PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: TheAfterLife on January 29, 2016, 06:49:29 PM
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In translation, it means: Hmoob Siav. What I learned from my uncle, he went to China, traveling on in car to see a Hmong village in China, one of the elders waited for the Chinese to go away before they had their conversation.
On that same time, the Hmong elders say, "Koj yog Hmoob Mej Kuj, puas yog?"
My uncle said, "Aw, yog kawg."
The elder of that village said, "Peb Hmoob nyob tim Tshoob Kuj yog cov Hmoob Siav. Nej yog cov Hmoob Nyoos. Thaum ub mas, peb hmoob ib txwm tuas cov neeg suam. thaum kawg, peb yog cov swb. Suam ua rau peb kom peb xyaw rog tus lawm tus. Vim lis ntawd, peb yog cov Hmoob Siav. Cov Hmoob Nyoos yog cov tsis kam yuav cov suam kev cai. Nej yog cov tawm tsam cov suam; nej yog cov neeg xav kom muaj ywj pheej rau lawm tus yuav. Vim lis ntawd, nej thiaj lis tsis siav baum lis peb. Nej yog cov neeg nyoos nyoos, cov neeg tsis kam siav ib zaug rog peb haiv neeg."
Right when I heard this from my uncle, I realized that Hmoob Swv really means is that they were force to obey under the Han Chinese rule. The ones that went Caub Fab (Rebellion), they fled and didn't melt pot with China is because they didn't want a king who abuse their power and tell them what to do.
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Right when I heard this from my uncle, I realized that Hmoob Swv really means is that they were force to obey under the Han Chinese rule. The ones that went Caub Fab (Rebellion), they fled and didn't melt pot with China is because they didn't want a king who abuse their power and tell them what to do.
If you already knew the answer why did you even bother to ask? ::)
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Well you're even more siav or cooked than those left back in the motherland (currently known as China PRC). Your brain's been infected with Yesxus and you're a great threat to the Hmong cultural survival. It's both funny and sad that you espouse Hmong renaissance but fail to see your own treachery and what it will do to the Hmong people/culture.
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Perhaps in time you, Kesveem Vaj, will come to realize the paradox and change your ways to really help the Hmong people... I'm not holding my breath though. Instead, most likely you'll find a way to justify why you're an idiotic treacherous Christian Hmongkey who champions a foreigners culture and wanting it to dominate the Hmong.
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hmoob siav/hmoob nyoos....
these terms are not mong terms. they are labels given to hmong by the chinese. so really, there are no such thing as hmoob siav hmoob nyoos per hmong...but rather, hmong adopted the terms created by the chinese.
adoption is a very commmon practice by mong...OUR LAST NAMES ARE CHINESE NAMES..NOT HMONG NAME...SUCH AS LIS, THOJ, HER, ETC..THESE ARE ADOPTED LAST NAMES. OUR TRY CLAN NAMES ARE DLUAG, MOB, ZAG, ETC...
are you sure you don't mean "hmong swb"?? or hmong sib?
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Well, didn't China dominated us during the Chu Dynasty? We in fact had 3 dynasties before it fell into pieces by the hands of the Zhou Chinese (Cantonese) and the Qin (Mandarin). In history, Hmong were force to melt pot or die. Some of them decided to leave and fight like those freedom fighters. Well, we did. Chang Yang is Chiyou, and he was killed by the Yellow Emperor. Emperor Yi, the rebellious Zhou Prince who conquered us for some bargain (Chu States), he said that if we lose to him, we will gain the riches to whatever he gives us. If we want leadership, he'll give it. If we want scholars and aristocrats, he'll give it. At the end, the rebellious prince had enough with the Zhou Empire, we fough for our own independence by crushing the Zhou Empire. We stole our old land back, Shandong. After stealing our original country back in our hands, we lost to the Qin. Now that's where we were driven into melting pot with them and their dictorial rules.
Did you know that Genghis Kahn rated us the number 3 best people on his list? He sure liked us; however, he sure hates the Qin by discriminating them racially. I have a Chinese friend, who had given me a Chinese book. I use google translation to see the meaning behind the story. But Kahn wasn't my most important part; it was when we had our empire.
Again, Hmoob siav means, "Melted pot with China," and we were the ones that didn't melt with them. Why did you think our language was thrown into the Yellow River?
