What do you use to code HTML5 and CSS3?

[zena]

It's been a long time since I've hard coded HTML (and CSS but rarely).

I used notepad and Dreamweaver but mine is so outdated and on the PC.  I'm on a mac now and want to know if anyone hardcodes.  Also, what coding software do you use?

And, what are your thoughts on HTML5 and CSS3??

Thanks.

[Diemos]

Despite hard coding HTML being more time involved, it produces much cleaner code (well I guess that depends on the skill level of the programmer) as compared to WYSIWYG editors. Even when I am using Dreamweaver, I hard code everything as oppose to letting the editor generate the HTML code for me. You might ask why bother using Dreamweaver at all. I use it simply as an IDE (a workspace if you will) so that I don't have to ALT+TAB (between editor windows) or CTRL+TAB (between editor tabs) all day long. However, although Dreamweaver have some server side language support, its fairly weak. For heavy server side language coding, I tend to use Komodo or Netbeans to supplement Dreamweaver.

As for HTML5/CSS3, they are still quite far away from being ratified as a web standard by the W3C. Several browsers have began early support for some HTML5/CSS3 code but is by no means complete. At this point in time, I'd suggest the usage of HTML5/CSS3 to be kept to a minimal, and if possible, not use them at all. Do a Google search for percentage of browsers being used on the web and you will find that a lot of folks still use outdated browsers (such as IE6). Including HTML5/CSS3 can basically cause your site to render incorrectly for a lot of folks, thus limiting your audience to the tech geeks who's got the latest nightly build of "insert browser name here".

Despite what Steve Jobs says about Flash no longer being relevant due to HTML5 ability to embed video, there are lots of things that Flash can do that HTML5 simply cannot reproduce. HTML5 will not be the solution to all web developer's problem. It is simply an evolution and not a revolution.

[zena]

IC.  Thanks for your input.  I've been reading a lot about HTML5/CSS3 and it sounds like quite a lot of people (some non-geeks) are using it and was not so sure if it was even worth it to learn it or if it would just be a waste of time.  I guess I don't want to be at the bottom end of coding this way, say, if it really does quickly become the norm.  We all know how fast technology comes and goes and same goes for coding (and programming).  

BTW, the one thing I really liked about Dreamweaver was the color coding. It made it so simple to see where all the tags were.  Notepad was difficult because everything was black.

[Diemos]

You are correct in that HTML5/CSS3 will become the norm, eventually. It doesn't hurt to start learning it now if time permits. Although, just be open minded that because it is not ratified yet, somethings may change before the final standard is agreed upon. Although I'd still suggest avoid using it heavily for the time being.

What you are referring to is syntax highlighting. A lot of advance text editors have similar features as well as popular development IDEs. Given that you are using a Mac, I would suggest you try Komodo Edit, Netbeans, or Eclipse as they are all free and cross platform. They're all great in their own respects with each having their own strength and weaknesses. Do note that they are definitely not your typical WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) HTML editor like Dreamweaver so they can appear a bit daunting at first. If you have time to fiddle around and explore about, give them three a try and see which best suits your need.

[jetter]

I do not code in HTML5 or CSS3 but I do code HTML, CSS and many others.  What I use for editing/coding HTML, CSS is a lot of WYSIWYG, aka Dreamweaver because it does generate good looking codes that are on par with any hand coded HTML developers.  Anyone saying otherwise is having issues accepting the fact that a program could generate such nice codes so fast.  Think of Dreamweaver like Visual Studio, where all the widgets are created for you by dragging and dropping; it is up to you as the developer to connect those widgets to something to make the magic happens.  I do not hear Visual developers complaining that the codes that visual studio produces for the widgets are ugly looking or not clean.

My editor of choice for editing HTML, CSS: Dreamweaver

[zena]

@Diemos thanks for your knowledge.  I'll have to take a look at the free ones you mentioned but it sounds like I'll have to go with Dreamweaver for business.

@jetter for the reasons you mentioned, when I buy, I'll go with Dreamweaver.  It's also what I am familiar with.  Thanks.

