PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: NeejYagHawj on September 17, 2015, 10:08:23 AM
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to younger generation,
i am old and dying. ask me anything regarding hmong religion and cultural practices (and maybe even the controversial hmong religion) when you have the chance--and i will give you answers. I will be in here for as long as i can.
Do not be offended by the topic...i read these posts...and my god...you guys need help...ALOT!
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Why are you dying?
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old age...
any questions regarding what i asked?
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Yag, or yaweh (I'm assuming you're him because I remember the writing style), and if so, I'm glad to see you again.
Can you list and explain the various spirits which protect your house or give blessing/fortune to you, such as the Xwmkab? Be thorough, please.
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Hais txog lub npe rau Hmoob tus God,,, What is his proper name?
TswvNtuj, YawmSaub, Fuabtais Ntuj, others,, are they all one and the same? If not, explain the differences between them and the hierarchy.
I would like to compare the definition(s) with some elders who I speak to. I just want to clarify, and nothing more than that, for now.
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yeej koob,
good question....
1. protective spirits of the house
dab rooj txag, qhov cub, qhov txo, qhov rooj, ntuj dab (the main spirit pillar of the house), xwm kab, plag xua (each of them has a specific duty)
protective spirits from outside
dead ancestors (such as mother/father), kiab yeeb (guan yin, nkawm niam txiv, dab niam txiv xa, etc), xeeb tebchaws (also included are dead ancestors), tswv ntuj, yawm zaj, yawm xob, nkauj yaj yuam, nraug yaj yig, nkauj hnub nraug hli (sab vaj tim tswv kab 4ceg kaum ntuj)
keep in mind, per belief, these entities could also harm you if you do not respect them.
as for the 2nd question. tswv ntuj, tswv theeb, yawmsaub etc...are all "titles." they are not names. tswv ntuj was invented by mong in reference to the lord of everything (i have a feeling it was from christianity). tswv theeb was a copied term borrowed from christiniaty by the chinese in early 1900s; and since hmong and chinese are so close, mong began using the term "tswv theeb" as a name too.
yawmsaub, in my opinion, was also a borrowed term from missionaries back in 1750, after the first war of the last 3 wars between mong/chinese. at that time, missionaries were very eagered to help out the hmong after they got crushed. although samule pollock had the most influence on the hmong (and he helped created the tabtiab alphabets if i am not mistaken), there were earlier missionaries who, i'm sure, had some influences on the hmong "religious" system since that time.
if you think about it, hmong (1750) just lost the war. it was a this time that mong began their first wave toward vietnam. those who remained went through very hard time--ntuj kawg xubzeb teb kawg xub ntoo..NTUJ TEB TAAG QUAS NCUA...hince lug txaj is created at that time. anyway, missionaries took advantage of this and influenced the mong--promising a savior (christ). out txiv xaiv, nkauj, qeej, etc were all "bettered" during this time too.
"ntxwj nyoog, txiv tuj iab/daw" is purely a bible influence, used during nkauj and txiv xaiv. "dej kub hlab, dej kub npau" is clearly a qeej song influenced by the bible and missionaries.
going back to yawmsaub (a title), i believe it is also a bible versioin from "yaweh, yashaw, yeshua, yahovah, etc." the true name of jeuss is "yeshua," which is very similar to yawmsaub.
the only--seem to be--god that mong has is Niam laj sab, txiv sab sua (a copy by the ultimate chinese god...SHANGDI). some hmong call it saab tim or laajsabtim. but since it is after a chinese god, some call it txiv saab sua too. note: these names only exist in old matriamonial songs and qhuab ke.
more later
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Awesome. Please continue.
So another topic of controversy: white Hmong - why they call Mong, green Hmong. Mong then call themselves Mong leeg. We hear lots of versions and takes on it and lots of literary takes on it as well.
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Regarding the identication of a mong....
1. last name
2. clothing
3. dialects
4. location
dont confuse these 4 things when we say "he is moob leeg" or "nwg yog moob dlawb" or he is a vang/her/thao, etc.
1. we all know what last names are. actually, our last names are not really our clan names at all. the word xeem is actually 'xeev" or "province." this method of separating the mong was very efficient. when chinese divided the mong into groups...we were dispersed into "provinces" or "xeev" in hmong. each province is govern by a governor name "ho, yang, lee, etc". over time, we adopted these governor as our last name...by saying "kuv yog moob yaj"...but the actual meaning is "i am from the province of yang". example...i am was from the "xeev" of "Lee"..then i am hmong Lee.
the true mong clan names are "her = dluag, moua = zaag, thao = dlub, etc". also, our word for "clan" is "qhua". i am moob hawj (meaning i am from the province of "HO", but "KUV YOG QHUA DLUAG"...or i am from clan dluag. with this said--and the sad thing is--even if i am qhua dluag, and if were to live in the xeev Lee, then kuv yog moob lee lawm. do you see the problem and why we are so confused now? there were cases (i am sure) that two blood related brothers, one living in different xeev...so they eventually have different "xeem."
