PebHmong Discussion Forum
General Category => Hmong Culture & History => Topic started by: TheAfterLife on April 11, 2013, 12:04:49 AM
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Yes because we are being dominated by a higher culture that convince others about their way of lifestyle. Even the Americans are killing our culture because of education. That's killing our culture and many of the Hmong people are leaving that culture. I'd say in the next 10-20 generation, Hmong culture is dead. I could be wrong if it is shorter.
Remember folks, there are 4 types of war in this world:
1. Economy war (China vs. America)
2. Culture war
3. Science war (USA beats Russia through their space tech. during Kennedy's time)
4. Domination/Conquer/Brute Force war (Rhetorical! This can be found in WWII)
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Yes because we are being dominated by a higher culture that convince others about their way of lifestyle. Even the Americans are killing our culture because of education. That's killing our culture and many of the Hmong people are leaving that culture. I'd say in the next 10-20 generation, Hmong culture is dead. I could be wrong if it is shorter.
Remember folks, there are 4 types of war in this world:
1. Economy war (China vs. America)
2. Culture war
3. Science war (USA beats Russia through their space tech. during Kennedy's time)
4. Domination/Conquer/Brute Force war (Rhetorical! This can be found in WWII)
Many of the Hmong that live here are also "Americans" so not sure how that apply but yes, I have seen and continue to see certain aspects of the Hmong culture dying like certain aspects of other cultures dying. The wind of change affects every culture. I don't think the Hmong culture will totally died in the next "10-20 generations" though as there are many good aspects in our culture.
Here's a non-U.S. example of a host culture having to do some changing and adapting to help create better harmony for all:
The Dying German Culture: Germans Learn Turkish Language To Integrate Better With Its Immigrants
Sound Familiar America? U.S. citizens apparently have no problem seeing, reading and hearing the Spanish language everywhere across the country plastered into its amnesic consciousness by its democratic government
For years, the focus of the integration debate in Germany has been on the assimilation of the Turkish migrant population into German society. But now some Germans are beginning to consider it their responsibility to integrate with their Turkish neighbors — and are going to language schools to learn Turkish.
http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=103321 (http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=103321)
Will some racist Germorons accuse those Germans of being 'Turkish-washed' for doing the right thing? Sure, even though that's not what they are doing but rather, ride the wind of change to help create better harmony for all the people that reside in Germany.
It's not just Germany, pretty much every developed democratic country that has a melting pot make up have gone through some changes to become more tolerant of the different groups within their society. As a result, certain aspects of each group's culture diminish along the way.
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Is Hmong culture dying?
No.... Hmong culture isn't "dying" just adapting. Hmong is among the oldest living cultures and have survived by adapting to its surrounding, while keeping its identity intact. According to Chinese historians, Hmong have been around since 2000 B.C. (1). It's debatable whether Hmong truly had a country at one time, but the FACT is that the Hmong have persevered through thousands of years of adaptation. Therefore, the Americanizatio n of Hmong isn't anything new. It's just another chapter in Hmong history.
It's a false assumption to believe that living in America somehow eliminates one's cultural identity. Case in point: There have been Spanish-speaking, Chinese, Italian, German, Russian, Jewish, etc... type communities in America for ages. In fact, America is moving towards a multicultural future. By 2050, whites will be the minorities (2). This further validates that Hmong-American communities will continue to thrive; just as other ethnic communities will.
Being an American today is MUCH MORE different than it was decades ago. The true concept of America's "melting pot" was NOT a diverse, multicultural society, but the assimilation of ALL ethnic cultures into the majority Anglo-based ethnicity that defined America's identity (3). However, this idea didn't go as planned. Instead, the present-day American is a person who embraces his own ethnic identity, while believing in the concept of America. As such, there is no such thing as a "generic" American who acts and behaves accordingly.
Finally, I also believe that while Hmong have moved away from some of its customs, there will be a revival in the future. The thing is that as children of strict Hmong codes of conduct, we are enjoying this new cultural liberty. But at some point down the road, we will begin to appreciate our original roots and what they are meant to teach. Americanism is new and exciting, but when it becomes a commodity, our people will beginning searching for their uniqueness again. This is true of all ethnicities in America.
Sources:
1. http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Hmong-Americans.html (http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Hmong-Americans.html)
2. http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/12/us-usa-population-immigration-idUSN1110177520080212 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/12/us-usa-population-immigration-idUSN1110177520080212)
3. http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0601/article_483.shtml (http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0601/article_483.shtml)
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how do you define an end to a culture?
prolly when that culture/practice is no longer acknowledged. in a way.... we are no longer true traditional hmong... we are westernized hmong.
so many phers already claiming they will not practice brideprice. so many phers cohabiting. such are behaviors that are not culturally hmong.
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Most Hmong kids born here in the US don't even know how to speak Hmong anymore....eno ugh said...
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Most Hmong kids born here in the US don't even know how to speak Hmong anymore....eno ugh said...
That's language, not culture.
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Culture is not static as people make it out to be. When someone judges another person based on their cultural merits - how Hmong is he or she - it's just an elitist commentary.
It's so arbitrary and subjective. You say we American born Hmong are not Hmong enough? Well every single Hmong in Laos, Thailand, Vietnam and Burma are not as Hmong as our brethren that permanently reside in southern China. Let's not stop there. These Hmong in southern China are garbage Hmong compared to our ancestors 1,000 years ago.
You know, the American Revolutionary War was partly fueled by shit attitudes like this.
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IMHO from the outside looking in I would say that it's evolving..... and to be honest, some of that stuff can die right along with the OG's
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As long as you get hmong neegrows running around and say that they are proud "ha hmong" then the culture will still flourish...
There are some things that the next generation of hmongs will lose out. One of them is some old traditional stuff and some home remedies and what not. Like funeral stuff or wedding stuff. What happen when all the OG dies off and it is time for you to step up to do a funeral or a wedding?
Oh right, take it to the club and we will drink one for them..
or something like that. ;D
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If it is adapting, then the culture is dying because we lose the natural taste of it. The TRUE culture without other foreign inspiration, we will lose its natural taste. If you look at North Korea, they are trying to go back to where IT'S the emperor and HIS rules to apply almost anything. Ideas are running out and people do this sometimes in the political ground. Anyway, if the Hmong culture adapts, then it is dying like how the French are being influence by Italy, spain, England, and Germany since their natural dialect is dying.
If you really think this is true, then the hmong culture died a long time ago. This means even before the time in Laos.
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It's already "dead" as far as the US-Mung-Me-Cows are concerned - ;D ... ::) ... :idiot2:
For the rest of us, Hmong that is, it is very much alive and evolving to a good or great exent - not exactly or precisely what is/has been practiced say 10-20 years ago, in SE Asia specifically. And even in SE Asia, presently, there are a lot of evolution/changes going on too.
Basically that is the norm with many cultures being Westernized or influenced here. Hmong culture has evolved for the most part. And in most cases, it only hold on to the very must core fundamentals/elements or what is practicle and possible. That said, a lot of the elders have complained that is has evolved for the worst - :o
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If it is adapting, then the culture is dying because we lose the natural taste of it. The TRUE culture without other foreign inspiration, we will lose its natural taste. If you look at North Korea, they are trying to go back to where IT'S the emperor and HIS rules to apply almost anything. Ideas are running out and people do this sometimes in the political ground. Anyway, if the Hmong culture adapts, then it is dying like how the French are being influence by Italy, spain, England, and Germany since their natural dialect is dying.
Here’s the problem: how do you know what the TRUE culture of any ethnicity is?
All ethnicities have been influenced by other cultures. If you knew something of Hmong, you would know that our ancestors were influenced by the Chinese, Laos and Thai. This is proven by the words and customs we share with them.
Amen. It's the influence of a higher culture. If you play the game of Civilization Revolution by Sid Meyers, you will know how to influence a nation to join you like how America is doing right now. They dominated Hawaii with influence. Sucks huh?
I used to play this game all the time. Unfortunately, it’s just a game. In the real world, not all cultures are wiped out when a new culture takes over. Consider that Alexander the Great conquered the known world during his time. The same with Genghis Khan. Yet, the cultures they conquered still remain. This refutes your theory.
Actually, the FACT of America refutes your theory as well. There are literally hundreds of sub-cultures that exist within America’s culture. They are not part of a homogeneous culture. America is comprised of many ethnic cultures within a larger culture.
But let’s talk about our people: the Hmong. As far as we are certain, Hmong have always lived under another country’s rule. Hmong have always integrated aspects of the larger culture, while maintaining its identity. Such is the fate of us. But we will survive again. America is just another stepping stone.
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so many phers already claiming they will not practice brideprice. so many phers cohabiting. such are behaviors that are not culturally hmong.
No worries AOZ... Hmong culture has survived thousands of years of change. For every Hmong person who abandons our culture, there are hundreds more who maintain it. And even the ones that claim not to care, still go to Hmong places like this forum. They still eat rice, associate with Hmong people and join in the things they speak out against. Maybe they do so out of curiosity, who knows? But Hmong will always be around in some shape or form.
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No worries AOZ... Hmong culture has survived thousands of years of change. For every Hmong person who abandons our culture, there are hundreds more who maintain it. And even the ones that claim not to care, still go to Hmong places like this forum. They still eat rice, associate with Hmong people and join in the things they speak out against. Maybe they do so out of curiosity, who knows? But Hmong will always be around in some shape or form.
the true culture to any ethnicity is without major influence from another [dominating foreign culture]. i would define our true hmong culture being... dating to before our people got involved with the CIA. so when i say true hmong culture... i am referencing practices during that time.
indeed... the sight of young healthy hmong men playing qeej at the new years gives hope to our hmong people that our hmong men will continue to pass on our hmong culture. O0
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It's lost and we have lost on the cultural war since the Hmong minds are HIGHLY backward. I agree what the French people say to us because WE ARE BACKWARD!
