PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: Hmong-Everything on May 30, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
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It's astonishing to understand that the Hmong community allows 18 old men to control and decide how we should communicate and think. Us, being the younger generation who study and learned through the American education system; we have to shut up and listen to these 18 members decide what is best for us.
We allow these old farts with little to no education to advise our problems/issues and life. These 18 counsel member have no knowledge of American History. What they understand is the ways of the Hmong traditions and how they can apply that to American rules and regulations.
The 18 counsel members don't represent 18 hmong clans. They represent greed; they exploit the hmong culture and profit through the hmong ignorance. The Hmong community is very secretive. Hmongs like to keep their problems within their community/family. The reason for 18 counsil is to have Hmongs report abuse and dysfunctional activity. 18 counsil is just another filter to block these activities from ever going "public." Hmongs dont like losing face so they will always keep things hush-hush. 18 counsil helps them with doing that. Hmong 18 counsel are the best "Sweet talkers" - what I mean by sweet talk is they sugar coat everything. Manipulating and using calm, soft words to bring a temparory solutions to the problem but never solving it.
They present themselves as being fair to the hmong community but yet give no respect to hmong women. They will not allow a woman to represent them as a counsel member. These are barriers that needs to be address but will not because they feel the need to control and supress our community. Instead of creating an "organization" to help the hmong community, what 18 counsel does is create another "barrier." Especially hmong women and children, they are the ones suffering.
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I for one don't allow them to govern me!
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wow. someone is certainly mad.
:2funny: :2funny:
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It's just funny how some people get so worked up over things. I've been around longer than the 18 Clan Council and have never been affected by them.
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It's astonishing to understand that the Hmong community allows 18 old men to control and decide how we should communicate and think. Us, being the younger generation who study and learned through the American education system; we have to shut up and listen to these 18 members decide what is best for us.
We allow these old farts with little to no education to advise our problems/issues and life. These 18 counsel member have no knowledge of American History. What they understand is the ways of the Hmong traditions and how they can apply that to American rules and regulations.
The 18 counsel members don't represent 18 hmong clans. They represent greed; they exploit the hmong culture and profit through the hmong ignorance. The Hmong community is very secretive. Hmongs like to keep their problems within their community/family. The reason for 18 counsil is to have Hmongs report abuse and dysfunctional activity. 18 counsil is just another filter to block these activities from ever going "public." Hmongs dont like losing face so they will always keep things hush-hush. 18 counsil helps them with doing that. Hmong 18 counsel are the best "Sweet talkers" - what I mean by sweet talk is they sugar coat everything. Manipulating and using calm, soft words to bring a temparory solutions to the problem but never solving it.
They present themselves as being fair to the hmong community but yet give no respect to hmong women. They will not allow a woman to represent them as a counsel member. These are barriers that needs to be address but will not because they feel the need to control and supress our community. Instead of creating an "organization" to help the hmong community, what 18 counsel does is create another "barrier." Especially hmong women and children, they are the ones suffering.
That's nothing new with the "clan". Plus this is America, the 18 clan don't "control" me or many other Hmong-Americans. In fact, they don't have much to say about anything here.
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I wonder how these hmong council get elected? ???
the same way they get selected on PH. The guy with the most post and games ;D
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I don't even know who they are or what you're talking about.
People can only control you if you allow them to.
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My dad and his cohorts are members of the 18 clan council. Their mentality is the complete opposite of mine and we butt heads a lot. My solution has been a simple one: move away! I mean physically remove yourself from their presence. Their world or should I say "bubble" they live in is very tiny and once you venture away from that... go travel to new places, meet people of different backgrounds, and discover the world in your own eyes... that is the only way to grow your mind.
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Where does this 18 clan counsel reside? Do they make special appearances? Website? Facebook?
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It's astonishing to understand that the Hmong community allows 18 old men to control and decide how we should communicate and think. Us, being the younger generation who study and learned through the American education system; we have to shut up and listen to these 18 members decide what is best for us.
We allow these old farts with little to no education to advise our problems/issues and life. These 18 counsel member have no knowledge of American History. What they understand is the ways of the Hmong traditions and how they can apply that to American rules and regulations.
The 18 counsel members don't represent 18 hmong clans. They represent greed; they exploit the hmong culture and profit through the hmong ignorance. The Hmong community is very secretive. Hmongs like to keep their problems within their community/family. The reason for 18 counsil is to have Hmongs report abuse and dysfunctional activity. 18 counsil is just another filter to block these activities from ever going "public." Hmongs dont like losing face so they will always keep things hush-hush. 18 counsil helps them with doing that. Hmong 18 counsel are the best "Sweet talkers" - what I mean by sweet talk is they sugar coat everything. Manipulating and using calm, soft words to bring a temparory solutions to the problem but never solving it.
They present themselves as being fair to the hmong community but yet give no respect to hmong women. They will not allow a woman to represent them as a counsel member. These are barriers that needs to be address but will not because they feel the need to control and supress our community. Instead of creating an "organization" to help the hmong community, what 18 counsel does is create another "barrier." Especially hmong women and children, they are the ones suffering.
They say if you live life in a pond, you are restricted by what is thrown at you. If you, by chance, swim across the border and enter into a flowing stream, you develop greater strength to go against the current.
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It's astonishing to understand that the Hmong community allows 18 old men to control and decide how we should communicate and think. Us, being the younger generation who study and learned through the American education system; we have to shut up and listen to these 18 members decide what is best for us.
We allow these old farts with little to no education to advise our problems/issues and life. These 18 counsel member have no knowledge of American History. What they understand is the ways of the Hmong traditions and how they can apply that to American rules and regulations.
The 18 counsel members don't represent 18 hmong clans. They represent greed; they exploit the hmong culture and profit through the hmong ignorance. The Hmong community is very secretive. Hmongs like to keep their problems within their community/family. The reason for 18 counsil is to have Hmongs report abuse and dysfunctional activity. 18 counsil is just another filter to block these activities from ever going "public." Hmongs dont like losing face so they will always keep things hush-hush. 18 counsil helps them with doing that. Hmong 18 counsel are the best "Sweet talkers" - what I mean by sweet talk is they sugar coat everything. Manipulating and using calm, soft words to bring a temparory solutions to the problem but never solving it.
They present themselves as being fair to the hmong community but yet give no respect to hmong women. They will not allow a woman to represent them as a counsel member. These are barriers that needs to be address but will not because they feel the need to control and supress our community. Instead of creating an "organization" to help the hmong community, what 18 counsel does is create another "barrier." Especially hmong women and children, they are the ones suffering.
I'm confused about these two statements. One is the opposite to the other, yet both claim they are reasons the Council was created.
Clarify please.
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Oh, OK. I think I've got it now: the first statement is your thinking of what the Council should be based on; the second is what the Council actually does or is.
Enough said.
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Why are there no women in 18 clan? At lease as co chair of each clan.
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Why are there no women in 18 clan? At lease as co chair of each clan.