2. as for clothing...the re are moob dlub, moob dlawb...moob paj, moob xia, etc. these terms refer to the color of clothing that mong wear. do not confuse these terms with the "dialect" that people speak. a moob dlawb (referring to the clothing) may use the "leeg (dialect....as we know it today)" all his/her life, and still be called moob dlawb (referring to clothing).
3. location: this is the confusing part. keep in mind, mong were divided into groups by the chinese. over time, chinese lable mong as "moob leeg, moob peg, moob sib, etc.." in these cases, we are referring to locations. peg = north, leeg (laaj) is south, and sib (xib) is west.
with this said, a moob dlawb (referring to clothing) can be called a moob sib just because he/she lives (or poob zoo) in the west with the moob sib. a moob dlawb (referring to clothing) can live with moob leeg all his/her life, and speaks the dialect of those people, and still can be moob dlawb.
do you see how confusing this is? this is why the elders are so lost in telling the truth. here is an example. moob leeg moved from china first into vietnam around 1750. we all know that. the elders agreed with this. most elders would say that moob leeg refers to the "green" dialect, and that moob leeg went south first. if this is the case, then how come my family reached moospheeb in 1850...and there were MOOB DLAWB THERE ALREADY? the fact is, there were some moob dlawb (referring to both clothing and dialect) living in souther china at that time...and they moved south when they had the chance. it does not mean these white mong family were moob leeg.
4. dialect. this is where it gets really confusing. because of separation enforced upon mong, we begin to talk differently. if you really think about it, there is no such thing as "dialect" anymore. the moog leeg of china speaks both white/leeg together. the leeg of southern laos speaks differently from the leeg of northern laos. some white who lives with the western group speaks both white and leeg together. some moob leeg say 'moog kev" while other says "moog kiv"...some say nyaj and others say nyiaj, similar to the white dialects. so it seems dialects depends on location, and not weahter you wear white, black, or blue clothing.
more later
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
NeejYagHawj's rhetoric, at least shows he/she IS NOT a ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'idiotic HA'Mung ignoramus regarding Hmong/Mong culture etc..
That said, his/her rhetoric laced in and peppered with missionary/Christianity anectdotes is ::)/ :idiot2: -- as it is a known (scholarly FACT) that NOT ALL Hmong/Mong were directly and/or indirectly influenced, conned, and brainwashed by the White Slave at the beck and call of their Easter Bunny savior/messiah to know, create, and have all those titles, names, and dignitaries in Hmong culture, belief, and customs/ceremonial practices ... KEKEKE ... >:D (If that were true, Ntxwj Nyoog would have been called "Dev-Vaum" ... ::) And Nkauj Iab Nraug Oo would have been called "As-dees & Iv-vam" ... kekeke ... :idiot2:)
VillainousHero,
Mong Leeg, in the Hmong/Mong nomenclature (or grouping/subgroup), NEVER EXISTED! It was a clever diversion, segregation, and/or SHAMEFUL renouncement of their -- the Green Hmong/Mong cannibalistic inheritance, ancestry, past, and/or origin. Mong Leeg by all account came into being (name that is) in SEAsia during Hmong/Mong's plight out of China. Mong Leeg IS IN FACT (technically and historically) Green Hmong/Mong, period. (Basically it is like a "Black" person who refuses to be called a "niGGa" ... KEKEKE ... :2funny:)
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
NeejYagHawj <--- clearly a Moob Leeg (bet he/she claims NO alignment with Green Hmong whatsoever), kekeke, with its Leeg superlatives ... KEKEKE ... ::)/ :idiot2:
Whatever this HA'Mung Leeg is spewing can easily be amended with a little nonchalant research -- academically and within/throughout the Hmong/Mong community worldwide ... kekeke ... O0
*** Some of you, like you NeejYagHawj, really have no "shame" in posturing what you think, or believe is definitive Hmong/Mong scholarships: facts, history, origin, truths, beliefs etc. ... ::)/ :idiot2: Whatever you have spewed CAN EASILY be reprised, rectified, and DISPROVED with sound research, but leave it to ha'ignorant ha'gullible ha'idiotic HA'Mung (here and where ever) to grovel at your feet as if you were preaching the Holy Gospel to the choir ... KEKEKE ... :knuppel2:.)
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1. protective spirits of the house
dab rooj txag, qhov cub, qhov txo, qhov rooj, ntuj dab (the main spirit pillar of the house), xwm kab, plag xua (each of them has a specific duty)
protective spirits from outside
dead ancestors (such as mother/father), kiab yeeb (guan yin, nkawm niam txiv, dab niam txiv xa, etc), xeeb tebchaws (also included are dead ancestors), tswv ntuj, yawm zaj, yawm xob, nkauj yaj yuam, nraug yaj yig, nkauj hnub nraug hli (sab vaj tim tswv kab 4ceg kaum ntuj)
Yag, thanks. Please continue when you have time.
Can you elaborate on these specific spirits' roles or tasks? For instance, what exactly does a dab rooj txag do for you, etc?