If you say so. Although I agree that some aspects of our culture could be "lost" due to adaptation over the years, and some Hmong are still "BACKWARD", I don't think all is lost. I noticed more and more Hmong are moving forward because I see and hear fewer and fewer bride-napping, polygamy, man treating woman like dirt because he bought her, bride head price, kids marrying kids, married men having the power to date other women, and adults marrying kids cases thanks to adaptation. Sometimes, change is good and needed to create better harmony for all as well as reduce the BACKWARD mentality that some can't seem to shake off but I can see the good aspects continuing to be around for a long time to come. Adaptation/change/modification applies to pretty much every culture. Sometimes it is necessary to change in order to move forward.
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This story is on the front page of the current issue of "Hmong Today".
http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/news/2013/04/02/next-wave-hmong-shamans-sandyci-mouas-story (http://"http://www.tcdailyplanet.net/news/2013/04/02/next-wave-hmong-shamans-sandyci-mouas-story")
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What Sandy and Koua said about "change" and "evolve" is right on the money. Since they are both young and born in the States, I can also see that they will be "judge" by others especially Sandy. My aunt was one of the few women Shamans in Laos and Thailand, and she really had to prove her worth. From what I remembered, she is just as good as the men based on what she received in return from the people she provided Shamanism service to.
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And look who's dominating us? We were the FIRST settlers that has made farming technology, which has spread during the time of Chi-You. Hmong people can brag about this since we WERE the only ones who has the powerful economy back then because of farming technology; however, we fell apart because of traitors. But my point is, the culture is dead and lost FOREVER since most of the stuff that we did were destroyed by the Chinese. So how accurate is our culture? It's lost. The reason why I say, "TRUE CULTURE," what I meant was the time of Chi-You. It's lost and we have lost on the cultural war since the Hmong minds are HIGHLY backward. I agree what the French people say to us because WE ARE BACKWARD!
Your logic makes no sense. In your first post, you said Hmong culture is dying due to the dominant culture of the US. Now, you're saying Hmong culture was destroyed long ago by China? So what's your point? Is it dying or is it dead already? Make up your mind.
I think you fail to grasp what everyone is saying: culture is constantly changing. What you perceive as TRUE Hmong culture 10 years ago, was probably not considered true Hmong culture 100 years ago. Furthermore, the fact that Western ideas are spreading doesn't negate Hmong culture; it only changes aspects of it. If we speak strictly of cultures, there is something to be gained from each.
Like I said, history doesn't lie. The Hmong have been around since the beginning of civilization and we will be around in some way, shape or form.
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Is Hmong culture dying?
No.... Hmong culture isn't "dying" just adapting. Hmong is among the oldest living cultures and have survived by adapting to its surrounding, while keeping its identity intact. According to Chinese historians, Hmong have been around since 2000 B.C. (1). It's debatable whether Hmong truly had a country at one time, but the FACT is that the Hmong have persevered through thousands of years of adaptation. Therefore, the Americanizatio n of Hmong isn't anything new. It's just another chapter in Hmong history.
It's a false assumption to believe that living in America somehow eliminates one's cultural identity. Case in point: There have been Spanish-speaking, Chinese, Italian, German, Russian, Jewish, etc... type communities in America for ages. In fact, America is moving towards a multicultural future. By 2050, whites will be the minorities (2). This further validates that Hmong-American communities will continue to thrive; just as other ethnic communities will.
Being an American today is MUCH MORE different than it was decades ago. The true concept of America's "melting pot" was NOT a diverse, multicultural society, but the assimilation of ALL ethnic cultures into the majority Anglo-based ethnicity that defined America's identity (3). However, this idea didn't go as planned. Instead, the present-day American is a person who embraces his own ethnic identity, while believing in the concept of America. As such, there is no such thing as a "generic" American who acts and behaves accordingly.
Finally, I also believe that while Hmong have moved away from some of its customs, there will be a revival in the future. The thing is that as children of strict Hmong codes of conduct, we are enjoying this new cultural liberty. But at some point down the road, we will begin to appreciate our original roots and what they are meant to teach. Americanism is new and exciting, but when it becomes a commodity, our people will beginning searching for their uniqueness again. This is true of all ethnicities in America.
Sources:
1. http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Hmong-Americans.html (http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Hmong-Americans.html)
2. http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/12/us-usa-population-immigration-idUSN1110177520080212 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/12/us-usa-population-immigration-idUSN1110177520080212)
3. http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0601/article_483.shtml (http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc0601/article_483.shtml)
Yep.
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If we Hmong are not careful and steadfast we will get wiped out.
I see a lot of Hmong cultural preservation and resurgence going on, but at the same time there are many examples of us getting assimilated into mainstream society. Over a long duration can we really survive as a ppl without land/autonomy?
I'm a pretty ardent Hmong pride kind of guy; my kids have Hmong names, they practice Hmong culture, are taught to be proud of their heritage and who they are, etc, but I must also admit that they cannot speak Hmong as well as they should. They spoke Hmong relatively well before they started school but as soon as they went to kindergarten they mostly only speak English now. It's from all the English exposure they get from school and TV. I'm even worried for my kids if they can carry on our way of life into the future. And like I said, I'm an ardent Hmong pride kind of guy.
I have other cousins and friends who are less "Hmong pride" than me and they give their kids white/other names, don't really speak or teach their kids Hmong language, culture, etc, so yes, these are worrisome signs. They have little or no sense of cultural preservation and destiny at all. The only saving grace is that they aren't treacherous Christians who will come back to attack their own ppl and culture.. So what's going to happen to their kids as they grow up and have kids of their own? If they and their kids are barely holding onto or practicing anything Hmong then their kids wouldn't be able to pass anything to their future kids, and so on and so on. One can only surmise that the "Hmong line" dies off with this branch.
The biggest killer to Hmong culture and our way of life is Christianity (both Hmong Christians and white Christians). I have a cousin who is a Christian and this dude attacks the Hmong way of life hardcore. He give his kids English/Christian names, teaches only the damn bible (don't know which fake version though) to them, etc. And his kids can't speak a word of Hmong, I kid you not. ...This dude just got cuckoo bird'd and will be carrying on the Christian traditions whereas he's destroyed any Hmong left in him and his line. These type of ppl, and there are many of them, are the most dangerous to Hmong survival 'cause they will keep on trying to convert and assimilate us into the white/Christian status quo.
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Why would I treasure a pile of graveyard?
Nobody knows if there's an "afterlife". I'm not even positive if there is a Hmong realm where the ancestors wait for us. All we know is of this current world we live in. And thus we must make all the preparations to ensure that the Hmong way of life exists onwards and for a very, very long time for future Hmong generations to come.
Btw, you are one of those "white is right" ppl I'm talking about.
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Nobody knows if there's an "afterlife". I'm not even positive if there is a Hmong realm where the ancestors wait for us. All we know is of this current world we live in. And thus we must make all the preparations to ensure that the Hmong way of life exists onwards and for a very, very long time for future Hmong generations to come.
Btw, you are one of those "white is right" ppl I'm talking about.
I'm a Christian and yet I am very opposed to the way Hmong church leaders attack the culture and teach their congregations to abandon everything that is Hmong. Trust me when I say that I have voiced my perspective many, many times. One cannot be a Christian or even understand it unless it is through one's own culture.
But it's not just the leaders because they are only giving in to what many congregation members want. This is why I said that in the next few years Hmong churches will only exist as a social playground. Those who are well-versed in English will opt for American churches instead where their faith can actually grow and they will learn about their faith. I could write a whole topic about this but that is another thread.
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As it is written in Phillippians, chapter 3 and it says that culture is meaningless since one can strike and smite as one blow and the culture is dead. Again, treasuring something here on Earth is meaningless.
Then why are you still here on earth?
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Great Sage. O0 O0
;D ;D ;) O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 8) 8) 8)
The only white boy in here is AfterLife. The only white washed is Afterlife. The only person with a dying culture is Afterlife. THe only person dominated by whites is AfterLife. The only person who believes in GOD is AfterLife. The only person who believes that the white man's GOD created hmong is Afterlife. The only person that can read and cite verses from the bible is Afterlife. The only person that can tell a american folk tale, instead of a hmong ghost tale is Afterlife. The only person who puts down hmong people/ culture is Afterlife. The only person who is tricked is Afterlife. The only person who claimed being Jewish is Afterlife. The only person with the common sense of Hmongs not having the ability to speak in Hmong and will disappear is Afterlife.
Hey brother Afterlife,
I think you're having a identity crisis. It seems like you haven already fallen into the white man's trap. You talk about Hmong culture as if it is dying, but what are you doing to perserve it. Are you Hmong anymore? Do you know Hmong Culture? You seem to defend the white race as if they are your brother and sister. As if they are innocent, as if we the Hmongs need saving from the bible GOD. I need you need to pm me so I can help you with Hmong culture and how to be a Real Hmong American living in DA USA. Serious PM me.
I don't care which religion you believe in, but I care about the principle and values taught by them. Anything esle such as stories and all that balony is gibberish.
Common sense Examples from Religions
For example 1. Christianity-God told Moses to invade Canaan because it is the promise land. That story has already breach the principle that GOD teaches. (Thy shall not hurt thy neighbor. thy shall nor steal or kill)??? Moses and his croonies killed the people of Canaan.
Example 2. Muslim(Allah). They have good principles, but I don't their idea of stoning people and killing people for small crimes.
EXAMPLE 3.Islam(ALLAH???)-I don't have any problems with women wearing face mask, but they should have the right to not wear it and not be kill for their choice.
