PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: Surikoo2078 on September 04, 2014, 02:33:02 PM
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My siblings and my dad sat down one day and we talked about our intermediate family members. My dad said that we are chinese married to the Hmong and followed the Hmong people. I am like the 7th generation. Now my question is, why do we have two last names? My mom said Hmong chinese knows the two last names. Can somebody explain this? Serious comments only thanks.
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What are your two last names?
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What are your two last names?
Soung kong. My dad said when the sons get married and have kids, they change their last names to soung but the daughters remain a kong.
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I think the Soung is a sir name?
Soung and kong are the same and it is not to be confused by song.
I think song is xiong? Correct me if I am wrong.
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Soung kong. My dad said when the sons get married and have kids, they change their last names to soung but the daughters remain a kong.
Hmmm, never heard of that as Chinese surname but some names are spelled in several variations. Good luck!
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My siblings and my dad sat down one day and we talked about our intermediate family members. My dad said that we are chinese married to the Hmong and followed the Hmong people. I am like the 7th generation. Now my question is, why do we have two last names? My mom said Hmong chinese knows the two last names. Can somebody explain this? Serious comments only thanks.
How old are your parents? (If you know and do not mind me asking, or telling us?)
THIS (tale), whether true or not, is pretty common among all Hmong actually. (Practically every Hmong clan has one or more of these types of "tales". Even in my clan, there is/are prospects of Chinese-origin. Nothing new about it. *** I am of the "belief" it is only wishful thinking -- like how many US-Hmong born kids nowadays think, or claim they are White/Caucasians.) But if you, or any Hmong for that matter, truly believes they are inherently Chinese then there is a simple "scientific test" that can prove or disprove it. Yeah, go get a "DNA test", and if you have the HAN/Manchu(Chinese) gnome-marker then YES you are Chinese -- that is biologically connected -- not necessarily Chinese. However, do not be disappointed if you are NOT, and that your parents have only told you a "tale" of which they themselves have no substantial PROOF to validate, and is mostly "hearsay=tall tales".
What is known, FACT (scholarships), even nowadays (and this is why SOME Hmong parents/families have Viet, Thai, Lao, and other non-Hmong sons and/or daughters) is that over the 100s-1000s of years of diaspora (mass migration and resettlement) some Hmong have adopted (purchased) non-Hmong kids, being unable to have kids of their own. And YES, some Hmong men and women have even taken non-Hmong spouses, so Chinese spouses is definitely not out of the question. (Ostracized Chinese have been known to lively intimately among the Hmong throughout Chinese history.) Just look around you in America today, there are Hmong marrying White, Black, Green, Purple, Orange, and Polka-dotted-Pinks etc.. Nothing new -- historically or presently. But to say/claim, or believe you are emphatically this and that -- be it Chinese, Viet, Lao, Thai, White/Caucasian or whatever else, just because your great grand parents, even mother or father, married outside of your race is stretching it by MILES. At best, you are a MIXED race person without any genuine, or pure biological gnomes.
Per scholarships (researchers -- Hmong and non-Hmong), practically ALL Hmong last names are Chinese in origin. I am not going to explain/elaborate on this. Do the research yourselves if you truly are interested, and want to know fact from fiction.
Song -- We all know is HA'Mung idiocy in Anglicizing the known Hmong surname Xiong, aka "Xyooj".
Kong -- The "Koo" clan is one of the least popular Hmong surname, in terms of population, which is why they are barely known like Yang, Vue, Vang, Lee, Lor etc..
???Soung??? -- I am clueless of and about it. To my knowledge, there is no such Chinese surname, or have never seen one, especially spelled that way. It is definitely not Hmong -- the better known and popular surnames historically and presently.
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my parents are in their late 50s. Back then I thought song was soung but written it differently. :) . I will research more into this. Going to talk to my other soung.kong brothers and sisters about this. Everybody, thank you for the information and trying to help.
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It's a Korean name. Not sure if it's a surname or not.
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My siblings and my dad sat down one day and we talked about our intermediate family members. My dad said that we are chinese married to the Hmong and followed the Hmong people. I am like the 7th generation. Now my question is, why do we have two last names? My mom said Hmong chinese knows the two last names. Can somebody explain this? Serious comments only thanks.
If your family have an ancestor alter likely you guys might be an ethnic from china that is not Hmong. If your family using cow ;D during funeral service or offering to your ancestors then you are Hmong. Chinese people use only pig and chicken no cow, regard how long your family has been assimilated into Hmong culture.
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O0
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my parents are in their late 50s. Back then I thought song was soung but written it differently. :) . I will research more into this. Going to talk to my other soung.kong brothers and sisters about this. Everybody, thank you for the information and trying to help.