As you may already know from your in-laws, the Hmong men carry the clan name. A woman doesn't. So, a woman cannot represent a clan. She has two with her, of course: her biological clan and her husband's clan. But her father or brother represents her biological clan; her husband or his father represent her husband's clan. She's really aced out.
That's the traditional way. Today, I think women should be able to be on the Council and represent a particular clan. Just a matter of respect for all three genders--male, female, and gay.
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As you may already know from your in-laws, the Hmong men carry the clan name. A woman doesn't. So, a woman cannot represent a clan. She has two with her, of course: her biological clan and her husband's clan. But her father or brother represents her biological clan; her husband or his father represent her husband's clan. She's really aced out.
That's the traditional way. Today, I think women should be able to be on the Council and represent a particular clan. Just a matter of respect for all three genders--male, female, and gay.
agreed
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its very simple..friend s of ph..
step up to be hold accountable to your own actions. dig yourself out and no one will ever dare to butt in.. but if you still want their help too then just shut up and follow. you are your man/woman to make decisions for yourself. are you not?
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Why are there no women in 18 clan? At lease as co chair of each clan.
Because Hmorons will continue to carry on primitive Hmoron thinking i.e., women have no say...
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Wow, really?!
Is this the best the PH has to offer? So many bash 18 Xeem, but they know so little about it. Many of you are truly desktop expert. The vice president of 18 Xeem is actually a female. Get the facts straight before you open your mouth. Now doesn't that make you look and sound foolish. With a simple statement, all your bashing becomes completely obsolete.
Here is how you bash 18 Xeem:
1) Ridicule them on their stupidity of making rules when the Constitution already has rules to govern all its citizen. If 18 Xeem contest or object, denounce your citizenship and leave this country.
2) The credentials of the members are laughable, at best. The vice president is just a mere teacher. What qualifications does she have to create laws. Certainly, a BS in political science is a start; but to be taken seriously, you need a Ph.D.
3) As the members if another Hmong person violate them, are they happy with the guidelines set by their counsel. Really, $5,000 gives you the license to fornicate any woman. I will take you to the legal system and see how much damage I can sue you for.
4) There are so many other ways to bash them. I understand your frustration with their self-appointed righteousness. If you are going to attack them, you must do so intelligently. Expose all their flaws and stupidity. The title of your thread says "Exposing Hmong 18 Counsel Clan". Thus far, I've just seen superficial conjectures. You need to dig deeper and have something concrete to base your opinions. Systematically tear them down one piece at a time. When there is methodology to your discourse, others will not think that you are just a mad lunatic. I hope that you will do more than just criticize them on PH. I want to be there in person when this happens. Keep me posted.
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Just like how we all like to eat our salad but we get them mexicans to do all the farm labor work.
18 xeem is working hard for you because you are too lazy to do something about it.
I can careless because I am not hmong but I'm just saying... naw mean?
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If this is a stupid question don't get offended, I have a need to know so I will ask.
Why in this modern day and age would you still need to seek the clan leader, and why is there still a need for it?
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It's easier for people to complain than to be leaders. That's why so many people are quick to cry foul at the slightest notion that doesn't align with their own beliefs. If you want change, then take the steps to invoke it. Don't complain when you're not leading.
Even President Obama has haters.
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I would think it's harder for the new generation of Hmong and the future of Hmong to be acceptance to this age old custom right? I see more and more Hmong adopting and accepting the western culture and intergrating into American society very well.
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someones getting mad cuz they got screwed by the 18 councel....... ......lmao.... ...........if u dont like it, dont go to them.......... ...they are just a "OPTION"..........
btw, im in a part of them too........... ...... MUAHAHAHAHA... ... ;D ;D
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we should not bash our so called own organizations. It's established for the purpose of providing guidance and assistance to those WHO NEEDS IT. Whether the policies are conflicting, poor experience to unqualified members..they offer a service and it's the service that one should take into consideration. ..not to mention, free. If you don't need it...fine! They're not knocking on your doors for donations, why criticize?!?!
couldnt say it any better my brother.......
i know who im voting for president..... the one and only, Mr. PRESIDENT himself!!! O0
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can someone please explain what this 18 clan thingy is...
I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
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I'm confused about these two statements. One is the opposite to the other, yet both claim they are reasons the Council was created.
Clarify please.
I don't consider 18 counsel clan a "public" affair. Police and government is consider public. To clarify the statement; 18 counsel act as a filter for the Hmong community to report their issues so that it may never have to go "public" to the police or other government institution. This is another way of hiding your dirty problems. 18 Counsel wants to preserve the Hmong face in the American Community. They want all the Hmong problems to go to them; but have no "ideal" how to resolve most of these issues. Hmong 18 counsel does not pratice "civil rights" laws. That's why Hmong women and children suffer under their care. It's not an organization to help the hmong community, it's an organization to control and suppress. And in the process, they're collecting a lot of government fundings aswell as from the Hmong community. It's outrageous!
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can someone please explain what this 18 clan thingy is...
I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
Hmong 18 counsel was created because the 18 hmong clans were having issues in the hmong community. Issues regarding how certain traditions should be practiced.
18 members representing all the hmong clan names. example: vang, yang, thao, xiong, etc.
They have an organization here in MN, St.paul, and one in WI.
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we should not bash our so called own organizations. It's established for the purpose of providing guidance and assistance to those WHO NEEDS IT. Whether the policies are conflicting, poor experience to unqualified members..they offer a service and it's the service that one should take into consideration. ..not to mention, free. If you don't need it...fine! They're not knocking on your doors for donations, why criticize?!?!
I agree. Until those who complain become leaders, then will never understand what is means to lead. If you don't like how the 18 Clan Council is run, then go run for its office, durh! :idiot2:
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I don't consider 18 counsel clan a "public" affair. Police and government is consider public. To clarify the statement; 18 counsel act as a filter for the Hmong community to report their issues so that it may never have to go "public" to the police or other government institution. This is another way of hiding your dirty problems. 18 Counsel wants to preserve the Hmong face in the American Community. They want all the Hmong problems to go to them; but have no "ideal" how to resolve most of these issues. Hmong 18 counsel does not pratice "civil rights" laws. That's why Hmong women and children suffer under their care. It's not an organization to help the hmong community, it's an organization to control and suppress. And in the process, they're collecting a lot of government fundings aswell as from the Hmong community. It's outrageous!
wait...
you're telling me... that if someone did something bad, or something bad happened, you can just go to these guys/gals and they'll sort it all out for you?
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we should not bash our so called own organizations. It's established for the purpose of providing guidance and assistance to those WHO NEEDS IT. Whether the policies are conflicting, poor experience to unqualified members..they offer a service and it's the service that one should take into consideration. ..not to mention, free. If you don't need it...fine! They're not knocking on your doors for donations, why criticize?!?!
Hmong 18 Counsel charge people for their services. And they over charge at that. One mediation session regarding children/custody is atleast $500 dollars. Fact!