Example 4. Buddism-they have good principles. they don't teach violence or converting others.
Example 5. Shamanism. they have good principle. they don't teach violence.
So what will you choose? Religion? Or the CORE knowledge of Principles, Morals, and Values from these religions. Here is a saying in Hmong. Throw away the useless and keep the the useful ones.
We as human beings must live by the good and useful principles to guide us into the right path. Dont believe in the stories of the bible or hmong folk tales. There is a reason why it is call folk tales. Some may be true stories and damn well entertaining, but in the end they are just stories and nothing more.
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If we Hmong are not careful and steadfast we will get wiped out.
I see a lot of Hmong cultural preservation and resurgence going on, but at the same time there are many examples of us getting assimilated into mainstream society. Over a long duration can we really survive as a ppl without land/autonomy?
I'm a pretty ardent Hmong pride kind of guy; my kids have Hmong names, they practice Hmong culture, are taught to be proud of their heritage and who they are, etc, but I must also admit that they cannot speak Hmong as well as they should. They spoke Hmong relatively well before they started school but as soon as they went to kindergarten they mostly only speak English now. It's from all the English exposure they get from school and TV. I'm even worried for my kids if they can carry on our way of life into the future. And like I said, I'm an ardent Hmong pride kind of guy.
I have other cousins and friends who are less "Hmong pride" than me and they give their kids white/other names, don't really speak or teach their kids Hmong language, culture, etc, so yes, these are worrisome signs. They have little or no sense of cultural preservation and destiny at all. The only saving grace is that they aren't treacherous Christians who will come back to attack their own ppl and culture.. So what's going to happen to their kids as they grow up and have kids of their own? If they and their kids are barely holding onto or practicing anything Hmong then their kids wouldn't be able to pass anything to their future kids, and so on and so on. One can only surmise that the "Hmong line" dies off with this branch.
The biggest killer to Hmong culture and our way of life is Christianity (both Hmong Christians and white Christians). I have a cousin who is a Christian and this dude attacks the Hmong way of life hardcore. He give his kids English/Christian names, teaches only the damn bible (don't know which fake version though) to them, etc. And his kids can't speak a word of Hmong, I kid you not. ...This dude just got cuckoo bird'd and will be carrying on the Christian traditions whereas he's destroyed any Hmong left in him and his line. These type of ppl, and there are many of them, are the most dangerous to Hmong survival 'cause they will keep on trying to convert and assimilate us into the white/Christian status quo.
Christianity and shamanism are religions and doesn't necessarily effect culture. So are you saying that a Christian who can speak hmong, dress in hmong clothes, eat hmong food, respects their elders; is killing the hmong culture compared to a person who practice shamanism but can't speak hmong, wear American clothes, only eat American food, and disrespect their elders?
PRIDE CAN BE A WEAKNESS.
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Because God gave me life and I choose to go and worship him. Did you know that culture brings hatred that is full of memories of racism? If God would've come by now, as He as said in Revelation, God would wipe EVERY tears of man in the end of times. If this occur and God strikes you at your heart with His love, which is His sword, you will say, "goodbye cruel world. HELLO HEAVEN!" Once you see or feel God, what He is doing to you is making you forget the past, PERMANENTLY! Imagine, the joy is sooo great that you have forgotten who you really are on Earth. It's that fun. It's like getting high onto something, but you are not doing anything to your body. Only God is doing that to you because you allow His love to be all around you. God's love will wipeout man's memory of evil things ONLY--that includes history books as well. If you re-read WWII of what Hitler did, you will be pist off. So, how do you prevent THAT from happening which will cause hatred to others? Easy, just love them to death to the point they forget what just happened.
My point is this: You can use a history book as a weapon to destroy others like how false Christian uses our bible to destroy God, can be like, "OH MY GOODNESS! YOU SON OF MA B---!"
I believe there are some books that are weapons to go against other people since History is a weapon that brings grudges on all nation. For example, the rape of nanking. How long will the Chinese will end their grudge towards the Japanese? I don't know? How do you stop it? Easy. Love them to death and end their civilization since they became one with God. I tell you the truth, God is going to war against human government and will conquer this world with one word. He will do it again like how he did with Christ and He will do it AGAIN at the end of times. And I ain't afraid of that because why would I go against my creator? Therefore, earth will perish and who cares. God did say that we should not love this world but hated instead because all things are corrupted by Satan himself. So why nightyboy? Why would you ask me this lame question? Do you treasure this world or not? Are you with the Trinity, or are you with the god of this world?
Why did I ask? The answer is because you're still here. You do treasure something here that's why you're here. :2funny:
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Christianity and shamanism are religions and doesn't necessarily effect culture. So are you saying that a Christian who can speak hmong, dress in hmong clothes, eat hmong food, respects their elders; is killing the hmong culture compared to a person who practice shamanism but can't speak hmong, wear American clothes, only eat American food, and disrespect their elders?
PRIDE CAN BE A WEAKNESS.
1) Religion certainly does affect culture, and greatly I might add. Perhaps you have a different definition of what culture is compared to me, so let's state our definition for one another.
Mine is this: The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs (religion), institutions, and all other products of human work and thought... I got the definition off of the www.thefreedictionary.com (http://www.thefreedictionary.com), but that's what I would have said anyway.... So to me culture is like your whole body, whereas religion is the head portion of the body.
2) I'm not sure what you are trying to say or compare in your second part about the Christian and the person who doesn't know much about Hmong language... State concisely or reword it and I will answer it.
3) A quality like "respecting elders" (unless we have differing definitions) pretty much is universal and can be found in other cultures/ppl as well so it's not exclusive to us only. Not only that it's low on the totem pole (along with "eating Hmong food" and "wearing Hmong clothes") for defining who we are, no?
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I'm a Christian and yet I am very opposed to the way Hmong church leaders attack the culture and teach their congregations to abandon everything that is Hmong. Trust me when I say that I have voiced my perspective many, many times. One cannot be a Christian or even understand it unless it is through one's own culture.
But it's not just the leaders because they are only giving in to what many congregation members want. This is why I said that in the next few years Hmong churches will only exist as a social playground. Those who are well-versed in English will opt for American churches instead where their faith can actually grow and they will learn about their faith. I could write a whole topic about this but that is another thread.
BNM,
I've read several of your posts, here and in the faith forum, and you sound like a genuinely good and intelligent person. And you often espouse the view of maintaining the Hmong culture, practices, ways, etc. But what I don't understand is how can you, as a Christian, be able to compromise and reconcile the foreign Christian beliefs with ours and still consider yourself preserving Hmong culture?
You and others as Christians,,,, do you still;
1) noj xyoo tshiab and change up the xwmkab every year?
2) call upon the ancestors to come and join your feast (New Years or other special occasions)?
3) call upon your grandfather(s) to help guide you when "ntuj tsaus nti'?
4) practice the one month caiv for just giving birth and also hu plig for your child?
5) accept, practice and/or participate in ua neeb, whether it's for yourself or for others?
6) house blessing?
7) occasionally hu yus tus menyuam (or whoever) tus plig rov qab los when s/he is sick?
8.) ua nyuj dab for father?
9) lwv qaib and other practices for weddings?
10) raws Hmoob kevcai for funerals? (Very important aspect right here).
11) believe in Hmong after life? Reincarnation?
Those above are just the things I can think of for which Christians won't do anymore once they convert. There might be more that I missed.
And worst, the hardcore Christians, like those CMA, will even come back to attack the Hmong ways. So how can they be Hmong when they seek to eradicate big and important portion(s) of the Hmong culture?
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2) I'm not sure what you are trying to say or compare in your second part about the Christian and the person who doesn't know much about Hmong language... State concisely or reword it and I will answer it.
I will reword it for night912: Why are you so quick to point out wrongs of Hmong Christians, when there are plenty of Hmong people out there who practice Shamanism, but yet there kids don't speak or write in Hmong, listen to Hmong music, care about Hmong traditions, etc....
But yet, there is a lot of Hmong Christians who can read and write in Hmong....
So quick to point the finger at the Hmong Christians, but yet the Hmong Shamans are also losing the battle of the Hmong Culture as well. 95% of Hmong people who live in France do not speak Hmong anymore nor do they practice Hmong rituals... be it Christians or not... ask a Hmong Fabkis and they will tell you.
Hmong Shamans that live in America, tons of their kids do not practice or even speak Hmong anymore nor do they know the rituals.... I have tons of little cousins who live in St. Paul and do not speak or write Hmong, English only... ???
How many times have you been to a Shaman Funeral and none of the adolescent know what to say(greet) or even know when to bow down when the Shaman playes the qeej. ???
And where is the blame on the Hmong Atheist, who even cares less than the Hmong Christians about keeping the Hmong Culture... since they don't even believe in anything, they don't even care about any rituals etc... :o
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Christianity and shamanism are religions and doesn't necessarily effect culture. So are you saying that a Christian who can speak hmong, dress in hmong clothes, eat hmong food, respects their elders; is killing the hmong culture compared to a person who practice shamanism but can't speak hmong, wear American clothes, only eat American food, and disrespect their elders?
PRIDE CAN BE A WEAKNESS.
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A religion is something you believe what would happen to you or where you would go after you die. Examples are Christianity, Buddhism, judaism, Hinduism, and etc... Hmong shamanism is not a religion, not the Hmong religion. It's a belief and a culture.
How can a Hmong person practices shamanism without speaking Hmong? Is he going to speak English or what? In fact, shamans use their own words that we, the general Hmong speaking people, do not understand for the most part. That's why a shaman always has his own people to watch him while performing.