Call me a liar, but if your parents are in their late 50s, let's say 55 -- then they were born in 1959 -- obviously in Loas (or Southeast Asia) and definitely not in China, or even Yunnan, where known Hmong-Chinese people live and have thrived for over 100-1000s years. (I am not going to elaborate/explain this rationale (answer). If you know Southeast Asia, Hmong, and Chinese history/facts, then you'd clearly know what I am talking about.) Grand parents and some elders from various clans I know personally are much-much older than your parents, who were practically young adults and adults in 1959. And as far as I know, having talked to (interviewed) nearly all of them, they barely have any recollection of China (Chinese ancestry) whatsoever except what is commonly spoken of, talked about, and referenced in Hmong culture/customs; that is mainly within funeral rites, and/or tales. So for your parents, who arguably weren't even alive then -- before 1959, to have intimately knowledge of and about their past and ancestry (Chinese origin) is unfathomable. Point is, whatever your parents told you is in essence what I have said before. They are just "tales" of every Hmong imagination, not creditable or factual, that is essentially common-place among all Hmong of every clan. It is just an "affinity" towards the Chinese. Nothing more.
You, or anyone want PROOF, to validate your claims, or reprise my theory (reasonable sound conclusion). Go get a DNA test. End of story.
(Until or outside of the "DNA test", then obviously everyone/anyone (Hmong) who claims to be Chinese, or direct descendants, who clearly are not biological born, raised, and is Chinese, then THEY are just full of "BS".)
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If your family have an 1. ancestor alter likely you guys might be an ethnic from china that is not Hmong. If your family using cow ;D during funeral service or offering to your ancestors then you are Hmong. 2. Chinese people use only pig and chicken no cow, regard how long your family has been assimilated into Hmong culture.
Not completely true, and is mainly ALL speculative based on generalization and nearsighted observation.
1. My immediate family, and relatives (in-laws) -- practically ALL Hmong, have/has NO "ancestor alter" whatsoever. We all are Hmong to our knowledge. Not a non-Hmong ethnic from China. (A shaman's alter IS NOT an "ancestor alter".)
2. The Chinese, who arguably are exclusively comprised of ethnic Han and Manchu, do not universally practice any livestock sacrificial-based religion; be it a chicken, pig, or cattle. Some would argue they do not period. The closest practice would be Taoism, which is a very secular minute population of the Chinese -- heavily criticized and even ostracized -- yet livestock is rarely if ever used, as they mainly use charms (spells), talismans, papal/money offerings/gifts, and enchanted incantations.
At least you tried eh?
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Not completely true, and is mainly ALL speculative based on generalization and nearsighted observation.
1. My immediate family, and relatives (in-laws) -- practically ALL Hmong, have/has NO "ancestor alter" whatsoever. We all are Hmong to our knowledge. Not a non-Hmong ethnic from China. (A shaman's alter IS NOT an "ancestor alter".)
2. The Chinese, who arguably are exclusively comprised of ethnic Han and Manchu, do not universally practice any livestock sacrificial-based religion; be it a chicken, pig, or cattle. Some would argue they do not period. The closest practice would be Taoism, which is a very secular minute population of the Chinese -- heavily criticized and even ostracized -- yet livestock is rarely if ever used, as they mainly use charms (spells), talismans, papal/money offerings/gifts, and enchanted incantations.
At least you tried eh?
Some vang families had ancestor alter.
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Some vang families had ancestor alter.
Is CALLED what exactly -- in Hmong or English? Though preferably in "Hmong" so I can confirm, validate, and research (ask the elders) of and about it.
If you do not know what it is called, then describe it. How big is it? Where is it setup? What items; ornaments, accessories, heirlooms etc. are placed there and in what fashion? What time of the year, or years, is it erected and by whom -- household head, or an elder? And during what occasion, ceremony, or ritual?
(Again, a shaman's alter, no matter how small or plane, or HUGE and EXTRAVAGANT "IS NOT" -- repeat, "IS NOT" -- an, or any ancestral alter whatsoever. Period.)
(Additionally, the "Xwm Kab" -- the "gold and silver paper-money with chicken feathers on them" -- hanging in nearly EVERY Hmong's house, "IS NOT", -- repeat "IS NOT" -- an, or any ancestral alter whatsoever either. Period.)
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@ chidorix0x: I do agree with you that it's tales that has been passed down from generation to generation with no known fact until proven, like getting a DNA. Don't get me wrong either. My family and I love to be Hmong. It's just interesting to dig deeper to know where my ancestors came from (now that "Soung" is unknown besides "kong/koo").
My question is, does anybody know their history of their two surnames?
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@ chidorix0x: I do agree with you that it's tales that has been passed down from generation to generation with no known fact until proven, like getting a DNA. Don't get me wrong either. My family and I love to be Hmong. It's just interesting to dig deeper to know where my ancestors came from (now that "Soung" is unknown besides "kong/koo").
My question is, does anybody know their history of their two surnames?
