Marriage within same clan

[PRINCESS.]

I have an aunt and uncle, first cousins, different last names who married each other and had 10 children. The children all have mutant deformities and health problems.

Just thought I share.

[night912]

how is this not related to debate?

so many kids these day do not even know who their relatives are.  when they meet at hmong parties... they dib eachother like hluas nkauj hluas nruag because they think they are soooo westernize and don't care for culture.   

The topic is about the taboo marriage within same clan.
Against same clan marriage: the boy and girl shouldn't even be dating
For same clan marriage: the boy and girl shouldn't be dating if they are closely related

[theking]

I have an aunt and uncle, first cousins, different last names who married each other and had 10 children. The children all have mutant deformities and health problems.

Just thought I share.

Yep. Which why it makes zero sense that Hmorons accept blood related family members marrying but not non-blood related strangers with the same last name marrying.

[pseudonym]

I have an aunt and uncle, first cousins, different last names who married each other and had 10 children. The children all have mutant deformities and health problems.

Just thought I share.

coincidentally, I have a cousin who has the same last name as his wife, they married, had 4 children, and are financially successful and happy.  all of the children are healthy, spiritually grounded, and are intelligent.

then I have another cousin who was intelligent, ambitious, and outgoing, - who was forbidden to marry his same last name girlfriend and ended up committing suicide.

[theking]

coincidentally, I have a cousin who has the same last name as his wife, they married, had 4 children, and are financially successful and happy.  all of the children are healthy, spiritually grounded, and are intelligent.

then I have another cousin who was intelligent, ambitious, and outgoing, - who was forbidden to marry his same last name girlfriend and ended up committing suicide.

Damn, sorry to hear about that unneccessary tradedy. He should have just man up and live his life...

[Believe_N_Me]

You know that marrying same last name is a social taboo, but who have difficulty to understand that social taboo is established by societ. Societ is established by the people. Therefore, if societ is progressed to a higher level, social taboos that don't make sense, such as this subject, should be dropped. Yes, this matter might make sense way back then when Hmong lived in the mountain as scattered, isolated, and small villages, but it doesn't make sense in this modern life here in America. Therefore, it's up to the people to lift it. Changing on the personal level doe not lift the taboo. On the other hand, this taboo confuses Hmong that since they can't marry someone with the same last name, then it's right to marry someone with blood related but different last name.

You are always wrong with your judgment, so stop judging and start listening. No, we are not here on a mission to be white. We are here on a mission to modify our culture to be an "organized culture", and that's it. Therefor, it's not about you and me that can do it. It's about everyone getting involved to get it done.

I do respect your perspective, so don't piss off. Yes, we are here to respond to each other, and there is nothing wrong with that. I guess all I can say to you is that if you want to stay with the same perch, it seems to be your only option, then that's ok. I have wing, and I have multiple perches, so I will fly to perch on the one that suits my current life. After all, we will just have to cast our vote some day. I'm tired of talking to people who don't see the value of change, so I will just leave it here.

But you're not listening.

What I'm saying is that this issue you bring up is of very little concern to the Hmong. The majority of Hmong people are fine dating outside their own clan name. They don't have problems finding a mate from a different clan. Furthermore, because our social structure is a clan system it makes perfect sense not to court within your own clan name. It's a non-issue.


 

[CheejSiav]

And since there are so many women in this world I suggest we legalize polygamy again. Would you agree with me?

[Xyooj-Man]

Not a good idea, so many people in the world why fall in love with someone whom could be your cousins. Don't see anything wrong with it but there probably are stories of why we can't do it.

[theking]

And since there are so many women in this world I suggest we legalize polygamy again. Would you agree with me?

Good luck finding enough women willing to participate in that caveman practice. The Hmong women here are empowered and know they can get real help when needed, not like the oppressed ones in Laos and other oppressed societies. I've posted that question a couple of times to women that claimed to be super traditional and in support of all Hmong practice and customs of the Hmong culture and all you hear is crickets  . Therefore, as I've said, good luck finding enough women to be apart of polygamy. Not gonna happen in this great land imo.