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Christianity and shamanism are religions and doesn't necessarily effect culture. So are you saying that a Christian who can speak hmong, dress in hmong clothes, eat hmong food, respects their elders; is killing the hmong culture compared to a person who practice shamanism but can't speak hmong, wear American clothes, only eat American food, and disrespect their elders?
PRIDE CAN BE A WEAKNESS.
A religion is something you believe what would happen to you or where you would go after you die. Examples are Christianity, Buddhism, judaism, Hinduism, and etc... Hmong shamanism is not a religion, not the Hmong religion. It's a belief and a culture.
How can a Hmong person practices shamanism without speaking Hmong? Is he going to speak English or what? In fact, shamans use their own words that we, the general Hmong speaking people, do not understand for the most part. That's why a shaman always has his own people to watch him while performing.
You just contradict yourself about speaking hmong.
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:)
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1) Religion certainly does affect culture, and greatly I might add. Perhaps you have a different definition of what culture is compared to me, so let's state our definition for one another.
Mine is this: The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs (religion), institutions, and all other products of human work and thought... I got the definition off of the www.thefreedictionary.com (http://www.thefreedictionary.com), but that's what I would have said anyway.... So to me culture is like your whole body, whereas religion is the head portion of the body.
2) I'm not sure what you are trying to say or compare in your second part about the Christian and the person who doesn't know much about Hmong language... State concisely or reword it and I will answer it.
3) A quality like "respecting elders" (unless we have differing definitions) pretty much is universal and can be found in other cultures/ppl as well so it's not exclusive to us only. Not only that it's low on the totem pole (along with "eating Hmong food" and "wearing Hmong clothes") for defining who we are, no?
1. My definition is similar if not the same. However the you don't use that definition on your view of culture. You confused culture with religion. So like I said religion doesn't necessarily effect culture. With your definition above, take away religion, there are still other traits there to define what culture is.
2. Look at viking's post
3. Hmong clothes is art. You said it's low on the totem pole, so you're saying there is a ranking system to culture?
To sum it all up, you think that as long as some practice shamanism than they are more "Hmong pride."
Like I said pride can be a weakness.
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1. My definition is similar if not the same. However the you don't use that definition on your view of culture. You confused culture with religion. So like I said religion doesn't necessarily effect culture. With your definition above, take away religion, there are still other traits there to define what culture is.
Define what religion is to you then. And what exactly does Hmong religion encompass? Give specific examples and parameters. Perhaps we're both confused here because we have different definitions. You take a stab at it and I will see if I agree or not and I'll add on to it.
2. Look at viking's post
I seriously doubt you wanted to say half of Viking'd-Hmong's ramblings. He's not focused at all. I brought up how Christian Hmong are the biggest killers of our culture and yet he talks about atheists and the sorts to divert blame, as if their actions will absolve his own treachery or something.
3. Hmong clothes is art. You said it's low on the totem pole, so you're saying there is a ranking system to culture?
You don't subjectively rank things? You put the same value as occasionally "cooking Hmong food", like eating mov ntxuag dej or zaub ntsuab hau, to that of say language or religion?
When you think of a particular ethnic ppl's identity, do you right off the bat think about some of their inconsequentia l food (of which other ppl may have as well)? As if that's a salient quality?
To sum it all up, you think that as long as some practice shamanism than they are more "Hmong pride."
Did I say that? Perhaps you should expand on your summary there.
Like I said pride can be a weakness.
Our "pride" definition here may not be the same again.
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I will reword it for night912: Why are you so quick to point out wrongs of Hmong Christians, when there are plenty of Hmong people out there who practice Shamanism, but yet there kids don't speak or write in Hmong, listen to Hmong music, care about Hmong traditions, etc....
But yet, there is a lot of Hmong Christians who can read and write in Hmong....
So quick to point the finger at the Hmong Christians, but yet the Hmong Shamans are also losing the battle of the Hmong Culture as well. 95% of Hmong people who live in France do not speak Hmong anymore nor do they practice Hmong rituals... be it Christians or not... ask a Hmong Fabkis and they will tell you.
Hmong Shamans that live in America, tons of their kids do not practice or even speak Hmong anymore nor do they know the rituals.... I have tons of little cousins who live in St. Paul and do not speak or write Hmong, English only... ???
How many times have you been to a Shaman Funeral and none of the adolescent know what to say(greet) or even know when to bow down when the Shaman playes the qeej. ???
And where is the blame on the Hmong Atheist, who even cares less than the Hmong Christians about keeping the Hmong Culture... since they don't even believe in anything, they don't even care about any rituals etc... :o
So how do kids who have forgotten (or haven't learnt yet) Hmong ways, atheists, etc, somehow absolve you of your wrongs? They are for another discussion. We are at the moment talking specifically about your foreign Christian religion and how it's killing the Hmong ways for now. If you read my post "reply#24" you will see I brought up the issue of some of my cousins and friends who don't think about or value the importance of Hmong cultural preservation, destiny, and future aspirations as a collective group. So yes, I'm aware of it.
I poke at the Christians primarily because they make up a large portion of who goes against us and are relentless in their desire to attack and convert the rest of us. Just take a look at you. Here's you, a guy who believes in Jehova on mere faith (but won't do the same for the Hmong way however,,, double standards?) because he's been indoctrinated and returns to belittle our way of life, our beliefs.
Indeed the ppl who have forgotten and are just ignorant of Hmong ways are not as bad as Christians. If talked to and taught they will return without much fuss, or at least they won't fight us. They are often apologetic and admit to their oversights thus are salvageable. It's not the same with the Christians. These guys (including you) will fight tooth and nail to keep the foreign religion/culture as part of theirs and at the same time turn their sabres on us. And the proofs are in here and the "faith" section. But that's not even the worst part of it. Even when you don't want them they will keep on coming back trying to convert the rest of your family/ppl; They're like zombie bots. These ppl are just Christians who can speak Hmong and not really Hmong anymore. So yes, they are THE big threat, whether they see this or not.
And no, I don't really consider Christians holding onto Hmong language/writing as preserving our culture. Why? Because now these qualities are just tools for them to perpetuate the foreign Christian religion only. It's just a medium for them to convert more of our ppl. They may in some minor yet perverse way, "preserve parts of our culture (language)" but on the other hand they destroy (like religion and everything ancillary to it) more than what they're saving. The Christian doctrines compell them to do so. Thus they then will ask us to accept and ingrain this mixed hybrid Christian baloney as being part of the Hmong culture.... Are you not shamed at all that some foreign imperial Christian ppl/culture just pissed on your ancestors' beliefs and yet you're going to accept this? If these foreigners can actually prove that their gods are real then sure, that will be fine, but they can't even do so. So why would you accept this nonsense? Have you no pride?
Funny for a guy who names himself "Viking" (one who conquers?) yet doesn't see that he just got Viking'd (one who is conquered). And you've been Viking'd by the White Christians.
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You just contradict yourself about speaking hmong.
How? Did you say "a person practices shamanism without speaking Hmong"? As far as I know, all Hmong shamans speak Hmong while performing shamanic rituals, though there is an exception to that. Did you mean Hmong people who practice the Hmong religion but their children can't speak hmong? Did you use the term shamanism to refer to Hmong religion? I think younger Hmong Christians who do not know much about Hmong culture think that Hmong shamanism is the Hmong religion. It's not.
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I go to yall hmong new years and I see no religion. All I see are the hmong culture.
and it is a beautiful thing.
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=shamanism (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=shamanism)
Religion:
Ua neeb
House blessing
Believe in afterlife
More that missed
Custom:
Wedding practicees
New year
More that I missed
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http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=shamanism (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=shamanism)
Religion:
Ua neeb
House blessing
Believe in afterlife
FUNERAL + rituals
More that missed
Custom:
Wedding practicees
New year
More that I missed
Good start. Research more. And think it through more.
For me anything doing with spirits and the supernaturals are considered part of religion. So religion even permeates into parts of weddings and New Years.
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Good start. Research more. And think it through more.
For me anything doing with spirits and the supernaturals are considered part of religion. So religion even permeates into parts of weddings and New Years.
So like I said, you're confusing religion with culture.
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So like I said, you're confusing religion with culture.
You just agreed earlier that you would have defined culture the same way I did, with religion embedded into culture.
Go ahead and take the time to explain again. Instead of just a 1 or 2 liners, expand more on what you want to say. If not then forget it and go bug 1luv and Gracified23 of which they're than more happy to oblige you with the same 1-2 liners that leaves more questions than answers.
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You just agreed earlier that you would have defined culture the same way I did, with religion embedded into culture.
Go ahead and take the time to explain again. Instead of just a 1 or 2 liners, expand more on what you want to say. If not then forget it and go bug 1luv and Gracified23 of which they're than more happy to oblige you with the same 1-2 liners that leaves more questions than answers.
Your definition is not what you describe as culture. What you are describing is religion. Most of the example you list are related to religion. So even if someone doesn't practice that particular religion but does practice the other traits, they are still practicing culture.
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Our "pride" definition here may not be the same again.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pride (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pride)
Here are some examples of pride. Since the topic is about Hmong, the examples are of Hmong.
Pride can be a weakness when.....
1. When a Hmong person won't attend a Hmong culture event hosted by Christians simply because he thinks his religion is correct, even though it has nothing to do with religion
2. Some thinks another is "white wash" just because they can't speak or write Hmong
3. Someone thinks another is "less" because they don't think like he thinks
4. Someone will not listen to the views of others (concerning Hmong) just because he thinks the other person is "less" Hmong
5. Someone thinks that it's right for a Hmong person to do a "hate" crime against "whites" but gets angry when the situation is reversed
6. Some blaming it on racism, without analyzing the situation :police:
These are just a few examples. Pride can lead to arrogance, narrow minded, and hate. It is a weakness when it leads to that and the individual will see everything blindly.