... kekeke ... :2funny:
DUHaftardLIES ... oops ... emmm, DUH-uh-Ha'Mung ha'primitive ha'ignornat ha'clueless ha'idiotic ha'edumacated ha'ranting ha'nonsense ha'incesseantly uh-DUH-Ha'Mung HA'MUNGINGLY Ha'Mung ... KEKEKE ... >:D ... :idiot2:/ ::)
HA'HINT:
This Hmoob siav means, "Melted pot with China," is an EPIC FAIL ... kekeke ... :2funny:/ :idiot2: Per Chinese Antiquity and renowned scholarly works, when the Manchu/Han (or Chinese), were conquering all of China, and more importantly were trying to Sinicize the Miao (or Hmong), they classified the Miao (Hmong) into two category; 1. Raw (Sheng Miao) or 2. Cooked (Shu Miao). The Cooked Miao/Hmong are the ones who are "Hmoob Siav", meaning they voluntarily or involuntarily assimilated into Chinese culture, customs, language etc.. The Raw Miao/Hmong were the rebels, enemy (anti-Chinese), and/or are/were resistance fighters who did not care for Chinese acculturation, governance, and sovereignty because they wanted their own freedom, identity, culture, custom, language etc.; thus paid dearly with their lives in countless bloodbaths, wars, raids, pogroms etc.. Get uh-DUh-ha-clue ha'primitive ha'ignorant ha'edumacated ha'twit ha'ranting ha'nonsense DUHaftardLIES Ha'Mung ... KEKEKE ... >:D
Ha'AZZ furz duh-UH-other ha'nonsense ha'ranted ... kekeke ... :idiot2: :idiot2:/ ::)
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Dude, my uncle isn't a Christian. He was going over there to chitchat with some ladies like those poor videos that you see at the Hmong New Year. He sells things at Hmong New Year, to which I learned from him since he always goes to China.
I am not lying; yet, you think I am. Go over there for yourself if you want. My uncle has been talking about it each time he wants to go to China.
I wasn't talking about your uncle. I was talking about you.
Your uncle is cool, as he is Hmong. You on the other hand are a traitor (without realizing so). You're like Oedipus Rex in the 2nd play complaining about why his land is being ruined, all along not realizing that it was his fault (for sleeping with his mom, having a daughter, thus reaping the gods curse). You want Hmong renaissance, but your very own actions (being an idiot christian and propagating its ways into Hmong society/culture) will destroy it! Wake up.
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Still a long way to go for you, grasshopper, until you come to the realization of what I'm saying to you.
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Well, didn't China dominated us during the Chu Dynasty? We in fact had 3 dynasties before it fell into pieces by the hands of the Zhou Chinese (Cantonese) and the Qin (Mandarin). In history, Hmong were force to melt pot or die. Some of them decided to leave and fight like those freedom fighters. Well, we did. Chang Yang is Chiyou, and he was killed by the Yellow Emperor. Emperor Yi, the rebellious Zhou Prince who conquered us for some bargain (Chu States), he said that if we lose to him, we will gain the riches to whatever he gives us. If we want leadership, he'll give it. If we want scholars and aristocrats, he'll give it. At the end, the rebellious prince had enough with the Zhou Empire, we fough for our own independence by crushing the Zhou Empire. We stole our old land back, Shandong. After stealing our original country back in our hands, we lost to the Qin. Now that's where we were driven into melting pot with them and their dictorial rules.
Did you know that Genghis Kahn rated us the number 3 best people on his list? He sure liked us; however, he sure hates the Qin by discriminating them racially. I have a Chinese friend, who had given me a Chinese book. I use google translation to see the meaning behind the story. But Kahn wasn't my most important part; it was when we had our empire.
Again, Hmoob siav means, "Melted pot with China," and we were the ones that didn't melt with them. Why did you think our language was thrown into the Yellow River?
1. hmong swv are not hmong siav. the real "hmoob siav" have already assimilated into han chinese society and have no idea they are "hmong" anymore, as already explained. if a group is still using the "hmong" identity, they were not "hmoob siav" to start with, but "hmoob nyoos" because they did no assimilate and stil identify as "hmong".
