Does Hmong Shamanism have any foundation of itself?

[Reporter]

Let me make it simple:  Religion is a belief system.  Shamanism is a practice like you said, BUT it is a practice also with a belief system.  Does it not?  Religion does not necessarily have to have God in it.  All forms of shamanism share some basic beliefs.  We are not debating the definition of shamanism.  We are debating whether shamanism also incorporates a belief system in its practice and it does...   

Take away the belief system from shamanism and what we have is just some dude performing a circus act...

Good to see your definition and explanation of it. Thanks.

[Believe_N_Me]

Let me make it simple:  Religion is a belief system.  Shamanism is a practice like you said, BUT it is a practice also with a belief system.  Does it not?  Religion does not necessarily have to have God in it.  All forms of shamanism share some basic beliefs.  We are not debating the definition of shamanism.  We are debating whether shamanism also incorporates a belief system in its practice and it does...   

Take away the belief system from shamanism and what we have is just some dude performing a circus act...

Exactly! If there wasn't a belief system accompanying Shamanism then the Hmong would not follow it so devoutly. It would be reduced to a man performing a circus act.

Some of these people are trying to apply the western definition of religion to Shamanism so they don't think it is one. However, the Hmong people have always classified Shamanism as their religion.

[dlabtsi_os]

Let me make it simple:  Religion is a belief system.  Shamanism is a practice like you said, BUT it is a practice also with a belief system.  Does it not?  Religion does not necessarily have to have God in it.  All forms of shamanism share some basic beliefs.  We are not debating the definition of shamanism.  We are debating whether shamanism also incorporates a belief system in its practice and it does...   

Take away the belief system from shamanism and what we have is just some dude performing a circus act...

And that is where both problem and solution arise. Taking away the system and people are baffle. Giving in the system you have a power struggle.

All it comes down to it. Nobody wants to practice something they don't believe in, unless it worked by mysticism or coincidence.

[Reporter]

Exactly! If there wasn't a belief system accompanying Shamanism then the Hmong would not follow it so devoutly. It would be reduced to a man performing a circus act.

Some of these people are trying to apply the western definition of religion to Shamanism so they don't think it is one. However, the Hmong people have always classified Shamanism as their religion.

I understand that misunderstandi ng can happen.


The $600.00 bride price misunderstandi ng has been spreading around the world now.

[hnubqub]

joot,

They don't hold the same standards because they don't know shiit about Shamanism to really know what it's all about. If they actually educated themselves and understood that it's more than just "healing", they would be so against it. They wonder why their parents' generation thinks so differently than from them? Duh, it's because their parents' generation are fully Shamanistic. There are values and teachings with the territory as well, maybe not taught in a church like Christianity but trust me, there are.

there lies the question and the problem doesn't it? 

[hnubqub]

the hmong youth can tell you a hundred stories from western society.  ask them how many hmong stories they know?  i'd be amazed if they can count the number on more than one hand.  hmong heroes?  even less.  it's not that we don't have any. 

[Wi_sweetguy]

Growing up, I've heard of hmong stories and heroes such as Vang Yim Leeg, Vang Hmong, Nug Toog, Nug Shee Long, Shee Yee and others, but the ones I truly admired after learning about them are Pa Chia Vue, Yang Toua, Cha ChiMeng, Zoog Zua, VP, Toubee lyfound, shong lue and many other great people who have contributed to helping the Hmongs. 

[night912]

If people decides to live without God, I don't care.

And this is why you failed as a Christian. You never cared whether or not other people "had, are or will" live with God. You had a conflict within yourself and were just trying to convinced yourself that you "had, are, or will be living with God. You were explaining about God to others on the outside to convinced your inner self, not caring whether they will learn something about God or not.

 At least it's a start. You have finally confessed and starting to move away from the shadow, leaving the stage of denial. The next step will be for you to keep following the light and walk farther away from the shadow. Hopefully you will not turn back towards the shadow back into denial. The shadow will at times try to pull you back to the easy path leading you back to the shadow. The path in front of you will be a difficult road to walk on, and at times you will feel the urge to return to the easy path back to the shadow. But there is no worries, you are not alone. There are people with you along the path. Some may be behind you, besides you or ahead of you. You must learn to accept their help on your journey towards the light. Also learned to help the people around you as you can. If you see a person by you starting to head back to the shadow, you should try to help that person turn back around. It will be easy to let that person walk back or push them back to the shadow, and by doing so, you are also moving with that person  back to the shadow. Remember, most of the time you won't realize that you are doing the pushing. The person  being pushed will move faster back to the shadow, but the pusher will always slowly be moving behind them, making it hard to realize that both of you are heading back in the wrong direction.