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How? Did you say "a person practices shamanism without speaking Hmong"? As far as I know, all Hmong shamans speak Hmong while performing shamanic rituals, though there is an exception to that. Did you mean Hmong people who practice the Hmong religion but their children can't speak hmong? Did you use the term shamanism to refer to Hmong religion? I think younger Hmong Christians who do not know much about Hmong culture think that Hmong shamanism is the Hmong religion. It's not.
Shamanism is part of the Hmong religion/belief. Although they do believe in ancestor veneration (if that's what you're referring to) as well. I used "shamanism" simply because people in here understand/recognized it as the Hmong religion. In simple words, they know it by shamanism.
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Your definition is not what you describe as culture. What you are describing is religion. Most of the example you list are related to religion. So even if someone doesn't practice that particular religion but does practice the other traits, they are still practicing culture.
Ok, I think I understand where you're going now.
Yes I mostly described cultural markers/aspects having to do with religion (spiritual stuffs). I wanted you to know how much religion encompasses our Hmong way of life, even including certain parts of weddings of which you categorized as "custom", which is fair.
Now yes, even if others (like Christian Hmong) are not practicing any religious Hmong stuffs, but are "eating Hmong food" and "wearing Hmong clothes" they still are practicing some Hmong culture. But these are so few and so miniscule? Would you still consider them Hmong if that's all they are doing?.... If that's the case then a White Mormon guy who goes to Hmong New Years and dresses up in a traditional Hmong outfit, sings 1 song in Hmong, and eats a bowl of zaub ntsuab, then he's qualified as a Hmong too then(?)
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BNM,
I've read several of your posts, here and in the faith forum, and you sound like a genuinely good and intelligent person. And you often espouse the view of maintaining the Hmong culture, practices, ways, etc. But what I don't understand is how can you, as a Christian, be able to compromise and reconcile the foreign Christian beliefs with ours and still consider yourself preserving Hmong culture?
You and others as Christians,,,, do you still;
1) noj xyoo tshiab and change up the xwmkab every year?
2) call upon the ancestors to come and join your feast (New Years or other special occasions)?
3) call upon your grandfather(s) to help guide you when "ntuj tsaus nti'?
4) practice the one month caiv for just giving birth and also hu plig for your child?
5) accept, practice and/or participate in ua neeb, whether it's for yourself or for others?
6) house blessing?
7) occasionally hu yus tus menyuam (or whoever) tus plig rov qab los when s/he is sick?
8.) ua nyuj dab for father?
9) lwv qaib and other practices for weddings?
10) raws Hmoob kevcai for funerals? (Very important aspect right here).
11) believe in Hmong after life? Reincarnation?
Those above are just the things I can think of for which Christians won't do anymore once they convert. There might be more that I missed.
And worst, the hardcore Christians, like those CMA, will even come back to attack the Hmong ways. So how can they be Hmong when they seek to eradicate big and important portion(s) of the Hmong culture?
Some of the things you listed are the religious aspects of the Hmong and not necessarily cultural. There are many things on that list that my family practices because it is a Hmong custom. Being a Hmong should not interfere with being a Christian nor vice versa. The two should enhance each other until they are one. Just as following Shamanism should not be separate from being a Hmong or vice versa.
What Hmong Christians miss is that an Italian Christian is not necessarily following the same traditions as an Irish Christian. They may read from the same Bible but they insert their own customs to how they magnify the same God, which they both believe in.
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Ok, I think I understand where you're going now.
Yes I mostly described cultural markers/aspects having to do with religion (spiritual stuffs). I wanted you to know how much religion encompasses our Hmong way of life, even including certain parts of weddings of which you categorized as "custom", which is fair.
Now yes, even if others (like Christian Hmong) are not practicing any religious Hmong stuffs, but are "eating Hmong food" and "wearing Hmong clothes" they still are practicing some Hmong culture. But these are so few and so miniscule? Would you still consider them Hmong if that's all they are doing?.... If that's the case then a White Mormon guy who goes to Hmong New Years and dresses up in a traditional Hmong outfit, sings 1 song in Hmong, and eats a bowl of zaub ntsuab, then he's qualified as a Hmong too then(?)
You are going off course with the morman. The white morman wasn't Hmong to start off with. So are you saying a Hmong person isn't hmong if he doesn't practice culture?
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You are going off course with the morman. The white morman wasn't Hmong to start off with. So are you saying a Hmong person isn't hmong if he doesn't practice culture?
Then what defines a Hmong? Elaborate on this using more than just 2 sentences, pls.
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YeejKoob13,
This topic is "Is the Hmong culture dying?"... your response is, "Christian Hmong are the biggest killers of our culture."
I am going to tell you the truth and please do not be so narrow minded and listen.
The real answer is: Yes, our culture is dying, but not because of Christian Hmongs or Shaman believers, it's called, becoming "AMERICAN". Instead of really thinking about why our culture is dying, you are quick to blame Hmong Christians with your opinions, rather than facts.
So you are saying that because of Christianity, Hmong people...
Play flag football, basketball, go clubbing, go bar hopping, go to casinos, get divorced, play Texas hold'em, do fantasy football, play video games, race cars, break dance, do indian dances, emulate koreans, wear skinny jeans, sag our pants, gang bang, do drive by shooting, stab each other, kill each other, go to New Years and start fights, smoke meth, drop extacy/molly pills, rap, create pyramid scams, have bass booming systems, do the harlem shake, post videos on youtube, speak English and the new thing, wear bikinis at Hmong New Year pageants?
These are all things that a lot of Hmong people now do and is becoming our Hmong Culture.
Last time I checked, none of these have anything to do with Christianity.. .
Have you yet asked a Hmong Fabkis what it is like over in France?
They barely speak Hmong anymore, they speak mainly in French, and at the Hmong Funerals, Cows and Pigs are not used, they do not even play the drums or use the qeej anymore and at their New Years, they do not perform the lwm qaib anymore.
Do you think their lost of our Hmong Culture is happening in France because of Christianity?
Me and my Wife both have Hmong names, I have 2 kids, both with Hmong Names, how many Hmong people have or change their names into American names? So are you saying, every Hmong person with American names are Christians? LOL, you probably say it's because of the Christians why Hmong people take on American names... I sure hope you and your kids names aren't American names...
These changes are called, Hmong people ASSIMILATING into AMERICA, ASSIMILATING into FRANCE... not because of Hmong Christians making them this way.
Just take a look at you. Here's you, a guy who believes in Jehova on mere faith (but won't do the same for the Hmong way however,,, double standards?) because he's been indoctrinated and returns to belittle our way of life, our beliefs.
You do not know me, to say that I believe in Yahweh on mere faith and never did have Faith in the Hmong ways.... Like I said, my mom is a Shaman (Niam Neeb) my younger brother is a (Txiv Neeb). 20 years of my child hood was in Shamanism. So, it's not like I do not understand it nor know of it, I was born into it. And it's not because I've been indoctrinated that I became a Christian. My life is a testament to the Lord and only to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Let me ask you, when I was locked up, where were the Shamans, when my friend was shot in the head, where were the Shamans, when my brother died, what could the Shamans do? My cousins are Meth addicts, why can't the Shamans cure them?
Yes I had faith in the Shamans, until they said, their dab can not help me nor would ever help me. You bash on Christianity, but yet only Jesus saved me And Changed Me and only Jesus showed me a love I never knew. You say it's only on mere faith, but I have seen a meth addict change his life around, I have seen gang members change their ways, I have seen demons cast out, all in the name of Jesus...
When I Was A Beliver In Shamanism, I've Committed Drive-bys, Made Front Page For Buglary, Did Drugs, Been Locked up. I Have Friends And famliy Who Are Locked Up For killing And Stealing, Friends and famliy Who Have Been Killed, Friends And Family Who Are Drug Addicts And Dealers, You Know What They All Have In Common?
They All Claim They Are Shaman Believers, Do You See A Pattern Here, They Just Don't Give A Crap About Anyone Or Anything, So How Much Faith In Shamanism Should We Have?
Tell me, what has Shamanisms done to help any of these people change?
Do I Really Want To Be Part Of This Shamanism, When They Do Not Have A Sense Of Love Or Morality? What Kind Of Faith Are These Hmong Ways?
And how Come me and The People I Know That Have Change, Are now All Christ Believers?
But Yet We Would Not Change Our Ways When We Were Shaman Believers.
Even when you don't want them they will keep on coming back trying to convert the rest of your family/ppl; They're like zombie bots.
I have no problem with Shamans or Shaman believers, I attend Shaman Funerals, New Year's, Hu Plig, and no, I do not force anyone to believe in Jesus, I live it and I speak it, but I do not force anyone, Christianity is a choice and not by force. Besides, Jesus came so we may know Forgiveness and Love, my family are Shamans, just because they believe in their dab, does not change the fact that I still Love them, I may disagree with what they do, but not once do I hate them or anyone else. I was once like you, pretty hard headed and narrow minded. Look up Lee Strobel and be open minded.
Funny for a guy who names himself "Viking" (one who conquers?) yet doesn't see that he just got Viking'd (one who is conquered). And you've been Viking'd by the White Christians.
Shame on You, for dogging on my name, especially being Hmong, you should understand what it is like to be made fun of because of your name and who you are. Being Hmong, we get Racism from Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Laotians, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc... everyone... but yet you are on the same level as the Racist Ignorant people, etc... you say I've been Viking'd, but yet you have the Racist Ignorant mentality... what are you going to say next? "Ching Chong?" ???
And if you were smart you would not claim "13", it belongs to "Surenos". :knuppel2:
Hmong Christians believe in the white ppl's false gods. And you've been Viking'd by the White Christians.