Go watch a youtube clip of their speech on mediation. They explain their reasoning for charging people. It's ridiculis. Remember this is a governmetn funded organization. They have plenty of money to make these services free. But they want to profit from it. THIS IS SUPPOSE TO BE A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION!
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is there a website i can visit for them? is it like the central hmong office.. not sure what it's really called... my parents just called it the "kho ho hmong", or something like that...
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I agree. Until those who complain become leaders, then will never understand what is means to lead. If you don't like how the 18 Clan Council is run, then go run for its office, durh! :idiot2:
See, this is what you forget. You're thinking too selfishly here. Think about the people that are not as educated as you are. The people that don't know how to exercise their civil rights or know american laws/regulations. They will turn to 18 counsel and be exploited under it's ignorance.
Any educated person will never use Hmong 18 counsel as a solution. Only people with lower education. This is not to put those people down. It is our duty to make it an awareness and that 18 counsel should not exploit these people. They should assist them as intended.
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Sounded like a battle that's very lopsided when the dust all cleared. Oh well...you still have the system, hopefully it'll work out to your advantage. O0
With any elders, they'll more than likely expose the mouse and where it had been playing and with whom, when the cat's away. Jerry can be very daring when Tom's asleep or not paying attention. But like in the cartoon show itself, he has to pay and sometimes it could be very lopsided.
Good luck!
Oops! had to make a correction.
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wait...
you're telling me... that if someone did something bad, or something bad happened, you can just go to these guys/gals and they'll sort it all out for you?
Any educated person will not go to them. 18 counsel takes advantage of people with little to no education. Especially people who just immigrated here.
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This is why I am surprise that it still being practice today.
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do they have a website... i mean, if you have something you wish to bring to them... how do you set it up.
is it like going to court?
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See, this is what you forget. You're thinking too selfishly here. Think about the people that are not as educated as you are. The people that don't know how to exercise their civil rights or know american laws/regulations. They will turn to 18 counsel and be exploited under it's ignorance.
Any educated person will never use Hmong 18 counsel as a solution. Only people with lower education. This is not to put those people down. It is our duty to make it an awareness and that 18 counsel should not exploit these people. They should assist them as intended.
Seems you're most agitated by them. If so, why don't you just go 0-Dark-30 on them?
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is there a website i can visit for them? is it like the central hmong office.. not sure what it's really called... my parents just called it the "kho ho hmong", or something like that...
There's no official website. Here's a youtube link during a hmong news conference with some of the members of the 18 counsel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5HqJBi8758# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5HqJBi8758#)
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i guess i still don't understand exactly what it is that they do, or what their role is?
Can someone please give me a real example of what they do... and make it a recent example.
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Seems you're most agitated by them. If so, why don't you just go 0-Dark-30 on them?
Plenty of times. The government is not focusing how they're laundrying money from the hmong community. They're over charging fees and making excuses. They charge clients $100 for filing documents. They charge clients another $100 for just walking into their facility and using their "air" "electricity." Don't believe me. Watch the youtube clip. These are ridiculus charges to stuff their wallets. Government funded organization should not charge people like this. 18 counsel already know their customers and will know they will always have people coming to them. This MONEY MAKING for them! These rich! suckers are exploited the systems right under our noses. Oh, they're smart and sneaking but the hmong community needs to be smarter and know the truth!
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i guess i still don't understand exactly what it is that they do, or what their role is?
Can someone please give me a real example of what they do... and make it a recent example.
Their purpose is to resolves problems dealing with "domestic abuse" "divorces" "child custody" "marriage negotiations" "marriage issues" in the hmong community.
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They don't squeeze me for a penny other than going to the J4 tournament or the New Year celebration. Besides, I handle my business in-house.
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lets say this, if u can run, organize, arrange and be in charge of a hmong traditional wedding/funeral without seeking assistance from the ELDERS, than i would agree......... if u cant, and still need help, than why all the bickering!?!?!?
before GVP passed, (RIP), majority would bash on him, how he stole money from your parents or wat not, did he ever point a gun an say pay me?? they were willing to pay him for watever cause......... .but in the meantime, forgot how we got here in the USA the first place?
and now this with the 18 clan??? wtf!?!?!
We have so many hmong stores, etc....but majority would rather support the other races?? i dont get it?!?!?
Thats why we dont have a country and never will, becuz of our egos, thinking im better than you or wat not, bashing and talkin down on one another....sup port one another, i would rather have a hmong person in the senate, council, board members, etc... than any other race, wouldnt u???.......im starting to give up on this, "OUR" generation will never ammount to our parents and wat they did n wat they overcome...our generation dont have that resilience...s mdh!!
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They don't squeeze me for a penny other than going to the J4 tournament or the New Year celebration. Besides, I handle my business in-house.
I guess it doesn't concern you if it's not directly affecting you. But it concerns me because it's affecting a lot of the hmong community who is less fortunate.
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I guess it doesn't concern you if it's not directly affecting you. But it concerns me because it's affecting a lot of the hmong community who is less fortunate.
take action/do something/riot/protest...
.....complaint s=NOTHING!!! esp on here lmao!!
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lets say this, if u can run, organize, arrange and be in charge of a hmong traditional wedding/funeral without seeking assistance from the ELDERS, than i would agree......... if u cant, and still need help, than why all the bickering!?!?!?
before GVP passed, (RIP), majority would bash on him, how he stole money from your parents or wat not, did he ever point a gun an say pay me?? they were willing to pay him for watever cause......... .but in the meantime, forgot how we got here in the USA the first place?
and now this with the 18 clan??? wtf!?!?!
We have so many hmong stores, etc....but majority would rather support the other races?? i dont get it?!?!?
Thats why we dont have a country and never will, becuz of our egos, thinking im better than you or wat not, bashing and talkin down on one another....sup port one another, i would rather have a hmong person in the senate, council, board members, etc... than any other race, wouldnt u???.......im starting to give up on this, "OUR" generation will never ammount to our parents and wat they did n wat they overcome...our generation dont have that resilience...s mdh!!
Exactly. Those who are bitter (for no apparent reason other than their feathers are ruffled) should take it up with Lao Family. True, it is an organization similiar to the federal government, which rules and laws which Hmong people use. But unlike the federal government, if you choose not to follow Lao Family's rules, they don't arrest you and force you to pay. Heck, Lao Family doesn't even charge taxes! Hahaha...why complain so much? If it really bothers, you...then do something about it. Splatter your agenda all over the Hmong papers, better yet..."expose" them at the national level. I'm sure with all this energy you've spent typing and criticizing them, you would have already gathered a rallying group of staunch supports to aide your "cause."
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lets say this, if u can run, organize, arrange and be in charge of a hmong traditional wedding/funeral without seeking assistance from the ELDERS, than i would agree......... if u cant, and still need help, than why all the bickering!?!?!?
before GVP passed, (RIP), majority would bash on him, how he stole money from your parents or wat not, did he ever point a gun an say pay me?? they were willing to pay him for watever cause......... .but in the meantime, forgot how we got here in the USA the first place?
and now this with the 18 clan??? wtf!?!?!
