Hmong Shamanism Should be Eliminated

[yuknowthat]

Many of you grew up experiencing Hmong shamanism~  The hmong culture revolves around shamanism; the spiritual world of our ancestors and the dead.  This religion carries a deep root that has been practices for centuries. 

But there is a problem with this religion!  Especially if you're living in America.  One major problem with Hmong shamanism is that it doesn't teach people morals.  Hmong shamanism is a form of communication with the spiritual world.  If a person doesn't believe in spirituality - Hmong religion is just one big joke!

But lets dissect the religion into 3 catagories. 

1) Does this religion engage people's morality and humanity?  No
2) Does this religion help give people enlightment and salvation?  No
3) Does this religion create fear and caution?  Yes

Why are you afraid when an elder says "your spirit has left your body."  This fear and panic creates even more stress- and could cause you to become more sick.  The "fear" tatic. 

Why doesn't Hmong Shamanism teach morality and good judgement~  If it did; the hmong culture would be very different.  Certain religion teaches "right from wrong"  but Hmong shamanism lacks those teachings.  Shamanism teaches fear and prevention.  It doesn't teach moral values that can build a person to have good judgement.

If a person lacks good judgement; there will be violence and destruction~  We see this in many Hmong families. 

Religion is suppose to build a foundation for the people/family/community.  If a religion is only used as a "fear" tactic and a tool for healing.  There is no value~ in it.  The truth; spiritual healing is does not work~ it's a form of mental healing. 

If you raise your children around Shamanism; make sure to teach them good values and behaviors.  Many hmong parents forget to teach moral values to their children~ this always leads to abuse and violence in the future.

and i think you should take this photo out.. thank you

[3 Years Time]

My seven year old can debate better...for one, he does understand the question asked...you kids need to take a chill pill.  I don't want you three lowering my intelligence to your level...

This is what happens when a religious zealot meets someone who doesn't agree with them.

[asadfg]

I understand most of you kids in here are Hmong who still practice shamanism including Reporter, a moderator in here.  I respect your practice.  However, the larger question is this:  WHERE DOES YOUR SOUL OR SPIRIT GO WHEN YOUR PHYSICAL BODY DIES?  I challenged those of you bashing our Christian faith to answer this question for me.  You can kill thousands of chickens, pigs, cows as you want.  I don't care.  What I care is for you to answer the question I proposed.  I will keep quiet and let you smart people speak.

A guy was seated next to a 10-year-old girl on an airplane.
Being bored, he turned to the girl and said, "Let's talk. I've
heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation
with your fellow passenger."

The girl, who was reading a book, closed it slowly and said
to the guy, "What would you like to talk about?"

Oh, I don't know," said the guy. "How about god and how
we can go to heaven?"

"OK," she said. "That could be an interesting topic. But let me
ask you a question first. A horse, a cow and a deer all eat the
same stuff... grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow
turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass.
Why do you suppose that is?"

The guy thought about it and said, "Hmmm, I have no idea."

To which the girl replied, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss
about god & heaven when you don't know shit?"

[candy vaj]

My seven year old can debate better...for one, he does understand the question asked...you kids need to take a chill pill.  I don't want you three lowering my intelligence to your level...

that poor thing, only seven and already brainwashed. 

[Reporter]

I understand most of you kids in here are Hmong who still practice shamanism including Reporter, a moderator in here.  I respect your practice.  However, the larger question is this:  WHERE DOES YOUR SOUL OR SPIRIT GO WHEN YOUR PHYSICAL BODY DIES?  I challenged those of you bashing our Christian faith to answer this question for me.  You can kill thousands of chickens, pigs, cows as you want.  I don't care.  What I care is for you to answer the question I proposed.  I will keep quiet and let you smart people speak.

Joot, you've been observant and, so, you are half right about me. I'm Catholic, so I've gone both ways: ancestorworshi ping/animism and Christian. I even respect the Buddhist way of praying with candles and speaking to the spirits.

I don't disrespect Christianity. The only thing I don't like about Christianity is that many of its leaders keep telling people the end of the world was coming when we all know from commonsense that it's not coming within any precise prediction. I suggest  Christians be faithful to their beliefs in God and follow the teachings of at least the 10 Commandments but be reasonable as not to make people rely on the leaders' overprediction s and tell people that Jesus is coming back or that the world is ending.