Alright YeejKoob13 the Ignorant, let me school you..
The first Christians were all Semitic in ethnicity and likely had light- to dark-brown skin. No one ever asks if Buddhism is a Asian man's religion "It was started by an Indian guy", or if Islam is a black man's religion "Islam was started in the middle east". We can presuppose that Jesus was not white because he was born in a region where the people had color. We also know that Jesus was in Africa for the bible says, "out of Egypt have I called my son" (Ho. 11:1). Furthermore we know that an Ethiopian Eunuch "of great authority" accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord before Paul (who preached to the Romans) is even converted to Christianity. (Acts 8:27-39)
But just as sin entered the human race by one man, so does redemption come by one Man, Jesus Christ. Forgiveness of sin, the essence of Christianity, is offered to all races, colors, creeds, and genders, to all “those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness” through Him (Romans 5:18). In giving His life as a substitute for sin, Jesus Christ purchased for God with His blood "men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation" (Revelation 5:9).
When it comes to Christianity the bible keeps it simple. “Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead and you are saved” (Ro. 10:9). The bible further acknowledges that, “whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Ro. 10:13). It seems to me, you certainly don’t have to be white to call upon the name of the Lord. No, Christianity is not a white man’s religion. Christianity is not a black, brown, red, or yellow religion either. The truth of the Christian faith is universally applicable to all people.
From the Webster Dictionary, Definition of Ignorant:
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified
b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
Examples of IGNORANT: He is an ignorant old racist.
Before You Make A Comment Like, "Christianity Is A White Religion", I suggest you truly know and understand something, before you make a judgement, vs making a judgement strictly based on heresay from people who you were brought up by. Do Your Own Research And Don't just take their opinions, and say it's truth, without first questioning why they believe that way about a group of people or ideas.
That's exactly what Racist Ignorant people do.
YeejKoob13 the Ignorant, You've just been Viking'd by the Hmong Viking! Ua tsaug! Tsis Ua Licas! ;)
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Then what defines a Hmong? Elaborate on this using more than just 2 sentences, pls.
Give me your definition first since you're implying that a white morman can be considered a hmong.
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Shamanism is part of the Hmong religion/belief. Although they do believe in ancestor veneration (if that's what you're referring to) as well. I used "shamanism" simply because people in here understand/recognized it as the Hmong religion. In simple words, they know it by shamanism.
Got you. But we, my generation and older, never consider shamanism as the Hmong religion. Don't trust me? Just ask the elders, Yue Pheng Xiong, or Dr. La Yang. Shamanism is just a belief that Hmong use to heal sickness (kev kho mob kho nkeeg). It doesn't have anything to do with the Hmong funeral procedure (kev pam tuag).
The Hmong religion is called Moj Kav Siv Yis. It's also a belief of God (Tswv Ntuj) that was created by Siv Yis, just like Christianity was created by Jesus.
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Shamanism is a part of the Hmong belief system. Saying that it isn't is like saying that a priest isn't a part of Christianity.
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Shamanism is a part of the Hmong belief system. Saying that it isn't is like saying that a priest isn't a part of Christianity.
Shamanism is part of the Hmong belief system, but it is not the Hmong religion. Unlike the White religion whereas priest and Christianity go together, shamanism and Hmong religion are two separate rituals. One can't be used with the other. We do not use shamanic ritual to a dead person. And at the same time, we do not use the funeral procedure (kev Pam tuag) to a living person. Btw, we do not call these people playing Hmong qeej at the funeral home shaman. Txiv qeej and txiv neeb are two different titles. You get this confused because you don't view it inside out. You interpret it the way a non Hmong person see it as to Christianity.
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"Hmongviking"
I read your similar retort in the other thread "Hmong country a possibility?" in the "debate forum" a few weeks ago. I just didn't have time to reply because of work, travel, and business. And frankly I thought it was also weak so didn't bother with it. But it seems you think you have found a really good comeback and thus have posted it a second time. Ok, I will address them.
So you are saying that because of Christianity, Hmong people...
Play flag football, basketball, go clubbing, go bar hopping, go to casinos, get divorced, play Texas hold'em, do fantasy football, play video games, race cars, break dance, do indian dances, emulate koreans, wear skinny jeans, sag our pants, gang bang, do drive by shooting, stab each other, kill each other, go to New Years and start fights, smoke meth, drop extacy/molly pills, rap, create pyramid scams, have bass booming systems, do the harlem shake, post videos on youtube, speak English and the new thing, wear bikinis at Hmong New Year pageants?
These are all things that a lot of Hmong people now do and is becoming our Hmong Culture.
You need to analyze better. Of the qualities you listed above,
1) There's no Hmong taboo saying we can't do many/any of those;
2) Some of those qualities are already in our culture, like gambling;
3) More importantly, they do not compromise our Hmong integrity;
On point 3. Those are qualities we are just adding on top of ours. We did not ERASE any of our cultural markers. And if we did not erase, then we still have, and thus we are still preserving. So our integrity of being is still there.
Let me illustrate for you. When we speak English, we are just using it as an extra tool to survive in this country. At the same time we can still speak Hmong. And we still use Hmong. So we have both English and Hmong. Thus our Hmong language (cultural marker) is still intact. Thus our integrity is still there.
Now it's not the same with Christianity affecting the Hmong, however. When a Hmong turns to Christianity he THROWS away and REPLACES many Hmong cultural markers, primarily anything to do with spirits/spiritual stuffs (ua neeb, hu plig, pav neeg tuag, xwmkab, xyoo tshiab, afterlife, reincarnation, etc), which are part of what Hmong believe in. And these qualities are also what define and separate us from others.
See the difference? One adds on and/yet still keeps. The other erases and replaces. So yes, Christianity is a big killer of Hmong culture.
Assimilation affects both Hmong and Christian Hmong, but more so the Christians. And once these Hmong turn to Christianity it's almost impossible to return them to the Hmong ways again. Worst, they come back and try to convert their own ppl into a foreign religion(s). You yourself personally might not try to convert ppl as you're probably one of those half-hearted Christians who's neither here nor there, but the true and hardcore ones will do this.
You also brought up the point that Christian Hmong are "preserving" Hmong language via church teaching their kids to read and write... Well it's not as if all those kids can speak Hmong sufficiently either. I don't know which church you go to but the one that I know of, the kids there are about equal in level with the non-church Hmong kids at speaking/understanding Hmong. However, what's worst for those church kids is that they don't even have Hmong religious cultural markers (and the ancillaries) to hold onto, unlike the regular Hmong kids, so their assimilation is even more in depth.
If you read poster Believe_N_Me's entry (reply#28) you will see she even states about the church Hmong not preserving Hmong culture as well. And she's a Christian.
Have you yet asked a Hmong Fabkis what it is like over in France?
Do you think their lost of our Hmong Culture is happening in France because of Christianity?
I have never been to France. But I hear similar stories to what you're describing.
Assimilation affects all Hmong. And I view Christianity as a subclass of assimilation. However it's such a ferocious and barnacle-like entity that it bears having its own category or talked of in greater depth than the others... And there are Christian Hmong in France and French Guyana so I'm not sure which force caused the ppl there to no longer "lwm qaib" at New Years. Is it that 1) they just simply forgot/forego many traditions? or 2) because Jehova/Christianity compel them not to do that anymore?... We would need more info before coming to a conclusion here.
Me and my Wife both have Hmong names, I have 2 kids, both with Hmong Names, how many Hmong people have or change their names into American names? So are you saying, every Hmong person with American names are Christians? LOL, you probably say it's because of the Christians why Hmong people take on American names... I sure hope you and your kids names aren't American names...
These changes are called, Hmong people ASSIMILATING into AMERICA, ASSIMILATING into FRANCE... not because of Hmong Christians making them this way.
As I said to you before, if you haven't read it, or you simply forgot or it doesn't register,,, that I'm keenly aware of the other Hmong being assimilated as well. But I'm simply not talking about them at the moment. I'm focusing on the Christians. These zombie bots are the biggest threat (unbeknownst to them) to our cultural survival for reasons I mentioned earlier already. They are so clueless so they think we are dissing them without justifications . Hopefully they will see the light one day soon.
On your other points I'm just going to randomly address them as there are too many:
1a) Shamans can only heal illnesses/ailments. They can't heal idiocy. When you were in jail, of which you got yourself into that, you should have been asking for a lawyer, not a shaman. Know which proper route to take.
b) There are many Mexicans, blacks and even whites who are Christians and somehow jehova/Christianity can't help them one bit before they went to jail or during when they are in jail as well. So how come you're not blaming god's lack of empathy here, but instead attack Hmong culture/shamans only? There are many, many instances where Christianity fails.
2) If you read one of my entries in this thread you will see what names I give my kids.
3) The number 13 is not monopolized by Mexicans or whoever only. They don't own it. The 13 in my username refers to a birthdate, like yesterday, and not associated with "Surenos" or whatever... Viking (even if it's a football team) on the other hand connotes those Nordic ppl's traits only.
4) The Jesus in history is likely an olive coloured looking guy. But the Jesus who came to yours and others doorsteps is a white guy (like the French and English missionaries back in the late 1800's and 1900's), hence I used white. This should have been a simple idea to grasp and you need not waste a lot of writing on.
5) The "Ching Chong" comment is so random and far off. I don't know how you even bridged that with me saying you got Viking'd.
6) You want the Lao, Viets, Thais, Whites, others to respect you? Then respect yourself first! If you don't even respect and have faith in your own culture/beliefs then who's going to value you?... "Not only you no country, you no culture too!"
7) Yeejkoob by virtue cannot be Viking'd.