We have so many hmong stores, etc....but majority would rather support the other races?? i dont get it?!?!?
Thats why we dont have a country and never will, becuz of our egos, thinking im better than you or wat not, bashing and talkin down on one another....sup port one another, i would rather have a hmong person in the senate, council, board members, etc... than any other race, wouldnt u???.......im starting to give up on this, "OUR" generation will never ammount to our parents and wat they did n wat they overcome...our generation dont have that resilience...s mdh!!
Don't you pull General Vang Pao into this. That man has his own crimes and history to him. He did great things as much as horrible things. Please don't start with that properganda with me!
I will explain so you may think clearly for a bit instead of drownining in political reasonings. This is what's at stake; let me paint you the picture. Hmong community needs help, we have a non-profit orgranzition (18 clan counsel) promising to assist Hmongs with issues. This is a great! plan. But these plans were did not go as intended, its being exploited for finanical gain. Money plays such a huge role it destroys the morals behind the idea. Why do hmongs always bash hmongs? You keep saying that; because Hmongs don't know how to play by the rules. They always feel to have a "gain" in the process. The decease Senator "Paul Wellstone" was our greatest political leader; he had great ideas for the hmong community. Now, we're being run by "uneducated" old fashioned men who still believes that hmong men are entitled. Understand that we live under American government which allows rights to all people. It's so backwards thinking, that is why hmongs will always bash hmongs. They have no understanding and williness to admit their flaws and mistakes.
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take action/do something/riot/protest...
.....complaint s=NOTHING!!! esp on here lmao!!
So are you saying this forum is only for the perverts and goof-balls to come rant. This is a public forum for all to share and inform. If you are concern with me sharing my views and thoughts. Please promote your goofballs and perverts on here. They seem to entertain you more.
Please, 18 counsel should be doing better. And not exploiting our people.
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Don't you pull General Vang Pao into this. That man has his own crimes and history to him. He did great things as much as horrible things. Please don't start with that properganda with me!
I will explain so you may think clearly for a bit instead of drownining in political reasonings. This is what's at stake; let me paint you the picture. Hmong community needs help, we have a non-profit orgranzition (18 clan counsel) promising to assist Hmongs with issues. This is a great! plan. But these plans were did not go as intended, its being exploited for finanical gain. Money plays such a huge role it destroys the morals behind the idea. Why do hmongs always bash hmongs? You keep saying that; because Hmongs don't know how to play by the rules. They always feel to have a "gain" in the process. The decease Senator "Paul Wellstone" was our greatest political leader; he had great ideas for the hmong community. Now, we're being run by "uneducated" old fashioned men who still believes that hmong men are entitled. Understand that we live under American government which allows rights to all people. It's so backwards thinking, that is why hmongs will always bash hmongs. They have no understanding and williness to admit their flaws and mistakes.
well for one thing, complaining in here wont do nothing!! secondly, if u know so much, start another organization, wether non profit or not, and go compete against them!?! i guaran-dam-tee you that if u did, majority will still go to the 18 counsel bcuz they know the traditions, rules, laws, etc....in the hmong community..... .yea, some of yall mite be educated wit a BA, PHD., but no, i mean ZERO knowledge about hmong customs/tradition.......and yet complains!!! i feel bad about the less fortunate, uneducated elders or wat not, but wat can u do???
and bout GVP, dont even start!
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well for one thing, complaining in here wont do nothing!! secondly, if u know so much, start another organization, wether non profit or not, and go compete against them!?! i guaran-dam-tee you that if u did, majority will still go to the 18 counsel bcuz they know the traditions, rules, laws, etc....in the hmong community..... .yea, some of yall mite be educated wit a BA, PHD., but no, i mean ZERO knowledge about hmong customs/tradition.......and yet complains!!! i feel bad about the less fortunate, uneducated elders or wat not, but wat can u do???
and bout GVP, dont even start!
Can you comprehand the difference between "complaining" and "informing." They're the same. The idea behind complaining is to bring into light an argument- an awareness. We must complain before changes can be made. Yes, the idea of a public forum makes for a great "complaining" or "informing" media tool. I can also go out and throw big signs and have a riot party but I decided to choose this medium to discuss my concerns.
People come here to complain about their wives and husband as an act to "inform." They want advice, change, something- Understand that there is a problem with 18 counsel.
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Ok, this thread has officially gone boring, and even pathetic. Time to check out of this burning hotel.
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the affect of not having one would be more detrimental to the community...es pecially to those of less education and less fortunate. of course one can advise them to settle disputes in court, but as you know, the court does not have the time of day to listen to anyone's sob story. Courts ruling is final and cost can much more than one can endure. Most of the time, it isn't so much the resolution of the issues but just having someone listen and hopefully understands a person's problem, with a much more favorable ruling.
Yes! that idea is the key to the problem. To help the less fortunate. I know how the court system works. The courts would prefer people go through mediation first before having to file their petitions.
If 18 counsel actually provides free services and better judgements pertaining to woman rights. This will all be solved. Remeber; this organization is non-profit yet they charge atleast $500 per mediation session. The only thing free is the "consultation."
18 counsel is in it for the money. It's obvious.
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$$ is the root of all evil!
will u work for me for FREEEEEEE??????? ;D ;D ;D
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$$ is the root of all evil!
will u work for me for FREEEEEEE??????? ;D ;D ;D
18 counsel is being funded by the Minneosta Government Assosication. They are being paid a nice large sum every year to assist the hmong community. But they are charging for their services. 18 counsel is not working for free. Money does changes people's morals and conduct. I just wish the hmong community is aware of what's going on.
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time to clean house...?
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Oh STOP complaining and START doing if who ever think they can do a better job!!!!
It doesn't do any good complaining in PH.
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Wow, really?!
Is this the best the PH has to offer? So many bash 18 Xeem, but they know so little about it. Many of you are truly desktop expert. The vice president of 18 Xeem is actually a female. Get the facts straight before you open your mouth. Now doesn't that make you look and sound foolish. With a simple statement, all your bashing becomes completely obsolete.
Here is how you bash 18 Xeem:
1) Ridicule them on their stupidity of making rules when the Constitution already has rules to govern all its citizen. If 18 Xeem contest or object, denounce your citizenship and leave this country.
2) The credentials of the members are laughable, at best. The vice president is just a mere teacher. What qualifications does she have to create laws. Certainly, a BS in political science is a start; but to be taken seriously, you need a Ph.D.
3) As the members if another Hmong person violate them, are they happy with the guidelines set by their counsel. Really, $5,000 gives you the license to fornicate any woman. I will take you to the legal system and see how much damage I can sue you for.
4) There are so many other ways to bash them. I understand your frustration with their self-appointed righteousness. If you are going to attack them, you must do so intelligently. Expose all their flaws and stupidity. The title of your thread says "Exposing Hmong 18 Counsel Clan". Thus far, I've just seen superficial conjectures. You need to dig deeper and have something concrete to base your opinions. Systematically tear them down one piece at a time. When there is methodology to your discourse, others will not think that you are just a mad lunatic. I hope that you will do more than just criticize them on PH. I want to be there in person when this happens. Keep me posted.
wow, someone has there pantys in a bunch. Why are they working so hard? All the work goes unnoticed due to the fact that's none of it is legally binding at least as far as I can tell. If PH isn't fulfilling enough for you, you shouldn't visit anymore.
