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General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Wedding Rituals & Customs => Topic started by: nightrider on June 15, 2019, 09:09:05 AM

Title: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 15, 2019, 09:09:05 AM
This is very personal. This year I'd traveled to Thailand and met the woman of my life. I knew she has ex bf and such but she has end it all relationships with them. Being with her there's nothing out of the ordinary. Our relationship bloomed, was going good and we planned on getting married in Thailand legally because I want solid documentations for petitioning a spouse. Even let the parents know my intent and they both approved. There seems to be no problems at all. But after coming back home for a little over month and she went back home to her parents house. After getting back, it's not long that someone passed away in the town so she went with her family to help out at the funeral. On the day of burial, I'd talked to her everything seemed normal, nothing out of the ordinary. But little did I know, that night her ex bf brought some people and had a night long discussion at her parents house. The falling morning, they'd held their wedding... I just couldn't believe it. I know most likely she was coerced or pressure into marriage and I know they do not have legal marriage paper works. I'm just so devastated and am going crazy.

So folks, what can I do at this point? I'm extremely desperate, need your help and advices especially on the hmong cultural part and should I some how able to get her to appear with me at Thai Amphur legalising marriage. Can I use that to step on these ogs? Anyone familiar with Thai laws please advice me. I'm crazy right now. I'd purchased my plane ticket in advance before all this happened. One way or the other, I'm heading over there. Can't stand still and sulking all day. I can't stay focus at work, my hands are jittering with rage, and restless...
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 15, 2019, 03:22:53 PM
Yes. That's what I did wrong but it's unavoidable because we're both in Bangkok, her family is all the way in Nan, and besides that my departure date was a couple days near. Didn't have the time to go but have verbally talked to both the parents. It's not like we're strangers, family wise, everyone knows each other well. I believed that my words a lone would be good enough but that's not the case.

At the moment, I'm unable to get in touch with her. Her husband is all around the clock monitoring her phone. Even most of her relatives don't know about her wedding. It's so sudden, there's no notice to friends and family. I'd even had her uncle here in the states calling her but to no avail. If I know for certain that it was coerced. I'll get in touch with you. Thanks for your advice.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: ProudLao on June 15, 2019, 06:22:07 PM
Personally for me I would consider that it wasnít meant to be and let it go. Going back to debate on something that wasnít concrete to begin with, the odds are not on your side. Sorry about your situation.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: DuMa on June 15, 2019, 08:53:54 PM
I don't know about the cultural implications but I will tell you this.

Even at the brink of taking that last breath, the least she can do is to tell you what her side is going to do.  This is where you find a way for her escape.  Have her do a runaway and you put her in a dislocation and you pump some money to keep her there and promise her that you will come n get her. 

I don't believe in force marriages.  I don't believe in weaklings going through with such.  Thus why I say I don't know the cultural enough to say that the cultural implication is strong enough get her to go through with it. 

I say fawk oversea and everything.  If I love someone, I'll bring them here and raise them like a pet. 

That married is done for.  You go over there n play Robinhood and you will be killed.   Your love for her makes you crazy but what can she do about the situation?  Probably nothing cuz she a good nyau right?  Eff that.  You did not lost her, she abandoned you.  I told you to wait but you went ahead n get married.  All other excuses are invalid bottom line. 

Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: DuMa on June 15, 2019, 09:04:46 PM
I feel for you thus why I have to make a double post.

What I say has nothing against the Hmong culture so forgive me in advance.

If that happens to me, I'll disown a few of my culture n savages acts.  I might hold a grudge against the culture itself.  This is not a movie but it seems like it.  Now I can see why some Hmong women be crying to me that they hated the Hmong culture.  I can't blame them and some, I had to bite my tongue and tell them to embrace what is Hmong to them cuz at the end of the day, she still Hmong.  What I should of said is to keep what they like and let go what they seem savages.  This will be hard to do if she lives under her old school parents roof but Duke it out till the Time is right where they can move out and play their own philosophy in life. 