I hope one day you will see the light that you've been indoctrinated/assimilated by another culture only. As of now you're only perpetuating something foreign at the expense of your own. Like I said earlier, if they can prove Jehova to exist then sure, believe in it, even I would too, but the truth is they can't. It makes you wonder why the Jews crucified Jesus/Jehova for? Why did the Catholics and Protestants killed and warred with one another for generations in which entire towns were burnt to the ground? Why are there new sects, like the Mormons and Jehova Witnesses popping up here and there? How do you even know which sect/denomination is correct anymore? If Jehova is true he should have only one eternal truth/version, not many. With so many of these religions around claiming theirs is the true path one should recognize that they are just man made... I'm veering off in another direction now and it would require further discussion on its own, but you should get the point here.
Ua tsaug.
You do not know me, to say that I believe in Yahweh on mere faith and never did have Faith in the Hmong ways.... Like I said, my mom is a Shaman (Niam Neeb) my younger brother is a (Txiv Neeb). 20 years of my child hood was in Shamanism. So, it's not like I do not understand it nor know of it, I was born into it. And it's not because I've been indoctrinated that I became a Christian. My life is a testament to the Lord and only to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Let me ask you, when I was locked up, where were the Shamans, when my friend was shot in the head, where were the Shamans, when my brother died, what could the Shamans do? My cousins are Meth addicts, why can't the Shamans cure them?
Yes I had faith in the Shamans, until they said, their dab can not help me nor would ever help me. You bash on Christianity, but yet only Jesus saved me And Changed Me and only Jesus showed me a love I never knew. You say it's only on mere faith, but I have seen a meth addict change his life around, I have seen gang members change their ways, I have seen demons cast out, all in the name of Jesus...
When I Was A Beliver In Shamanism, I've Committed Drive-bys, Made Front Page For Buglary, Did Drugs, Been Locked up. I Have Friends And famliy Who Are Locked Up For killing And Stealing, Friends and famliy Who Have Been Killed, Friends And Family Who Are Drug Addicts And Dealers, You Know What They All Have In Common?
They All Claim They Are Shaman Believers, Do You See A Pattern Here, They Just Don't Give A Crap About Anyone Or Anything, So How Much Faith In Shamanism Should We Have?
Tell me, what has Shamanisms done to help any of these people change?
Do I Really Want To Be Part Of This Shamanism, When They Do Not Have A Sense Of Love Or Morality? What Kind Of Faith Are These Hmong Ways?
And how Come me and The People I Know That Have Change, Are now All Christ Believers?
But Yet We Would Not Change Our Ways When We Were Shaman Believers.
I have no problem with Shamans or Shaman believers, I attend Shaman Funerals, New Year's, Hu Plig, and no, I do not force anyone to believe in Jesus, I live it and I speak it, but I do not force anyone, Christianity is a choice and not by force. Besides, Jesus came so we may know Forgiveness and Love, my family are Shamans, just because they believe in their dab, does not change the fact that I still Love them, I may disagree with what they do, but not once do I hate them or anyone else. I was once like you, pretty hard headed and narrow minded. Look up Lee Strobel and be open minded.
Shame on You, for dogging on my name, especially being Hmong, you should understand what it is like to be made fun of because of your name and who you are. Being Hmong, we get Racism from Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Laotians, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc... everyone... but yet you are on the same level as the Racist Ignorant people, etc... you say I've been Viking'd, but yet you have the Racist Ignorant mentality... what are you going to say next? "Ching Chong?" ???
And if you were smart you would not claim "13", it belongs to "Surenos". :knuppel2:
Alright YeejKoob13 the Ignorant, let me school you..
The first Christians were all Semitic in ethnicity and likely had light- to dark-brown skin. No one ever asks if Buddhism is a Asian man's religion "It was started by an Indian guy", or if Islam is a black man's religion "Islam was started in the middle east". We can presuppose that Jesus was not white because he was born in a region where the people had color. We also know that Jesus was in Africa for the bible says, "out of Egypt have I called my son" (Ho. 11:1). Furthermore we know that an Ethiopian Eunuch "of great authority" accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord before Paul (who preached to the Romans) is even converted to Christianity. (Acts 8:27-39)
But just as sin entered the human race by one man, so does redemption come by one Man, Jesus Christ. Forgiveness of sin, the essence of Christianity, is offered to all races, colors, creeds, and genders, to all “those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness” through Him (Romans 5:18). In giving His life as a substitute for sin, Jesus Christ purchased for God with His blood "men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation" (Revelation 5:9).
When it comes to Christianity the bible keeps it simple. “Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead and you are saved” (Ro. 10:9). The bible further acknowledges that, “whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Ro. 10:13). It seems to me, you certainly don’t have to be white to call upon the name of the Lord. No, Christianity is not a white man’s religion. Christianity is not a black, brown, red, or yellow religion either. The truth of the Christian faith is universally applicable to all people.
From the Webster Dictionary, Definition of Ignorant:
1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified
b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
Examples of IGNORANT: He is an ignorant old racist.
Before You Make A Comment Like, "Christianity Is A White Religion", I suggest you truly know and understand something, before you make a judgement, vs making a judgement strictly based on heresay from people who you were brought up by. Do Your Own Research And Don't just take their opinions, and say it's truth, without first questioning why they believe that way about a group of people or ideas.
That's exactly what Racist Ignorant people do.
YeejKoob13 the Ignorant, You've just been Viking'd by the Hmong Viking! Ua tsaug! Tsis Ua Licas! ;)
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Give me your definition first since you're implying that a white morman can be considered a hmong.
One who believes in and practices Hmong culture (which includes spiritual/religious aspects, which Christianity frowns on and tries to destroy) is Hmong.
What's yours?
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Some of the things you listed are the religious aspects of the Hmong and not necessarily cultural. There are many things on that list that my family practices because it is a Hmong custom. Being a Hmong should not interfere with being a Christian nor vice versa. The two should enhance each other until they are one. Just as following Shamanism should not be separate from being a Hmong or vice versa.
What Hmong Christians miss is that an Italian Christian is not necessarily following the same traditions as an Irish Christian. They may read from the same Bible but they insert their own customs to how they magnify the same God, which they both believe in.
1) I will have to ask you on your definition of culture, so I can understand why you don't consider religious/spiritual aspects to be part of it.
2) What is your definition of Hmong? What are the qualities, identifiable markers, or characteristic s, etc, of such a person?
3) If you erase any of the qualities I listed once you become a Christian then that's not preserving at all. That is if your definition of culture is similar to mine.
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One who believes in and practices Hmong culture (which includes spiritual/religious aspects, which Christianity frowns on and tries to destroy) is Hmong.
What's yours?
So let me ask you another question. Will you're children no longer be hmong if they stop practicing it?
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So let me ask you another question. Will you're children no longer be hmong if they stop practicing it?
Let's hear your definition of what is a Hmong first. When you answer that you will find the answer to your above question.
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A gray squirrel living in the woods since the beginning of time.
A gray squirrel forced to live in the city because human society encroached on its home.
Both have adapted to their environment and is evident because both are still living.
No matter what, it's still a gray squirrel and it's all about three hot meals and a cot with sex, fun, and work in between. The route that you take in order to secure those three meals and a cot is the true essence of culture. So all of you can STFU about your arbitrary, bias religious-influenced bullshit and elitist attitudes about what it means to be a Hmong.
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I read your similar retort in the other thread "Hmong country a possibility?" in the "debate forum" a few weeks ago. I just didn't have time to reply because of work, travel, and business. And frankly I thought it was also weak so didn't bother with it. But it seems you think you have found a really good comeback and thus have posted it a second time.
I re-posted a paragraph of it, because it had your name on it and was directed towards you and you did not respond, not because I found a good comeback...
1) There's no Hmong taboo saying we can't do many/any of those;
2) Some of those qualities are already in our culture, like gambling;
3) More importantly, they do not compromise our Hmong integrity;
1) No one ever said we couldn't do these things, it was stated to let you know that it's not because of Christianity that we do these things, it's called, "America". Just like when Hmong people give their kids American names, it’s not because of Christians that they do that.
2) Gambling has never been in our traditions, it only started in the 19th century. Hmong people did not have deck of cards in the Jungle. And I would not label gambling as part of our culture, if you look at any old drawings of Hmong people, you do not see them sitting around playing cards for money or at a casino pulling slots.
3) You say it does not comprise Hmong integrity, but you are wrong. The "extra tool" you are talking about has become more used and at some point may become the only tool used here in the U.S. for Hmong people. Since we are losing our Hmong language at an accelerated pace. As you can see in the Hmong community right now, there are tons of kids who do not speak Hmong anymore and now only speak English (St. Paul, MN to be exact) Thus our Hmong language (cultural marker) is not intact. Thus our integrity is not there.
See the difference? One adds on and/yet still keeps. The other erases and replaces. So yes, Christianity is a big killer of Hmong culture.
Wrong, Assimilation is the biggest killer of Hmong culture. The American Culture is not adding on with keeping our culture alive. At our New Years, the people who wear traditional Hmong clothing are disappearing and more so with the guys. Be it Shaman or Christian, no one hardly wears Hmong clothing anymore and the games they use to play, it's getting smaller and smaller, the Pov Pob area, is shrinking every year. I don't know where you are from, but here in St. Paul, that is what's happening every year. So, yes the decrease in Pov Pob, is a symbol of Hmong culture being replace with something else. So Yes, it is being erased slowly.
These zombie bots are the biggest threat (unbeknownst to them) to our cultural survival for reasons I mentioned earlier already. They are so clueless so they think we are dissing them without justifications .