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Was trolliing and read all the comments..my two cents,
18 xeem = old people finding work for themselves
If you are educated/westernized then educate your parents
So that that when they are old, they dont find work for themselves.
Problem solved.
Thanks,
slude
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I'm not with the 18 clan or against them, all I know is you foolz don't let them dictate your life but then you let allow a judge decide your faith in court. It's basically the same system all together run by different people and different law. O0
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I'm not with the 18 clan or against them, all I know is you foolz don't let them dictate your life but then you let allow a judge decide your faith in court. It's basically the same system all together run by different people and different law. O0
There's a difference with Judges and 18 counsel. Judges follow American laws and regulations. 18 counsel promotes the flaws of Hmong culture and traditions and doesn't pratice "civil rights."
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There's a difference with Judges and 18 counsel. Judges follow American laws and regulations. 18 counsel promotes the flaws of Hmong culture and traditions and doesn't pratice "civil rights."
If you truly believe judges follows the law, you still have a lot to learn yet. O0
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If you truly believe judges follows the law, you still have a lot to learn yet. O0
The court system upholds and enforces the laws. The judges controls the tempo and orders within the court. The judge is confined to mainting order in the court and ruling the sentences of offenders. The judge can not break any rules or regulations. I would like to hear some examples of when a judge actually not follow Americna Laws. Please I beg of you to find me some evidence. Don't base the judge breaking American Laws on his decisions in criminal judgement. Because you will not be right.
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The court system upholds and enforces the laws. The judges controls the tempo and orders within the court. The judge is confined to mainting order in the court and ruling the sentences of offenders. The judge can not break any rules or regulations. I would like to hear some examples of when a judge actually not follow Americna Laws. Please I beg of you to find me some evidence. Don't base the judge breaking American Laws on his decisions in criminal judgement. Because you will not be right.
I'm willing to bet that you believe every cops out there are confined to maintain order too and will never break the law. :2funny:
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I'm willing to bet that you believe every cops out there are confined to maintain order too and will never break the law. :2funny:
Don't be silly. Cops are human beings. Laws are written codes of conduct. Humans are corrupted creatures. You understanding me.
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Don't be silly. Cops are human beings. Laws are written codes of conduct. Humans are corrupted creatures. You understanding me.
So, is a judge a human like the cops or is the judge a robot? Exactly!
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Too much complaining.
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So, is a judge a human like the cops or is the judge a robot? Exactly!
Judge is a human. But the role of the judge is different from a cop. A cop can easily re-gard certain laws and regulations because his work is in "the streets." The cops governs the city streets; no institions regulates what a cop can do when he/she is exercising American justice laws. Only internal affairs can investigate cops. And internal affairs do not regulate the streets. They only investigate corrupt cops.
Where as a judge is limited to free-range pratice on his ideas for breaking the laws. His/her judgement is confined into the power of "court." The supreme court can over-hear a judges decisions if it deems unfair. A judge cant just kick or punch a client like cops. Cops are thrown in life/death situations where there is a gray-zone on their actions. A judge is there to make a logical punishement for the offender.
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Judge is a human. But the role of the judge is different from a cop. A cop can easily re-gard certain laws and regulations because his work is in "the streets." The cops governs the city streets; no institions regulates what a cop can do when he/she is exercising American justice laws. Only internal affairs can investigate cops. And internal affairs do not regulate the streets. They only investigate corrupt cops.
Where as a judge is limited to free-range pratice on his ideas for breaking the laws. His/her judgement is confined into the power of "court." The supreme court can over-hear a judges decisions if it deems unfair. A judge cant just kick or punch a client like cops. Cops are thrown in life/death situations where there is a gray-zone on their actions. A judge is there to make a logical punishement for the offender.
You said, "humans are corrupted creatures", if a judge is a human they are corrupted one way or another, don't matter how you put it or explain it.
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Any judge can be bribed. Seen it often.
All judges are political. They will side with their political party.
Since all judges are elected, they are ALWAYS concern about the next term.
*Wait! why are we hijacking this thread?*
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wow, someone has there pantys in a bunch. Why are they working so hard? All the work goes unnoticed due to the fact that's none of it is legally binding at least as far as I can tell. If PH isn't fulfilling enough for you, you shouldn't visit anymore.
Another fool that missed the mark.
I was merely helping the OP become better at constructive criticism. Please re-read with an open mind. Ua tsaug!
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You said, "humans are corrupted creatures", if a judge is a human they are corrupted one way or another, don't matter how you put it or explain it.
Humans are corrupted creatures because "money" talks. Bribes and scandals will always happen. No human is ever 100% pure good. We're intellectual creatures that have needs and wants; these ideas will drive us to be corrupted.
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Humans are corrupted creatures because "money" talks. Bribes and scandals will always happen. No human is ever 100% pure good. We're intellectual creatures that have needs and wants; these ideas will drive us to be corrupted.
Finally you understand that judges are just as corrupted as the 18 clans. O0
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Who?
Wow, really?!
Is this the best the PH has to offer? So many bash 18 Xeem, but they know so little about it. Many of you are truly desktop expert. The vice president of 18 Xeem is actually a female. Get the facts straight before you open your mouth. Now doesn't that make you look and sound foolish. With a simple statement, all your bashing becomes completely obsolete.
Here is how you bash 18 Xeem:
1) Ridicule them on their stupidity of making rules when the Constitution already has rules to govern all its citizen. If 18 Xeem contest or object, denounce your citizenship and leave this country.
2) The credentials of the members are laughable, at best. The vice president is just a mere teacher. What qualifications does she have to create laws. Certainly, a BS in political science is a start; but to be taken seriously, you need a Ph.D.
3) As the members if another Hmong person violate them, are they happy with the guidelines set by their counsel. Really, $5,000 gives you the license to fornicate any woman. I will take you to the legal system and see how much damage I can sue you for.
4) There are so many other ways to bash them. I understand your frustration with their self-appointed righteousness. If you are going to attack them, you must do so intelligently. Expose all their flaws and stupidity. The title of your thread says "Exposing Hmong 18 Counsel Clan". Thus far, I've just seen superficial conjectures. You need to dig deeper and have something concrete to base your opinions. Systematically tear them down one piece at a time. When there is methodology to your discourse, others will not think that you are just a mad lunatic. I hope that you will do more than just criticize them on PH. I want to be there in person when this happens. Keep me posted.
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The only thing exposed on this thread is inadequate and unintelligent arguments from the OP.
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As you may already know from your in-laws, the Hmong men carry the clan name. A woman doesn't. So, a woman cannot represent a clan. She has two with her, of course: her biological clan and her husband's clan. But her father or brother represents her biological clan; her husband or his father represent her husband's clan. She's really aced out.