I feel you though.  I don't mind losing someone to another man cuz she walking that line but to lose someone cuz of her parent's wordings n force marriages, that I just can not do. 

Sorry to hear your case cuz now you are a statistic and them love music videos may sux to you.  I enjoyed watching them cuz it hasn't happened to me....knock on wood
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 15, 2019, 09:14:40 PM
I know the odds are stacked against me but I still believe there's a way. Like you say, if it's worth picking a fight, I will definitely destroy "Troy". I believe in pride, honor, and justice. Leaving things the way it is, it will only embolden more people to do the same or encourage their daughters to use us money mules.

Currently, I'm leaning towards condemning her as she did not resist or run away and attempted to reach me for help. As for cultural practice, I will honor it to an extend but like how her parents treated me. There's no way for me to honor such system when they broken their own promise.

Thanks a lot for guys for your input.

Yes. Duma, what you said, I completely stand with you on that. I'm willing to step on culture and even the elders for that matter. Like you, I don't mind losing a person to someone because she'd walked that line but I do mind losing to someone else because of her folks. Hmong people is all about the face thing, they like to gossip and gloat about it. Even now, as I'm writing I'm part of their narrative that I'm a complete fool. Not only lost the woman I love but money too.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: DuMa on June 15, 2019, 09:43:15 PM
The sux part about all of this is the truth.  You haven't gotten it cuz you lost communication with her.  You deserved to her them excuses coming from her.  You will be like a ghost, lingering without an answer unless date brings you a better replacement. 

I have a Viet song video that describes your situation.  This case is about a Viet guy n Viet teacher being lovers but war time, he must served and she lost contact with him.  Years later, she happens to run into him but saw him in another city and he now has a wife n kid. 

It is sad regardless cuz the truth is out there and you are not getting it for closure. 

I ghosted women b4 but our love was not all there so little damages were done.  I don't do that anymore cuz I now realized that other peoples have feelings and it is wrong to waste people's time.   I don't even cheat either cuz cheating hurts the broken heart like I have.  I'm a curse cuz I have issues with commitment.  If I stick around long enough, I have to marry her.  If I leave, hoping to do so before real feelings are involved. 

The love game sux.  When you find that someone but you are at the other end of the stick, it makes you jaded like i have. 

But with any sad story, your story will end differently by giving someone else a chance to love a guy that has gone through tough chit. 

I don't play overseas games.  It is an area that limited my control.  I play domestic cuz I have answers for them cuz you can fly every weekend to see her, given that you make enough for that ticket. 



Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 16, 2019, 12:46:10 AM
You have a link or title of the video? I know the feeling of a broken heart. The pain is just unbearable that one would rather take his/her own life. But being older and wiser that's something that will not solve any problem. Knowing the pain personally, I've never once played with a person's heart. And yet, every time I'd found someone that I like, I end up on the other end of the stick as you'd said. I received a lot of that here in the states which is why I give overseas a try.  I just really don't know why I have such bad luck in the game of love. Being good thru out my childhood and adult life, it's hard to play the bad guy. I can never bring myself to use people or fool around with a person's heart. Becoming Buddha itself is probably easier then finding love.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: Prude on June 16, 2019, 07:43:31 PM
Here's a song that's good for this situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnOX3xRs2k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnOX3xRs2k)
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: theking on June 17, 2019, 02:36:50 AM
I know most likely she was coerced or pressure into marriage ...

Find out what the Thai laws are..If it's similar to the laws here in the U.S. and she was forced to into marriage, those involved can get punished for it...

Quote
So folks, what can I do at this point? I'm extremely desperate, need your help and advices especially on the hmong cultural part and should I some how able to get her to appear with me at Thai Amphur legalising marriage. Can I use that to step on these ogs? Anyone familiar with Thai laws please advice me. I'm crazy right now. I'd purchased my plane ticket in advance before all this happened. One way or the other, I'm heading over there. Can't stand still and sulking all day. I can't stay focus at work, my hands are jittering with rage, and restless...

