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Author Topic: Austen's Emma Discussions  (Read 30427 times)

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Austen's Emma Discussions
« on: November 21, 2010, 03:10:51 PM »
All right, group, let's start our discussions on Chapter 1 of this book: Emma, by Jane Austen.

There are many questions to answer. You may ask members any question you would like. You may tell everyone how you feel about the chapter, etc.

Things to think about to help you discuss this chapter are: what happened in this chapter? What do we know about or of Emma, the character, at this stage of the book?  How many characters are we meeting in this chapter?  What is the relationship between Emma and Ms. Weston like? What is the relationship between Emma and her father like?  Do you see any cultural aspects of  Emma's time in this novel? If so, what are they?

Those of you who know more about Jane Austen, the author, feel free to also discuss what she may be thinking about Emma--e.g. does she like Emma, does she not like Emma as seen in this chapter? What makes you say what you believe to be the case?  What do we know about Emma's community in this chapter? What is each character like--all the ones we have encountered in this chapter, that is? Etc.




« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 06:32:35 PM by Reporter »

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ThePhatSista

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2010, 04:38:45 PM »
Reporter you got the mind of a teacher, despite you being a lawyer, so start the lessons Mr. Lee  ;D



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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 06:30:32 PM »
Phat, do not rely on me to each or give any lessons. We are all  in this together and I am looking to learn from everyone else, too. Your opinions or thoughts are what count here.  

We are all going to read the chapter now through the earlier part of Thursday, Nov. 25th. We'll post up our discussions that evening around 5 or 6 p.m.  Actually, by Thursday, anyone can start posting. I just won't be able to do mine until later that day. But let's not post anything until then. We want people to read and understand the chapter themselves first.  If you have already read it, you should write down your thoughts somewhere else. Don't post anything here on Emma yet until then.


« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 12:35:58 PM by Reporter »

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2010, 04:32:52 PM »
Emma Woodhouse is about 21 years old, lives with a father and a governess but no longer has a mother.  Because of her wealthy situation and her upbringing where the adults did not discipline her much, she's been almost a brat--having too much her own way and thinking a little too highly of herself. So says the author.  The author sees this as a danger, although it's not clear what that really means. At least not at this point.  

Emma felt some pain and suffered emotionally tremendously after her governess, Mrs. Weston, got married and moved out a few miles out of town.  Her father, too, has suffered the same way. They both missed the governess, who used to keep them company.  

In Chapter 1, we see some descriptions of Emma's backgrounds, her father's situation, Mrs. Weston's marriage and a few others. Mrs. Weston's wedding took place in this chapter.  Mr. Knightley appears near the end of the chapter.   Mr. Knightley and Emma seem acquainted and had small friendly argument with each other. A friendly argument? How can an argument be friendly? You may ask. Well, that's just my say. You say it how you want it. ;D

The chapter seems very concerned about the detachment Emma and her father feels in Mrs. Weston's moving out of their house.  Not sure what meaning that has for the novel. But the author makes a big issue out of this.

There's gotta be more in this chapter than what I'm putting down. Help me out!


« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 05:18:59 PM by Reporter »

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ThePhatSista

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 05:25:42 PM »
I haven't forgotten the book club discussions. Will be pretty busy all weekend long but will make sure to post my response by Sunday. Back to grubbing.



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HisMystery

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 06:19:25 PM »
From what I got out of Chapter 1 is Jane getting readers more familiar with the characters of the book, especially Emma.  She also describes the relationship between Emma and her father fairly well.  In some ways, I could see how this relates to some of our Hmong women.  In the earlier years, Hmong young women live at home until they've been asked for their hand in marriage.  Her father has some detachment issues when his eldest daughter gets married and moves away.  Aside from this, Emma came across as snobbish to me, kind of like a Ms. Know It All.  She would be someone that I couldn't find myself being able to associate with.  I can't stand girls like that.  I do, however, have respect her for her adoration of her father.  I'm quite familiar of Jane Austen's background.  In a certain aspect, I would say Ms. Austen does have similarities to her character, Emma.  For example, both view marriage as not so much of an opportunity for themselves.

Thoughts?


« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 06:21:17 PM by HisMystery »

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2010, 08:18:32 PM »
I haven't forgotten the book club discussions. Will be pretty busy all weekend long but will make sure to post my response by Sunday. Back to grubbing.

Come forth!