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
NeejYagHawj <--- clearly a Moob Leeg (bet he/she claims NO alignment with Green Hmong whatsoever), kekeke, with its Leeg superlatives ... KEKEKE ... ::)/ :idiot2:
Whatever this HA'Mung Leeg is spewing can easily be amended with a little nonchalant research -- academically and within/throughout the Hmong/Mong community worldwide ... kekeke ... O0
*** Some of you, like you NeejYagHawj, really have no "shame" in posturing what you think, or believe is definitive Hmong/Mong scholarships: facts, history, origin, truths, beliefs etc. ... ::)/ :idiot2: Whatever you have spewed CAN EASILY be reprised, rectified, and DISPROVED with sound research, but leave it to ha'ignorant ha'gullible ha'idiotic HA'Mung (here and where ever) to grovel at your feet as if you were preaching the Holy Gospel to the choir ... KEKEKE ... :knuppel2:.)
ChidoriX0X,
Can you please read over the list of the protective spirits Yag posted and see if you agree or disagree on the accuracy? If agree, then just leave it. If not, then elaborate. Or if there are any missing then name them.
And please let's just stay focus in this thread. Leave the H'mung comments for later. No insult intended towards you here. I just want us not to get distracted for the time being, that's all.
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Remember to cite sources otherwise, I'm not buying your book. :2funny:
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no one is selling books...becaus e there is no books to be sold. these things are from stories of the elders...and from personal observatoin... not from scholars who actually do not know what they are talking about. it is sad that if the first author is wrong, then whoever cites the first author will also be wrong.
what i talk about are basic knowledge of mong (not from mistakes of assumptions)...do you know remember i said "oh my god...you need help" on my first thread?
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no one is selling books...becaus e there is no books to be sold. these things are from stories of the elders...and from personal observatoin... not from scholars who actually do not know what they are talking about. it is sad that if the first author is wrong, then whoever cites the first author will also be wrong.
what i talk about are basic knowledge of mong (not from mistakes of assumptions)...do you know remember i said "oh my god...you need help" on my first thread?
continue to tell or sell your story at will.
happy are those who take your stories and making it their mantra. :2funny:
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ChidoriX0X,
Can you please read over the list of the protective spirits Yag posted and see if you agree or disagree on the accuracy? If agree, then just leave it. If not, then elaborate. Or if there are any missing then name them.
And please let's just stay focus in this thread. Leave the H'mung comments for later. No insult intended towards you here. I just want us not to get distracted for the time being, that's all.
... kekeke ... :2funny:
See how ha'ignorant, ha'gullible, and ha'naive most/ALL of you HA'Mung are (is and have become -- being so whitewashed/skewled in Angleesh only ... :idiot2:/ ::)) ... KEKEKE ... >:D
FYI, I always read through most/ALL posts/comments before I reply (rectify/amend) the OP's rhetoric (babbling) ... kekeke ... O0/ 8) Y do u think I recommended (advised) that anyone (esp. all of you HA'Mung who truly cares to know the truth vesus hearsay -- being inherent ignoramus, and/or so gullible at the first utter of plausible "BS") whether by me, Yag, or any self-proclaimed Hmong/Mong/HA'Mung brainchild ... KEKEKE ... :D ... do a LITTLE or A LOT of fact-finding yourself. DUH! Dolt!
As for your question, regarding Yag's list: " dab rooj txag, qhov cub, qhov txo, qhov rooj, ntuj dab (the main spirit pillar of the house), xwm kab, plag xua (each of them has a specific duty) ", this Neanderthal was just RATTLLING off everyday Hmong/Mong verbiage to sound endowed ( :idiot2:/ ::)) ... kekeke ... >:D
Ha'HINT:
There is/are NO SUCH thing as " dab rooj txag, qhov cub, qhov txo, qhov rooj, ntuj dab ..." in terms of spirituality (NO explanation warranted) -- that is pure "BS". Pretty sure this POSER was trying to refer to "Npua Dab Roog", "Ncej Dab Qhua", "Dab Rooj Txua Rooj Tag", and a few others I forget, MOST of which are NO LONGER practiced/practical today in the Modern Era ... kekeke ... O0
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Yag and others, nej txhob xiam sijhawm tham nrog niag Cobtsib Nyablaj zaum-thaj-tso-quav ntawd od. Nws twb tsis yog Hmoob thiab nws txhob txwm thab kom nej npautaws xwb.
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no one is selling books...becaus e there is no books to be sold. these things are from stories of the elders...and from personal observatoin...not from scholars who actually do not know what they are talking about. it is sad that if the first author is wrong, then whoever cites the first author will also be wrong.
what i talk about are basic knowledge of mong (not from mistakes of assumptions)...do you know remember i said "oh my god...you need help" on my first thread?
... kekeke ... :2funny: ... KEKEKE ... :idiot2:/ ::) ... :knuppel2:
The POSER's true colors are blaring now ... kekeke ... >:D
FACT 1:
YES, there are plenty of scholarships (aka BOOKS) by renowned researchers (Hmong and non-Hmong alike) regarding most/ALL matters Hmong -- specifically its culture, customs, and rituals. (As a matter of FACT, I own several of them ... KEKEKE ... O0) *** We are in fact in the process of writing one, coming soon, for most/ALL of you ha'primitive ha'ignorant HA'Mung ... kekeke ... 8)
FACT 2:
Basic knowledge of Mong EQUALS "BS", more often than not, ... kekeke ... :idiot2:
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i think he's reliving pms...it's weird, i never knew that some boys go through that.
