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Author Topic: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.  (Read 12854 times)

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I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« on: August 11, 2013, 10:32:21 PM »
I hadn't paid much attention to it. Not until I read a summary on Facebook about Panhia Vue's incident in Wisconsin. But I have been so disturbed by this news that at first I've shaken every time I thought about the incident. And I thought about it a lot each day. So shaken and so disturbed that I decided to go to the funeral in Eau Claire, WI, on August 1, 2013.

Before that, I had read a piece of news about her being killed by her husband Ying Xiong. But I took that to be normal news nowadays, since there have been constant news about domestic killings in our community.

But Panhia Vue's case took a sharp twist from the rest: neither of the two Hmong clans involved in her life did her funeral; while her corpse was rotting in the morgue, a mainstream women organization took over the funeral for the Hmong.

The news further stated that the Hmong women are not happy about how Panhia Vue's corpse was handled and all fingers had been pointed to the 18 Clan Council in Wisconsin for the failure to provide a traditional funeral for Panhia Vue's corpse. The women's position was: if Panhia Vue was a Hmong man, she would have received  a proper traditional funeral; but since she's a Hmong woman, the male clan leaders have let her body rot without funeral attention.

The women wanted equality. They now question whether the 18 Clan Council should be allowed to operate its policies over the Hmong or if it should even continue to exist at all.

All of these made me realize the Hmong still need a lot of guidance in life--old and young, traditional and those that aren't.

In fact, both of the clans involved in Panhia Vue's case are traditional Hmong clans. Neither has converted to Christianity. We make the distinction in that respect, despite the fact that members of those clans have lived in America for over 30 years.

In these last few weeks, and today, too, I've been constantly bothered by this case. How could they let a body rot in the face of the rest of the world? Why was their conflict so strong as to make them completely insensitive to Panhia Vue's rotting corpse, no matter what kind of reputation she may have had while alive? Questions and just more questions without answers. Well, I have my answers but those are in my diary, not in this journal.




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Lavender

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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 12:44:57 AM »
This is organization of women Hmong or Mekas? 

Kuv ib txwm xav hais tias yus ua neeg nyob yus yuav tsum xav txog txoj kev sib pab thiab txoj kev ua zoo.  Feem ntau yus cia li act upon tej yam  uas tsis raws kev raws cai.  Lawv cov neeg paub dab qhuas thiab kev cai, lawv hais cai xwb.  Muab xav los yeej tsis make sense thiab.

As to your question whether 18clan should hold policies, I am interesting to what they have to say about this and their perspectives of how the organization handled or took over this case?  Mostly what's their claim on to why they reject taking responsibility?



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Producer

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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 01:02:37 AM »
I hadn't paid much attention to it. Not until I read a summary on Facebook about Panhia Vue's incident in Wisconsin. But I have been so disturbed by this news that at first I've shaken every time I thought about the incident. And I thought about it a lot each day. So shaken and so disturbed that I decided to go to the funeral in Eau Claire, WI, on August 1, 2013.

Before that, I had read a piece of news about her being killed by her husband Ying Xiong. But I took that to be normal news nowadays, since there have been constant news about domestic killings in our community.

But Panhia Vue's case took a sharp twist from the rest: neither of the two Hmong clans involved in her life did her funeral; while her corpse was rotting in the morgue, a mainstream women organization took over the funeral for the Hmong.

The news further stated that the Hmong women are not happy about how Panhia Vue's corpse was handled and all fingers had been pointed to the 18 Clan Council in Wisconsin for the failure to provide a traditional funeral for Panhia Vue's corpse. The women's position was: if Panhia Vue was a Hmong man, she would have received  a proper traditional funeral; but since she's a Hmong woman, the male clan leaders have let her body rot without funeral attention.

The women wanted equality. They now question whether the 18 Clan Council should be allowed to operate its policies over the Hmong or if it should even continue to exist at all.

All of these made me realize the Hmong still need a lot of guidance in life--old and young, traditional and those that aren't.

