PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: TheAfterLife on February 13, 2013, 01:46:27 PM
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Have they ever fought each other in a war during the ancient times of China or before China?
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No. There's no written or oral record of such thing.
I think the Hmong have been divided among ourselves, even within clans and families, because of our religious affiliations and even lack of open-mindedness in the past. But we have never fought ourselves in a revolutionary war or war for territories.
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I've heard many of the elders say that, "All Hmong people were Green at one time"? Anyone got any other input on this?
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There was ONLY one HMOOB xwb....the dialects never was an issue...it was those OUTSIDERS that seek to divide us that have succeeded in dividing not by linguistics differences, but by our own stupidity to support one another to defend our freedom/land and a self-governing people!
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There isn't a lot of hmong green if any left. People get green confused with hmong leng.
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hmong white and green is like American north and southern dialect or American english and British english. Same people with two different dialect.
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hmong white and green is like American north and southern dialect or American english and British english. Same people with two different dialect.
Don't you mean hmong leng and hmong white.
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It's green in the way I was taught.
That is considered an insult for some hmong leng.
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Hey, blame the culture that is changing, not me...
That's a typical attribute that many White Hmongs tend to have. Ignorance.
Btw, what is the reason or the way how you were taught that turned Hmong Leng into Hmong Green?
Don't tell me it's because of what we wear. lol
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Hey, blame the culture that is changing, not me...
Doesn't matter on the changing of the culture, to that particular person it's still offensive. It's the same as a Laotian calls a Hmong from the US "meo". That means nothing to that person. But call a Hmong from Laos that and it's considered offensive to that person.
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No, we will change it into Hmong rather than Miao. The Miao shall be no more since we want some respect to which I agree with you; however, what does this have to do by just asking permission from China to let us name our OWN country, without any racial terms?
You lost me there with China and country.
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What I am saying is that the Chinese have no rights to force us to be Chinese, but I would rather have them called me, "Hmong" rather than Chinese or Miao. That's what I am saying. However, we must agree that we have to be in their united kingdom, or else all hell breaks loose. That's my point.
I think you're in the wrong thread.
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http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=293504 (http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=293504)
Look at the DNA.... Green Hmong would be Yunan Hmong. Interesting ... It could be why Hmong Leng (Mong) are so sensitive on this subject. Another thing... when you see Mong.. it means Hmong Leng. It does not include White Hmong.
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I don't believe they are such historical stories involving white and green Hmong....
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Have they ever fought each other in a war during the ancient times of China or before China?
Tsi muaj Moob Green. Moob Blue xwb. Yog cov laug muab dlaim tab ntaub maaj rau nkaaj kuam ntsuab es zoo xaw cov tswv hab cov nplai tab. Tabsis, tsuas xaw cov nplai hab tswv rua tug taab xwb. Yaav sau npuas dluav tseem yog Nkaaj ntsuab. Tes cov laug pheej hu ua Moob Ntsuab.
Moob dlawb (Hmong White) yog dlaim tab ntaub maaj dlawb. Cas le muab caws es naav xwb. Tsi muab rau nkaaj. Naav dlaim dlawb paug...zoo le naaj nub nuav mej pum. Cov laug txhajle hu ua Moob Dlawb.
Moob Leeg mas yog has le kws kuv sau nuav. Has cov lug Moob dlawb, mas yog nyav hloov tomqaab nuav xwb. Raws le cov laug has. Tsimuaj ntaub ntawv teev tseg tes peb tsipaub qhov tseeb.
Thaum ub, teb chaws tsitau muaj Vaajpov hab tsi ua tsuv rog. Moob Leeg nyob moobleeg le zog, yeej tsi muaj ib tug los ib yig Moob Dlawb txuam.
Hos, lub zog twg yog Moob Dlawb tes, Moob Dlawb nkaus xwb, yeej tsi muaj Moob Leeg txuam.
Thaum ub, Moobleeg hab Moobdlawb yeej tsi sibyuav. Hab muaj2 sib thuam. Tobqaab kws tebchaw ua tsuv uarog, Moobleeg hab Moobdlawb lug nyob ua ke. Txhajle sibyuav lawm xwb.
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I've heard many of the elders say that, "All Hmong people were Green at one time"? Anyone got any other input on this?
Kuv yog Moob Leeg. Hmong Green or Leng, same difference. Anyway we were consider as Hmong Leng not because of veins, but we admitted to rebel against the Ming and Qing Dynasty. That is where Leng cames from. Leeg in Mong means to admit.
Hmong White or Dlawb on the other hand are the innocent one. The reason they are consider innocent, is because in order to escape from the persecution of the Hans or Manchu they change their clothes and accent. The one who started was a Hmong Women. If I recall in Hmong Dlawb Funeral the Hmong Women as sister or aunts are highly regarded. However, I never attended a Hmong Dlawb funeral before.
But anyway take what I said with a grain of salt.
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That's a typical attribute that many White Hmongs tend to have. Ignorance.
Btw, what is the reason or the way how you were taught that turned Hmong Leng into Hmong Green?
Don't tell me it's because of what we wear. lol
Personally I think the background of Hmong Green correlated with cannibalism is garbage. I personally think....
A)It was to stir so Hmong Dlawb or Mong Leeg can't marry together.
B)Someone(prefer if an outsider) bribe with hefty sum to the Hmong person to spread the lie.
I'd prefer option B. Hypothetically speaking, if Hmong were one of the first to irrigate, why suddenly changed to cannibalism in the last 200-400 years or so?
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Could you write in english. I know how to read hmong, but I prefer it english.