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i think he's reliving pms...it's weird, i never knew that some boys go through that.
What is weird is that you got spot checked. You said no books but dixwalrus said there are plenty of books. :2funny:
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ChidoriX0X,
Koj yog ib tug paub peb Hmoob tej kevaci ces koj qhia rau peb xwb lod mad. Ibyam li ib tug tij qhia rau tus kwv es tsis paub qabhau xwb od mog. Yog peb sibceg ces nws ua distraction rau peb lawm nad. Kuv tsuas hais zoo zoo li no xwb od. Txhob chim mad. Kuv xav paub xav kawm xwb nad.
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whatever books he's referring to, i do not know....
as for that pms guy, i doubt he knows anything...i'm sure he read a few books like everyone else...but so far, i see no sign of knowledge about hmoob kev cai...
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is it customary to post those "laughing" cartoon things after a sentence in here?
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ChidoriX0X,
Koj yog ib tug paub peb Hmoob tej kevaci ces koj qhia rau peb xwb lod mad. Ibyam li ib tug tij qhia rau tus kwv es tsis paub qabhau xwb od mog. Yog peb sibceg ces nws ua distraction rau peb lawm nad. Kuv tsuas hais zoo zoo li no xwb od. Txhob chim mad. Kuv xav paub xav kawm xwb nad.
... kekeke ... :2funny:
Yog muaj tseeb lid koj cov lus koj tau HAIS ces kuj mus kawm xwb -- txhob mloog mloog/ntseeg ntseeg lus huab lus cua lus ntaug lus xaiv. Tsis tas kuv los tus ub tus nod tham pem rau koj pob ntseg os nawb. Cov txwj laus neeg muaj coob ntau tus. (How do you think I learned -- in addition to the scholarships I read/researched?) Hmoob piv txwv tias, "Cuag lid tshuab raj rau twm pob ntseg xwb." (If that is your learning methodology then more power to ya ... KEKEKE ... :2funny:) Nyaj koj nkag siab lo lus ntawd yom ... KEKEKE ... >:D
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chi..
putting kiddish, pms attitude away...
can you shed some light on why peb ho laig xeeb tebchaws and why it is important to a hmong man?
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Yog muaj tseeb lid koj cov lus koj tau HAIS ces kuj mus kawm xwb -- txhob mloog mloog/ntseeg ntseeg lus huab lus cua lus ntaug lus xaiv. Tsis tas kuv los tus ub tus nod tham pem rau koj pob ntseg os nawb. Cov txwj laus neeg muaj coob ntau tus. (How do you think I learned -- in addition to the scholarships I read/researched?) Hmoob piv txwv tias, "Cuag lid tshuab raj rau twm pob ntseg xwb." (If that is your learning methodology then more power to ya ... KEKEKE ... :2funny:) Nyaj koj nkag siab lo lus ntawd yom ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Tshuab raj rau twm pob ntseg tso mad,,, tshuab tas es twm tsis txais tau ua niag nyuj nyam xwb mad koj mad tshev (Moob Leeg lolus) twm los tau nawb.
Kuv tus kheej mas kuv yeej nrog cov laus tham lawm thiab od. Tiamsis kuv tsuas xav muab compare lawv cov lus thiab nej cov lus uake seb puas txawv qhov twg. Yog qhov twg muaj txawv lossis contradiction nod ces peb yuav tsum muab los sablaj uake thiab nrhiav txoj kev los kho nws kom sibhaum thiaj zoo,,, es tawvdawb lossis cov Hmongkey ntseeg Tshawj thiaj tsis muaj lus lo tojxub peb haistias peb muaj tej niag mistakes/contradictions ualuaj nyob hauv peb tej Kevcai nod xwb od mog.
Peb Hmoob cov nkagsiab nod tsis pab cawm peb Hmoob tug sis peb ciali yuav swb rau tawvdawd cov dabneeg Yesxus li laiv. Peb cov Hmoob es tseem muaj kev nco txog peb qhov national duty thiab hlub peb haiv sis yuav tsum sibpab nrhiav tswyim nawb... Kuv tsuas hais li nod xwb.
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Yag,
Such a petty question. But whatever yo. It is important to a Hmong man (if he is getting married via tradition), kom mus dawb rov hu -- kom tau ntoj tau thuv, simply put. Other than that, it is whatever you want it to be (as there is/are NOT any other application/purpose).
