PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Debate Central => Topic started by: Hung_Low on May 03, 2016, 06:57:05 PM
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http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2016/05/02/3774586/muslim-workers-fired-prayer/ (http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2016/05/02/3774586/muslim-workers-fired-prayer/)
Muslims demand 5 prayer sessions during work hours because they claimed their religion requires it.
Now, they're suing companies that are not allowing them to do it.
Do they have a right? Why can't they pray in the morning after getting, during break time, during lunch, directly right after work, and before going to bed. That's a total of 5 prayers... Why do they insisted on 5 prayers during work hours only? If any Phers in here is a Muslim, I want to know where does it specifically says that a practicing Muslim must pray 5 times from 7am-4pm, no other time is allow.
I know that Christian are ask to pray in the morning right after they wake up, before meals, and before bedtime. That typically means 5 times also. I don't see any Christian forcing or suing companies to allow them 5 prayer times during work hours.
If we allow this, pretty soon... Islam is going to dictate what our gov't can and can't do to Muslims.
Why is it that the Left support these Muslim demands yet demand Christians to shut their business down if they won't serve the LBGT community?
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Depends...If an employer allowed members of other religions to pray, they must allow all to pray...
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Depends...If an employer allowed members of other religions to pray, they must allow all to pray...
No accommodation to any other religion... Heck, businesses and school won't even allow Christian to pray to God on their property at all. But I'm sure school will allow Muslims to pray since they're already starting to teach Islam and use the Koran in their school. In America today, we have no room for the Bible but we make room for the Koran.
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Just like the pledge of alligence to the flag was restricted from schools because it had "under god" in it.
Most business have to accommodate to people's religion because they fear lawsuits. I have worked in retail where they weren't will to do so and no one I know of sued the place. So it does really depend on the business.
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If it exceeds the amount of breaks that they're given then they'll have to do so without pay.
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One exception opens the door to all exceptions. Some people are just gaming the system now. Not exclusive to one particular group of people, but now that Pandora's Box has been opened... The only true remedy now is to have a zero tolerance policy. Which some people have tried to enforce, only to have it come back to bite them in the ass.
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Well if you CONs would have foot noted religious freedom bills to EXCLUDE Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, basically anybody who doesn't worship the same god as you do, then you wouldn't have this problem.
But now these religious group want to exercise the gift you gave them and you have the nerve to tell them to shut up about it? You guys are the absolute scum of the earth.
like Lexicon said, you opened up Pandora's Box, now live with it.
P.S. A while back I posted that these two guys from some production factory in the Midwest tried to sue their company for not allow them to take off "Christian" holidays...So I see no problem with Muslims wanting their equal share of the right you so graciously bestowed upon them.
HA!!!! Poetic Justice.
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It would be nice but companies shouldn't have to do it. If the company wants their companies happy, they can provide those service. For example, a company can provide a gym, a swimming pool, and a gaming room to keep their employees happy. But a company doesn't have to provide any of those things if they do not want it.
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Well if you CONs would have foot noted religious freedom bills to EXCLUDE Muslims, Hindus, Buddhist, basically anybody who doesn't worship the same god as you do, then you wouldn't have this problem.
But now these religious group want to exercise the gift you gave them and you have the nerve to tell them to shut up about it? You guys are the absolute scum of the earth.
like Lexicon said, you opened up Pandora's Box, now live with it.
P.S. A while back I posted that these two guys from some production factory in the Midwest tried to sue their company for not allow them to take off "Christian" holidays...So I see no problem with Muslims wanting their equal share of the right you so graciously bestowed upon them.
HA!!!! Poetic Justice.
Evil, Evil, Evil... you're missing the point. Where is it in the law that allows Christians to take break for prayers during work hours? We're not talking about holidays. Christians are supposed to pray in the morning, before meals and before bedtime... Do you see anywhere in America that Christian wanting break time to pray? Beside, Christians don't have special holidays off from work. Christian are off from work on holidays that atheist and other religions are off too.