That's the traditional way. Today, I think women should be able to be on the Council and represent a particular clan. Just a matter of respect for all three genders--male, female, and gay.
Which clan will the woman represent? Her husband's? Certainly not. What happens if she divorces? Her father's clan? Certainly not, if she is married into another clan.
You guys and gals blow this 18 Xeem out of proportion. That's the real problem right there. By accusing them to have political agenda, many of you do the same thing by trying to put your own cause into it (like pulling the gender disparity card). 18 Xeem is nothing more than a collection of representative s from the recognized clans. They establish standards across the board so that in the event cases escalate to the American court system, the non-Hmong legal system has something to go by in their rulings. Since it's expected that each Hmong person is going to have their own version (normally the one that plays to his/her advantage), the American courts need somewhat of a guidebook for lack of a better term.
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Who?
*hint*
She lives in Sheboygan
:-X
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*hint*
She lives in Sheboygan
:-X
I remember when there was talk about voting her in.
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Which clan will the woman represent? Her husband's? Certainly not. What happens if she divorces? Her father's clan? Certainly not, if she is married into another clan.
You guys and gals blow this 18 Xeem out of proportion. That's the real problem right there. By accusing them to have political agenda, many of you do the same thing by trying to put your own cause into it (like pulling the gender disparity card). 18 Xeem is nothing more than a collection of representative s from the recognized clans. They establish standards across the board so that in the event cases escalate to the American court system, the non-Hmong legal system has something to go by in their rulings. Since it's expected that each Hmong person is going to have their own version (normally the one that plays to his/her advantage), the American courts need somewhat of a guidebook for lack of a better term.
You are only as strong as your weakest link.
18 Xeem is only as smart as its dumbest rule...and there are plenty. I applaud them for their ideology. Their execution and application are a complete failure. If I was a better human being, I would advised them of their near-sidedness. I would also volunteer to help polish some of their rough policies. Unfortunate, I am a horrible person whose only happiness comes from ridiculing idiotic organizations. Pray for me; maybe one day I will be the change that you've hoped for me.
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See, this is what you forget. You're thinking too selfishly here. Think about the people that are not as educated as you are. The people that don't know how to exercise their civil rights or know american laws/regulations. They will turn to 18 counsel and be exploited under it's ignorance.
Any educated person will never use Hmong 18 counsel as a solution. Only people with lower education. This is not to put those people down. It is our duty to make it an awareness and that 18 counsel should not exploit these people. They should assist them as intended.
If not for 18 Xeem to help these less than average intelligent Hmong folks then who else? The educated ones? Where are they to be found? Go ahead and make people aware but where is your alternative?
I don't say that as to support 18 Xeem. I say it because you have provided nothing else so you aren't a solution either for people that do have problems.
You see, there are so many educated individuals giving their opinions but at the same time none of them have better solutions. Not only that but they don't even plan to observe their culture so what value is their opinion anyway, know what I mean? It's like complaining about America but you don't even make an effort to show up at town hall meetings and you don't vote.
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You are only as strong as your weakest link.
18 Xeem is only as smart as its dumbest rule...and there are plenty. I applaud them for their ideology. Their execution and application are a complete failure. If I was a better human being, I would advised them of their near-sidedness. I would also volunteer to help polish some of their rough policies. Unfortunate, I am a horrible person whose only happiness comes from ridiculing idiotic organizations. Pray for me; maybe one day I will be the change that you've hoped for me.
Have you ever worked with Hmong people though? You can't apply something that isn't the mentality of the people you serve. This is the biggest reason why organizations are ineffective in our communities. Our people do not understand organizations. We have never functioned that way.
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If not for 18 Xeem to help these less than average intelligent Hmong folks then who else? The educated ones? Where are they to be found? Go ahead and make people aware but where is your alternative?
I don't say that as to support 18 Xeem. I say it because you have provided nothing else so you aren't a solution either for people that do have problems.
You see, there are so many educated individuals giving their opinions but at the same time none of them have better solutions. Not only that but they don't even plan to observe their culture so what value is their opinion anyway, know what I mean? It's like complaining about America but you don't even make an effort to show up at town hall meetings and you don't vote.
I think that this is the second time that I agreed with you (or is this the first)? Whose counting right?
Many people are aware of the mistakes of 18 Xeem. Self-proclaimed educated people do nothing but criticize. I did witness one confrontation. My brother came home last year for a social gathering. He did expressed and pointed out some of the things that could be improved. One of the clan leaders sided with my brother. The other one rudely pointed out the lack of support from college educated people like my brother. He said successful Hmong people must not forget where they come from. They should at least contribute back to the community that raised them. My brother countered by saying that before he gives money away to charity, he must be in alignment with the vision of that organization. My brother's refusal to support financially is because he does not agree with many of the laws they created. He does not want to be linked back to 18 Xeem...at least not in its current form. He did offered suggestions but said that his career is very busy that he cannot do more. Hopefully the elders can voice his concerns when they have another meeting.
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Have you ever worked with Hmong people though? You can't apply something that isn't the mentality of the people you serve. This is the biggest reason why organizations are ineffective in our communities. Our people do not understand organizations. We have never functioned that way.
There are many problems with 18 Xeem. The root of the problem is imbedded in the minds of the elders. Huh, how so? The elders hold grudges for generations. Instead of resolving a solution, they wait until the other clan is at their mercy; then they unleash a history of allegations. In order for forgiveness, that other clan must make amend for what they have done wrong today plus that list of allegations.
Not to lose face, that clan pay their dues today and some of the alleged issues. Now that clan is lurking for a future moment when my clan is at fault. Then this cycle repeats.
Forgiveness is the main problem with Hmong people. 18 Xeem is attempting to address some of those issues; but guess who are in charge: the elders. This is just one of the many short-comings of 18 Xeem. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions~Succubus. The idea is good. The path where 18 Xeem is going is one that only a few will follow.
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There are many problems with 18 Xeem. The root of the problem is imbedded in the minds of the elders. Huh, how so? The elders hold grudges for generations. Instead of resolving a solution, they wait until the other clan is at their mercy; then they unleash a history of allegations. In order for forgiveness, that other clan must make amend for what they have done wrong today plus that list of allegations.
Not to lose face, that clan pay their dues today and some of the alleged issues. Now that clan is lurking for a future moment when my clan is at fault. Then this cycle repeats.
Forgiveness is the main problem with Hmong people. 18 Xeem is attempting to address some of those issues; but guess who are in charge: the elders. This is just one of the many short-comings of 18 Xeem. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions~Succubus. The idea is good. The path where 18 Xeem is going is one that only a few will follow.
And that is why same clan members cannot marry, otherwise each clan will not want to work/be at peace with others. You see, marriage soothes out egos and forms alliances. Without the marriage of different clans, no one would be in check. Think Hmong society is corrupt now? Think about how it would be if all clan leaders told their sons and daughters to marry each other. Now isn't that disgusting?