In fact, both of the clans involved in Panhia Vue's case are traditional Hmong clans. Neither has converted to Christianity. We make the distinction in that respect, despite the fact that members of those clans have lived in America for over 30 years.

In these last few weeks, and today, too, I've been constantly bothered by this case. How could they let a body rot in the face of the rest of the world? Why was their conflict so strong as to make them completely insensitive to Panhia Vue's rotting corpse, no matter what kind of reputation she may have had while alive? Questions and just more questions without answers. Well, I have my answers but those are in my diary, not in this journal.



she cheated on her first marriage and the man that kill her was her second marriage. infidelity is probably the cause i assume..



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Lavender

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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2013, 01:11:20 AM »
she cheated on her first marriage and the man that kill her was her second marriage. infidelity is probably the cause i assume..
Perhaps that's the reason the Xiong denied the responsibility .  According to Hmong culture, it's a valid cause. 

Reporter, if this the case then, the women organization had done the right thing.  Because it is gender discrimination .  I agree that if the man is to cheat on the wife, a proper funeral would to be held for the man.  I guess this is something that needs to be changed from Hmong tradition.



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Mattster

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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 12:59:51 PM »
The 18xeem is outdated and impotent.  Its pointless to make policy if you do not have the authority to enforce them. At this point the 18xeem can only act in the form of cultural guidance.  If I'm not mistaken, half of the clan leaders failed to even show up.  This is a sad case of too much pride between the two families. There's plenty of fault to pass around.






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Wi_sweetguy

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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2013, 01:18:12 PM »
Tus neeg ua zoo yeej yuav tsum tau zoo xwb.  Vim li cas, panhia, nws niam thiab txiv tsis kav ua nws lub funeral nas? Teb zaub thaum nws ua neeg nyob, nws tsis mooj nws niam thaib txiv kaws rov lus.  Tu siab ntaus, vim hais tiag, teb laus yeej hlub teb memyuaj tas sis teb yaum lawm tus siab rau nws kaw siab kaw jus.

It's not how they died, but how they lived that matters. 



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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 12:28:19 AM »
This is organization of women Hmong or Mekas? 

Kuv ib txwm xav hais tias yus ua neeg nyob yus yuav tsum xav txog txoj kev sib pab thiab txoj kev ua zoo.  Feem ntau yus cia li act upon tej yam  uas tsis raws kev raws cai.  Lawv cov neeg paub dab qhuas thiab kev cai, lawv hais cai xwb.  Muab xav los yeej tsis make sense thiab.

As to your question whether 18clan should hold policies, I am interesting to what they have to say about this and their perspectives of how the organization handled or took over this case?  Mostly what's their claim on to why they reject taking responsibility?


At first 18 Clan Council said the case was never brought to them so they had no right to deal with it. Then the Hmong women's group insisted that the Council make a decision regardless, since it was their policy that created the $1,200.00 conflict.

The Council realized the American organization has taken over the corpse. But it still issued an order that the Xiongs pay the Vues $1, 200.00 for "kho ntsej kho muag" just because their Xiong killed the Vue.

The organization that took over the corpse is American but it worked with some Hmong women in this case.



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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 12:30:25 AM »
she cheated on her first marriage and the man that kill her was her second marriage. infidelity is probably the cause i assume..

Infidelity caused her death. But was it the cause of her funeral conflict? Maybe, huh?



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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 12:31:31 AM »
Perhaps that's the reason the Xiong denied the responsibility .  According to Hmong culture, it's a valid cause. 

Reporter, if this the case then, the women organization had done the right thing.  Because it is gender discrimination .  I agree that if the man is to cheat on the wife, a proper funeral would to be held for the man.  I guess this is something that needs to be changed from Hmong tradition.

I believe gender has something to do with it.



