Universal Healthcare

[bulbasaur]

I simply didn't want to embarrass you, but since you asked for it...

Did I say I hate you?  Did I take it as a personal attack?  All I was saying that people have misconceptions .  On the other hand, you are the one who is always name-calling.  You somehow think name-calling makes your point stronger.  Or, maybe you think it makes you smarter by calling others stupid. 

I am saying that you have no validity.  You have shown an inability to process information.  I really don't mean that in a bad way; it's simply true.  Even when you are corrected, you ignore it.  For example, it's the 3/5 Compromise, not the 2/3 Compromise.  You refuse to acknowledge that you are wrong on a fact.  Because you refuse to acknowledge a fact and the fact that you were wrong, everything you say has no validity.   In fact, "you're too cowardly to admit it."

Moreover, you don't understand what misconceptions are.  I suggest a dictionary. 

So you're saying that my co-worker's sister has no validity in her complaints about the healthcare system in Italy?

Your personal hatred of me should have no influence on my first response in this thread. My comment wasn't to thwart your little topic. It was simply to express a statement I got from a conversation with my co-worker. The problem with you is that you got issues with me but you're too cowardly to admit it. That's why you think everything I say is a personal attack against your intelligence or something. 

I'll clear things up. I already know you're stupid. I don't need to argue about that. I'm simply just saying this is what I heard from a co-worker. If you have problems then locate her sister in Italy and debate with her about Italy's healthcare system. 

[bulbasaur]

You know, not everything has to be so preachy and philosophical; it comes off as pseudo-preachy and pseudo-philosophical.  You should really try to balance your life between the theory and the practical.  It'll make you say more intelligent, not just pseudo-intelligent.  I know you are going to take this as an insult, but I am actually trying to help you. 

For example...
1.  You mentioned the economics a few times, but you fail to actually explain it.  Your explanation for the economics is about crocodile brain neuroscience.  Really?  People aren't going to take that seriously.  For economics, you should have simply pointed out that implementing universal healthcare in America has a huge challenge because of the heath insurance industry.  The health insurance industry employs thousands and is a billion dollar industry that backs politicians.  Implementing comprehensive universal healthcare means politicians risking their jobs and thousands losing theirs. 

2.  You need to get over your data analysis.  It's usually wrong.  Even when you provide the numbers, the result doesn't support you.  In this case, you are talking about data, but you have no data to analyze.  When you provide numbers, you have to show that your interpretation of the data is correct. 

I know you're going to be all offended and stuff, but oh well.  If you want your point to make sense, you have to make it make sense.  You're throwing out adages and metaphors, and many times, they don't really connect.  Remember "Switch and Bait?"  Anyways, take it or leave it...you're probably going to leave it. 

You cannot fix a system that is economically broken with another system that is even more economically broken.  The rationale here is due to how human being work...neurosc ience shows that human being makes their most important decision based upon the crocodile brain.  Obama administration is using game theory, EI and high dimensional data analysis to manipulate all of simpletons who thinks you are so educated.  When the smart is outsmart, they don't even see it coming...it's so obvious to the outside watching what is going on except the one the trick is being played on.  Jokes on us America and it is no laughing matter.

[bulbasaur]

There you go.  All upset.  Refusing to acknowledge any wrong doing. 

1.  You are the one who does personal attacks, name calls, profanity.  The more you do it, the more it proves my point. 

2.  You often get the facts and terminology wrong.  For example, Switch and Bait.  Should I list more?  In this very thread, it is easy to see the pseudo-information you are providing.  For example, "Obama administration is using game theory, EI and high dimensional data analysis to manipulate all of simpletons who thinks you are so educated."

I'll await for you to rebut with more insults.  Unfortunately, you still haven't learned that insulting others doesn't make you right. 

B, why would I be offended by you?  I mean that's all you do is TROLL.  What I am amuse is how butt-hurt you are.  It's OK B, if it makes you feel better, you won B...yes, you won a debate on PH where I used real math and science and you used jack-shit.  Winner, winner, chicken dinner!  3 cheers for B!  Yey!

Secondly, the economic question...wel l there's this really powerful tool called Google and I mean it's powerful.  This tool indexes everything that is thrown on the Internet that is not private, and when you ask Google a question, it'll provide you with valuable sources.  Try asking Google what is economics...th en try more complex queries like universal healthcare and economics.  I would write you another synopsis in this post but it's somewhere in PH.  If you can't find it on PH, I'm sure you'll find it on Google - Google knows like everything.

Also, if you are going to debate me, try to debate me and not talk about other butt-hurt post.  If you disagree with me, just ask the millions of working Americans if their healthcare benefit went up or down...and we are just phase 1 of obamacare...Ne edless to say the proof is in the pudding.  I think there is an implication here...your ass don't pay real healthcare...w hy else would you not know this already.      Government assistance or government benefits must be nice...  I do envy your zero cost benefits I help contribute to.