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And that is why same clan members cannot marry, otherwise each clan will not want to work/be at peace with others. You see, marriage soothes out egos and forms alliances. Without the marriage of different clans, no one would be in check. Think Hmong society is corrupt now? Think about how it would be if all clan leaders told their sons and daughters to marry each other. Now isn't that disgusting?
Why even listen to these old leader when you're making history and re-writting a better future for your generation.
The problem is; young people are still taking these old people seriously- that's what gives them power. With power these old men will always be in control. But they are dying off- and its up to this generation to realise their undoing.
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I do feel for those who are uneducated and/or not well informed with American regulations and laws. They are usually the ones who still follow traditions.
I had a reliable source call Hmong Lao family not too long ago for some advice and they told him he has to pay a one time membership fee of $100.00.
In WI, the 18 Counsel Clan passed a rule that at any domestic incident, the wife/victim must call the 18 Councel Clan prior to calling the police. Yikes!
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I do feel for those who are uneducated and/or not well informed with American regulations and laws. They are usually the ones who still follow traditions.
I had a reliable source call Hmong Lao family not too long ago for some advice and they told him he has to pay a one time membership fee of $100.00.
In WI, the 18 Counsel Clan passed a rule that at any domestic incident, the wife/victim must call the 18 Councel Clan prior to calling the police. Yikes!
Yep, definitely "Yikes!" I hope the victims in that area have more common sense than that...
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There are many problems with 18 Xeem. The root of the problem is imbedded in the minds of the elders. Huh, how so? The elders hold grudges for generations. Instead of resolving a solution, they wait until the other clan is at their mercy; then they unleash a history of allegations. In order for forgiveness, that other clan must make amend for what they have done wrong today plus that list of allegations.
Not to lose face, that clan pay their dues today and some of the alleged issues. Now that clan is lurking for a future moment when my clan is at fault. Then this cycle repeats.
Forgiveness is the main problem with Hmong people. 18 Xeem is attempting to address some of those issues; but guess who are in charge: the elders. This is just one of the many short-comings of 18 Xeem. The road to hell is always paved with good intentions~Succubus. The idea is good. The path where 18 Xeem is going is one that only a few will follow.
The elders do not understand organizations. It's never been the way they operated. They only understand following a respected leader that rose to that position because of embodying trustworthy traits. Reminds me of this foreign-titled movie in the middle east where the government tries to run a democratic election. The only problem is that a good majority of people are going to vote for the guy that is the most threat, since he'll harm them if they don't vote for him. So is it really a fair election? This is how I see the Hmong people and Hmong organizations. It may be with good intentions but the people aren't ready for it and might not ever be.
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Hey I live in Minnesota and I have not been affected by their decisions.
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Hey I live in Minnesota and I have not been affected by their decisions.
It's not where you live. It's the kind of people that will be affected. Uneducated people who don't know American laws. They will turn to 18 counsel for advice/counseling- this is the root of corruptions. Denying hmong community to seek real help- instead they filter and exploit the hmong ignorance.
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What a bunch of ticks and lice. :idiot2:
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It's not where you live. It's the kind of people that will be affected. Uneducated people who don't know American laws. They will turn to 18 counsel for advice/counseling- this is the root of corruptions. Denying hmong community to seek real help- instead they filter and exploit the hmong ignorance.
But where is this real help that you are referring to? Obviously, not all Hmong people agree with the American legal system and often feel short-changed. Thus why 18 Counsel was established.
You don't have the right to criticize 18 Counsel when you, yourself, do not know what the Hmong want either.
That's the problem right there. Many people do not know what the Hmong want. They are only going by what they want and then pushing the whole community to want the same thing.
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Whether you know the law of the land or not, the 18 Clan council was formed by the help of your local authorities. The 18 clan council was formed because Hmong people feel that they are not presented well by American laws. Similarily, the local judiciary and enforcement branches also believe that most crimes related to social issues could be better understood if evaluated within their own ethnic organization. If you feel comfortable going to your local authority to bring a case against your adversary then you have every right to. The 18 clan council is here to help those who need their opinions and construct.
The 18 clan council is also a non-profit organization. They receive very little money from benefactors, donors and whatever money they can get from fund raisers.
People who are quick to call this organizations thicks and lice are the real problem. They aren't the solution that's for sure.
It takes two to tangle. Obviously, no one problem exist without two sides to the story. Whether you believe you are in the right or if you they are in the wrong, you are in some way wrong yourself. Wrong because you are human with human error. If you think you are so right in your own twisted self, then it's better off isolating yourself from everyone else. But because you can't do that either...well, there is a choice to use the 18 Clan Council for free if you are too poor.
Hire a lawyer and you'll find out very quickly that the 18 Clan Council "almost free" service is a great help to those who need them.
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Hmong-Everything,
Sounds like you got issues with 18 Clan Council. if you are too worried that they are making a real killing of getting money from the government then you better think again. If you think they are charging too much...have you ask yourself or put yourself in their shoes. Have you thought about the fact that it takes money to run a business aspect of things, buying office supplies, having phone bills, running errands between disputes etc. Obviously you are a person who has no business insight and one who does not understand what is needed to run a business. Most of the board members are working for free.
Now lets get down to the nitty gritty of things. Do you have a copy of their tax return? How much money do they receive from donors and the government? Do you have numbers to make your case a legitimate one or are you just offended that they won't help for "free-free". We all know that if its a matter of great concern, money will pop out anywhere and everywhere. Last time I was made aware of things, this 18 Clan Council was at the brink of having 0 balance at the bank to run the service that they promise to help the community. They have very little money because no one donates and everyone thinks it should be a totally-free service. And as far as I was made aware, each board member had to chip in money to make ends meet. I must say though, those running 18 Clan Council need financial advise and they need donations. I'm sure if you donate a couple hundred of dollars, they will listen to you though.
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I do not support 18 Xeem, but I do not believe bashing them will do any good. There is a reason for 18 Xeem to be there. If you don't see the reason, go back to learn about your Hmong communities to find out the problems Hmong face these day. At least 18 Xeem is doing something to help Hmong communities. You may disagree with their functions and policies, but at least they have something for those who need it. What about you, the younger Hmong Miskas who can hardly speak a Hmong word? All you can do is come to this PH and fight here like cat and dog. You think you are smart, modernized, and educated, but the fact is you are nobody until your Hmong society is like the rest of the societies out there. If you are truly a breadwinner, why not get yourself involved with Hmong communities and use you knowledge and education to lift your Hmong people for a better life? If you see something that doesn't work, fix it.
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Whether you know the law of the land or not, the 18 Clan council was formed by the help of your local authorities. The 18 clan council was formed because Hmong people feel that they are not presented well by American laws. Similarily, the local judiciary and enforcement branches also believe that most crimes related to social issues could be better understood if evaluated within their own ethnic organization. If you feel comfortable going to your local authority to bring a case against your adversary then you have every right to. The 18 clan council is here to help those who need their opinions and construct.
The 18 clan council is also a non-profit organization. They receive very little money from benefactors, donors and whatever money they can get from fund raisers.