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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2010, 08:31:41 PM »
From what I got out of Chapter 1 is Jane getting readers more familiar with the characters of the book, especially Emma.  She also describes the relationship between Emma and her father fairly well.  In some ways, I could see how this relates to some of our Hmong women.  In the earlier years, Hmong young women live at home until they've been asked for their hand in marriage.  Her father has some detachment issues when his eldest daughter gets married and moves away.  Aside from this, Emma came across as snobbish to me, kind of like a Ms. Know It All.  She would be someone that I couldn't find myself being able to associate with.  I can't stand girls like that.  I do, however, have respect her for her adoration of her father.  I'm quite familiar of Jane Austen's background.  In a certain aspect, I would say Ms. Austen does have similarities to her character, Emma.  For example, both view marriage as not so much of an opportunity for themselves.

Thoughts?

My view in life is that someone who tries to make matches is hoping to have someone else make one for her as well. So, Emma's interest in match-making for Ms. Taylor and claims to be interested in making one for Mr. Elton eventually--those are really just signs that she is hoping someone would find her a suitor as well. But that's just my opinion about life.

But Emma's match-making is not a complete match-making. Look at what Mr. Knightley says about it near the end of the chapter. Emma claims she had hoped that Ms. Taylor and Mr. Weston would work out since they first met. But she has not done much to encourage the relationship, has she? She does say she has smoothed out certain things. But Mr. Knightley does not seem convinced that those were enough  for match-making.  They don't talk about what really constitutes match-making--how many steps are involved, what one really has to do more to consider it one's success in it, etc.They just love to fight with each other, it seems.  But Mr. Knightley seems to think Emma has not done enough to deserve calling it her match-making success. Jane Austen does not go deeper into Emma's efforts. Instead, she turns the conversation back to a report on the wedding--just about who cried and who didn't.  

Authors really are not that different from their protaganists--or main characters. So, I agree with you, HisMystery, that Jane Austen is very much like Emma. ;D They are interested in putting other into marriages but seem to forget about themselves, correct?

Anyway, Emma's relationship with her father is very intimate, although she seems to think that her father is no match for Ms. Taylor (or Mrs. Weston). Emma addresses him as "papa," and seems to speak softly to him every time.  But Jane Austen tells us that her father just can't carry the same conversation with Emma that Ms. Taylor is able to do--even intelligence-wise.  Mr. Woodhouse is easily depressed, etc.  And there is no one else in not just Hartfield where Emma's house is but all over Highbury--the larger town-like village that Hartfield is also a tiny part of.  That is why Emma misses Ms. Taylor so much. Jane  Austen calls this moment a "sorrow" for Emma.   However, the intimacy between Mr. Woodhouse and Emma are probably unmatched in many other families, either.

I find it interesting that Emma's 21 years in Highbury has gotten her no other friends in that village except for Ms. Taylor.  As we are told, Ms. Taylor raised both her and her sister since Emma was five. She was more fond of Emma than with Isabella. Upon Isabella's marriage several years later, Ms. Taylor became closer to Emma. That closeness lasted about 7 years before Ms. Taylor finally married Mr. Weston and moved out. But even before she moved out, there was very little disciplining she imposed on Emma. They were friends such that no others have had, Jane Austen describes. Someone she could say anything to without fear, it seems. Emma respected Ms. Taylor's judgment but also dictated her own.  In short, she could speak her mind and yet no one would mind or told her she was wrong. That's probably why Jane Austen says Emma has thought a little too well of herself and that such is sure to "threaten alloy to her many enjoyments" in life. (Such personality devalues her enjoyments in life, that is.) Sounds like she is not going to get along with people. Just look at her fight with Mr. Knightley at the end of the chapter. Perhaps that's what we are going to see more of Emma?



« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 12:01:01 AM by Reporter »

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2010, 08:50:20 PM »
Let me draw some graphs about the locations of these people in England.

Highbury (Hartfield, just lawns/shrubberries apart)<-----1/2 mile---->Randalls<---------->15.5 miles-------->London
(Mr. Woodhouse, Emma Woodhouse)                                            (Mrs. Weston/                                        [Isabella (Emma's sister),
(James)                                                                                                        Mr. Weston)
                                                    hubby + children]
                 ^                                                                                                          
                 |
                 |
                 |
               1 mile
                 |
                 |
   Brunswick Square
     (Mr. Knightley)

Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm actually not sure about Mr. Knightley's location.


« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 12:02:38 AM by Reporter »

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2010, 08:51:22 PM »
I enjoyed pride and prejudice, thus I will go and purchase a copy of Emma and join this virtual book club.

Sounds good, boO. And we'll all get to Pride and Prejudice some times, too.



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ThePhatSista

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2010, 11:07:23 PM »
Come forth!

I said tomorrow tso. Tonite I'm busy.  8)



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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2010, 11:37:48 PM »
I said tomorrow tso. Tonite I'm busy.  8)

OK. Come forth when you are ready tomorrow.



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ThePhatSista

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2010, 11:05:34 PM »
My view in life is that someone who tries to make matches is hoping to have someone else make one for her as well. So, Emma's interest in match-making for Ms. Taylor and claims to be interested in making one for Mr. Elton eventually--those are really just signs that she is hoping someone would find her a suitor as well. But that's just my opinion about life.

But Emma's match-making is not a complete match-making. Look at what Mr. Knightley says about it near the end of the chapter. Emma claims she had hoped that Ms. Taylor and Mr. Weston would work out since they first met. But she has not done much to encourage the relationship, has she? She does say she has smoothed out certain things. But Mr. Knightley does not seem convinced that those were enough  for match-making.  They don't talk about what really constitutes match-making--how many steps are involved, what one really has to do more to consider it one's success in it, etc.They just love to fight with each other, it seems.  But Mr. Knightley seems to think Emma has not done enough to deserve calling it her match-making success. Jane Austen does not go deeper into Emma's efforts. Instead, she turns the conversation back to a report on the wedding--just about who cried and who didn't.  

Authors really are not that different from their protaganists--or main characters. So, I agree with you, HisMystery, that Jane Austen is very much like Emma. ;D They are interested in putting other into marriages but seem to forget about themselves, correct?

Anyway, Emma's relationship with her father is very intimate, although she seems to think that her father is no match for Ms. Taylor (or Mrs. Weston). Emma addresses him as "papa," and seems to speak softly to him every time.  But Jane Austen tells us that her father just can't carry the same conversation with Emma that Ms. Taylor is able to do--even intelligence-wise.  Mr. Woodhouse is easily depressed, etc.  And there is no one else in not just Hartfield where Emma's house is but all over Highbury--the larger town-like village that Hartfield is also a tiny part of.  That is why Emma misses Ms. Taylor so much. Jane  Austen calls this moment a "sorrow" for Emma.   However, the intimacy between Mr. Woodhouse and Emma are probably unmatched in many other families, either.

I find it interesting that Emma's 21 years in Highbury has gotten her no other friends in that village except for Ms. Taylor.  As we are told, Ms. Taylor raised both her and her sister since Emma was five. She was more fond of Emma than with Isabella. Upon Isabella's marriage several years later, Ms. Taylor became closer to Emma. That closeness lasted about 7 years before Ms. Taylor finally married Mr. Weston and moved out. But even before she moved out, there was very little disciplining she imposed on Emma. They were friends such that no others have had, Jane Austen describes. Someone she could say anything to without fear, it seems. Emma respected Ms. Taylor's judgment but also dictated her own.  In short, she could speak her mind and yet no one would mind or told her she was wrong. That's probably why Jane Austen says Emma has thought a little too well of herself and that such is sure to "threaten alloy to her many enjoyments" in life. (Such personality devalues her enjoyments in life, that is.) Sounds like she is not going to get along with people. Just look at her fight with Mr. Knightley at the end of the chapter. Perhaps that's what we are going to see more of Emma?



How can I top this when you've already explained it all.  ::) Emma is self-assured, self-aware, but also self-deluding at 21 years. We'll have to wait and discover more of her in the upcoming chapters.



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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2010, 11:56:24 PM »
How can I top this when you've already explained it all.  ::) Emma is self-assured, self-aware, but also self-deluding at 21 years. We'll have to wait and discover more of her in the upcoming chapters.

My views aren't necessarily accurate. It's just a matter of personal opinions. So, state yours.

What makes you  think she's self-assured, self-aware?



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ThePhatSista

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Re: Austen's Emma Discussions
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2010, 01:25:42 AM »
Reporter, knuckleheads are distracting and pissing me off so I can't concentrate right now. When is the next discussion due? I feel as if I'm in an english lit class all over again hehe.



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