2. "Zhou Chinese (Cantonese) and the Qin (Mandarin)"...where do you get this nonsense from!? the cantonese language formed from "middle chinese" language around the time of the Sui and Tang dynasties, it has nothing to do with Zhou dynasty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Chinese
Zhou dynasty: 1046-256 BCE
Sui dynasty: 581–618 CE
Tang dynasty: 618–907 CE
there was almost 1000 years between the end of the Zhou dynasty and the start of the Sui dynasty. and for your information, cantonese refer to themselves as "people of Tang" or Tangren: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_Chinese
"The term (Chinese: 唐人; pinyin: Tángrén; Jyutping: tong4jan4), Tang Chinese or Tang People, that many southern Chinese, mainly the Cantonese (Tong Yan), Min Nan (Teng Lang) and Hakka people (Tong Ngin), use to refer to the Han Chinese ethnic group."
the mandarin language formed from "middle chinese" and was not widespread until the 14th century, 1300s CE. the Qin were defeated in 206 BCE, 1000+ years before the mandarin language and has nothing to do with mandarin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese
3. "Did you know that Genghis Kahn rated us the number 3 best people on his list?" give a reference please because this counts among one of the most absurd things i've heard. the hmong had no state and no political power and if there was a list, i'm pretty sure hmong would be near the very bottom.
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Did you know that Genghis Kahn rated us the number 3 best people on his list? He sure liked us; however, he sure hates the Qin by discriminating them racially. I have a Chinese friend, who had given me a Chinese book. I use google translation to see the meaning behind the story. But Kahn wasn't my most important part; it was when we had our empire.
Can you show some reference to your claim. According history, there are no evidence showing that Genghis Kahn encounter Hmong. By the time the Mongols invaded northern China, the Hmong people settled in southern China. Genghis Kahn died before the Jin Dynasty fell to the Mongols.
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I'm curious as well about this source.
Too often a source is some obscure reference that gets misidentified, becomes a generalization and is used as fact.
Sorta like I heard it from a guy, who heard it from another guy who heard it from his uncle.
And trying not to be harsh here, but this isn't the first claim the OP's made and when questioned has replied "You don't know." or "You don't understand."
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The only time I have ever heard the term Hmoob Swv was in China many years ago in WenShan in the Yunnan Province. If what you are saying is true, why were my best friend and I told by the Miao/Hmong people there that we were Hmong Swv?
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The only time I have ever heard the term Hmoob Swv was in China many years ago in WenShan in the Yunnan Province. If what you are saying is true, why were my best friend and I told by the Miao/Hmong people there that we were Hmong Swv?
Perhaps the meaning has changed or is being used differently now. Maybe they called you that because you no longer live in that area and/or not living your life like the "old traditional" way.
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I took a Hmong history class in Fresno and I was taught that the Great Walls of China was to push the Hmong AND the Mongols out of their nation. It so happens that I spoke with a Chinese friend who agrees that by according to history, the Mongols really liked us since we are brave fighters. However, from another story by him as well, he said that after the Chinese were defeated, racial slurs starts to go around the entire ethnic group. There are only five groups to which I don't know the rest of the entire section of the five except for the Hmong. We are counted as 3.
The wall that build in defense of the Miao people was the Southern Great Wall, AKa The Miaojiang Great Wall. After the fall of the Mongol power in China, the Ming rose to power. The wall was build/finished during the Ming Dynasty.
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-double post-
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I took a Hmong history class in Fresno and I was taught that the Great Walls of China was to push the Hmong AND the Mongols out of their nation. It so happens that I spoke with a Chinese friend who agrees that by according to history, the Mongols really liked us since we are brave fighters. However, from another story by him as well, he said that after the Chinese were defeated, racial slurs starts to go around the entire ethnic group. There are only five groups to which I don't know the rest of the entire section of the five except for the Hmong. We are counted as 3.
1. the great wall of china was not built to "push the (hmong) and the mongols out of china". the great wall of china was built to keep the altaic (mongols) and tungusic (manchus) people from entering china.
2. "It so happens that I spoke with a Chinese friend who agrees that by according to history, the Mongols really liked us since we are brave fighters. However, from another story by him as well, he said that after the Chinese were defeated, racial slurs starts to go around the entire ethnic group. There are only five groups to which I don't know the rest of the entire section of the five except for the Hmong. We are counted as 3." -please just stop. why do hmong people resort to such nonsense for "proof"? why do you settle for hearsay and myths and legends as your "proof" and not search for definitive facts?