Koob13,
Koj cov lus tsis yog koj xwb thiab xav tau los sis xav kom muaj kev haum xeeb rau peb haiv Hmoob nrog lwm haiv. Tiam sis kuv tsuas teb qhia koj me me lid nod xwb. Lo lus nod yog koj tau nrog cov laus tham lid koj tau hais ces koj yeej paub zoo lawm. Hmoob yeej piv txwv ib lo lus tias, "Ib roob teb ib yam txwj." Vim peb haiv Hmoob tsis swm ib tug cai (standardizatio n). Koj ua koj kuv ua kuv -- raws lid yus kawm, paub, thiab nyiam xwb. Twb tsis kam hloov, kho, thiab sib txhawb lid rau ib txoj cai/standard. Thaum zoo lid nod lawm ces tsis hais koj, kuv, los leej twg -- yeej pab/kho tsis tau lawm nawb. Qhov kuv pom los sis niaj hnub nod tshwm sim zuj zus ces yog ua HA'Mung lawm xwb ... kekeke ... :idiot2:/ ::) ... KEKEKE ... >:D Tsis yog hais dag nawb. Yeej muaj tseeb lid ntawd lawm. Tom ntej nod mus ces cov HA'Mung yuav yog cov coob ov. Hos cov Hmoob/Moob ces yuav tu noob zuj zus ... kekeke ... :-X
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did you even read the question?
i guess the other guy is wrong about you. i really thought you know whatyou're talking about.
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Yag,
U admitted yourself, "U only have BASIC knowledge." -- via sideline observation most likely; thus no one should expect u comprehend, much less have formal knowledge/insight like those who actually have trained/apprenticed, researched (academically and nrog cov txwj laus neeg tham/kawm/qhia), plus practice the culture/customs/rites on a regular basis ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Don't tell me/us, you "laig xeeb tebchaws" religiously like Muslims praying 5X daily ... kekeke ... :idiot2:/ ::)
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chi...give it up brother...you're been outwitted and outknowledged. ..
one of this day, when you really want to know why we do it, then i will tell you. but, just so you can better prepared next time..here is a hint...why do we laig mom/dad/x/y/z? and not a rock? a tree? or someone else from another clan....
good night
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Yag,
U really r a POSER u "BASIC knowledge" nincompoop ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Ha'HINT: (Per Yag: ...here is a hint...why do we laig mom/dad/x/y/z? ...)
For the record, in any/ALL Hmong/Mong rites/rituals, no one has ever nor will they ever "laig mom". Even grandmas, great grandmas etc. greater grandmas are insignificant. Epic fail Yag!
Additionally, "laig dad" is only ever done if he has already deceased. And 9/10 times, it IS ONLY done by his biological living sons where applicable (mostly per ceremonial rites).
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are you still at it? it doesn't take much to know you does it?
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yeejkoob,
maybe we will talk at another time regarding the functions of those entities from the perspective of beliefs. i really don't want my words to get dirty by niag loobtswb thiab liab pos muag ntawd na...
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Regarding the identication of a mong....
1. last name
2. clothing
3. dialects
4. location
dont confuse these 4 things when we say "he is moob leeg" or "nwg yog moob dlawb" or he is a vang/her/thao, etc.
1. we all know what last names are. actually, our last names are not really our clan names at all. the word xeem is actually 'xeev" or "province." this method of separating the mong was very efficient. when chinese divided the mong into groups...we were dispersed into "provinces" or "xeev" in hmong. each province is govern by a governor name "ho, yang, lee, etc". over time, we adopted these governor as our last name...by saying "kuv yog moob yaj"...but the actual meaning is "i am from the province of yang". example...i am was from the "xeev" of "Lee"..then i am hmong Lee.
the true mong clan names are "her = dluag, moua = zaag, thao = dlub, etc". also, our word for "clan" is "qhua". i am moob hawj (meaning i am from the province of "HO", but "KUV YOG QHUA DLUAG"...or i am from clan dluag. with this said--and the sad thing is--even if i am qhua dluag, and if were to live in the xeev Lee, then kuv yog moob lee lawm. do you see the problem and why we are so confused now? there were cases (i am sure) that two blood related brothers, one living in different xeev...so they eventually have different "xeem."
2. as for clothing...the re are moob dlub, moob dlawb...moob paj, moob xia, etc. these terms refer to the color of clothing that mong wear. do not confuse these terms with the "dialect" that people speak. a moob dlawb (referring to the clothing) may use the "leeg (dialect....as we know it today)" all his/her life, and still be called moob dlawb (referring to clothing).
3. location: this is the confusing part. keep in mind, mong were divided into groups by the chinese. over time, chinese lable mong as "moob leeg, moob peg, moob sib, etc.." in these cases, we are referring to locations. peg = north, leeg (laaj) is south, and sib (xib) is west.
with this said, a moob dlawb (referring to clothing) can be called a moob sib just because he/she lives (or poob zoo) in the west with the moob sib. a moob dlawb (referring to clothing) can live with moob leeg all his/her life, and speaks the dialect of those people, and still can be moob dlawb.
do you see how confusing this is? this is why the elders are so lost in telling the truth. here is an example. moob leeg moved from china first into vietnam around 1750. we all know that. the elders agreed with this. most elders would say that moob leeg refers to the "green" dialect, and that moob leeg went south first. if this is the case, then how come my family reached moospheeb in 1850...and there were MOOB DLAWB THERE ALREADY? the fact is, there were some moob dlawb (referring to both clothing and dialect) living in souther china at that time...and they moved south when they had the chance. it does not mean these white mong family were moob leeg.
