Does Hmong Shamanism have any foundation of itself?

[dogmai]

What's the question?

If you don't know the answer then just say so, instead of trying to avoid it.

[dogmai]

What was the question? I don't read back, I read quotes.

That's the whole point. There's your problem right there.

[dogmai]

Dude, I am not a living wikipedia and ur forcing me to be one. Just give me what was the question. If not, we could be driving this argument everywhere...

I read quotes.

Looks like you're forcing yourself.

[dogmai]

TheAfterLife,

You been proving that im correct the whole time even without answering the question.

[dogmai]

It was a quote.

[dogmai]

You just proved me right again. 

[dogmai]

Not my problem if you can't read.

[3 Years Time]

Stop arguing like kids. "I got the last word, I won the debate!"

Back to the topic. This thread is whack, the original poster obviously has something against shamans.

[Believe_N_Me]

9 pages and we got sh.it from those coj kevcai qub and Hmong atheists but defensive attitudes.

Apparently, it takes me to explain the foundation of Shamanism and Hmong atheists.

Hmong atheists have no foundation. They're basically following American popular culture. Right now it's cool to be anti-Christian even though those against Christianity are rooted in a Christian culture.  Their morals are based on European Christian teaching.

Americanized Shamanists ---> these people really know sh.it about their religious practices because if they did, they would realize it conflicts with their American views. First of all, Shamanism is all about magic and spells. That's why the Hmong call it "Dab qhua". The term refers to the fact that the Shaman is so skilled and clever that he can use his magic and spells to thwart the spirits. Notice how I said "thwart" and not "defeat"? Basically, that's what a Shaman does. He "diverts" the spirits from causing harm to the human being.  This kind of skill and cleverness is so sharp that even the spirits have to revere it, hence "Dab qhua".

[HUNG TU LO]

Hmong atheists have no foundation. They're basically following American popular culture. Right now it's cool to be anti-Christian...

Right now, it's also cool for 2nd and 3rd generation American-born children of immigrants to adopt the mainstream and/or popular religion, especially a European-based religion, and reject and bash their native traditions, religions, and beliefs. All of this is done to express a social image of modernity, "intelligence", new-age, enlightenment, etc.

[dogmai]

All these pages and no explanations, only hating and defending.

[Believe_N_Me]

Right now, it's also cool for 2nd and 3rd generation American-born children of immigrants to adopt the mainstream and/or popular religion, especially a European-based religion, and reject and bash their native traditions, religions, and beliefs. All of this is done to express a social image of modernity, "intelligence", new-age, enlightenment, etc.

I would strike out the "popular" from your sentence. Christianity isn't popular at the moment. If anything there has been a decline in membership so if American-born Hmong kids are Christian then it's their own Hmong brand of Christianity, unless of course they are cradle Catholics or Lutherans. 

[HUNG TU LO]

I would strike out the "popular" from your sentence. Christianity isn't popular at the moment.

If you go by statistics, Christians still outnumber every group in the world. My quote:

...adopt the mainstream and/or popular religion...

Christianity IS the mainstream religion (of USA) and it still is the most popular religion in the world. The fact that Christianity may not be the path that white kids of 5th, 6th, 7th, generation are taking, does not mean that it isn't the popular (aka "cool thing to do") path for 1st and 2nd generation American-born Asian kids.

Don't even patronize me. If you found something in Jesus and Christianity, go quietly. Why do people dwell, bash and criticize their old beliefs and traditions? Why do Hmong Christians persist to equate Hmong ways with the (bible) Devil? Why do you refuse Hmong food at gatherings? How come white Christians whose families have been Christened for five generations will eagerly eat Hmong food at gatherings and they don't drop dead or feel the rapture of God?

I'll tell you why: being a Hmong and being a Christian is just to create a social image. An image of "Hey! Look at me! I'm not a savage. I'm modern, I'm with the new-age, I am like you white people. I'm not like THEM (savage Hmongs) over there."

Yeah, maybe some aren't like that but the majority of them are. Because like I said, if you found something in Christianity to make your life better, you would move on quietly and leave all this behind. But you don't because the hating, the bashing, the criticizing, it is all part of the image that you are creating for yourself. If you aren't, prove it. Go to the next Hmong hu plig or ua neeb gathering and eat the food and see if you feel the rapture (you won't because all religions/beliefs are just bullshit, but that's a story for another day). Because white Christian people have gone to Hmong gatherings, ate the food, and their **** hasn't fallen off. You only do it because you want that image. It's not about your faith in God.

[chidorix0x]

9 pages and we got sh.it from those coj kevcai qub and Hmong atheists but defensive attitudes.

Apparently, it takes me to explain the foundation of Shamanism and Hmong atheists.

Hmong atheists have no foundation. They're basically following American popular culture. Right now it's cool to be anti-Christian even though those against Christianity are rooted in a Christian culture.  Their morals are based on European Christian teaching.

Americanized Shamanists ---> these people really know sh.it about their religious practices because if they did, they would realize it conflicts with their American views. First of all, Shamanism is all about magic and spells. That's why the Hmong call it "Dab qhua". The term refers to the fact that the Shaman is so skilled and clever that he can use his magic and spells to thwart the spirits. Notice how I said "thwart" and not "defeat"? Basically, that's what a Shaman does. He "diverts" the spirits from causing harm to the human being.  This kind of skill and cleverness is so sharp that even the spirits have to revere it, hence "Dab qhua".