Again do some research on Thai laws and go from there. If she really loves you, she should do her part too by turning in those that forced her to do something against her will/rights...and reconnect with you...

Like here, the "hmong cultural part" won't be much of a factor if her rights are violated...
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: DuMa on June 17, 2019, 03:45:41 AM
Another option that crosses my head is that you may be a victim of a con. 

If she is force to marry someone she doesn't know then that seems more legit in terms of force marriage. 

Now if she is going to marry an ex, that is not force.  Any ex of ours, we have good moments with them so I can't say that it is 100% force cuz dude is not a stranger to her. 

Worst part of the con is her parents are into the con.  They are all into it for extortion.  Money speaks big I them southeast asian countries n I have heard too many stories that ruins my projection of such world. 

Like family members screwing one another and lying to their teeth when money is involved.  Like my uncle pumped good money to vn so his side of the family can have a house.   All were quiet until he came back to learned the truth.  His brother had sold his house and cashed out.

Or how my grandpa was abled to get a sponsorship by my dad back in the mid 80s.  He got papers and social security.  When he went back to vn, with his son n his wife, he got conned by them.  He took and hid his passport so my grandpa got stuck in vn and his son and wife continued to collect his SSI money.  Back in them days, SSI came in the mail as a check and Viet grocery stores would cash them for you. 

Heard from a relative that came back n saw my 80s years old grandpa was begging for money n food there.  I was furious n took the next trip to Denver to find this dumbazz n was about to put a bullet to his head.  He heard I was coming so he hid out.

Lost touch with Grandpa so he might have died by now.

I am jaded about oversea n everything about oversea. I see my Hmong friends dad be calling to his Thailand hunny while his wife at home knows but can not do anything about it.  I'm sure he's sending her some money. 

Stories like these can show you that money Is king to some so best to watch yourself cuz we all can easily fooled and they are getting smarter. 



Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: hmgROCK on June 17, 2019, 07:27:11 AM
that just puppy love, bro
love at first sight
you will get over it
1-3 weeks ain't long enough

relax, there plenty of girls here in the USA
no need to go oversea for girls


if i was still single, i would take the 3rd girl from the left out to some PHO
even though im not a fan of PHO
than we go shooting my guns,
just getting to know them
and build relationship, bro
 it take a long time
like 6-12 months

but we love our wife
so you go ahead

(https://www.sacramento365.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/www.sacramento365.com/images/2018/10/Sacramento-Hmong-New-Year-Celebration_Photo-courtesy-of-Sacramento-Hmong-New-Year-Inc-3-400x300.jpg)
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: Gucci K on June 17, 2019, 11:19:14 AM
not to insult your intelligence but you should have known better.  long distance relationships usually never works, should have learned from others' mistake who took the same path and got used.  knowing someone in the length of your vacation is too short of a time to actually know a person (in detail).  consider yourself lucky because building a permanent relationship (husband/wife) on a whim, never works out and even if you did bring her to the US, it's a low percentage rate that it will work out...we know and have too many incidents as proof.    hmong overseas has gotten smarter, they will play you for your money, there is no true love as you would hope.

you speak as if you never had a broken heart before...this is merely a reminder that love is cruel, if you don't act on, someone else is going to take it away.  if it hurts you this much, i say take another trip overseas and go fix your heart with multiple ladies! 

 
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: YAX on June 17, 2019, 11:42:01 AM
This is very personal. This year I'd traveled to Thailand and met the woman of my life. I knew she has ex bf and such but she has end it all relationships with them. Being with her there's nothing out of the ordinary. Our relationship bloomed, was going good and we planned on getting married in Thailand legally because I want solid documentations for petitioning a spouse. Even let the parents know my intent and they both approved. There seems to be no problems at all. But after coming back home for a little over month and she went back home to her parents house. After getting back, it's not long that someone passed away in the town so she went with her family to help out at the funeral. On the day of burial, I'd talked to her everything seemed normal, nothing out of the ordinary. But little did I know, that night her ex bf brought some people and had a night long discussion at her parents house. The falling morning, they'd held their wedding... I just couldn't believe it. I know most likely she was coerced or pressure into marriage and I know they do not have legal marriage paper works. I'm just so devastated and am going crazy.