[Vandal Savage]

A BIL recently commented on my FB status stating that when a shaman ties a red string around my ankle, that he not blessing me.  The BIL insists that the red string has no spiritual significance.  I said sure, maybe to you it doesn't.  But to me, I think the cross is just two sticks glued together to resemble the lower-case "t" and it doesn't have any spiritual significance.  He didn't have a rebuttal against that one.   

[TubMTT]

Many of you grew up experiencing Hmong shamanism~  The hmong culture revolves around shamanism; the spiritual world of our ancestors and the dead.  This religion carries a deep root that has been practices for centuries. 

But there is a problem with this religion!  Especially if you're living in America.  One major problem with Hmong shamanism is that it doesn't teach people morals.  Hmong shamanism is a form of communication with the spiritual world.  If a person doesn't believe in spirituality - Hmong religion is just one big joke!

But lets dissect the religion into 3 catagories. 

1) Does this religion engage people's morality and humanity?  No
2) Does this religion help give people enlightment and salvation?  No
3) Does this religion create fear and caution?  Yes

Why are you afraid when an elder says "your spirit has left your body."  This fear and panic creates even more stress- and could cause you to become more sick.  The "fear" tatic. 

Why doesn't Hmong Shamanism teach morality and good judgement~  If it did; the hmong culture would be very different.  Certain religion teaches "right from wrong"  but Hmong shamanism lacks those teachings.  Shamanism teaches fear and prevention.  It doesn't teach moral values that can build a person to have good judgement.

If a person lacks good judgement; there will be violence and destruction~  We see this in many Hmong families. 

Religion is suppose to build a foundation for the people/family/community.  If a religion is only used as a "fear" tactic and a tool for healing.  There is no value~ in it.  The truth; spiritual healing is does not work~ it's a form of mental healing. 

If you raise your children around Shamanism; make sure to teach them good values and behaviors.  Many hmong parents forget to teach moral values to their children~ this always leads to abuse and violence in the future.

Kuv thaam kuv zaaj tuaj.  Kuv yog ib tug kws tsipaub ua neeb.  Tabsis, kuv has le kws kuv paub experience lug lawm. 

Ua Neeb mas muaj peb (3) yaam.
1. Ua Neeb Sivyig.  Yog dlaab ntxooj es mob2 es cale sawv Neeb. Ua Neeb Ntoo phua lab hab dlub. Nwg ua taug ntev le 2 teev los 3 teev.  Nyob ntawm ua neeb saib los Neeb khu lossis Neeb cheb tsev (Yaws Cua).
2. Neeb Kawm.  Yog nwg xaav ua neeb tes nwg moog cuag kws txawj neeb. Es nwg qha koj ua neeb. Feem ntau, ntoo phuam dlub. Ua Neeb dlha rooj.  Lub rooj muas es saaj.  Nwg tsuas ua tau le 30 tawm feeb xwb. Hab nwg ntofws heev.
3. Neeb Saub.  Nwg ua neeb tes Pws ib plag, lossis sawv ntsug es seev, hab tshuab paa luamyeeb lossis tshuab Qeej. Ua taag nwg maamle paiv rua koj tas yog vim lecaag.

Rawle kuv xaav mas,
Neeb SivYig yog khu ntsuj khu dluab. Nrug dlaab sibtxuas lug.
Neeb Kawm mas yog siv khawv koob lug khu mob.
Neeb Saub mas ntseeg tsitau. Kuv xaav tas yog siv tsivyim.

Nraag qaab nuav kuv yuav thaam txug kuv qhov experience kws kuv paub lug.
Thaum kuv paubtaab es xeevxwm lug ua neej. Peble puj yawm muaj peb (3) tug kwv tij.  Kuv txiv yog tug tub ntxawg.  Kuv txiv nyamphooj nyamywg, nyamdlaab nyamqhua. Tabsis, kuv txiv tsi txawj hab tsi ntse hab tsi nyam plaub ntug.

Peb puj yog ib tug kws ua Neeb Sivyig ntev, luj hab dlaav.  Kuv txiv tsev neeg mas muaj mob heev tshaaj plawg nwg ob tug tijlaug ob tsev neeg.  Peb tsev neeg, mob tug taag tes kis rua tug ntxiv. Mob nam, mobtxiv, mob tub, mob ntxhais. Yog peb tsi mob tes peb puj mob lossis yawm mob.