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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 12:36:34 AM »
Whether she cheated or not, they were not legally divorced by the american/hmong people. Therefore, he was still her legal husband and is responsible for her burial. Then, I also questioned her OWN family, how can they let her rott knowing that the husband's side is refusing to take responsibility . And why did it took the 18xeem so long to come up with a resolution? I questioned myself of the 18xeem actions because I felt that their purpose was to serve as a mediators and try to reticfy such situation. To me, she was very little value to everyone. They probably judged her by her past actions and didn't give a crap about how long she would be sitting in the morgue.



The Hmong women in WI said the leadership was probably not capable of acting under the circumstances.



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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 12:39:11 AM »
The 18xeem is outdated and impotent.  Its pointless to make policy if you do not have the authority to enforce them. At this point the 18xeem can only act in the form of cultural guidance.  If I'm not mistaken, half of the clan leaders failed to even show up.  This is a sad case of too much pride between the two families. There's plenty of fault to pass around.





Right. I agree.

I do sympathize with the Council's reps. They really have no authority over the community except those who have chosen them to mediate issues. Yet the Council acts like it is the authority of the entire Hmong community in everything. Yet is has no  power to enforce anything, not even its own policy. Let's see how it will make the Xiongs pay the Vue the $1,200.00 that has been ordered.



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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 12:40:35 AM »
Yes, too much time has passed by with people pointing fingers that had left a body unclaimed in a morgue. :-[

I made one statement on Facebook: Zoo li lawv tsis txhawj txog nws lub cev li yom.

What were those fights for if they weren't going to help the corpse?



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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 12:43:46 AM »
Tus neeg ua zoo yeej yuav tsum tau zoo xwb.  Vim li cas, panhia, nws niam thiab txiv tsis kav ua nws lub funeral nas? Teb zaub thaum nws ua neeg nyob, nws tsis mooj nws niam thaib txiv kaws rov lus.  Tu siab ntaus, vim hais tiag, teb laus yeej hlub teb memyuaj tas sis teb yaum lawm tus siab rau nws kaw siab kaw jus.

It's not how they died, but how they lived that matters. 

The Vues' only reason for not taking over the funeral was spiritual fear: nws yog Hmoob Xyooj dab Hmoob Xyooj neeg lawm, yog Hmoob Vwj ua nws lub ntees ces Hmoob Vwj yuav puas tiam no thiab lwm tsheej tiam yau ntxiv thiab.

So I was told.



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yuknowthat

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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 11:16:32 AM »
Kuv xav mas yuav thau yog tus husband side ua dab ua qhua. Vim yog lawm dab yog lawv nyab lawm. Tsev Hmooob xeem Xyooj yuav be responsible to this, But lawv tsis ua los Tsev Xeem Vwj Ua los tsis ua cas. Yuav tsis txaus luaj twg. Tsuas tu siab tias. Yuav luag muam ib zaug mus ua poj ua sev. Yuav saib tsis tau yus ua neej ua tsa. Lam tua neeg Vov nroj ntsuab. Muaj qhov loj qhov yau los cas tsis hais rau kwv rau tij, rau neej rau tsa.

but afterall tsev xeem Xyooj thiab Vwj nos..TSIS MUAJ IB TUG KHOV KIAG! tib cov duav tuag es xwb! NOJ TAU HAIS TSIS TAU! nkim mos dhau lawm!

yog kuv no ntshe kuv yuav txaj muag ua lawv kwv lawv tij...


« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 11:18:46 AM by yuknowthat »

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yuknowthat

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Re: I'm disturbed over Panhia Vue's corpse case.
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 11:32:13 AM »
exactly......b ecause Neeg ruam tsis ntse ces zoo li no..

elders been through all this and seen this type of situation happens back in the days. They're so afraid for situation like this to happen again. Some of them setup the traditional wedding with a system of RAU NCO rau Nus Tij Nus Npaws! if something is to happen and the parents are no longer living. They are responsible to discuss with you about your hardships in marriage as parents and protect you. Because many married hmong women were kinda stupid or naive and young at the time and so is the husband. Tau tu siab ntev ces zoo hos, tau tu siab luv ces mas ncaws thiab Pots and pans flying every where everyday xwb.



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