4. dialect. this is where it gets really confusing. because of separation enforced upon mong, we begin to talk differently. if you really think about it, there is no such thing as "dialect" anymore. the moog leeg of china speaks both white/leeg together. the leeg of southern laos speaks differently from the leeg of northern laos. some white who lives with the western group speaks both white and leeg together. some moob leeg say 'moog kev" while other says "moog kiv"...some say nyaj and others say nyiaj, similar to the white dialects. so it seems dialects depends on location, and not weahter you wear white, black, or blue clothing.
more later
This is a very interesting take. I'm not sure what to make of it. This is like the first time I've heard this. It sounds like it was almost done in a very short time and almost like a naming convention like that of some Europeans.
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This is a very interesting take. I'm not sure what to make of it. This is like the first time I've heard this. It sounds like it was almost done in a very short time and almost like a naming convention like that of some Europeans.
... kekeke ... :2funny:
Being a/the ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless HA'Mung who is/are ha'gullible ha'innately, it is only natural that any "BS, fairy tales, nonsense, FIBs" (the likes of Yag, who admitted to having only "BASIC knowledge"), aka NOTHING factual except hearsay and make-it-up as it dolts, will be a first for any of you ha'ignorant HA'Mung ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Ha'HINT:
Gaoly Yang whose Master's/PhD thesis on Hmong/Mong surnames/clans is renowned and accepted by most/ALL Hmong/Mong, intellects, researchers, and laypersons (including ha'ignorant HA'Mung who can read comprehensivel y, hopefully) as the leading/sole authority on Hmong/Mong surnames/clans. (Yes, this universal FACT/scholarship can be CITED/referenced etc..) Not that "BS" that Yag wet dreamed last night while self-urinating in his senior diaper ... kekeke ... ::) Additionally, in the Hmong/Mong origin folklore (Great Flood -- "Nkauj Iab Nraug Oo"), the surname/clan is explicitly told/explained. Again, NOT that "BS" Yag wet dreamed ... KEKEKE ... :idiot2:
Yag's other "BS": dialects, clothing, location and whatever else this POSER wet dreams, are exactly that "buLLz-shiETZzzz" ... kekeke ... :idiot2:/ :knuppel2: (Yes, they all can academically (via scholarships) and socially (via Hmong/Mong/OG testimonies) -- intellectually -- be rectified, amended, and PROVEN to be nothing but wet dreams ... KEKEKE ... >:D)
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yeejkoob,
it is funny how, in today's word, when we say "he is moob dlawb"...then we automatically assume he "speaks" the "white" dialect. this is not the case at all about 100 years ago. Back then, there is no such thing as the "white dialect" because all the dialects were "mixed" depending on locations of where they were and where they came from.
now, on what that loobtswb maggot was referring to (moob ntsuab) as being cannibalism. This is a true labeling. But again, do not assume that Moob ntsuab refers to Moob leeg or those who speaks the "leeg" dialect. Moob ntsuab (referring to clothing) was just a group of people who happened to practice cannibalism..A ND MOST LIKELY A GROUP THAT SPEAKS THE LEEG DIALECT. Over time, started to label these "green (referring to clothing again)" mong as "moob ntsuab (referring to cannibalism). the funny part is, some moob leeg started calling this cannibalistic group as "moob ntsuab" too, separating themselves from the practice. I personally do not know how or when such a practice came about. but, i do know that some "moob dlawb" are part of with too (won't name names...becaus e he is an acquaintence of mine who said that his grandfather was related and living with these moob ntsuab aand that they even practiced it too). BUT...I DO KNOW THAT IN AMERICA, THE LEE CLAN IN SACRAMENTO (COV MOOB LEEG AS WE KNOW IT TODAY) are the true canniabals that we are talking about. however, they do not do it anymore. lawd siv "mojzeeg" as a symbol of their kids being killed and offered lawm xwb (this practice occurs during new year's eve). if you interested in it as a paper, do became freiends with the elders of that clan, and you will get more info on it.
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There's a new book by a fellow Moob, Dr. Long Khang that will help explain Hmong animism:
"HMONG ANIMISM" by LONG KHANG
http://www.xulonpress.com/bookstore/bookdetail.php?PB_ISBN=9781498433655&HC_ISBN= (http://www.xulonpress.com/bookstore/bookdetail.php?PB_ISBN=9781498433655&HC_ISBN=)
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joot,
it is great that he wrote a book...but consider this analogy..lets call my book "christianity from the perspective of a mong"
my 500 page book will be sumarized for you in less than 10 words.
JESUS WAS A BASTARD KID...the end.
do you see how twisted my views are? i am sure long khaab is the same in his christiainty view, applying christianity to hmong religion in ways that are never heard of. don't be fooled by someoen like long khaab and his view
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^^ But have you read it yet though? Don't judge the book yet if you have not read it.
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joot...
trust me...he used "christianity" to argue that hmong religions are the devil. it is what they do. when trying to explain A, you need to explain it from the perspective of an A talking...not from the view of a B.
i am 99% sure that's what he does in his book, primarily due to the fact that the said "from the perspective of a christian." this is why i said from the perspective of a hmong, jesus is just a bastard kid...not god.
of course, i will leave the 1% as room for my bad assumption.