So folks, what can I do at this point? I'm extremely desperate, need your help and advices especially on the hmong cultural part and should I some how able to get her to appear with me at Thai Amphur legalising marriage. Can I use that to step on these ogs? Anyone familiar with Thai laws please advice me. I'm crazy right now. I'd purchased my plane ticket in advance before all this happened. One way or the other, I'm heading over there. Can't stand still and sulking all day. I can't stay focus at work, my hands are jittering with rage, and restless...
  But do you think you can still love her, knowing he's been riding her since their wedding?  Most guys can't.  They'd just get her to  run away from her husband, then they either marry her and torment her for being laid by another man or they'd just dump her after a few nights of pleasure.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: DuMa on June 17, 2019, 12:44:09 PM
Let me share something with you that I picked up along the way. 

This is the reason why I don't put my whole heart into long distance.  You see, local flavors create stronger bonds.  A guy can run around his girl on the daily and she rejects him. Do this enough and maybe one day, she will marry him.  Now you as an outsider will have a hard time breaking this local commitment.  Sure when you are there, you are the flavor but once you go home, you will no longer be that local flavor. 

I must admit, I have tried to break up a local couple but their bond is just too strong.  He's a chump so what is she seeing in him right?  It is fair game since they are not officially together but local always win because of the availability factor. 

Women are like a thermometer.  The more you see her and entices her, the higher her thermometer will go off the chart.  The moment you failed to entices her, the red goes back down. So it is best to continue to spark her interest and if you must leave, she must be committed to you by waiting, just like a good g.i joe wife who is going to wait for her man.  If such commitment is not there, you will lose her to a local yocal. 

Weak women, I don't need.  Only the strongest can apply.   O0
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 17, 2019, 07:11:51 PM
  But do you think you can still love her, knowing he's been riding her since their wedding?  Most guys can't.  They'd just get her to  run away from her husband, then they either marry her and torment her for being laid by another man or they'd just dump her after a few nights of pleasure.

Assuming she was forced, I can forgive her but as of now, I don't see any effort or attempts to contact me what so ever. So now it's just best to let it go, no point in going after "Troy" since there's nothing of value or reason to.

Duma,
You make very good point about the locals having the advantage because of availability. That's something I don't have, the guy I heard can't even compared to me, but he is closer and plus has family ties with her elders. Which is why I loss. But it's ok, there's plenty of women out there. But like you say, I need to look for strong will women not the weak that can be easily swayed.

Now, any one has any relatives with daughters over there that are under 28yrs old? I would like to meet and get to know them. I still have to go over there not because I can't cancel my flight but because I can't stand to idle. Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: DuMa on June 17, 2019, 07:55:48 PM
Assuming she was forced, I can forgive her but as of now, I don't see any effort or attempts to contact me what so ever. So now it's just best to let it go, no point in going after "Troy" since there's nothing of value or reason to.

Duma,
You make very good point about the locals having the advantage because of availability. That's something I don't have, the guy I heard can't even compared to me, but he is closer and plus has family ties with her elders. Which is why I loss. But it's ok, there's plenty of women out there. But like you say, I need to look for strong will women not the weak that can be easily swayed.

Now, any one has any relatives with daughters over there that are under 28yrs old? I would like to meet and get to know them. I still have to go over there not because I can't cancel my flight but because I can't stand to idle. Thanks guys!

You know, this was what I have done b4.  I too wasn't getting my closure so I had to see her to get her reaction.  In the movies, she would run into your arms but that's Hollywood.  I took one look at her and just shook my head.  I leave her with that gesture so she can figure it out for herself.  Exit out the front door i go and without looking back.  In the movies, when you walk away, she comes running after you if she cared and once again, my life was not a movie. 

