Bible Study - Class meets on Thursday from 12:00 PM to 1:00 PM CST.

[BoyRescue]

BoyRescue,

I really like this.  I was confused about this too because I have seen some well-to-do Hmong people who don't seem to abuse it or hoard it.  And then I think about Solomon and David... and Job .... and Abraham... they were rich too. 

I have heard many people preaching and saying that in order to be Christlike, we ought to live poorly.  A few years back, I was praying and was reminded by God that he does bestow richness on people so we need to ask him. 

Yes, I've definitely heard that to be poor is to be Christlike and it's not true.

As I am re-reading James Chapter 5 to see if there's anything that I wanted to add or discuss in greater details and I gained a new insight.

Combining what BoyRescue wrote about being rich and James telling us to be patient and wait for the fruits... and tying it back to a few chapters back about how we don't have because we don't ask or we ask for the wrong reasons.  The insight I gained is that we are not to be jealous and compete with the people of the world, but we are to ask God and while we are waiting patiently for him to produce fruits, we are to tend to the garden faithfully and lovingly. 

If we ask and God give it to us right away, then we don't learn the value of working hard and earning our reward as God has been trying to teach us.  David was not a spoiled little boy being waited on hand and foot because his older brother was a general...he was working hard as a shepard boy.  And we are to do the same.  While we are waiting upon God, and trusting in him with an unwavering faith... we are to tend our sheep (congregation, our work, projects, accounts, clients, or even just our products we are producing in the assembly) faithfully and diligently.

Great insight!  I didn't notice that connection.  But your definitely right when you say with the right intent and motive God can bless us with prosperity when we ask Him.  Be diligent and God is faithful to reward us.

[LadyLionness]

Anything else from James we want to touch on?

[LadyLionness]

Survey: (I will need everyone to chime in.)


Which way do you guys prefer? 

1.  Reading one chapter per week with indepth discussions like James Chapter 4 and 5.
 
or

2.  Reading 4 chapters per week with discussions on what stands out to us. 

[BoyRescue]

Survey: (I will need everyone to chime in.)


Which way do you guys prefer? 

1.  Reading one chapter per week with indepth discussions like James Chapter 4 and 5.
 
or

2.  Reading 4 chapters per week with discussions on what stands out to us. 

[LadyLionness]

stolen from facebook...

There was a time that I doubted my salvation as well. It is a given that the world will always be there and we live in a cesspool of sin..that means we will get dirty. However as a follower of christ we do not jump head first and wallow in it..or do backstrokes in the cesspool of sin. We go back to Christ and ask him to wash of the splashes of the sin waves that splash on us when we get to near the shores of that cesspool. I hope that analogy helps with you understand sanctification . I believe we will be beautified when Christ says well done my child..until that day we will keep going back to Christ to wash and change our white shirts. The only respite and vacation from the world of sin is my devotions in the word, fellowship with believers, time with my family, quiet times with my wife, my studies in the Word and prayer time. I hate my sins but I accept my weakness not my fakeness. Two is different. Fake is lying purposely for selfish reasons but weakness is trying but failing and trying again and again...but continuously seeking Christ.

[BoyRescue]

Anything else from James we want to touch on?

Yes!

James 5:13-18 - "13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit."

Does your church [pastors and elders] practice this:  anoint the sick with oil in the name of the Lord?

[LadyLionness]

Yes!

James 5:13-18 - "13 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit."

Does your church [pastors and elders] practice this:  anoint the sick with oil in the name of the Lord?

No, I have not seen any Hmong pastor do that... anoint the sick with oil in the name of the Lord.  I haven't seen any meka church do that in a long long time too...

I do sometimes...

[BoyRescue]

James 5:19,20 - "19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

This is saying that if a believer wanders from the truth and someone turns him; the sinner, from the error of his way will save his soul from death.  Self explanatory.  Now, if a believer does not turn away from sin then his soul will not be saved from death, correct? 

Does this mean "once saved always saved" is true? 

[BoyRescue]

No, I have not seen any Hmong pastor do that... anoint the sick with oil in the name of the Lord.  I haven't seen any meka church do that in a long long time too...

I do sometimes...

This is one of the reasons why there's still people in the church that's suffering from sickness.  No anointing oil for the sick.  I believe this contributes to why people don't believe in healing anymore...no obedience to the word of God.

I'm curious how do you anoint the sick people?  Pour a bottle of oil? A drip of oil?  Olive oil or vegetable oil?

[LadyLionness]

This is one of the reasons why there's still people in the church that's suffering from sickness.  No anointing oil for the sick.  I believe this contributes to why people don't believe in healing anymore...no obedience to the word of God.

