Ask me about Calvinism

[Visualmon]

The french came and colonized indochina
Like laos

Forced the hmong to farm opium
Introduced Christ


Before all that
Hmong folks practice shaman

Spirits, monster, yer shao and all that jazz

Is that all you can find and think of? 
I was expecting more. 

[hmgROCK]

Is that all you can find and think of? 
I was expecting more. 

yeah man
it's a pretty boring beliefs

[theking]

Or you're just tucking and running due to the "don't know anything" (per other neutral PH members) factor..

[Gracified23]

Im asking good questions
Since you study christ elect

How do you know us hmong are elected?
What about the one that still practice shaman??

Re-read my last response then you’ll know.

[Gracified23]

Where is your proof that people end up in hell???
Or heaven

Cmon now
That just crazy talk



Soooooo

Like me ask you this
Where do the hmong people go when they die
Before the white man religion

Heaven and hell are reserved for people after the final judgment. I do not know where the dead of other cultures go before Jesus. The Bible isn’t clear on this. But I think there are a number of ways they are saved and could be possible. God could send them visions or dreams and they could get saved that way. Just like Islamic people who couldn’t hear the gospel but God sends them dreams and visions. I don’t know if that’s how God did it, but it’s a possibility.

In the Old Testament times people were saved by putting their faith in the coming of Jesus and they were justified by having faith even though the atonement hasn’t take place yet. The atonement is a real atonement and that didn’t happen when Jesus died on the cross, it was historical event that took place in the New Testament. When Christ died He pay all of their sins. If it is not a real atonement then He really didn't die for anyone. So, when Jesus died on the cross, He paid the sins and redeem future people who is not yet born. The OT people were saved by looking forward. We are saved by looking backward.

[Gracified23]

I say both Calvinism and Arminianism aren't so different from Jehovoah Witnesses.

• using theology to determine where will we go to after we die
• using the bible to teach instead of words of mouth from actual holy spirit

That’s an aweful comparison. The difference between both theology is that in the Calvinism view, the atonement is limited to just the elect. Arminism believe the atonement is extended to all people including Satan. I tell you why this is false, because if all people are included even Satan. But we know Satan will never repent right? Therefore the atonement does not include Satan. Because if it was, then he has to repent. Same for the lost. The “lost” will eventually come to repentance and believe in God’s timing. But the lost will never repent and believe. The atonement is real. Jesus cannot die for the unsaved and the unsaved never believe. Why would Christ atoned for sinners who He knew would never come to believe?

Now you see why Calvinism makes more sense.

[hmgROCK]

Heaven and hell are reserved for people after the final judgment. I do not know where the dead of other cultures go before Jesus. The Bible isn’t clear on this. But I think there are a number of ways they are saved and could be possible. God could send them visions or dreams and they could get saved that way. Just like Islamic people who couldn’t hear the gospel but God sends them dreams and visions. I don’t know if that’s how God did it, but it’s a possibility.

In the Old Testament times people were saved by putting their faith in the coming of Jesus and they were justified by having faith even though the atonement hasn’t take place yet. The atonement is a real atonement and that didn’t happen when Jesus died on the cross, it was historical event that took place in the New Testament. When Christ died He pay all of their sins. If it is not a real atonement then He really didn't die for anyone. So, when Jesus died on the cross, He paid the sins and redeem future people who is not yet born. The OT people were saved by looking forward. We are saved by looking backward.

Oh geez, brother
A lot of us hmong are still shaman
They brain wash yall good man

If calvin can reform and rewrite the bible

Pretty sure its not original no more

This is from a REASONABLE PERSON THINKING

[hmgROCK]

Re-read my last response then you’ll know.

Calvin pretty much rewrote the bible to his liking

Kinda like them mormon

Cmon now

Who knows how many times its been changed

[Gracified23]

In my opening I mentioned John 8.

31 “Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.

36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”

The historical context in these passages is during Jesus time a slave holds no will to let go free unless his owner allow him to go free. Under Roman era a slave is a slave for life. Jesus was comparing a slave to sin. Sin is our master and we are his slaves.

Ask yourself this. Do you think being a slave have free-will to free themselves if they wanted to? I’d say definitely not.

The analogy here is comparing a slave to sin. Since a slave cannot free himself from his slavery, it is the same for us - we can’t free ourselves from sins and need Jesus. Jesus was telling the Jews that their will is enslaved by sin. The Son has to set them free. Notice verse 36.

So now that being said, do you still think you have the free-will? If you say yes, then why do Jesus said He’s the One needed to set us free? In the Arminian view they don’t give God the credit. They think they can come to come on their own because of free-will. That’s not what Jesus say.

[Gracified23]

Oh geez, brother
A lot of us hmong are still shaman
They brain wash yall good man

If calvin can reform and rewrite the bible

Pretty sure its not original no more

This is from a REASONABLE PERSON THINKING

Calvin was a Christian theologian during the reformation period of the church. His writings deals with God’s election and predestination which goes back all the way since Augustine in the 300’s. If you want to know the belief of the Christian faith you have to go back to those guys. Those guys didn’t rewrite the Bible or anything. They read the Bible and put together a systematic theology. We still have some of their writings to this day.

Hmong shaman is not even the true form. The real shaman goes back to the native Americans. Or as far back as the Stone Age.

[Gracified23]

Shamanism is pretty much like new age movement and mystics. Can Shamanism logically account for the world we live in? How does it account for the creation of the world? Objective moral values like right and wrong, good and evil? Internal critique and showing that only the Christian worldview can account for all these things. That’s what Augustine did. He took Christian belief to a Greek thinking culture in his days and showed that only God can account for all of that. To study church history and not knowing who Augustine is, is like studying the New York Yankees and not knowing who Babe Ruth is. Augustine was a church father he’s consider one of the greatest Christian theologian who ever lived. Many of them came from a pagan background and were monks. It’s fascinating. During the Protestant Reformation period Calvin picked up his work and was influenced by it. 