[Hung_Low]

There are problems with "Obamacare," but universal healthcare is a good thing. 

I was out with some friends and cousins, and the topic came up.  Surprisingly, they were all against universal healthcare.  Strangely enough, a good number of them worked in the medical field.  At first, I thought maybe they disagreed on it because of principle, smaller government.  However, as the discussion continued, it became apparent that they were simply misinformed.  I originally avoided the debate since I was the only dissenting view.  There was no need to engage in a debate with people I haven't seen in a long time.  Also, I was the more informed and the better debater, so it wouldn't even be fair.  But then, like good medical professionals, they noticed my broken finger...

They noticed my broken finger, but they didn't know that I broke it while I was abroad.  They were all guessing how much it cost me.  $500 to $5000.  It became a game.  When I told them it cost me less than $20,, they were shocked.  They then proceeded to try to find something wrong with the system, such as wait time, appointments, etc.  However, when I told them that I simply walked in, no appointment, 10 minute wait, got treated, got medication, a rehab schedule with a personal trainer, and follow-ups with the doctor, it really blew their minds.  All of their pre-conceptions about universal healthcare was wrong. 

Granted, if I needed surgery, I might have needed to wait and pay more.  I am not sure about the wait, but I am pretty sure the cost would have been cheaper. 

Virtually every country with universal healthcare laughs at the American system.  Although it is true that some of the best hospitals, doctors, medical techniques, etc. are in America, it doesn't mean much when people do not have access to it. 

People should be mindful of facts vs. pre-conceptions. 

Universal healthcare if run correctly is good... Hong Kong and Singapore for example. But the U.S. gov't healthcare will never be good. They can't even run a freakin website... how on earth are they going to run a universal healthcare system and make it good? ACA (aka ObamaCare) is welfare for health... It's never going to bring cost down. Where were you when you broke your finger and got it fix?

[bulbasaur]

I was in China.  Crazy huh?  Who would have guessed.  Afterwards, I checked up on worldwide healthcare plans.  China was in the top 10.  It's crazy, but after what I have seen, it's true.  I had to get stitches in the States about 10 years ago.  I had to wait 8 hours, and it cost $1500.

Universal healthcare in the States is difficult because of the heath insurance industry.  It's a billion dollar business with political ties, and they employ thousands of people.  Even if the government was bold enough to shut down the industry and ruin thousands of jobs, the American public doesn't even have a good understanding of universal healthcare to even want it. 

"Obamacare" won't really help a lot of people.  At best, it might just be the first step to a long slow change...which might be a good thing. 

Universal healthcare if run correctly is good... Hong Kong and Singapore for example. But the U.S. gov't healthcare will never be good. They can't even run a freakin website... how on earth are they going to run a universal healthcare system and make it good? ACA (aka ObamaCare) is welfare for health... It's never going to bring cost down. Where were you when you broke your finger and got it fix?

[bulbasaur]

Do you realize you do this all the time?  You are the one who actually agrees with  me because I said it first.  You need to re-read the original post.   

As always, reading comprehension is important. 

LOL...You trash talking me and you agree with me?  On the internet we call them trolls.

I'm sorta done with you as a troll...if you did not notice. 

[bulbasaur]

I don't know why you're always upset.  My guess is that it is ego.  Ego compels people to always make things personal.  Ego compels people to constantly list their achievements regardless if those achievements are even real.  Ego compels people to always compete, even in non-competitive settings.  For example, look at your very post.  Instead of talking about the healthcare system, you listed your psuedo-achievements...as if that makes you correct.  What you wrote isn't even relevant.  It's so irrevelant that this very response to you isn't about the healthcare system; it's about you.  Ego.   

Like I said, you would take it as an insult. 

You read about healthcare on the news.  I work in the healthcare, biotech and medical device.  You read about healthcare and reform.  I interpret laws and regulation, and write corporate policy to guide multinational companies.  You talk about science.  I construct design of experiments to prove out manufacturing systems, instruments, and etc... to bring out healthcare devices.  You read about it like history...I contribute to history directly.  Why in duck would I be upset?   

[Gutts]

If Obamacare is so great, why does he keep delaying some of his mandates? 

[Believe_N_Me]

You read about healthcare on the news.  I work in the healthcare, biotech and medical device.  You read about healthcare and reform.  I interpret laws and regulation, and write corporate policy to guide multinational companies.  You talk about science.  I construct design of experiments to prove out manufacturing systems, instruments, and etc... to bring out healthcare devices.  You read about it like history...I contribute to history directly.  Why in duck would I be upset?   