All being said, don't be tempted to turn back to the shadow and denial. For example, saying, "....I meant this instead of that...." or if you believe that you should take a step forward with your left foot first, while the person next to you believes you should take a step with your right foot first. One must not deny that both of you are heading towards the light, the means of getting there is just different, but at the end,both of you are aiming for the same goal, reaching the light. At the end, it doesn't matter what belief system someone believes in. But for someone who believes and have reached a close understanding of God, knows that whether somebody is a Christian, Shaman, Jew, Muslim, or anything else, if they are heading towards the light then they are living God's will. And they should care enough for those who have lost their way from the light and help them by leading them back towards the light the way they believe in. EX: an atheist is living God's will by staying on the light path through his belief, science. Everyone lives with Godthrough their individual belief as long as there i. no denial in there inner self.

[Reporter]

Thank you. At least someone appreciates what the heck is going on here about the Asians nowadays. I rather be a good man with a good reasons why I am a Christian because I choose to follow the light. Have anybody seen the Croods? If you guys have, please, you can see that in every people that will end up like North Korea. The world is not about me today because of the fear of death or dying. The world is about shooting for something impossible to make a dream come true. If people decides to live without God, I don't care. But what I see in people is not trying for something impossible. I know it is risky, but it is worth trying.

 

[VillainousHero]

A prophet/messiah does not choose to do god's work...God's works chooses that person.

A shaman does not choose to do shamanism...Sh amanism chooses that person.

That is the foundation of it...

[VillainousHero]

I just lay the foundation for you.  If you don't get just say you don't get it.   Don't need to say anymore than that.

[Wi_sweetguy]

I just lay the foundation for you.  If you don't get just say you don't get it.   Don't need to say anymore than that.

Tus phooj ywb VHero, ib txiag tij neeg yim tsis kha siab li.  Lawm lus qho muag blind lawm. hais npau li cas los qhia lus xwb. 

[VillainousHero]

That's not a foundation. Where's your proof? If you say, "Oh, I got it from a shaman person or that person," then it is irrelevant.

God told me so.

[night912]

You must learn to accept their help on your journey towards the light.

On the bold, not all wants to be in the light. Therefore, they want to be the Scum of Creation, let them be.

You said you don't want to be in the light and want to be the Scum of Creation. I'm not like you. Just because someone is lost in the shadows doesn't mean I am going to just leave them without even trying to help. I'll will still try to bring you to the light

On the bold, not all wants to be in the light. Therefore, they want to be the Scum of Creation, let them be. It is NOT your problem. What you should worrying right now is yourself and other people who you care about.

Note the bold. In response to that, I'll give you a quote that someone wrote in another thread. Since I'm trying to help you but you're not accepting it, I'm using these quotes below. Maybe you might listen to the words.

That's favoritism and it is ILLEGAL!

It's either your FULL 100% all loving person, or a half-A-S-S lover who favors people in his/her desires.

Therefore, for someone who doesn't, I might as well don't even care about that person who doesn't forgive me. If that person wants to be the Scum of Creation, let him/her be. You can't stopped them; only them can stop themselves; therefore, why bother someone who's stone hearted as pharaoh?

So why did Moses bother pharaoh?

[night912]

Does God care if someone doesn't care about Him? That's my point. If someone doesn't give a damn about God, I wouldn't because he shows no respect to himself. Therefore, why honor that man when you could honor who is WILLINGLY to worship God. I mean, you taught this naughty boy that this boy doesn't care about your words. You might as well give him what he really wants until it turns into a curse. Why do you think God gives the pursuit of happiness to someone who OUGHTS to know that this option was wrong?

Note what's in bold. He is still just a boy and still has a lot to learn and grow. That's why I'm still patient with you by still teaching and letting you learn and grow.