3. there's no record of hmong people in north china at the time of the mongols. what record there is, have the hmong people in south china. i've already shared those resources in the linguistic history of hmong and the written history of the Ming dynasty that records hmong in southern china.
4. if hmong people were north, hanging out with the altaics (mongols) and tungusics (manchus), it would be reflected in our language. here's another resource for you, a database of hmong words and origins: http://wold.clld.org/vocabulary/25 (http://wold.clld.org/vocabulary/25)
you will not find a single word from altaic and tungusic languages. you will find words from chinese, tibeto-burmese, austronesian, mon-khmer (austro-asiatic) and thai/lao (tai-kadai)...reflecting accurately the hmong migration/diaspora.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusic_languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungusic_languages)
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I took a Hmong history class in Fresno and I was taught that the Great Walls of China was to push the Hmong AND the Mongols out of their nation. It so happens that I spoke with a Chinese friend who agrees that by according to history, the Mongols really liked us since we are brave fighters. However, from another story by him as well, he said that after the Chinese were defeated, racial slurs starts to go around the entire ethnic group. There are only five groups to which I don't know the rest of the entire section of the five except for the Hmong. We are counted as 3.
it just struck me where you got the whole idea of the "5 groups of people in china" from. it revolves around the chinese flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_China
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg/900px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png)
it was erroneously circulated that the 5 stars on the flag of china represented the so-called 5 main ethnics of china: the han chinese, the mongols, the manchus, the tibetans and the hui's. in reality, the designer of the flag of china meant for the stars to represent the 5 classes of china: the communist leadership, the working class, the peasantry, the urban petite bourgeoisie and the national bourgeoisie.
the 5 races of china concept goes back to pre-communist revolutionarie s revolving around the flag of the republic of china shown below. sorry to burst your bubble, hmong people were not among the 5 races of china: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Races_Under_One_Union
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China_%281912-1928%29.svg/960px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China_%281912-1928%29.svg.png)
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1. Mongols have recruited other Chinese to betray their own Kingdom
2. Hmong might have been defeated BY the Mongols
3. Mongol nation grew during the Khan's reign.
4. Hmong people in Shandong became warriors for the Khan
5. At least we were respected by him, even though Khan was a huge ****...
Your number 3 and 4 are true; yet, you're missing one thing: Khan have stolen tribes in China to go to war against China itself. Hmong hated the Mongols, but they had no choice. What do you prefer; genocide?
1. which has nothing to do with why the great wall of china was built. it was built to keep people from coming into china, not to drive people out of china as you claim.
2. every ethnic in china was defeated by the mongols, including hmong. one of the main mongol headquaters was in Yunnan. it controlled all the border territories and ethnics, including hmong people.
3. don't know what your point is here.
4. please show reference and proof that hmong people were in Shandong during Kublai Khan's reign and that Kublai Khan had a hmong army.
5. please show reference and proof that Kublai Khan "respected" or made any special note of hmong people.
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That part, I didn't know; however, we are talking about ancient history. What if the 5 ethnics weren't these people back then? You're talking in the times before the communist regime. As to rebuttal your claims, modern history is different from the times of ancient history of China.
if you're serious about learning hmong history, then i suggest you improve your reading and comprehension skills. the 5 ethnic concept was not a part of "ancient" chinese history. it had it's beginnings in the Sui dynasty and has been a facet of chinese politics since. the 5 ethnic flag that was shown and used was created in 1911 when the Republic of China was founded. it's the very first sentence in the wiki...really don't understand how that point can be missed.
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TAL,
You keep bringing up the relationship between the hmong, mongols and khan. For clarity, which khan are you talking about?
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Dang everytime I read something about hmong history on here or anywhere else I feel like it's just people making things up unless it's history in the past 100 years
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I really wish there was a way to truthfully trace us hmong people through history.
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I really wish there was a way to truthfully trace us hmong people through history.
There is a way, although the result won't be 100% accurate. The method is to do research, gathering facts from many different and reliable sources. Don't be bias.
Myths should not be use as evidence. Although it can be use as a sense of direction, it should be researched to determine which part of the myth, if any, were historical facts or exaggerated and/or made up entirely.