[the_almighty]

Editor of choice: Notepad++

[Diemos]

I do not code in HTML5 or CSS3 but I do code HTML, CSS and many others.  What I use for editing/coding HTML, CSS is a lot of WYSIWYG, aka Dreamweaver because it does generate good looking codes that are on par with any hand coded HTML developers.  Anyone saying otherwise is having issues accepting the fact that a program could generate such nice codes so fast.  Think of Dreamweaver like Visual Studio, where all the widgets are created for you by dragging and dropping; it is up to you as the developer to connect those widgets to something to make the magic happens.  I do not hear Visual developers complaining that the codes that visual studio produces for the widgets are ugly looking or not clean.

My editor of choice for editing HTML, CSS: Dreamweaver

Quite a theory you've got there, but I'd have to disagree. Dreamweaver, although much better than FrontPage at generating code, doesn't always generate clean code and has nothing to do with the reason you've mentioned. Perhaps you are not as strict on your coding standard, don't use much server side languages, do only simple editing, or just don't mind the extra code Dreamweaver generates.

Just an example, Dreamweaver generated this:

div {
   padding-top: 10px;
   padding-right: 15px;
   padding-bottom: 10px;
}

By hand, it could simply be written as:

div {
   padding: 10px 15px 10px 0px;
}

Your comparison of Dreamweaver to Visual Studio is not entirely accurate. Visual Studio uses a method similar to that of a MVC (Model-View-Controller), where the logic code is kept separate from the code for the interface. More often then not, you hardly see the auto generated code produced by VS for the user interface because they are stored in separate files (forms, resources, etc.). Clean or not clean, such auto generate code does not hinder hand coding done in the logic part of the program, and becomes less of an issue to complain over. Try embedding server side language (PHP, ASP, etc.) code within poorly formatted, dirty, or bloated HTML code and it becomes a real pain, hence the method behind the madness.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.

[jetter]

I hardly do HTML, CSS I work mainly with python, asp.net, vb.net, c#, php, sql, js, actionscript on a daily basis with different framework and software architecture that will make your head spin but when I do, I use dreamweaver because I can produce the same results that any hardcoded html developers can do with a click of a button.  In working with designers and developers, your methods is one way of creating the same results.

for example; I could write this in java, php etc:
if (<cond>){
<do something>
}else{
<do something>
}

why would I do that when I could accomplish the same thing with the tertiary operator?  It's just a matter of taste.  The end results is the same, unless you can show me the bycodes that both generates using the same compiler so that you can prove your point in optimization and overheads.

Visual Studio is just a really good ide for developing window base applicaitons, you can use what ever dev architecture you want.  It is by default not MVC for a fact, not even in their new .net framework (not until recently); that they bow down to MVC because of the learning curve.

My comparison is accurate when comparing IDE that generates widgets codes.

Why would you embed server script in html?  That was so back in php 4.0, and classic asp in your case.  You should start using mvc or adopt an existing software architecture / framework done by some other individual(s) if you cannot come up with your own.  Heck you might as well try out the mvp architecture if you are uncomfortable with mvc.

you are entitle to your opinion by b|tch|ing about coding standards.

[Diemos]

You can list all the languages you know and so can I just for the sake of seeing who has the bigger male genitals and exchange technical jargon back and forth but that would be just a big waste of time. This thread has ran off topic and I have no more to discuss with you, as clearly your immaturity level far exceeds mine. Not to mention, you need to get off your high horse. Therefore, I shall leave it that you and I are of different backgrounds with different mindset. To each his own.

[jetter]

Diemos,

I understand where you are coming from.  It's just my 2 cent.  Those are not the languages I know, they are the languages that I am using on a daily basis; it was to answer / clarify your assumption that I am not a script kiddie like you assume.  I threw in the software architecture because you copy and pasted the definition of mvc from somewhere.

I am only answering your questions and clarifying your assumptions.

[intel]

IDE => Visual Studios 2008/2010, Eclipse, Xcode

Everything I do, I prefer hard coding.  It's easier, faster, and to me, better.

[zena]

@diemos and jetter you both have different ways of coding (and programming).  just be cool with that.  I have not been coding for ages and I don't do any kind of programming so I am kind of clueless to programming nowadays (took programming in college but that's about it).  So, it's kind of pointless to debate/argue about it here.

@intel thanks.  For some reason, I've heard of Visual studio but I can't remember ever using it.  I'll have to take a look. 

[jetter]

@moonangel: as a developer, we learn to appreciate the different style in development because no one writes the same.  The comments are made to clarify that diemos is only complaining about his coding standards and not how the ide works.  If he says that the ide generates codes that are not to his standards than that is correct.