-Rough English translation-
There are no Mong Green. Only Blue Mong if elders have dress that has pieces mixed with color of indigo and green. But cloth such as sash, that are around the waist, has color of Green. That maybe why some elder says Mong Green.
Hmong White has White dress. The dress don't have piece color mixed such as indigo. That maybe why Hmong elders called them Hmong White.
Because there weren't any written documentary there are no proof to the truth of Hmong White and Mong Green. That is why Hmong White says this and Mong Green says that.
Way before Vang Pao's time, Mong Green lives with Mong Green village. Hmong White lives Hmong White village. They both avoid contact of one another. Nowadays, after the Indochina War, they both are more lenient about Hmong White marrying to Mong Green.
-There you go. If there is something that is incorrect pleased fixed my translation-
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Is there any textbook that has recorded about this, or are you just saying it?
Because there weren't any written documentary there are no proof to the truth of Hmong White and Mong Green. That is why Hmong White says this and Mong Green says that.
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As stated in the translation: There were no documentary or written records of how became of Hmong Leng/Green and Hmong White. All I can say is go to Hmong New Year and look at Hmong dress to determine whether they are Hmong White or Green.
This site can help to determine the clothes, but that's only it.
http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/boulevard/5987/Hmongcostumes.html (http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/boulevard/5987/Hmongcostumes.html)
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Have they ever fought each other in a war during the ancient times of China or before China?
I don't think so...
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The difference really only surfaced during the persecution from refusing to be conquered in china.
It's those who refused to be conquered vs those who submitted to being ruled over.
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I highly suggest you should ask your parents about this subject matter. They know the history more than kids ever know.
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As stated in the translation: There were no documentary or written records of how became of Hmong Leng/Green and Hmong White. All I can say is go to Hmong New Year and look at Hmong dress to determine whether they are Hmong White or Green.
This site can help to determine the clothes, but that's only it.
http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/boulevard/5987/Hmongcostumes.html (http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/boulevard/5987/Hmongcostumes.html)
Thanks for the link bro.
Now I know the reason why my mother (Hmong Lees) forbid me to dress up in Hmong Dawb clothes during HNY. lol
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Thanks for the link bro.
Now I know the reason why my mother (Hmong Lees) forbid me to dress up in Hmong Dawb clothes during HNY. lol
The traditional gowns (clothes) per Hmong/Mong group/subgroup is arguably incorrect within the/that website, as those are purely Western interpretation s/misinterpretations; hardly close to the original (and I am, to keep it simple, simply referring to all of the SEAsia variants; not including China's or other countries', like Vietnam, Burma, and Thailand, where Hmong/Mong also live) ... kekeke ... >:D (NO Hmong/Mong in Cambodia -- historically/to date)
(Examp: (where it is all WRONG; inconsistent/inaccurate) All the ladies per group/subgroup do not wear the same turban (headdress). They all are uniquely different. And the guys do not wear the same shirt style and accessories either. They too are uniquely different per group/subgroup. The website needs to be updated, with more accurate info/pictures, in depicting each groups'/subgroups' traditional/customary attires.)
They (the pictures of each Hmong/Mong group/subgroup) should look more like this:
(http://www.youthincharge.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/hmong-black-clothes-400x358.jpg) AND (guys) (http://www.oocities.org/hollywood/boulevard/5987/Dawb2.jpg)
White Hmong
(http://my.fit.edu/~gabrenya/cultural/meo_blue.jpg) OR (http://www.diranart.com/b00000009.jpg) AND (guys) (http://www.hilltribe.org/thai/hmong/hmong-dress/images/yeee1.jpg)
Green(Blue) Mong
(http://www.chrystal-clear.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/vietnam-sapa-hmong-people.jpg) AND (http://www.travelswithsheila.com/heritage/mini-blackmaio8.JPG)
Black Mong (Vietnam and Black Mong (China)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XYB-XxXS12k/UZebkRVRByI/AAAAAAAAAD4/j3OM1_zl0qk/s1600/2013-05-17_191658.jpg)
Hmong-Chinese (Yunnan="Paj Tas Lawg" Province)
(http://hmongza.com/uploads/monthly_09_2010/post-5869-128356775108_thumb.jpg) OR (http://joshuaproject.net/assets/media/profiles/photos/p18494.jpg) OR (http://gb.cri.cn/mmsource/images/2010/11/10/b0c79ed0bfb747dfb1a22c4a44d620b8.jpg) ETC. ETC.
Other Hmong-Chinese Groups/Subgroups
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The traditional gowns (clothes) per Hmong/Mong group/subgroup is arguably incorrect within the/that website, as those are purely Western interpretation s/misinterpretations; hardly close to the original (and I am, to keep it simple, simply referring to all of the SEAsia variants; not including China's or other countries', like Vietnam, Burma, and Thailand, where Hmong/Mong also live) ... kekeke ... >:D (NO Hmong/Mong in Cambodia -- historically/to date)
(Examp: (where it is all WRONG; inconsistent/inaccurate) All the ladies per group/subgroup do not wear the same turban (headdress). They all are uniquely different. And the guys do not wear the same shirt style and accessories either. They too are uniquely different per group/subgroup. The website needs to be updated, with more accurate info/pictures, in depicting each groups'/subgroups' traditional/customary attires.)
Bro, tsis ua li cas. lol Tsis txhob txhawj kuv twb paub tas lawm tias qhov website koj hais ntawm yeej muaj tseeb. Tiamsismas kuv xav paub txog Hmoob Ntsuab thiab Hmoob Lees cov khaw ncaws hnav puas yog ib yam losyog puas yog lawv muaj nyias?