Based on what little (arguably a lot in general) from what I do know (have researched) regarding known and documented historically and to-date scholarships of Hmong surnames (clans) and Chinese-centric surnames, the "Soung" surname is NOTHING but a re-imagining (late 20th century to 21st century) of "Xyooj"; exactly like "Song". That is pretty obvious. (At least to me, it is!) Take away the "U" and it screams "Song", of which there is no such surname/clan in Hmong, or Chinese, inherently except re-imaginings etc.. (And "NO", the XiongNu, or "Soung" if anyone wants to try and STRETCH it, are not Chinese, per Disney's Mulan animation and factual Chinese historical records. The XiongNu, were in fact, foreign invaders that the Chinese eventually eradicated into extinction 1000s of years ago. True, some XiongNu MIXED-bred descendants may have survived and likely wer assimilated (enslaved) into the Chinese populace -- but not pure XiongNu.)
Let me be frank, blunt, and brutally "honest"; however, do not let this discourage you, Surikoo2078, or anyone else from researching your root (ancestry) with due diligence. And hopefully your/anyone else's "research" is more grounded in sound scholarships versus hear-say "tales" from parents, grandparents, or even great grandparents -- especially if it (the "tales") cannot be validated whatsoever, as there are a lot of Hmong "tales" of every imagination nowadays. So again, I am of the "belief" that the "Soung" surname is equivalent to all the RE-IMAGINED Ha'Mung surnames the likes of "Thor, King, Wang/Vaungh, Lord/Lowd, Vu/Wu, Yan, LyFong, BliaLor, Li/Ly, Cha/Chanetc.. And of course "Song", and/or "Soung" too. That is my honest opinion/conclusion -- per my own personal knowledge-base and amateurish scholarly research -- based on both the Hmong community and Western academia. Before all the HA'Mung re-imaginings, the exclusive, better-known (inherent), and more/most popular Hmong surname (clans) are, were, and in fact the 18-Hmong Clan surnames (clans); Xiong, Vang, Yang, Lee, Vue, Lor, Kong, Chang, Kue, Thao etc.. That is fact.
Yes, I know the exact history of both my family surnames (clans); that of my mother and father. Both clan have laid claims to Chinese-ancestry/descendants too. But I know that is just "tales" -- just your basic Hmong affinity with the Chinese.
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Is there a group of Hmong who claim their great grand mother was a monkey? I guess the stories are difficult to verify.
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Is there a group of Hmong who claim their great grand mother was a monkey? I guess the stories are difficult to verify.
Actually, there is! NO JOKE!
(Why don't you go and find out (research it) and come back and tell us. NO JOKE! )
Hint: It is one of the Hmong clan that has this very fascinating "folklore" of/about their "mother" (or ancestor/great grandmother) being a monkey (ape). (Of course they will not openly admit it, but that is their "folklore", whether they will admit it or not -- fact or fiction. Some, of this clan, may not even know their own ancestry -- "origin/ancestry folklore". Most Hmong, namely seasoned elders, all know this "folklore" quite well though.) I could tell the "tale", but then I'd be accused of lying, discriminating, and making up nonsense, so go and see if you can get it directly from the "horse's mouth" -- the specific clan. Good luck!
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Actually, there is! NO JOKE!
(Why don't you go and find out (research it) and come back and tell us. NO JOKE! )
Hint: It is one of the Hmong clan that has this very fascinating "folklore" of/about their "mother" (or ancestor/great grandmother) being a monkey (ape). (Of course they will not openly admit it, but that is their "folklore", whether they will admit it or not -- fact or fiction. Some, of this clan, may not even know their own ancestry -- "origin/ancestry folklore". Most Hmong, namely seasoned elders, all know this "folklore" quite well though.) I could tell the "tale", but then I'd be accused of lying, discriminating, and making up nonsense, so go and see if you can get it directly from the "horse's mouth" -- the specific clan. Good luck!
I guess this one isn't very well known to some because, at least to my knowledge, the clan isn't exactly throwing it out there. I guess those who do know, knows and those who don't know, won't know. At least not from me, I won't be throwing the name of the clan out there anytime soon.
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I guess this one isn't very well known to some because, at least to my knowledge, the clan isn't exactly throwing it out there. I guess those who do know, knows and those who don't know, won't know. At least not from me, I won't be throwing the name of the clan out there anytime soon.
True, because no one (clan) wants to admit to some/any of their shame, guilt, or idiosyncrasies/oddities. They prefer it to go the way of the "dinosaurs" -- become extinct, and nothing but a lost memory.
Most, especially US-Hmong (new gens), has absolutely no clue/knowledge of such things period whatsoever. In time, these types of Hmong-lore (tales/folklore -- possibly even truths) will be deemed "fabricated", or tall tales (made up), when in fact historically they were pretty common everyday knowledge (insight). That is not to say they were undeniably true, but more so well-known and common knowledge among practically every Hmong throughout the Hmong community. (It is such a shame that within the next 100 years, or less, US-Hmong will believe, or claim they are Americans (White Caucasians) -- LOL! Some ignorant US-Hmong are even making that very claim nowadays -- LMAO!)