Thaum kuv luj lawm, kuv nam txug twg, kuv nam coj kuv ua nam luag moog txug ntawd.  Kuv nam ib pheej coj xyaab moog saib Yaig rua ntau tug nam/txiv Neeb.  Mas tug nam/txiv Neeb ntawm kuj has rua ib tas, "yog yug le dlaab tum yug xwb".  Tes kuv nam pheej nug ntxiv.  Nwg kuj has ntxiv tas, " Txhua txhua tug Txiv Neeb NamNeeb coj ib paab dlaabneeb.  Peb le, peb cais cov dlaab qus tawm es tseg cov dlaab nyeg xwb.  Mej tug mas nwg tsi cais.  Nwg muaj dlaab qus hab dlaab nyeg tuabsis.  Mas, cov dlaab ntawm yuav noj hab yuavhaus tuab yaam le yug.  Nwg tso nwg cov dlaab neeb moog nrhav noj.  Yog mej mob tes yog cov dlaab neeb tuaj nrhav noj ntawm mej. Yog nwg tuaj khu mej, nwg tuaj thim nwg cov dlaab rov qaab tes mej zoo.  Kuv xaav mas tejzag muaj tseeb.

Tomqaab kws puj tuag taag lawm, peb tsev neeg kuj tsimuaj mob hlo le lawm. 

Thaam mibntsiv txug kev ua Neeb.
Thaum puab muab tug qab lug tuag khu, tua tug Npua lug khu.  Lossis, txav Majzeeg.  Yog muab tug Npua moog theej txhoj, hloov yug tug Ntsuj Dluab ib ntus (temperary) ibxyoos 12 lub hlis. Es tso yug tug ntsuj rov lug kaav yug lub cev.  Ib xyoos txwm nkau, 12 lub hlis, NamNeeb muab lub pobtsaig npua hlawv tes tug Npua taukev moog thawj thab.

Tug Mojzeeg tes yog moog theej txhoj.  Muab tug Mojzeeg moog hloov yug tug Ntsuj tom qhov ntxaa. Yog dlaag dlaab. 

Ua Neeb mas zoole koj moog nplog teb es koj pib dlaav hlau taag es koj them nyaj ntxiv es tuaj pib dlaav hlau ntxiv kuam tau nyob ob peb hlis ntxiv xwb.

Ua Neeb mas tsiyog kev qhuab ntuag kuam tuabneeg tsim txaj lossis ua neeg zoo. 

Kuv kuj paub tsitseeb tas sis kuv xaav mas yog le ntawm.

TubMTT

[Wi_sweetguy]

What is wrong with being a SHAMAN.  I am a Proud Hmong American Shaman.  If anyone is biased or thinks differently haven't been outside of the small bubble they are enclosed in.  Most people who are hateful, just don't understand the meaning of culture and diversity. Whites used blacks as slaves and preachers preacher wrongly to brainwashed the whites into believing in lies.  They are still doing it today. Religion is also a culture and diverse thing.  When they tied white strings on your hand, people bless you with words of fortune and to cleanse the evilness.  Anyone afraid of being close to a shaman must have not met other cultures.  It's 2013, I am sure we all know there is a holy war going on and I will tell you I will not be joining the holy war.  I have to pleasure some of my PB women in here.  Afterlife and Hmong-everything, you're welcome to go.   

You guys are still young probably around 14 or 15 because you don't seen to understand what a real church goer is.  My church friends don't act like you two.  Which church do you go to again?

[sweetvoice]

If you raise your children around Shamanism; make sure to teach them good values and behaviors.  Many hmong parents forget to teach moral values to their children~ this always leads to abuse and violence in the future.

Hmong-Everything,

I know two people who are very close to me and one person practices shamanism while the other one decided to convert into the christian religion to hopefully teach moral values to family and child. These people both have one adult teenager who suffers from mental illness for over ten years. Anyway, the shamanism believer person will try anything to find a cure or help the child besides the shamanism practice for this person truly loves the child and never gave up hope. This person doesn't speak or write English, has no schooling back ground , doesn't have a spouse for support , and doesn't hold a job. However, because this person was bright and open-minded to other's religion or views, understanding of others, loving, and was patience the child got the help through the mental health specialists. This person fought with the count system for years in putting the child on medication and getting programs to teach the child about mental illness. At the end, the child loved this person more and they have a healthy relationship and understand each other better. The child has gotten a job and is planning on getting married.