[CheejSiav]

Quote from: CheejSiav on May 15, 2013, 11:52:20 AM
Good luck finding enough women willing to participate in that caveman practice. The Hmong women here are empowered and know they can get real help when needed, not like the oppressed ones in Laos and other oppressed societies. I've posted that question a couple of times to women that claimed to be super traditional and in support of all Hmong practice and customs of the Hmong culture and all you hear is crickets  . Therefore, as I've said, good luck finding enough women to be apart of polygamy. Not gonna happen in this great land imo.

You know I actually know a few women that do want to be a second wife but they are mostly widows. If I become president then I will legalize it for the better reasons. There are just too much people just trying too hard looking for the right one and some guys does have all the attributes to handle a few women.

[HUNG TU LO]

You know I actually know a few women that do want to be a second wife but they are mostly widows.

Case closed. You just summed up your entire argument there. The only ones wanting to be in a polygamous relationship are those that have nothing else going for them.

If I become president then I will legalize it for the better reasons.

This isn't the dark ages where more children and wives means more hands at working. A large polygamous family is actually at a disadvantage. Modern institutions such as law enforcement, legal, public education, social security, employment, bank financing, makes a small monogamous family on equal grounds with a large family. You don't have more power as a large, polygamous family. Cramming 20 people into a 4 bedroom, two-story home is surviving, not thriving. I don't know what they go through. You don't know what they go through. But if you were to interview teens and young adults in 2013 who come from a polygamous family, I highly doubt a single person would say "Yes, it's great and other people should try it!"

[CheejSiav]

Case closed. You just summed up your entire argument there. The only ones wanting to be in a polygamous relationship are those that have nothing else going for them.
This isn't the dark ages where more children and wives means more hands at working. A large polygamous family is actually at a disadvantage. Modern institutions such as law enforcement, legal, public education, social security, employment, bank financing, makes a small monogamous family on equal grounds with a large family. You don't have more power as a large, polygamous family. Cramming 20 people into a 4 bedroom, two-story home is surviving, not thriving. I don't know what they go through. You don't know what they go through. But if you were to interview teens and young adults in 2013 who come from a polygamous family, I highly doubt a single person would say "Yes, it's great and other people should try it!"

Yes I agree that it's bad but on the other hand additional income means thriving to the world. But I understand that kids will grow up not having a father figure because it will be hard trying to just watch over 4

[HUNG TU LO]

Yes I agree that it's bad but on the other hand additional income means thriving to the world.

Additional children (additional income) doesn't make a family thrive because that extra mouth means more food is required, the electricity and water bill rises, and it all evens out in the end. But like I said, what happens now is you have a Hmong family packed like sardines into a 2,000sq.ft house.

If this were the case, Hmong, Laotian, Mexican, and Amish people would be better off. Instead, large polygamous families experience the pathological social issues of low education, poverty, poor health, emotional detachment from parents, crimes, drugs, unplanned pregnancy, and a lifetime of broken intimate relationships.

Polygamy serves ZERO purpose in modern society. I could care less if it was legal or not. The point is, children brought up in a monogamous relationship starts out tens of steps ahead of a child raise in polygamy.

When was the last time you saw a polygamous family and the majority of the children had no issues with (promiscuous) sex, drugs, crime, low education, low employment, etc.? None.

[CheejSiav]

Additional children (additional income) doesn't make a family thrive because that extra mouth means more food is required, the electricity and water bill rises, and it all evens out in the end. But like I said, what happens now is you have a Hmong family packed like sardines into a 2,000sq.ft house.

If this were the case, Hmong, Laotian, Mexican, and Amish people would be better off. Instead, large polygamous families experience the pathological social issues of low education, poverty, poor health, emotional detachment from parents, crimes, drugs, unplanned pregnancy, and a lifetime of broken intimate relationships.

Polygamy serves ZERO purpose in modern society. I could care less if it was legal or not. The point is, children brought up in a monogamous relationship starts out tens of steps ahead of a child raise in polygamy.

When was the last time you saw a polygamous family and the majority of the children had no issues with (promiscuous) sex, drugs, crime, low education, low employment, etc.? None.


