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Author Topic: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~  (Read 7308 times)

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Knaujmoob80

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~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« on: August 18, 2010, 09:18:35 AM »
  
Dear who may concerns,

Lately I’ve been seriously confused and irritated by a seeming issue with relation to Hmongs marriages.  I can’t figure out why it is even a problems to begin with.  I’ve never heard the term until recently, but apparently Hmongs (I’m not sure if this is general or only among certain classes) seem to be against marriages that create “double in-laws,” meaning that, for example, member Kang of the Kang family marries member Yang of the Yang family.  Then Member Kang  of the Kang family marries the sister/brother of member Yang of the Yang family.  The first marriage made them in-laws, but this second marriage creates what I’ve heard Hmongs term “double in-laws” which seems to have some stigma.  As far as I am concerned as a westerner, the second marriage has little to no bearing on anything since it isn’t incest or intermarriage, therefore I see no problem.  In fact, my father married by mother, and soon after that, my father’s brother married my mother’s sister.  I guess that creates double in-laws in my family, but since it’s neither incest nor intermarriage, I haven’t once heard any issues being brought up about it.  Could you explain if this “double in-laws” thing is really an issue, and if so, why? All I can think of is that the families are not being spread out far enough for maximum social networking and both sides of the family may end up being in one household, but since Hmongs family dynamics are changing, this doesn’t have to be the case.

I’ve also heard the English term “co-in-laws” to describe this, but again, I find no reports of issues with this arrangement other than in a few Hmongs instances.

And an update

I’ve done some more thinking…, and I thought about the collective culture that Hmongs is.  I thought that perhaps when a family marries another family, the WHOLE family in that household become in-laws as such, whereas in western societies, the distinctions between in-laws is limited more so to the ones who married into the family.  I, personally, would consider the sister of my brother-in-law just that, the sister of my brother-in-law, not an in-law herself since she did not marry into the family.

What about the groom;
What do you think? Personally, while this is the first I’ve heard of any potential stigma, I suspected that there might be something to it when my husband instantly came up with the Hmongs term for people in such arrangements: gyeobsadon or “a person doubly related by marriage”. Moreover, however illogical any stigma would be, there is certainly precedent too: until as late as 2000, Article Hmong Hlub Civil Code prohibited marriage between those of the same ancestral, regional clan (or local subgroup of Kangs, Hangs, or Vangs and so on), of which the largest had over couple million members. Or in short, somewhere between 10-20%% of the Hmongs population were literally forbidden to marry each other, with even the children of any de-facto unions discriminated against also because their out-of-wedlock status prohibited them from receiving national health insurance, let alone complicating inheritance and property rights.

But as it turned out in this case at least, my husband knew the term not because of any stigma that he’s aware of…rather, because he remembered such arrangements from dramas!

Probably there is nothing to worry about then, but if anyone could confirm that then I’m sure Curtis will appreciate it, and I’d be interested in hearing any other unusual stories about marriage and Hmongs families also. If you’d rather read more yourself though, then consider this series on the uncertain role of Neo-Confucianism in the similarities between Americans and Hmongs family forms, and especially how daughters-in-law are treated therein.

Update: Speaking of the importance of family names in Hmongs, today there was an interesting article in the alot of news about the trials and tribulations a Hmong man (and subsequently his family) had due to his Chinese ancestry.








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Vanganator

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2010, 03:18:31 AM »
You think too much, that's your problem  ::)  :idiot2: :idiot2:

OVER



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Offline Boost

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2010, 10:22:15 AM »
I'm pretty sure this isn't a story unless you're telling us your story.  Anyhow, the thumb of rule isn't likable if it doesn't favor the two individuals involved.  I completely understand the topic you are trying to elaborate on.  BUT rules are rules  :knuppel2:



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limelight

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2010, 10:28:11 AM »
i never heard that its a problem, taboo or stigma in hmong culture. two sets of brothers marry two sets of sisters .. or brother & sister marry another set of brother sister  -- not a problem at all as far as im concerned. where exaclty did u get this info from?

afaik here is whats taboo/prohibited in regards to marriage in hmong culture:

- marriage of two persons from same clan
- marriage of older brother to younger brothers widow (however vice-versa is whats traditionally acceptable - kwv yuav niam tij is ok usa! lol)
- intergeneratio nal marriage (eg, your uncle divorces his wife and you marry her. your nephew divorces his wife and you marry her. marrying your cousins [of different las names] children [your cousins children are considered your nieces & nephews)


however in regards to "intergeneratio nal marriage" .. theres always some who bend this rule. weirdest arrangement i have known is a woman marrying her first female cousins son. .. so before the marriage they were viv ncaus .. after the marriage they became poj & nyab!!!! . the two men who are father and son after the marriage technically per hmong culture could call each other brothers-in-law too!!! LOL




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almostfamous

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2010, 06:55:31 PM »
I have heard of this and it is frowned upon but not completey stigmatized or anything of that degree.  From what i've been told, it is frowned upon because when a set of brothers marry a set of sisters (blood siblings or close cousin siblings in both cases), the hmong superstition is that only one of the couples will have success ie only the first couple will be able to have children.



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precious_nkaujhli_chi

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2010, 03:05:25 PM »
talking about that, catch this....my male cousin married the older sister a few yrs ago.  then my nephew marries the younger sister.  i'm like, how are they going to call eachother.  i.e. - my males cousin used to call her tais and now nyab vs.  what about the children.  are they going to be introduced as grandpa or uncle.

then, i have another male cousin married the older sister and now my brother is married to the younger sister.  it's easier to call eachother, because the guys are counsins, vs. uncle & nephew.

insane callings...



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Offline saki saki

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 01:59:01 AM »
This happened very close to home.
My (friend) older bro marry the younger sis, then the younger bro went and marry the older sis of that house. Then the cousin from the same clan went and married the other sis of that house. Man it was mess up. Anyways the older bro n his wife got divorce and the two clan had a big a$$ fight. LOL. I was laughing my a$$ off when I heard the story cause I was like, W T F. How do they call each other. So when they love each other the two clans were cool, but the two went their own way. That's when hell breaks loose lol. Funny cause you end up with the other two that are still marry and you like W T   Hell.


« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 02:28:29 AM by saki saki »

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TamTSEEB!

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 01:56:25 PM »
 


Probably there is nothing to worry about then, but if anyone could confirm that then I’m sure Curtis will appreciate it, and I’d be interested in hearing any other unusual stories about marriage and Hmongs families also. If you’d rather read more yourself though, then consider this series on the uncertain role of Neo-Confucianism in the similarities between Americans and Hmongs family forms, and especially how daughters-in-law are treated therein.








I don't really care to speak to any points that you brought up.  My only concern is WTH is Curtis?!   :idiot2:



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Bob_J.D.

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 02:59:27 PM »
Ever hear the song, "I'm my own Grandpa"



bob



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passingby#2

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2011, 08:47:30 PM »
My family has a case like this too...doesn't seem to bother anyone.  ???



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buster_me

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Re: ~~~~DOUBLE "IN-LAWS" HMONG FAMILY~~~
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 06:17:25 PM »
this one guy i go to school with dated his bro in laws blood sister for which his bro in law married his blood sister. so  they can call each other Yawm Yij and Dab Laug interchangeabl e haha  :idiot2:



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