People who are quick to call this organizations thicks and lice are the real problem. They aren't the solution that's for sure.
It takes two to tangle. Obviously, no one problem exist without two sides to the story. Whether you believe you are in the right or if you they are in the wrong, you are in some way wrong yourself. Wrong because you are human with human error. If you think you are so right in your own twisted self, then it's better off isolating yourself from everyone else. But because you can't do that either...well, there is a choice to use the 18 Clan Council for free if you are too poor.
Hire a lawyer and you'll find out very quickly that the 18 Clan Council "almost free" service is a great help to those who need them.
Where the hell is her rebuttal to this statement?
I agree with what's said above.
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I think we need to have some successful stories published so everyone can understand the caliber of Hmong 18 Counsel Clan.
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::) ... :idiot2: ... :2funny:
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Duma please read. (^_~)
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Duma please read. (^_~)
thank you but not my war...
not yet. :2funny:
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Hmong-Everything, I'm starting to wonder why your username say: HmnG-Everything, but you bash about the HmnG in general? Let me guess you resent your HmnG ppl and wish you were born a meka instead but ur paper say to be born a HmnG.
you should go dye ur hair blonde and paint ur skin whyte, Because I'm quite ashame of you. Go get those plastic face and change ur self to whyte ppl. And let's see if they will accept you as one of their owns..Guess you are marry to a whyte dude. I know a lot of HmnG girl's tat are marry to them and all a sudden they forget how they look in the mirror. lol.
Such an EPIC FAIL by HmnG girls of tis generation.
Go have some HmnG Pride...
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Am I the only one who supports Hmong 18 Council? I just don't understand why so many people do not understand the good of the 18 council. 18 council isn't there to punish or mistreat the hmong people. They are a nonprofit based on the will of the hmong people and to further the relationship with other groups and establish the acknowledge between the communities. When ever there is a dispute, you hear and see 18 council? Why, because they are representative of the individual clans and using the Hmong legal system to settle things before out of hand. No one is perfect and if these unpaid activists are willing to put fort the efforts to better the Hmong community then lets give them a chance. 18 council is the fore front of solving domestic disputes and being a leader is not an easy task. They have nothing to gain, but the heart to better the Hmongs. We can say whatever we want about some of these organizations, but we have to respect the 18 clan leaders who are willing to put in their time to try to settle the hmong matter. Remember, we are Hmong and will always be Hmong so no matter what we will need these communities to help us in some way or another. For example, GVP. Some people don't like him because they don't understand him, but you still have to respect him for setting a new direction in history for the Hmong people. We are where we are because of GVP and although some do not agree, he was and still is the man who made Hmong stronger. So don't hate and appreciate.
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Hmong-Everything,
Sounds like you got issues with 18 Clan Council. if you are too worried that they are making a real killing of getting money from the government then you better think again. If you think they are charging too much...have you ask yourself or put yourself in their shoes. Have you thought about the fact that it takes money to run a business aspect of things, buying office supplies, having phone bills, running errands between disputes etc. Obviously you are a person who has no business insight and one who does not understand what is needed to run a business. Most of the board members are working for free.
Now lets get down to the nitty gritty of things. Do you have a copy of their tax return? How much money do they receive from donors and the government? Do you have numbers to make your case a legitimate one or are you just offended that they won't help for "free-free". We all know that if its a matter of great concern, money will pop out anywhere and everywhere. Last time I was made aware of things, this 18 Clan Council was at the brink of having 0 balance at the bank to run the service that they promise to help the community. They have very little money because no one donates and everyone thinks it should be a totally-free service. And as far as I was made aware, each board member had to chip in money to make ends meet. I must say though, those running 18 Clan Council need financial advise and they need donations. I'm sure if you donate a couple hundred of dollars, they will listen to you though.
I just want to quote you on this because I agreed that the organization isn't responsible for the actions of individuals. Just like the NCAA, we Hmongs are a minority and our communities are the only thing that can help. Remember that Hmongs will help Hmongs more likely than Whites. Anyone claiming that 18 council is scamming Hmongs for profit or mistreating people are misinformed and have not met them before. It's more of exaggerating and making some bigger than what it really is.
I don't care to response to Hmong-everything and afterlife because they seem to be the same person or both are delusional enough to see the Hmong pride wipe out of the Hmongs. They seem to forget that the same French missionaries who converted the many hmong families during the French-Indochina war were the same group of people who taxed and murder thousands of Hmongs then to make things worst. They claimed and did ethnic cleansing. The sad part was the death and selling of Hmong children during that era. Do we not know about this era and how sad it was. Thanks for Pa Chia Vue, the revolutionary leader, we manage to fight and show our Hmong spirit. Like the saying by Yang Toua and Cha Chi Meng, our Hmong sons and daughter will rise. Today, I am happy that I am one of his sons who is happy to be Hmong and will forever have the Hmong pride no matter where I live or am. Do you guys have that Pride that no matter what where you live or what you believe in, Hmong pride will always be inside of you. We don't need to act white to be white. We are Hmong and need show others how much we appreciate our culture then they will acknowledge our strength in unity. [sub]www.Hmongpride .com??[/sub] That used to be the good old days
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I think one main reason for the creations of 18 clan was because of stupid pple charging 10,000 for their daughters. It became a never ending cycle because you charge me 10,000 for your daughter, well when your cousin marries my niece we are going to get you back with that 10,000. 18 clan was helpful by creating rules for traditional marriages because it came up with a standard. Whenever I go to a traditional wedding and bride's family follows the 18 clan standard, that Friday night goes by super fast. There's none of that back and fourth negotiation that usually goes on.
18 clan is there to help you if you want their help. If you do not want to follow their rules, who's to say you need to? Go ahead and charge that 10k head price, just know when someone from your side of the family marries the other side they will get your back. You live in America, the only rules you need to follow are theirs.
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Am I the only one who supports Hmong 18 Council? I just don't understand why so many people do not understand the good of the 18 council. 18 council isn't there to punish or mistreat the hmong people. They are a nonprofit based on the will of the hmong people and to further the relationship with other groups and establish the acknowledge between the communities. When ever there is a dispute, you hear and see 18 council? Why, because they are representative of the individual clans and using the Hmong legal system to settle things before out of hand. No one is perfect and if these unpaid activists are willing to put fort the efforts to better the Hmong community then lets give them a chance. 18 council is the fore front of solving domestic disputes and being a leader is not an easy task. They have nothing to gain, but the heart to better the Hmongs. We can say whatever we want about some of these organizations, but we have to respect the 18 clan leaders who are willing to put in their time to try to settle the hmong matter. Remember, we are Hmong and will always be Hmong so no matter what we will need these communities to help us in some way or another. For example, GVP. Some people don't like him because they don't understand him, but you still have to respect him for setting a new direction in history for the Hmong people. We are where we are because of GVP and although some do not agree, he was and still is the man who made Hmong stronger. So don't hate and appreciate.
I agree with you on this. I also agree that if you don't like 18 council then move on.