent study commissioned by the Investor Office of the Ontario Securities Commission, retirement-related issues topped the list of financial concerns of Ontario residents who were 45 and older. Three-quarters of the 1,516 people in the survey own their own home. Within this group, 37 per cent said they are counting on increases in the value of their home to provide for their retirement.Ē

The sentiment Iím sure is the same here in the US, and in many places throughout the world.

The problem with this thinking is that many people simply do not know the difference between an asset and a liability.

My rich dad, my best friendís dad, taught me the simple definition of an asset and a liability. An asset puts money in your pocket. A liability takes money out. To illustrate this, he played the game of ďMonopolyĒ with us because he believed games often are the best teachers (which is also why I invented my financial education board game, CASHFLOW).

The simple premise of ďMonopolyĒ is that you want to buy as much property as possible, place rental houses on those properties (and eventually hotels), and collect rent to become richer than anyone else in the game. The formula was simple, four green houses and then a red hotel. It was a mini-picture of the power of velocity of money as you create more wealth from higher rent to buy bigger assets. It was also the perfect picture of how a house can be an assetóby putting money in your pocket as a rental property investment.
A house is often not an asset but instead a liability

The problem is the majority of people who buy houses do so as a primary residence, not as a rental property. So letís break down what that looks like financially.

On a given month for your personal residence, you need to pay for your mortgage, utilities, maintenance, taxes, insurance, and possibly more. Sometimes these can turn out to be huge costs, for instance, if you need to replace a roof or your main plumbing line collapses.

All of these are things that take money out of your pocket. And as rich dad taught, a liability is something that takes money out of your pocket.

Many so-called experts will point to things like paying down principle, tax breaks from mortgage interest, and appreciation as reasons why the house is an asset, but paying down principle is simply saving and savers are losers, the tax breaks for your mortgage do not offset the costs that go out of your pocket each month, and if youíre banking on appreciation, youíre basically gambling, as homeowners in the Great Recession painfully discovered.

This is not to say you shouldnít buy a house. Iím simply trying to help you see that it is not an asset. Rather it is your home, and should be enjoyed for that, not as your ticket to a secure retirement. Look elsewhere for that. Truth sets people free, and the truth that your home is not an asset but instead a liability is one of the most important truths you can know.
ARMs Dealers

Unfortunately, most people simply donít understand this fundamental truth. This is why Iím not surprised to read that now that housing prices have gone up steadily since 2012. We have a short memory, and the Great Recession is all but erased from the consumer consciousness. This is evidenced by the fact that we started to see people take on riskier mortgages starting in 2017 and continued to do so in 2018 .

As CNBC reported in 2017, ďThe number of adjustable-rate mortgage originations jumped just over 40 percent from the first quarter of this year to the second, according to analysis by Inside Mortgage Finance.Ē

For those needing a refresher, an adjustable-rate mortgage, or ARM, allows potential homeowners to purchase more expensive houses by having lower interest rates than a traditional 30-year fixed-rate mortgage. ARMs are usually offered at one, three, or five years, meaning the interest rate will adjust to market rates after that period. In essence, itís betting that interest rates will be as low or lower down the roadÖand that youíll be in a better financial position to pay more, should the need arise.

You might not be surprised to hear that defaults on ARMs were a big part of why we faced the great recession from 2008 to 2011. And while there are new safeguards in place to ensure that ARMs arenít given to sub-prime borrowers, there is something of a frenzy that is building around buying homes in the US again. This, again, is because people inherently think they are assets. After all, donít housing prices always go up?

Thatís what youíd believe if you followed most conventional financial advice.
Bad financial advice is also a liability

Rich dad believed that people struggled financially because they make decisions handed down from parent to child, and most people donít come from financially sound families. He often said that most bad financial advice was handed out at home, which is one reason I am an advocate for financial education in the home.

Of course, for most people, while financial advice starts in the home with old rules like go to school, get a good job, save your money, buy a house, and invest for the long term in a diverse portfolio of stocks, bonds, and mutual funds; it doesnít end there. Many people also take the bad advice their parents give them and compound it with bad advice from financial advisors as they get older.