Anyway, the other person who converted into christian doesn't attend church and the child is not even getting better. This person relies on the church people to eventually help with the mental illness but it isn't working because the child's illness has gotten worse at home.  The child doesn't even realize that he is attacking and causing pain to the family and the church people doesn't even know much about his illness . The child of this case now is so into the christian that this child refuse to get a check up through doctors and deny having any illness and says god will help. This person and the family will not get any medical help or do anything and relies on christian to help the child for now only.

[saki saki]

Many of you grew up experiencing Hmong shamanism~  The hmong culture revolves around shamanism; the spiritual world of our ancestors and the dead.  This religion carries a deep root that has been practices for centuries. 

But there is a problem with this religion!  Especially if you're living in America.  One major problem with Hmong shamanism is that it doesn't teach people morals.  Hmong shamanism is a form of communication with the spiritual world.  If a person doesn't believe in spirituality - Hmong religion is just one big joke!

But lets dissect the religion into 3 catagories. 

1) Does this religion engage people's morality and humanity?  No
2) Does this religion help give people enlightment and salvation?  No
3) Does this religion create fear and caution?  Yes

Why are you afraid when an elder says "your spirit has left your body."  This fear and panic creates even more stress- and could cause you to become more sick.  The "fear" tatic. 

Why doesn't Hmong Shamanism teach morality and good judgement~  If it did; the hmong culture would be very different.  Certain religion teaches "right from wrong"  but Hmong shamanism lacks those teachings.  Shamanism teaches fear and prevention.  It doesn't teach moral values that can build a person to have good judgement.

If a person lacks good judgement; there will be violence and destruction~  We see this in many Hmong families. 

Religion is suppose to build a foundation for the people/family/community.  If a religion is only used as a "fear" tactic and a tool for healing.  There is no value~ in it.  The truth; spiritual healing is does not work~ it's a form of mental healing. 

If you raise your children around Shamanism; make sure to teach them good values and behaviors.  Many hmong parents forget to teach moral values to their children~ this always leads to abuse and violence in the future.

OMG... another white wash person. biatch'n about her hmong heritage. Either that this person goes to church and is try'n to preach how awesome church people are?
I don't wanna be hate'n you but tis is the reason why we hmong people sucks in general.
So let me ask you a question? who came first.... the chicken or the egg?   

[saki saki]

Sorry but I couldn't even finish ur preach'n about shamans. You started this thread only to be lecture by your own hmong community.  It's alrite that you hate ur hmong shaman people, but be ware of what you say. Spirits are all around you. And when you need or seek out shamans to help you. they will not know what to do for you. 

[Gracified23]

Just curious, suppose that Shamanism is all good and real, so then why does the dead need food in the afterlife? So they need to pitch off from the living or else they will come to kill you? ROFL ok...

But really...if Shamanism is as good as it claims, why does the dead need anything at all? 

The suppose ancestors in the afterlife are to guide you and to protect you, yet they can't do that for themselves? That's completely crap don't ya think?

[saki saki]

^^^ You are half correct, wen you are dead. you have nothing... However the dead still needs food and money... just like the living. I guess younglings like you wouldn't know of wat I speak of.

[3 Years Time]

Just curious, suppose that Shamanism is all good and real, so then why does the dead need food in the afterlife? So they need to pitch off from the living or else they will come to kill you? ROFL ok...

But really...if Shamanism is as good as it claims, why does the dead need anything at all? 

The suppose ancestors in the afterlife are to guide you and to protect you, yet they can't do that for themselves? That's completely crap don't ya think?

The food is to honor them, as if they were here in spirit when we share meals. It is not to literally feed them. They do not remain in the spirit world for an eternity, they live there for only a lifetime. After their lifetime in the spirit world they return to the creator. The creator will go over their lifetimes (earth/spirit world) and then from there, the soul will see what lessons it has learned and what lessons it will learn next. And onto the next lifetime, reincarnate on earth, and the process repeats itself. Some souls learn quicker than others, which is why we see some mature teens and then immature adults.

[Gracified23]

^^^ You are half correct, wen you are dead. you have nothing... However the dead still needs food and money... just like the living. I guess younglings like you wouldn't know of wat I speak of.

If that were true, then there would be tons of freeloader ancestors who won't have food, cuz they ain't getting it from the mass population of the world.

Suppose what you said was real couldn't they just plant their own agriculture in the after life?