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Answer the simple question: have you read the book? yes or no? Is it too hard to say "NO"?
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????
why is my answer so important to you. am i not right? i'm assuming you read it, and you should already know that what i said is right/wrong....i'm still 99% sure i am right. you can confirm it yourself.
this book is like going to a christain funeral only to hear the preacher preach about nonbelievers going to hell instead of talking about things that are related to "death."
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Because I know for sure you have not read the book. For a minute there, I thought you were a bright person, but now you're just another know it all Hmong person...to assume about something you have not read is foolish....I was simply trying to see if you are an honest person...
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There's a new book by a fellow Moob, Dr. Long Khang that will help explain Hmong animism:
"HMONG ANIMISM" by LONG KHANG
http://www.xulonpress.com/bookstore/bookdetail.php?PB_ISBN=9781498433655&HC_ISBN= (http://www.xulonpress.com/bookstore/bookdetail.php?PB_ISBN=9781498433655&HC_ISBN=)
... kekeke ... :2funny:/ :idiot2:
The synopsis of the book (arguably LKhang him/itself) reads like a re-educated Jew from/within an Auschwitz camp looking down the barrel of a pistol before its supremacist white/crAZZtian overlord, pleading for salvation ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Note, LKhang is a Moob (Mong), who are undeniably the most brainwashed, gullible, and naïve crAZZtian converts/whore-shippers within/throughout the Hmong/Mong-verse historically (presently/perpetually) and globally -- who (adamantly/perversely) reverse-discriminate against their own blood ... :idiot2:/ ::) -- being spoonfed and lead around on a leash by their crAZZtian/white overlords ... KEKEKE ... :o.
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joot...
i already told you i did not and will not read the book because i already "know" what it is about. and it is up to you to tell me whether or not i am wrong. and i also said, i am 99% sure i am right.
where in my words did i show any sign or "smart" or "not smart"? do you have anything else to offer in this topic? if not, then it is best for you to go read again on some other issues.
however, since you are so eagered to talk about this...i will be waiting for you to confirm whether or not ia m wright about my assumpstios regardig that book. i will check with you soon.
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yeejkoob,
it is funny how, in today's word, when we say "he is moob dlawb"...then we automatically assume he "speaks" the "white" dialect. this is not the case at all about 100 years ago. Back then, there is no such thing as the "white dialect" because all the dialects were "mixed" depending on locations of where they were and where they came from.
now, on what that loobtswb maggot was referring to (moob ntsuab) as being cannibalism. This is a true labeling. But again, do not assume that Moob ntsuab refers to Moob leeg or those who speaks the "leeg" dialect. Moob ntsuab (referring to clothing) was just a group of people who happened to practice cannibalism..A ND MOST LIKELY A GROUP THAT SPEAKS THE LEEG DIALECT. Over time, started to label these "green (referring to clothing again)" mong as "moob ntsuab (referring to cannibalism). the funny part is, some moob leeg started calling this cannibalistic group as "moob ntsuab" too, separating themselves from the practice. I personally do not know how or when such a practice came about. but, i do know that some "moob dlawb" are part of with too (won't name names...becaus e he is an acquaintence of mine who said that his grandfather was related and living with these moob ntsuab aand that they even practiced it too). BUT...I DO KNOW THAT IN AMERICA, THE LEE CLAN IN SACRAMENTO (COV MOOB LEEG AS WE KNOW IT TODAY) are the true canniabals that we are talking about. however, they do not do it anymore. lawd siv "mojzeeg" as a symbol of their kids being killed and offered lawm xwb (this practice occurs during new year's eve). if you interested in it as a paper, do became freiends with the elders of that clan, and you will get more info on it.
Wow, so an actual descendent of that. I wonder if part of their belief system had something to do with gaining the spirit power of whomever they consume.
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villian,
i don't think the intention of the practice is for "power." i have not the chance to ask those elders why or how they do it..its kinda taboo to even talk about it with them regarding that practice.
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villian,
i don't think the intention of the practice is for "power." i have not the chance to ask those elders why or how they do it..its kinda taboo to even talk about it with them regarding that practice.
Okay, it is a touchy subject. Even when folklore or fake stories are told about people turning into zombies/vampires or tiger folks/werewolves. Just curious about the reason(s).
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regarding zombies/vampires, etc..
the first "known," recorded of such a thing occured in europe back in 1500 (if my memory is correct). what happened was a man died (unknown to the people that he was stil alive). after a quick funeral, that man was buried. later that night, the man woke up from his coma, feeling dazed and confused. he waalked back to his village, and the people (never seen anything like this) began to say it was the devil's work....they then killed the man again. only, this time, he is dead.
hmong and their stories are very similar. there have been stories of such a thing where the dead actually woke up from their funeral and live again normally. these are the more recent stories. however, hundreds of years ago, hmong had not the knowledge to detect a slow, beating heart. of course, hmong would say such a person is dead--simlar to the story in europe.
also, keep in mind, when mong does not understand something, they would also use dab as the cause. an old crazy person would be called dab if he/she acts differently from the norm. an animal would be called dab if it (as an example) has some kind of virus and acts strangely.
i am sure most of the mong stories are a result of things like this.
yh
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And the hmong became smart... hmoob muab tu tuag coj mus tswm tshav for days in the sun. Seb ciaj los tuag ua ntej coj mus fau. ;D Lol...