Many financial advisors will tell you that your house is an asset, but that is untrue. As such, this financial advice becomes a liability because it causes you to make bad assumptions and decisions about your personal wealth and your financial future.

The fact is that when financial advisors say a house is an asset, they are not really lying, but they arenít telling the whole truth either. Your house is technically an asset, they just donít say whose asset it really is.
Is a house an asset? Yes, the bankís

If you look at a bank statement, it becomes easy to see just whose asset your house really isóthe bankís asset.

Most people do not own a homeÖthey own a mortgage. Those who are financially educated understand that a mortgage doesnít show up in the asset column on the financial statement. It shows up as a liability. But it does show up on your bankerís balance sheet as an asset as you pay the bank interest every month.

Remember rich dadís definition of an asset, ďAnything that puts money in your pocket. A liability is anything that takes money out of your pocket.Ē

As I mentioned earlier, if you look at your bank statement every month, youíll see that your home puts no money in your pocket and takes a heck of a lot of it out. This is true even if your house is paid off. Even after you pay off your mortgage, you still have to pay money every month in the form of maintenance costs, taxes, and utilities. And if you donít pay your property taxes, guess what can happen? The government can take your home. So, who owns your house really?
Donít let thinking your house is an asset be your liability

Interested in Real Estate?

Download your copy of Rich DadĎs eBook, How To Buy Your First Investment Property... for free!

robert kiyosakis how to buy your first investment property
Download Your eBook Here

Again, am I saying donít buy a house? No. I own a home myself, but I didnít buy it as an asset or think of it as an investment. I bought it because I wanted to live in it and was willing to pay for the privilege of doing so. Could it appreciate in value? Maybe. But it could also lose me money in the end. I donít really care.

What I am saying is donít buy a home and think of it as an asset or investment. Thatís just simply a lie. Unfortunately, that lie continues to perpetuate here in the US and around the world. And until itís finally put to rest, weíll continue to see booms and busts in the housing marketing.



I am not so sure I would agree with your assessment. For people like me, who does not have a lot of disposable income and started out with nothing, I think real estate is an asset and is a relatively safe investment. In fact, for most people, their home is their largest source of wealth.





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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2021, 11:52:14 AM »

I am not so sure I would agree with your assessment. For people like me, who does not have a lot of disposable income and started out with nothing, I think real estate is an asset and is a relatively safe investment. In fact, for most people, their home is their largest source of wealth.

Robert kiyosaki makes some good point

Most people do not own a homeÖthey own a mortgage. Those who are financially educated understand that a mortgage doesnít show up in the asset column on the financial statement. It shows up as a liability. But it does show up on your bankerís balance sheet as an asset as you pay the bank interest every month.



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Offline lexicon

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2021, 11:55:23 AM »
I was in the industry (broker) before and during the collapse in 2008. Here's my thoughts;

1. If you can afford to pay the 2 mortgages comfortably, keep the investment property and weather the market.
2. If you can only afford 1 mortgage, keep your primary and sell your investment property.

Of course you have other variables/options/ etc, but I'm giving you the most simple answer. I can't tell you how many people I knew personally who ended up selling/defaulting on all their investment properties and their primary in some cases, because they bit off more than they could chew.




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Offline Kong Vang

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2021, 11:57:42 AM »
It depends on the person's long-term goals.  Hard to tell someone what to do because everyone's wants and needs are different.

These are my thoughts:

1. Sell the rental property because the market is really good right now to sell and your profit will be high.
2. Use proceeds to pay off primary residence.
3. Wait for market to crash to buy another property with the remaining profit (but it's a risk because there may not be a housing crash again, so, if you were to get another property, you'd pay at a premium price unlike the price you paid in 2015 at $160K for your rental).  Or, invest the remaining profit in the stock market or put into a safe interest-bearing fund/account (with at least a 3% return.)

Other thoughts:
- If you don't mind being a landlord, I'd keep the rental for long-term rent income.  Plus, hopefully the price of your rental will just keep going up, so you'll profit in the long-run either way, if you wait to sell when it's favorable in the future.  And you get that $400 monthly income flowing in still.

Great advice Lilly... very insightful and thoughtful. I do agree with a lot your assessment.