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Evil, Evil, Evil... you're missing the point. Where is it in the law that allows Christians to take break for prayers during work hours? We're not talking about holidays. Christians are supposed to pray in the morning, before meals and before bedtime... Do you see anywhere in America that Christian wanting break time to pray? Beside, Christians don't have special holidays off from work. Christian are off from work on holidays that atheist and other religions are off too.
I understand your argument and even agree to some degree, but you have to get your facts straight first.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Title VII of The Civil Rights Act of 1964
https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/workplace_religious_accommodation.cfm (https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/newsroom/wysk/workplace_religious_accommodation.cfm)
This relates to Religious Accomdations
And lastly Christians have the only federally recognized day off, Christmas. Christians make up about 76% of the United States population but only half identify Christmas as a Christian Holiday. The other half identify Christmas as a Cultural Holiday.
This info wasn't even difficult getting access to. As I've said before, before you pretend assumptions are facts, know the subject.
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I think a company can put in a claim that they cannot tolerate any of that stuff. No unions, no religious practices, etc. The company could state that they are losing money or production time based off of it. But the best way to do it is hit their paychecks. If a number of employees suddenly leave production time to pray then that's down time. Congratulation s, you're now part time. If they do it during their break time I have no issue with it. It's not fair for everyone else who is working harder.
Don't like it then don't work there. You could claim religious this or that but this is work and the company, all the employees are counting on everyone to be a part of the machine and not a loose cog. If the work required you to speak, read and write English and you can't then oh well you aren't qualified for the position.
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I think a company can put in a claim that they cannot tolerate any of that stuff. No unions, no religious practices, etc. The company could state that they are losing money or production time based off of it. But the best way to do it is hit their paychecks. If a number of employees suddenly leave production time to pray then that's down time. Congratulation s, you're now part time. If they do it during their break time I have no issue with it. It's not fair for everyone else who is working harder.
Don't like it then don't work there. You could claim religious this or that but this is work and the company, all the employees are counting on everyone to be a part of the machine and not a loose cog. If the work required you to speak, read and write English and you can't then oh well you aren't qualified for the position.
This is when you can debate EEO vs cheap labor. As an employer you need to do you due diligence.
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And lastly Christians have the only federally recognized day off...
Apparently Hung doesn't understand that their are more holidays in the Christian faith then just Christmas...bu t thanks for pointing that out to him.
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Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
There you go... that's your answer right there. Their lawsuit for employers to provide said times for prayers is not required by law. If they're going to force employers to do so for Muslims, they should do it all to other religions as well.
And lastly Christians have the only federally recognized day off, Christmas. Christians make up about 76% of the United States population but only half identify Christmas as a Christian Holiday. The other half identify Christmas as a Cultural Holiday.
There's your other answer there... Christmas is not a Christian holiday. Some may think so, but other don't. It's for Santa and gift exchanges. But are we talking about holidays here? I understand if they want a holiday for their festival, but it should be just for them and it's up to the employers to give it or not. Any employer can opt out Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, etc. It's not a freakin law and people are not going to sue their employers if they don't get them.
Apparently Hung doesn't understand that their are more holidays in the Christian faith then just Christmas...bu t thanks for pointing that out to him.
Obviously you don't understand that those holidays are not Christian holidays. If they were, all Christian and none Christian would all see it as a Christian holiday. If you would do a little googling, you'll learn that Christmas was never a Christian holiday nor was it ever relate to Christ's birth as many of you think. All the other holidays are the same...
But again, the point was not about holidays... It's about forcing employers to provide special sessions for one religion to practice their faith... and Lex just posted what the law says about that.
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Ok, let me clarify this;
The 1st Amendment served to treat all religions equally. Thus no law should be made to respect one religion above another. Title VII was then established for employers to accommodate the religious beliefs and practices of all applicant, falling under Equal Employment Opportunity . Hand in hand, in layman's term, Muslims would be able to file a lawsuit under EEO Title VII for Religious Accommodation. But so could Christians, Jews and etc. The law says the employer MUST accommodate their religious practices. And yes, they DO "force" the employers to accommodate ALL religions. No where does it say only Muslims have this right.