Hope you get your closure but keep a straight head.  No violence and never get hurt over a woman.  Too many cases I be hearing that men tends to die because of a woman.  Don't be that sad statistic. 
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: ProudLao on June 17, 2019, 09:27:03 PM
Iíll chime in one more time. When a woman loves you enough she will fight tooth and nail for you. And if she married anyone for any reason when she told you that she loves you, she doesnít deserve you and you should not waste a penny or time on her.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: hmgROCK on June 17, 2019, 10:45:03 PM
Bro

Thatís not love
Thats just crush and puppy love

Let it go
Plenty of girls out there

Donít go chasing married women/mens

Come drink with me
Forget and forgive
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: Gucci K on June 18, 2019, 07:46:40 AM
Iíll chime in one more time. When a woman loves you enough she will fight tooth and nail for you. And if she married anyone for any reason when she told you that she loves you, she doesnít deserve you and you should not waste a penny or time on her.
not when it's a long distance relationship.. .if she gets disowned and kicked out into the streets...knig htrider and his kit car nor his winged horse will never to get her in time to save a damsel in distress.  the woman is smart not to wager on something that is uncertain...if he's beside her, that may be a different story.

Go to her and hear it from her own self about what happened. You deserve that much. At the very least, if her heart changed then you should hear it straight from her that she wants to stay married to that guy. But if she was unwilling but somehow forced or coerced, maybe she just needs a way out but doesn't have the resources to do so. Maybe she's a victim as much as you. Maybe she's unable to contact you because she's scared. Maybe she's waiting for you because you were the one who promised to marry her. Maybe she thinks you won't even want her anymore now that this has happened. And even if it's not a happily ever after for the both of you, at the very least you'll have your explanation for what happened from her viewpoint. You won't be plagued with what if's and questions about what exactly happened. You'll know. And then you can move on.
why waste the time!?  once she's married ces ua neej khuav siab and sib hlub from afar lawm xwb.  but if you must...go marry her sister instead! ha!
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: dlabtsi_os on June 18, 2019, 10:04:34 AM
You said you have long talk but you never went specific moron. Real talk, this is not even a Hmong matter.  :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: This is a typical scenario in relationship. Marriage is just the icing.  :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:

Long story short: You like her. She like you. She has an ex that duck her in the past. He play with her. She decide to end  her relationship with him. Her ex found out. Her ex doesn't want to be a ducking loser. So he decide to married her. He is already deep in her panties. So she decide to marry him. I seen this too many times. Girls like her make terrible wives. Find some mature women that can stand on her two feet.

I remember a female friend went crazy over multiple of guys many times. Being a class act gentleman and friend. I talk shit to her to grow the duck up. She realize the truth and moved on. Those guys now beg beg and keep calling her. She decide to ignore them. And it worked. She felt bad, but I told her that relationship ain't butterfly and chocolate. BTW she is a Christian, me I am OG style.  :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: theking on June 18, 2019, 04:24:08 PM
not when it's a long distance relationship.. .

So ignorant but NOT surprised from someone that proudly supports lies and fakes...
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 18, 2019, 06:14:44 PM
Thanks a lot for your inputs guys. It's been so many days and she finally made contact with me only to tell me that she's sorry. She doesn't sound to please about the marriage but without her letting out a hint asking for help, she asked me to forgive her parents. I asked her what exactly happened and was she coerced or forced. She couldn't give a me straight answer but tells me maybe she made too many mistakes from her past life that her bad fortune has caught up to her to be in this miserable marriage. With this, I believed she made up her mind to be with him. But now, realized she made a mistake... Perhaps she's looking for a way out or she just wants sympathy? At this cross road, I believe that it's time to just let it go because she likely did contributed to her sudden unplanned marriage and I shouldn't meddle in her affairs. Because there's no venue for me to get involve, there's really nothing for me to gain in this.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: DuMa on June 18, 2019, 06:22:39 PM
Thanks a lot for your inputs guys. It's been so many days and she finally made contact with me only to tell me that she's sorry. She doesn't sound to please about the marriage but without her letting out a hint asking for help, she asked me to forgive her parents. I asked her what exactly happened and was she coerced or forced. She couldn't give a me straight answer but tells me maybe she made too many mistakes from her past life that her bad fortune has caught up to her to be in this miserable marriage. With this, I believed she made up her mind to be with him. But now, realized she made a mistake... Perhaps she's looking for a way out or she just wants sympathy? At this cross road, I believe that it's time to just let it go because she likely did contributed to her sudden unplanned marriage and I shouldn't meddle in her affairs. Because there's no venue for me to get involve, there's really nothing for me to gain in this.