The reason we keep coming back is because we do not want to be bystanders just watching our people self-destruct and not do anything about it. I don’t know about you, but I am not clueless and this is my justification: I’m tired of seeing our generation of people robbing, killing, stealing and cheating, etc. You see, this is how selfish Shaman believers are; they really don’t give a crap until it happens to them or their loved ones. Then they start blaming it on this and that. Being a Christian, I am trying to work with our lost generation and point them the right direction. When Midget’s little brother got stabbed at Moonshine last month, the Hmong 18 clan were trying to do a rally about it(they should have started this a long time ago, unlike Hmong 18 clan, Christians like me, have been working with the misguided, since I've been saved) This stuff has been going on since there was Small Piece, White Tiger, Plaza Boys, Peace MOD, etc… and if you knew who these are, then you’d know the time frame. Unlike, Shaman Believers, I’m not going to wait and be a bystander. Since you think we are “zombie bots”, you must be a ‘zombie bot” by not doing anything, you just keep watching and keep watching. And you think, we are the wrong ones for trying to help them change their ways, when you just watch. What is your clueless justification for watchin?
You yourself personally might not try to convert ppl as you're probably one of those half-hearted Christians who's neither here nor there, but the true and hardcore ones will do this.
Once again, you judge me and criticize me without knowing me, this has been a common theme for you, I guess that is why you have the stereotyping racist mentality…
I, myself, when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and came out of jail… ever since then, I have been talking to gangsters and thugs from all over, MN, CA, WI, MI, AR, OK, GA, NC(If you need names and affiliation, I can provide that as well) (and not just Hmongs but Americans as well) about changing their ways and helping them understand there is a better way of life out there(there are not any Shaman believers who do this, that I have ever ran across during my time in doing this) Since I am considered an O.G. and have done my share of dirt and have the same background as they do, they actually listen and some have even given their lives up to Jesus, and mind you, not by force, but by showing them Forgiveness and Love. Christianity is not by force, but by choice. I did not come to Christ because of force, or the fear of hell, nor brain washing, as you would call it, I came because God Forgave me for all the wrong things I have done in my life. So, calling me a half-hearted Christian, neither here nor there, is a pretty ignorant statement, I guess you do live up to your name of “YeejKoob13 the Ignorant”… need I explain ignorant again?
Let me ask you, how much changes have you done in the streets or neighborhoods for our generations of Hmongs who are going the wrong way in life? (or are you a half-hearted Shaman believer? Wait, Shaman believers don’t give a crap about which way our Hmong people go, as long as they can go and get their sickness taken care of from the Shamans, that’s all that matters to you, but please do elaborate with your answer…)
1a) Shamans can only heal illnesses/ailments. They can't heal idiocy. When you were in jail, of which you got yourself into that, you should have been asking for a lawyer, not a shaman. Know which proper route to take.
Wrong, it is because of my idiocy in the Shamanistic belief that landed me in jail, in which I was born into. The Shamans teach nothing of moralities of right and wrongs, you do what the heck you want to do and when you get sick, the Shaman will try and heal you. And when you die, just send some cows and money sacrifices their way. That's all they teach about morality, nothing.
b) There are many Mexicans, blacks and even whites who are Christians and somehow jehova/Christianity can't help them one bit before they went to jail or during when they are in jail as well. So how come you're not blaming god's lack of empathy here, but instead attack Hmong culture/shamans only? There are many, many instances where Christianity fails.
If they were truly believers in Christ, they would not do anything to land themselves in jail. So, why would I blame lack of empathy on God? When it is them who do not walk as if Christ has walked. Christianity has never failed me only Shamans and their belief.
3) The number 13 is not monopolized by Mexicans or whoever only. They don't own it. The 13 in my username refers to a birthdate, like yesterday, and not associated with "Surenos" or whatever...
13 is monopolized by Surenos, everyone knows not to use that number in their name or set, unless they are part of Surenos, "La eMe" or "MS". Where I come from, when you put a number on your name, it symbolizes who you click with or what hood you are from.
4) But the Jesus who came to yours and others doorsteps is a white guy (like the French and English missionaries back in the late 1800's and 1900's), hence I used white.
Another example of judging me without knowledge of who I am. When I was locked up, without hope, facing 30 years, I picked up the bible and read it and confessed for forgiveness and gave my life to Jesus. When I received the gift of tongue, it was in an African-American church. So, I did not see any white folks at my doorstep. I was one of the first of my family and relatives to give my life to Christ. So, No, I do not see your point of Christianity being white. But, just your racist comment of Christianity and whites.
5) The "Ching Chong" comment is so random and far off. I don't know how you even bridged that with me saying you got Viking'd.
It is not hard to comprehend this, go back and re-read it. You were doggin on my name, just like racist people do, so what do racist people say next after they dogg on your name and who you are, make fun of your language, since you have the same racist mentality of making fun of peoples name, you can go ahead and say, "Ching Chong"... understand?
Doooo IIIII Haaaavvvveeee tooooo sppeeaaakkk sssssllllloooo wwweeeerrrr... .
6) You want the Lao, Viets, Thais, Whites, others to respect you? Then respect yourself first! If you don't even respect and have faith in your own culture/beliefs then who's going to value you?
I never talked about needing respect from Lao, Viet, etc... You just can't comprehend very good. I said, Being Hmong, we get Racism from Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Laotians, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc... everyone... but yet you are on the same level as the Racist Ignorant people, etc... Being a Christian, I do not need any respect from anyone but God and I have respect and faith in myself and my culture and beliefs, thank you.
7) Yeejkoob by virtue cannot be Viking'd.
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah… After I proved to you that Jesus wasn’t white, you went and changed your answer.
I hope one day you will see the light... if they can prove Jehova to exist then sure, believe in it, even I would too, but the truth is they can't.
You are the one who does not see the Light and still live in the Dark, which is why you do not understand the Holy Spirit. I do hope you will see it one day. I've already proven Yahweh exists, time and time again, yet you do not comprehend or are unable to understand the English language.
Have you even seen what happens when Shamans Ua Neeg on a Christian family? They always, time and time again, say, "We can't help them, someone who is higher than us is protecting them."... it doesn't take a genius to figure out who that person is..
Have you seen a demon possessed Shaman? In the name of Jesus, they become enraged and terrified. Think about it, if Jesus does not exist then why in his name will the demon flee and be scared of his name?
When I received the gift of tongue, even my Mom was like, "Wow, Jesus gives a gift of tongue?" Explain to me where the gift of tongue came from, if the holy spirit does not exist?
These are all proofs of what you keep asking for, but yet cannot comprehend it, that is why you keep asking the same question for proof of Yahweh, over and over.
Are you ever going to answer these questions or just keep avoiding them?
1) What has Shamans done to preserve the Hmong culture?
(you bash Christians all day long, but yet have recognize that Shamans have done nothing to preserve the Hmong culture in anyway. For example, Kwv txhiaj, what have they done to keep Hmong people from learning this? Nothing, nor do they keep Hmong people from wearing traditional Hmong clothing at New Years or even keeping Hmong people from participating in Pov Pob. Shamans even name their kids, "American Names", which you call having a Hmong name is a (cultural marker), what happens when they have "American Names"? They lose the culture marker, right? Well, obviously they are not doing anything to preserve this culture marker. This is what the Shaman beliefs consist of, get sick, go see a Shaman, people die, go see the Shaman, have a baby, go see the Shaman, buy a house, go see the Shaman, have a New Year, go see a Shaman… that’s it… consists of no other beliefs or preservation of Hmong culture)(And still you cannot see that Hmong people are becoming American because of America and not because of Christianity)
2) My cousins are Meth addicts, why can't the Shamans cure them?
3) Tell me, what has Shamanisms done to help any of the corrupt Hmong people(gangsters, addicts, etc) change? (seems to me, Christians are the only ones that are involved with helping our Hmong people, either through missionary work or outreach programs)
4) How come (gangster, thugs and dealers) would not change our ways when they were Shaman believers, but when we gave our lives to the Lord, we changed?
5) If Christianity is such a bad thing, then how come it is the largest belief out there?
6) If Shamanism is such a great thing, then why is it dying by the years? Once this generation passes, I suspect so will Shamanism.
And, which person would you rather have in your society?
1) Me, the Shaman believer, who, when your friend introduce me to you, would later come back and jack your car, rims, or rob your house, cause now I know where you live and know what you have.
2) Or Me, the Christian, who when your friend introduce me to you, would introduce you to Christ and cause you no harm and you stuff will not get stolen.
I am going to introduce you to Jesus Christ and what he did for us.
Here is my cousin’s brother-law, he was a Meth user, robbed Walgreens, went to jail, got saved and is now a Pastor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5XbW7wsuM# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5XbW7wsuM#)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_FdGyOIp_c# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_FdGyOIp_c#)
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"Hmongviking,"
Weak... I'm debating if I should even reply.
I just got back home not too long ago and still want to visit friends and family. I'll see if I have time tonight or in a day or two to dignify your weak response.
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I think Hmong people are like cockroaches... not in a bad sense but because we are too stubborn to just die. I'm sure if we look at the outer crust of Hmong society, we see that the Hmong culture is changing and assimilating into the dominant culture. But if you look deeper...Hmong culture is alive and thriving.
I don't mean that its the same as it was a 100 years ago but its as Hmong as you can get. Look at it this way, if you walk into a house and see a propane gas burner in the gararge, metal folding chairs, plastic bamboo mats, or shoes everywhere...y ou know Hmong people live there.
I won't argue the fact that yes our culture is changing and evolving but I will say that we Hmong people have the highest resistance to change of any culture. O0
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Look at it this way, if you walk into a house and see a propane gas burner in the gararge, metal folding chairs, plastic bamboo mats, or shoes everywhere...y ou know Hmong people live there.
But many of the things you've listed are not Hmong, those things are adopted from other groups.