LMAO!!!  ROLF!!!  ...     ...   

You must have learned (been spoon-fed) this idiocy (sideline observation) from your "husband", who just goes and help eat, drink, "get out of the house -- from you", and commiserate (male bonding) at Hmong shaman ceremonies huh?  As for the European-based Christian mumbo-jumbo, that is in fact EXCLUSIVELY ROOTED in a "meticulously bastardized revision/reinterpretation" of Middle Eastern teachings (morals), culture, and origin -- namely Judaism, or of the Jewish people  ...   

As for your rant on "Hmong Shamanism", it IS NOT "Dab Qhua", with magic and spells  ...     Hmong Shamanism IS IN FACT specifically called "Yeeb Yaig" (or "Neeb Yeeb Yaig"); NOT "Dab Qhua", for any truly cultured (knowledgeable/well-informed) Hmong -- not you HA'Mung, or wanna-be Hmong (posers), who are nothing more than side-line observers and ranters (hearsay parrots).  Additionally, there is/are no "magic and spells" in "Yeeb Yaig".  And arguably there is NO "thwarting" of any kind either.  Perhaps you need to rant less (rooted in your sideline observation/hearsay nonsense) and actually get more informed/insight of and about Hmong Shamanism (or shamanism in general) versus being Western-rooted (taught) nearsightednes s.  (Go ask any traditional, or present-day mainstream Hmong shaman if they exercise/practice any form of "magic or spells".  In all likelihood, they will just LAFF at your Western-rooted ignorance.  Also, the term "Dab Qhua", is a general, practically ALL-ENCOMPASSING term which means/refers to the cultural beliefs, practices, and taboo inherent and innate to Hmong theology, or religion if that helps.  Examp:  Hmong Funeral Rites and Weddings are, can be, and have been called/referred to as "Dab Qhua" as well.  But more specifically, they are called "Pam Tuag" and "Tshoob Kos" respectively.)

For the ignorant HA'Mung, or posers like Believe_In_Me, the only or possibly closest practitioners of "magic and spells" are Hmong "Kawv Koob".  Even then, some "Kawv Koob" are not "magic and spells", though most arguably ARE, as they are believed to conjure up mysticism, demons (ghosts/spirits), and curses etc..

Before any ignorant (Westernized nearsighted) HA'Mung feels endowed to rant about Hmong-anything, please get some formal (education) facts, versus being a nearsighted/narrow-minded idiotic ranter.

[Believe_N_Me]

LMAO!!!  ROLF!!!  ...     ...   

You must have learned (been spoon-fed) this idiocy (sideline observation) from your "husband", who just goes and help eat, drink, "get out of the house -- from you", and commiserate (male bonding) at Hmong shaman ceremonies huh?  As for the European-based Christian mumbo-jumbo, that is in fact EXCLUSIVELY ROOTED in a "meticulously bastardized revision/reinterpretation" of Middle Eastern teachings (morals), culture, and origin -- namely Judaism, or of the Jewish people  ...   

As for your rant on "Hmong Shamanism", it IS NOT "Dab Qhua", with magic and spells  ...     Hmong Shamanism IS IN FACT specifically called "Yeeb Yaig" (or "Neeb Yeeb Yaig"); NOT "Dab Qhua", for any truly cultured (knowledgeable/well-informed) Hmong -- not you HA'Mung, or wanna-be Hmong (posers), who are nothing more than side-line observers and ranters (hearsay parrots).  Additionally, there is/are no "magic and spells" in "Yeeb Yaig".  And arguably there is NO "thwarting" of any kind either.  Perhaps you need to rant less (rooted in your sideline observation/hearsay nonsense) and actually get more informed/insight of and about Hmong Shamanism (or shamanism in general) versus being Western-rooted (taught) nearsightednes s.  (Go ask any traditional, or present-day mainstream Hmong shaman if they exercise/practice any form of "magic or spells".  In all likelihood, they will just LAFF at your Western-rooted ignorance.  Also, the term "Dab Qhua", is a general, practically ALL-ENCOMPASSING term which means/refers to the cultural beliefs, practices, and taboo inherent and innate to Hmong theology, or religion if that helps.  Examp:  Hmong Funeral Rites and Weddings are, can be, and have been called/referred to as "Dab Qhua" as well.  But more specifically, they are called "Pam Tuag" and "Tshoob Kos" respectively.)

For the ignorant HA'Mung, or posers like Believe_In_Me, the only or possibly closest practitioners of "magic and spells" are Hmong "Kawv Koob".  Even then, some "Kawv Koob" are not "magic and spells", though most arguably ARE, as they are believed to conjure up mysticism, demons (ghosts/spirits), and curses etc..

Before any ignorant (Westernized nearsighted) HA'Mung feels endowed to rant about Hmong-anything, please get some formal (education) facts, versus being a nearsighted/narrow-minded idiotic ranter.

You're an idiot. I'm very aware that Christianity has it's roots in Judaism, however, THAT IS NOT THE BRAND OF CHRISTIANITY that the average American is following. That's why I specifically said "European" as in "Church of England" as in "Vatican in Rome".

As far as Shamanism, the shaman is believed to have spirit assistants who help him "thwart" the spirit world through clever negotiations. Most shamanists are gifted with clairvoyance as well. "Khaws koob" is also part of traditional Hmong spiritual beliefs. All fall under the Shamanism umbrella for those that follow it.

Doesn't matter how you break it down to all the different parts. It still comes down to spells, mysticism, and magic.