I understand your point because I have uncles that still practice polygamy and I have seen how their kid grew up like. monogamy does have more stability to the family relations

[TubMTT]

What you guys think about same clan marriage? Can we lift that taboo?

Kuv thib nawb.  Kuv yuav thaam le kuv kev xaav.  Kuv thaam rua sau rooj, yaam yog los ho yuav ho yaam tsiyog los ho muab pobtseg.

Kuv xaav mas,
Peb tsitxhob ntseeg2 tej laug, tej pojkoob yawmtxiv tej lug. Peb nyob lub ntuj tshab lawm, peb yuav tau pauv, hloov moog rua qhov zoo. 

Yog coj le cov laug coj es txiv tsipub yug xeem rov sibyuav. Lossis 2cousins tsipub sibyuav.  Cov laug puab ua neej lug tau ntau tam xyoo. Yog uale puab zeej zoo dlua ces peb Moob tub vaam meej hab muaj nom, muajtswv hab muaj lajaav teb chaws lawm.  Ntau tam lug lawm, peb Moob tub tsizoo dlaab tsi.  Peb poob aav luj rua Suav.  Peb poob teb poobchaw, txhajle tau tswv tuaj txug lub tebchaw thib3.  Peb yuav tsum tig lug saib txhua haiv neeg huv nplajteb nuav ua neej.

Lub xeem tsi tseemceeb rua luas.  Qhov tseem ceeb ces yog haiv tuabneeg ntawm xwb.  Haiv tuab neeg txawj sib hlub, sibpaab, txawj ntse hab zoonkauj zoonraug.

Mej yeej paub tas, cov zoonkauj apply txug twg los tau haujlwm ua.  Tub zoonraug, taug hauj lwm ua.  Tub/ntxhais txawj ntse, tau ua nom, ua tswv.

Yog koj yug tau ib tug tub, kawm tau ntawv zoo heev, txawj/ntse hab zoonraug heev.  Kuj cas nwg yuav koj ib tug ntxhais. Koj txhajle muaj noob zoonkauj, zoonraug, noob txawj/ntse.

Yog koj yug tau ib tug ntxhais, kawm tau ntawv zoo heev, hab zoonkauj heev, koj ca yuav koj tug tub lossis cas yuav koj cov kwvtij le tub.  Koj txhajle muaj noob txawj/ntse hab tej tubki txhajle zoonkauj zoonraug.

Qhov tseeb, tej kwvtij, tijtub kwvtub, yeej muaj kev sibhlub tshaaj le tug kws kem lawm.  Yug cov noob txhajle tsi poob rua luas.  Koj yug muaj ib tug tub zoonraug hab txawjntse heev tabsis, moog nrhav tau ibtug nyaab ruam lossis dlaabtuag, nwg cov mivnyuas yeej ruam hab dlaabtuag.

Tsitaagle, yog moog yuav tug saab nrau, tseem muajplaub muajntug, muajxaiv muajlug. 

Txhua yaam kws cov laug has tas txhum cai.  Moob yeej tsi muaj cai.  Moob cov laug ib txwm has tas, "Moob cai ces yog Dlev Npua Cai" xwb.  Yoglentawm, tej cai ntawm, tsi tseem ceeb dlaabtsi. 

Txhua yaam kws cov laug hastas, txhum dlaab, lossis txhuam cai.  Yeej tsi muaj cai kws yuav txhum.  Hab yeej tsi txhum dlaab.  Yog txhum tes yog txhum neej xwb. 

Koj yuav tau ibtug quaspuj, koj tub muab nwg lub xeem lug hloov ua yug lub xeem.  Qhov ntawm hos txawv le caag?  Es koj tug tug moog yuav koj tug muam tug ntxhais ho txawv le caag?  Same blood? LOL. Koj tijlaug tuag lawm es koj ho yuav namtij, ho txawv le caag? 

Koj tug tub tsi yuav koj tijlaug tug ntxhais.  Tabsis, koj tug tub yuav tau koj tug txivntxawm (uncle) tug ntxhais.  Taug kawg.  Ib lub xeem, yuav tau kawg. 

Mej pistsawg leej pumzoo le kuv has?