Txiv tawv kev thiaj ntau kuam nug hais tias "koj tuag dag los tuag tiag?" :P ;D :2funny:
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... kekeke ... :2funny:
Yog muaj tseeb lid koj cov lus koj tau HAIS ces kuj mus kawm xwb -- txhob mloog mloog/ntseeg ntseeg lus huab lus cua lus ntaug lus xaiv. Tsis tas kuv los tus ub tus nod tham pem rau koj pob ntseg os nawb. Cov txwj laus neeg muaj coob ntau tus. (How do you think I learned -- in addition to the scholarships I read/researched?) Hmoob piv txwv tias, "Cuag lid tshuab raj rau twm pob ntseg xwb." (If that is your learning methodology then more power to ya ... KEKEKE ... :2funny:) Nyaj koj nkag siab lo lus ntawd yom ... KEKEKE ... >:D
:2funny: " los lu tshuab rab rau twm pob ntseg" no tsawg tsawg tu thiab paub xwb.. feem coob cov laus uas born in the 1940s and down thaij paub xwb laib..
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i'm wondering if that funny man knows what a loob tswb is. no i don't mean the animal
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:2funny: " los lu tshuab rab rau twm pob ntseg" no tsawg tsawg tu thiab paub xwb.. feem coob cov laus uas born in the 1940s and down thaij paub xwb laib..
... kekeke ... :2funny:
Cov ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idioctic HA'MUNG mas yeej tsi paub tej lus nod li laud. Lo lus nian/nam haab txiv/iv xwb los xyom puas paub thiab los kuj muaj. Ho cov tseem Hmoob/Moob mas txawm yug kiag nag hmo xwb los tej lus xwb ua cas thiab tsi paub, it is the Hmong / Mong language and vocabulary ... KEKEKE ... >:D
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good job chidldsosrs...
good job...
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NeejYagHawj: For traditional hmong wedding, as a mother of the bride, what gifts must I have prepared for the bride. 2) As a mother of the groom, any gifts I need to prepare for the family of the bride? for the bride?
Also, when the bride is getting ready to leave her parents house and her parents prepared ib lub kawm for the wedding party (groom side). What items go in there?
I wish someone could write a traditional hmong wedding preparation manual from beginning to finish.
That's what i'm wondering for now.
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NeejYagHawj: For traditional hmong wedding, as a mother of the bride, what gifts must I have prepared for the bride. 2) As a mother of the groom, any gifts I need to prepare for the family of the bride? for the bride?
Also, when the bride is getting ready to leave her parents house and her parents prepared ib lub kawm for the wedding party (groom side). What items go in there?
I wish someone could write a traditional hmong wedding preparation manual from beginning to finish.
That's what i'm wondering for now.
... kekeke ... :2funny:/ :D
Foremost, all u ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'idiotic ha'ranting (reverse discrimination) HA'Mung, ha'parents and ha'kids, MUST decide/accept if this is a HA'Mung ha'bride/ha'groom before any pertinent prerequisites and customs need be labored ... KEKEKE ... >:D
ha'NOTHING as the ha'bride/ha'groom will see NO VALUE (significance, vim tej "phij cuam" nod yog Hmoob tee tug xwb ces laws yuav "G K" txog) in/within your gifts etc.. ... kekeke ... :-X
ha'NOTHING (tsis muaj cai ua yam txwv ntawd) ... kekeke ... ???
ha'NOTHING ... (tiam sis yuav tau rov lawd lub kawm nrog cov "matching required chickens/items" xwb ... O0) ... kekeke ... :o
An utter waste vim feem coob ces yog ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless ha'idiotic HA'Mung uas yuav/yeej tsis paub nyeem Ntawv/Lus Hmoob es txawm muab txhais kiag ua Lus Askiv los yeej kawg yog h'aprimitive ha'ignorant ha'clueless HA'Mung lawm xwb -- twb sim/ua dhau lo lawm -- "G VAUJ" ... KEKEKE ... >:D
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Chido, me no understand what you're trying to say because your points are all over the place. But let me add that there's nothing wrong with khoom phij cuam (what I was able to make out of your writing) and it's OK if this is a hmong thing. In fact, we should be proud to have something to call our own vs borrow from others and make it our own unless of course you're not HA'Mung, I understand.
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Chido, me no understand what you're trying to say because your points are all over the place. But let me add that there's nothing wrong with khoom phij cuam (what I was able to make out of your writing) and it's OK if this is a hmong thing. In fact, we should be proud to have something to call our own vs borrow from others and make it our own unless of course you're not HA'Mung, I understand.
... kekeke ... :2funny:/ ::)
Me ha'no ha'expecting DUH-HA'Mung ha'comprendez ha'NOTHING ... KEKEKE ... >:D
U ha'questions??? ME ha'ANSWERED!... kekeke ... O0 ... ha'DUH ... kekeke ... 8)