I heard about this past life theory but I'm not buying it.  Obviously the truth is still kept and what a vague answer she is giving you.  I mean I would do the same thing if I were to con my way out of this by giving you excuses so your psycho azz would not go postal on them.  You got your closure but sounds like a half azz excuses to me. 

Live and learn.  You still don't even know the truth yourself.  Maybe she is not even married.  Maybe it was all a lie so she can move onto another victim and con for more money. 

It is like this.  If you know you will not be with her or any women, what would you do?  I tell you the truth.  I'll exploit to my advantage.  When I know I'm not going to be with my ex, I asked her for one last sex.  It was nasty and I got it.   O0
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: ProudLao on June 19, 2019, 06:01:13 AM
I'm sorry too. Be positive and kind as you are.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 21, 2019, 05:41:26 PM
Thanks guys! I'm some what hurt but she doesn't know what's coming her way. I'll let the heavens decide on her fate. The guy she'd married isn't half bad but if men think alike. I'm sure it won't be long til he discovers her dirty laundry. I should be happy that I'm off the hook. It's time to move on with somebody better.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: qeej on June 23, 2019, 08:16:30 AM
i don't wanna be mean but have hmong american girls really become unicorns? i'm not saying things can't work out with overseas people... but i guess... i'm just saying.. pick on someone your own size. 

and then to top it off by saying "it won't be long til he discovers her dirty laundry". i mean, did you even cared about her at all? or were you too busy being infatuated? putting her down because you did not get what you want shows real emotional intelligence.

good riddance. maybe you should go to laos/thailand.  and i hope the girls there take advantage of you all the same.

Thanks guys! I'm some what hurt but she doesn't know what's coming her way. I'll let the heavens decide on her fate. The guy she'd married isn't half bad but if men think alike. I'm sure it won't be long til he discovers her dirty laundry. I should be happy that I'm off the hook. It's time to move on with somebody better.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: nightrider on June 24, 2019, 08:01:23 PM
 ;D

I guess you didn't bother to read my original post. But short answer, yes, I no longer care for her after what she did to me. As for women over here, you must be extremely attractive or lucky to count on them. It's hard to meet people these days, I don't want to limit myself to only women here but an open to else where.
Title: Re: Fiance forced or coerced into marriage
Post by: dlabtsi_os on June 30, 2019, 11:41:03 PM
i don't wanna be mean but have hmong american girls really become unicorns? i'm not saying things can't work out with overseas people... but i guess... i'm just saying.. pick on someone your own size. 

and then to top it off by saying "it won't be long til he discovers her dirty laundry". i mean, did you even cared about her at all? or were you too busy being infatuated? putting her down because you did not get what you want shows real emotional intelligence.

good riddance. maybe you should go to laos/thailand.  and i hope the girls there take advantage of you all the same.

Bish what you talk about. Hmong American women are my bread and butter. I am there pbnj. I love them. There problem is they don't love themselve enough. Hmong women being talking about going night club and crap and only to complain. That crap is bad for your health. Woman and man aren't capable to love themselves until later in life. People ask me where are the nice men/women at? I tell them there everywhere there just busy figuring out their life.