I really love the idea of not having a mortgage hanging over my head and that may still be the option I will most likely take. However, I don't want to leave any money on the table should hone prices keep going up. The good thing is I don't really need the money right now as I still have 7 more years on my plan to retire at 55. Also, I am still making money off the rental. One of the disadvantages of being single is I sometimes think too much and never take action.



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Offline Kong Vang

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2021, 12:02:02 PM »
Robert kiyosaki makes some good point

Most people do not own a homeÖthey own a mortgage. Those who are financially educated understand that a mortgage doesnít show up in the asset column on the financial statement. It shows up as a liability. But it does show up on your bankerís balance sheet as an asset as you pay the bank interest every month.

Again, I don't know if I would agree. Regardless of where you live, you have to pay someone something. The difference is that RENT goes into a bottomless pit, of which you will never ever see a penny from. However, with a MORTGAGE, at least you have the possibility to see an end to the payout and a real possibility of your home going up in value.


« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 12:08:03 PM by Kong Vang »

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Offline Kong Vang

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2021, 12:04:00 PM »
I was in the industry (broker) before and during the collapse in 2008. Here's my thoughts;

1. If you can afford to pay the 2 mortgages comfortably, keep the investment property and weather the market.
2. If you can only afford 1 mortgage, keep your primary and sell your investment property.

Of course you have other variables/options/ etc, but I'm giving you the most simple answer. I can't tell you how many people I knew personally who ended up selling/defaulting on all their investment properties and their primary in some cases, because they bit off more than they could chew.

Thank you... As indicated, I got lucky and picked up the rental at a super low price. So, even if I did not have renters, I am able to swing both mortgages. I am not so concern about not making payments, I am more concern about when to sale is I do decide.



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Offline tRouBLe

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2021, 12:07:10 PM »
Here's a hypothetical situation:

You have a secondary home purchased in 2015 for 160k and the house is now worth about 350k and rising. You owe about 70k on your primary home and could possibly pay it off with the sale of your secondary home. Your secondary home is generating about 400.00 positive income a month.

Would you drop the rental and pay off your primary home and invest the difference?

or

Would you keep the rental and hope the market keep going or at least just level off? Knowing you'll get 400 a month?

If the second house is in a good area, I would keep it as an investment property so that it keeps generating income.  Keep in mind, positive income will only increase over time.  Historically for the most part, real estate appreciates.  Again, depending on the location.  If you donít have any issues with both mortgage payments now, no need to change anything.....b ut thatís just my opinion.   ;D



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Offline Kong Vang

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2021, 12:13:43 PM »
If the second house is in a good area, I would keep it as an investment property so that it keeps generating income.  Keep in mind, positive income will only increase over time.  Historically for the most part, real estate appreciates.  Again, depending on the location.  If you donít have any issues with both mortgage payments now, no need to change anything.....b ut thatís just my opinion.   ;D

Thanks Beautiful. I did not think about the location much.

And no, the rental is not in a very good neighborhood, NOT the best, but not the worst either. The schools are rated a 4-5 out of ten and the crime rate is tolerable. Houses in that area were  built in the 80-90s so a lot of renters.



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Offline hmgROCK

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Re: Housing Market Question
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2021, 12:19:24 PM »
I was in the industry (broker) before and during the collapse in 2008. Here's my thoughts;

1. If you can afford to pay the 2 mortgages comfortably, keep the investment property and weather the market.
2. If you can only afford 1 mortgage, keep your primary and sell your investment property.

Of course you have other variables/options/ etc, but I'm giving you the most simple answer. I can't tell you how many people I knew personally who ended up selling/defaulting on all their investment properties and their primary in some cases, because they bit off more than they could chew.

Again, I don't know if I would agree. Regardless of where you live, you have to pay someone something. The difference is that RENT goes into a bottomless pit, of which you will never ever see a penny from. However, with a MORTGAGE, at least you have the possibility to see an end to the payout and a real possibility of your home going up in value.


A lot of the meeka people i know who invest in the real estate market back in 2008
Alot of them lost alot of money
just recoverying back today

How you think i was able to own my house for dirt cheap
PURE LUCK.... ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY



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