I'm curious how do you anoint the sick people?  Pour a bottle of oil? A drip of oil?  Olive oil or vegetable oil?

I have not really looked into that, but I have been exposed to ointing with oil... so I usually just use what I have at hand and I only do it in really dire circumstances.

[LadyLionness]

I'm curious how do you anoint the sick people?  Pour a bottle of oil? A drip of oil?  Olive oil or vegetable oil?

Here is what I found on the subject.  My understanding is that any oil will do, but it would require the elders of the church and it would be in dire consequences when everything else have failed. 

This passage provides the clearest scriptural support for the practice of anointing the sick with oil. I firmly believe in the importance of this practicel. However, this verse is open to multiple interpretation s. The three most common interpretation s are as follows:

Roman Catholic View: RC interpreters find here the legitimacy for ‘extreme unction’, a practice whereby a priest administers sacred oil (after a complicated ceremony to actually make the oil “holy”) in a rite to a sick or dying person.

Medicinal View: Many Protestants view the oil as the medicine of the New Testament day. They would see this as the first-century equivalent of going to a doctor.

Symbolic View: This view understands the oil to be symbolic. Combined with prayer and in the name of the Lord, the oil serves as a physical symbol that the sick individual is being set apart unto the Lord.

To decide among these options, we first need a better understanding of the Biblical practice of anointing. To ‘anoint’ literally means to pour or rub oil on a person or thing. In the Old Testament, the practice of anointing could be used in secular situations (such as finalizing a legal contract, or preparing a shield for battle) or for religious purposes. Regarding the latter category, objects were anointed, such as the temple and its furnishings (Ex 40:9-10), garments (Lev 8:30), and sacred vessels (Ex 30:26). Religious anointing was also used for certain types of people, such as kings (I Kings 1:39; 2 Kings 9:6), priests (Ex 29:29; Lev 4:3), and prophets (I Kings 19:16; 1 Chr 16:22; Ps 105:15). The person anointed was symbolically set apart as holy and consecrated to the Lord. In other words, they were his and to be used according to his purposes. In the New Testament anointing the sick is connected with the preaching of repentance. Mark 6:12-14 states that “they went out and preached that people should repent. They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them….” The James passage cited above is in the same vein as the Mark passage.

The Roman Catholic view cannot be accepted for the simple reason that it is a clear elaboration of the passage. James 5:14 contains no hint of priestly oversight (“the elders”) nor is the oil considered sacred. The focus of the passage (and its surrounding verses) is on personal repentance, faith, and submission to God—not some religious rite. The Medicinal view has some advantages but ultimately fails. Certainly Olive oil, according to Old Testament and Jewish understanding, was prized for its nurturing of human well-being and for its healing properties. But the passage specifically says the elders should anoint with oil. If the issue were simply the application of medicine why involve the church elders? Certainly family members or a local physician would be better choices. If health care were in view, the contemporary application would be to bring the church leaders with you to your next doctor’s appointment!

The best understanding of this passage is that the anointing of oil upon a sick individual is a symbolic declaration that this person has been set apart to God. Medicine has failed. Human ability has failed. The leaders of the church gather together, and in the name of the Lord, symbolically pronounce their submission to and faith in the almighty God. Such an anointing in not a guarantee of healing; rather, it is a declaration of faith. If the person recovers, God is glorified because He was the agent of healing. If the person does not recover, God is glorified because the person was set apart for Him as His special treasure.

In the end, anointing with oil is never simply about healing the sick. It is chiefly about God getting the glory for being God

[BoyRescue]

I have not really looked into that, but I have been exposed to ointing with oil... so I usually just use what I have at hand and I only do it in really dire circumstances.

Okay awesome!  I was just curious and wasn't trying to be religious or anything.  Just curious about what you use that's all.  

[LadyLionness]

Okay awesome!  I was just curious and wasn't trying to be religious or anything.  Just curious about what you use that's all. 

Well, you got me worried b/c I am thinking that maybe it needed to be "Holy Oil."  But apparently, the Bible did not say that... it just say oil...

[BoyRescue]

Well, you got me worried b/c I am thinking that maybe it needed to be "Holy Oil."  But apparently, the Bible did not say that... it just say oil...

 

I do think any type of oil would work, but in the OT there was a specific type of anointing oil that was to be used.

[LadyLionness]

I do think any type of oil would work, but in the OT there was a specific type of anointing oil that was to be used.

Hmm... if you could post up that verse whenever you find it, I would be interested in seeing it.