Secondly, the debate is ongoing about Christmas. Some, like Christians, believe it is a religious holiday. Others suggest it is secular and not religious. If YOU don't believe it to be a religious holiday, than you can't argue against groups taking the religious themes out of the holiday, ie Starbucks and the color of their cups and the change from Merry Christmas to Happy Holiday. You can't argue for religion and against PC. It's either one or another.
Look, I respect you and your beliefs. But you're not understanding all the facts. Muslims have no more rights than we do. I'm Christian myself. You can't cry foul and make up arguments if they exercise their rights. Which would be THE SAME EXACT RIGHTS AS OUR RIGHTS. I am trying to be tactful here but your arguments stink of subtle xenophobia dressed up in constitutional clothing.
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Obviously you don't understand that those holidays are not Christian holidays. If they were, all Christian and none Christian would all see it as a Christian holiday. If you would do a little googling, you'll learn that Christmas was never a Christian holiday nor was it ever relate to Christ's birth as many of you think. All the other holidays are the same...
Sigh...I'll let Lexicon handle this one, since you're not "getting it."
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Ok, let me clarify this;
Hand in hand, in layman's term, Muslims would be able to file a lawsuit under EEO Title VII for Religious Accommodation. But so could Christians, Jews and etc. The law says the employer MUST accommodate their religious practices. And yes, they DO "force" the employers to accommodate ALL religions. No where does it say only Muslims have this right.
Read your law again... it does say that employers are to accommodate all religion but it goes on from there... Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on religion. This includes refusing to accommodate an employee's sincerely held religious beliefs or practices unless the accommodation would impose an undue hardship...
I've only argue that this lawsuit is crap because no other religion is needing special treatment, so why does Muslim need it? And the fact that why can't Muslims pray during break and lunch. Why force employers to have special session for them? What happens to an assembly line when two or more people leave?
Secondly, the debate is ongoing about Christmas. Some, like Christians, believe it is a religious holiday. Others suggest it is secular and not religious. If YOU don't believe it to be a religious holiday, than you can't argue against groups taking the religious themes out of the holiday, ie Starbucks and the color of their cups and the change from Merry Christmas to Happy Holiday. You can't argue for religion and against PC. It's either one or another.
No, the debate was never about Christian holidy, some Pher here injected that into the debate to support his "Muslims' right". I'm not arguing about some taking it as religious and other aren't... but again that same Pher here seem to think that since some Christian take it as a religious holiday, it must be a Christian holiday. Therefore, Muslim have the rights for their special prayer sessions.
Look, I respect you and your beliefs. But you're not understanding all the facts. Muslims have no more rights than we do. I'm Christian myself. You can't cry foul and make up arguments if they exercise their rights. Which would be THE SAME EXACT RIGHTS AS OUR RIGHTS. I am trying to be tactful here but your arguments stink of subtle xenophobia dressed up in constitutional clothing.
Really? Muslim have as much right as we do? You don't understand my post, do you? I'm not here arguing that Muslim don't have rights while Christian or other have rights. My argument is that Muslims don't have a right to force employers to create special sessions for them to practice their religious rituals when said rituals can be done outside of work time. And such accommodation would create hardship for the employers.
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Pass the law and I will convert to muslim but only on paper. I want my 5 breaks so I can go to my car and get a puff of that coca. :2funny:
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Nvm. This is lost on you. GL.
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Quite fitting isn't it? We let in terrorists, racists, muslims, and so on. into our educational institutions. But Jesus isn't allowed in.
Which is why the Christians claim at the end of days, everyone will go to hell except them. :2funny:
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Some people never judge themselves the same way they would judge others, eh?
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Tai Lau. That is the most coherent message I have ever read from you. Who hacked into your account?
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Just like the pledge of alligence to the flag was restricted from schools because it had "under god" in it.
True, a lot of schools don't do this anymore. Fortunately, my daughter's grade school still does it.