Ever heard the idea of original sin? That idea came from Augustine. He believe that man is dead and cannot have faith because he is fallen. Man will never choose God because he still in rebellion. The only way that he could to God is that it God grant him grace. This is where the idea of doctrine of grace comes from. Not everybody will believe in the Gospel, but only those that God predestined.

[DuMa]

In reformed theology, it is God who work through the sinner and regenerate him unto faith. The reason for this is that unregenerate people cannot have faith. Think about your own life before you came to believe in Christ. The Bible says you were dead in your sins and God made you alive. In the Arminian theology it teaches that your free-will leads you to Christ, which is false. I know I used say that. But if you think about it biblically before the person come to Christ he is still lost. He may have free choice, but he never chooses God because in his old nature he is still hostile and in rebellion towards God. That choice can only be given to them after they are regenerate.

Read the story in John 8 concerning Jesus when He speaks of the Truth that shall set you free. Jesus said if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. Then you’ll know.

If god already predetermine who is going to come to him then why even evangelize?   Why even pray for the world or to your family or to your friends?  Your prayers don't work if things are predetermined. 

If god already predetermine then all them sinful acts to men and evils and natural disaster to wipe out men are all on him.  He wanted all of these people dead and this is the kind of god you want to worship? 

If god already predetermine then men can not repent because he has no free will.   The fool already said it in his heart that there is no god but yet, there are still fools out there like Paul who was a prosecutor of them Christians were able to repent and turned back to god. 

If god already predetermine then there is no such a thing as randomness

if god already predetermine for you to go to hell then is it your fault that you go to hell? 

if god already predetermine then why did jesus say he died for the whole world?  1 John 2:2—“And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.”


If god already predetermine to save some and damn some then what is wrong with this bible verse here that says that there are those who damn but can turn to god and be save?   James 5:19-20—“Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”

I wish I have the time to talk about theology with you but I don't have the time to do so.  Plus, if you think that god predetermine you to go to heaven and I go to hell then there is little to discuss about since well, you going to heaven and I go to hell.  The difference here is that if you are wrong, you will have blasphemer against the holy spirit and you are fawk.    With that, I say good luck.  I also want to make a note that calvanism or Mormonism or protestant all came after the mothership.  Men changing the meanings of the bible again. 

With that in mind, I bring you this bible verse that shows that your god does not pick who he wants to save and who he wants to be damn cuz to god, he doesn't take a part of the pie, he takes the whole pie.  Romans 2:11—“For there is no partiality with God.”

 

[DuMa]

That’s an aweful comparison. The difference between both theology is that in the Calvinism view, the atonement is limited to just the elect. Arminism believe the atonement is extended to all people including Satan. I tell you why this is false, because if all people are included even Satan. But we know Satan will never repent right? Therefore the atonement does not include Satan. Because if it was, then he has to repent. Same for the lost. The “lost” will eventually come to repentance and believe in God’s timing. But the lost will never repent and believe. The atonement is real. Jesus cannot die for the unsaved and the unsaved never believe. Why would Christ atoned for sinners who He knew would never come to believe?

Now you see why Calvinism makes more sense.

if your god is all powerful and all knowing and all willingly, why not banish satan? 

he still gave him a chance.  What happened when jesus went praying up that mountain and fasting and satan was there to temp him in matt 4:8-11  Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
9
    "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10
    Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' [4] "
11
    Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

He still gave him a chance to repent.  A god that I know is all loving and giving everyone a chance to seek him out and repent.

[DuMa]

In my opening I mentioned John 8.

31 “Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.

36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”

The historical context in these passages is during Jesus time a slave holds no will to let go free unless his owner allow him to go free. Under Roman era a slave is a slave for life. Jesus was comparing a slave to sin. Sin is our master and we are his slaves.

Ask yourself this. Do you think being a slave have free-will to free themselves if they wanted to? I’d say definitely not.

The analogy here is comparing a slave to sin. Since a slave cannot free himself from his slavery, it is the same for us - we can’t free ourselves from sins and need Jesus. Jesus was telling the Jews that their will is enslaved by sin. The Son has to set them free. Notice verse 36.

So now that being said, do you still think you have the free-will? If you say yes, then why do Jesus said He’s the One needed to set us free? In the Arminian view they don’t give God the credit. They think they can come to come on their own because of free-will. That’s not what Jesus say.

well are black people slaves?  What happen here to this black guy who repented?   This is fresh news.  Isn't he predetermine to be damn?   

This archbishop has become the first African American cardinal in Catholic history
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/27/world/archbishop-wilton-gregory-cardinal/index.html

[DuMa]

Calvin was a Christian theologian during the reformation period of the church. His writings deals with God’s election and predestination which goes back all the way since Augustine in the 300’s. If you want to know the belief of the Christian faith you have to go back to those guys. Those guys didn’t rewrite the Bible or anything. They read the Bible and put together a systematic theology. We still have some of their writings to this day.

Hmong shaman is not even the true form. The real shaman goes back to the native Americans. Or as far back as the Stone Age.

He also called himself a "miserable sinner"  and this is due part of him having to do with the execution of Michael Servetus

"God is the Father of mercy, he will show himself such a Father to me, who acknowledge myself to be a miserable sinner.
- John Calvin April 25, 1564 (One month before his death.)"
http://www.redeemerbc.org/blog/2009/07/30/i-trust-no-other-security-for-my-salvation