This is too funny!  Bulba talks out of his a.ss all the time. Nothing he says has anything to do with real experience about the topic. If he wants to brag that he can read text, research papers and whatnot then I'll give him props for that.

[Believe_N_Me]

Do you realize you do this all the time?  You are the one who actually agrees with  me because I said it first.  You need to re-read the original post.   

As always, reading comprehension is important. 

Oh, we know you're an expert at that. It's the only thing you have going for you but it doesn't fly with those in the actual industry or have the experience. 

[bulbasaur]

I am not the one who couldn't comprehend the difference between the 2/3 Compromise and the 3/5 Compromise.  You are so upset that you can't even admit your mistake.  If your facts are wrong, then what makes you believe that your views, which are based on false premises, are correct?     

Like a certain someone else on these threads...list ing your pseudo-credentials doesn't support your arguments.   

Oh, we know you're an expert at that. It's the only thing you have going for you but it doesn't fly with those in the actual industry or have the experience. 

[Believe_N_Me]

I am not the one who couldn't comprehend the difference between the 2/3 Compromise and the 3/5 Compromise.  You are so upset that you can't even admit your mistake.  If your facts are wrong, then what makes you believe that your views, which are based on false premises, are correct?     

Like a certain someone else on these threads...list ing your pseudo-credentials doesn't support your arguments.   

The only person upset is you because you bring up something that is irrelevant on PH, which nobody cares about.

For someone who is so passionate about certain topics your credentials are pertinent. You only see Healthcare from your over simplistic knowledge whereas someone in the industry is way more credible. Heck, in fact I'm more credible because I'm a parent, have a family, which means I'm probably more at the doctor's office than you. But of course, you are some moron who goes breaking his finger.

The point is that medical care in the US means something different than that in other countries. Obama wants virtually everything under the sun to be covered by health insurance.  Used to be that healthcare was for only major medical need. With new changes it jacks up all the premiums when in reality some of the services are cheaper elsewhere and you don't need health insurance for it.

[bulbasaur]

Tell us what the 2/3 Compromise is.  If you can't get your facts correct, what makes you believe that your views are correct?   

It's so easy to prove you wrong because almost every sentence you write is fallacious.  For example, you wrote, "Bulba talks out of his a.ss all the time. Nothing he says has anything to do with real experience about the topic."  If you had any kind of reading comprehension, you would have noticed that the original post was a real experience on universal healthcare. 

As always, insulting others doesn't make you correct.  Listing pseudo-credentials doesn't make you correct.  And of course, getting your facts wrong really doesn't make you correct. 

I'll await for you to come back with more insults and more pseudo-credentials...as if it means anything.   

The only person upset is you because you bring up something that is irrelevant on PH, which nobody cares about.

For someone who is so passionate about certain topics your credentials are pertinent. You only see Healthcare from your over simplistic knowledge whereas someone in the industry is way more credible. Heck, in fact I'm more credible because I'm a parent, have a family, which means I'm probably more at the doctor's office than you. But of course, you are some moron who goes breaking his finger.

The point is that medical care in the US means something different than that in other countries. Obama wants virtually everything under the sun to be covered by health insurance.  Used to be that healthcare was for only major medical need. With new changes it jacks up all the premiums when in reality some of the services are cheaper elsewhere and you don't need health insurance for it.

[Believe_N_Me]

Tell us what the 2/3 Compromise is.  If you can't get your facts correct, what makes you believe that your views are correct?   

It's so easy to prove you wrong because almost every sentence you write is fallacious.  For example, you wrote, "Bulba talks out of his a.ss all the time. Nothing he says has anything to do with real experience about the topic."  If you had any kind of reading comprehension, you would have noticed that the original post was a real experience on universal healthcare. 

As always, insulting others doesn't make you correct.  Listing pseudo-credentials doesn't make you correct.  And of course, getting your facts wrong really doesn't make you correct. 

I'll await for you to come back with more insults and more pseudo-credentials...as if it means anything.   

An experience on Universal Healthcare without knowing how that same healthcare is actually managed, without understanding the difference in mentality between Americans and other countries. 

 

Go read moon angel's definition of "wisdom" and refer to my response where I bolded what was vital to having "wisdom".

You said "wisdom" is subjective, which is a very typical remark from someone who obviously thinks he has some by his own self-created standards. 

[bulbasaur]

Um, ok. 

Using your logic, wisdom is not subjective.  So, tell us how to mathematically measure wisdom.   

I'll believe you when you can get your facts right.  2/3 Compromise?   

An experience on Universal Healthcare without knowing how that same healthcare is actually managed, without understanding the difference in mentality between Americans and other countries. 

 

Go read moon angel's definition of "wisdom" and refer to my response where I bolded what was vital to having "wisdom".

You said "wisdom" is subjective, which is a very typical remark from someone who obviously thinks he has some by his own self-created standards.