Exposing Hmong 18 Counsel Clan

[Succubus]

Who?

*hint*
She lives in Sheboygan
 

[Believe_N_Me]

*hint*
She lives in Sheboygan
 

I remember when there was talk about voting her in.

[Succubus]

Which clan will the woman represent? Her husband's? Certainly not. What happens if she divorces? Her father's clan? Certainly not, if she is married into another clan.

You guys and gals blow this 18 Xeem out of proportion. That's the real problem right there. By accusing them to have political agenda, many of you do the same thing by trying to put your own cause into it (like pulling the gender disparity card). 18 Xeem is nothing more than a collection of representative s from the recognized clans. They establish standards across the board so that in the event cases escalate to the American court system, the non-Hmong legal system has something to go by in their rulings. Since it's expected that each Hmong person is going to have their own version (normally the one that plays to his/her advantage), the American courts need somewhat of a guidebook for lack of a better term.

You are only as strong as your weakest link.

18 Xeem is only as smart as its dumbest rule...and there are plenty.  I applaud them for their ideology.  Their execution and application are a complete failure.  If I was a better human being, I would advised them of their near-sidedness.  I would also volunteer to help polish some of their rough policies.  Unfortunate, I am a horrible person whose only happiness comes from ridiculing idiotic organizations.  Pray for me; maybe one day I will be the change that you've hoped for me.

[Believe_N_Me]

See, this is what you forget.  You're thinking too selfishly here.  Think about the people that are not as educated as you are.  The people that don't know how to exercise their civil rights or know american laws/regulations.  They will turn to 18 counsel and be exploited under it's ignorance. 

Any educated person will never use Hmong 18 counsel as a solution.  Only people with lower education.  This is not to put those people down.  It is our duty to make it an awareness and that 18 counsel should not exploit these people.  They should assist them as intended.

If not for 18 Xeem to help these less than average intelligent Hmong folks then who else? The educated ones? Where are they to be found? Go ahead and make people aware but where is your alternative?

I don't say that as to support 18 Xeem. I say it because you have provided nothing else so you aren't a solution either for people that do have problems.

You see, there are so many educated individuals giving their opinions but at the same time none of them have better solutions. Not only that but they don't even plan to observe their culture so what value is their opinion anyway, know what I mean? It's like complaining about America but you don't even make an effort to show up at town hall meetings and you don't vote.

[Believe_N_Me]

You are only as strong as your weakest link.

18 Xeem is only as smart as its dumbest rule...and there are plenty.  I applaud them for their ideology.  Their execution and application are a complete failure.  If I was a better human being, I would advised them of their near-sidedness.  I would also volunteer to help polish some of their rough policies.  Unfortunate, I am a horrible person whose only happiness comes from ridiculing idiotic organizations.  Pray for me; maybe one day I will be the change that you've hoped for me.

Have you ever worked with Hmong people though? You can't apply something that isn't the mentality of the people you serve. This is the biggest reason why organizations are ineffective in our communities. Our people do not understand organizations. We have never functioned that way.

[Succubus]

If not for 18 Xeem to help these less than average intelligent Hmong folks then who else? The educated ones? Where are they to be found? Go ahead and make people aware but where is your alternative?

I don't say that as to support 18 Xeem. I say it because you have provided nothing else so you aren't a solution either for people that do have problems.

You see, there are so many educated individuals giving their opinions but at the same time none of them have better solutions. Not only that but they don't even plan to observe their culture so what value is their opinion anyway, know what I mean? It's like complaining about America but you don't even make an effort to show up at town hall meetings and you don't vote.

I think that this is the second time that I agreed with you (or is this the first)?  Whose counting right? 

Many people are aware of the mistakes of 18 Xeem.  Self-proclaimed educated people do nothing but criticize.  I did witness one confrontation.  My brother came home last year for a social gathering.  He did expressed and pointed out some of the things that could be improved.  One of the clan leaders sided with my brother.  The other one rudely pointed out the lack of support from college educated people like my brother.  He said successful Hmong people must not forget where they come from.  They should at least contribute back to the community that raised them.  My brother countered by saying that before he gives money away to charity, he must be in alignment with the vision of that organization.  My brother's refusal to support financially is because he does not agree with many of the laws they created.  He does not want to be linked back to 18 Xeem...at least not in its current form.  He did offered suggestions but said that his career is very busy that he cannot do more.  Hopefully the elders can voice his concerns when they have another meeting.

[Succubus]

Have you ever worked with Hmong people though? You can't apply something that isn't the mentality of the people you serve. This is the biggest reason why organizations are ineffective in our communities. Our people do not understand organizations. We have never functioned that way.

There are many problems with 18 Xeem.  The root of the problem is imbedded in the minds of the elders.  Huh, how so?  The elders hold grudges for generations.  Instead of resolving a solution, they wait until the other clan is at their mercy; then they unleash a history of allegations.  In order for forgiveness, that other clan must make amend for what they have done wrong today plus that list of allegations.

Not to lose face, that clan pay their dues today and some of the alleged issues.  Now that clan is lurking for a future moment when my clan is at fault.  Then this cycle repeats.

Forgiveness is the main problem with Hmong people.  18 Xeem is attempting to address some of those issues; but guess who are in charge: the elders.  This is just one of the many short-comings of 18 Xeem.  The road to hell is always paved with good intentions~Succubus.  The idea is good.  The path where 18 Xeem is going is one that only a few will follow.

[Vandal Savage]

There are many problems with 18 Xeem.  The root of the problem is imbedded in the minds of the elders.  Huh, how so?  The elders hold grudges for generations.  Instead of resolving a solution, they wait until the other clan is at their mercy; then they unleash a history of allegations.  In order for forgiveness, that other clan must make amend for what they have done wrong today plus that list of allegations.

Not to lose face, that clan pay their dues today and some of the alleged issues.  Now that clan is lurking for a future moment when my clan is at fault.  Then this cycle repeats.

Forgiveness is the main problem with Hmong people.  18 Xeem is attempting to address some of those issues; but guess who are in charge: the elders.  This is just one of the many short-comings of 18 Xeem.  The road to hell is always paved with good intentions~Succubus.  The idea is good.  The path where 18 Xeem is going is one that only a few will follow.

And that is why same clan members cannot marry, otherwise each clan will not want to work/be at peace with others.  You see, marriage soothes out egos and forms alliances.  Without the marriage of different clans, no one would be in check.  Think Hmong society is corrupt now?  Think about how it would be if all clan leaders told their sons and daughters to marry each other.  Now isn't that disgusting? 

[Hmong-Everything]

And that is why same clan members cannot marry, otherwise each clan will not want to work/be at peace with others.  You see, marriage soothes out egos and forms alliances.  Without the marriage of different clans, no one would be in check.  Think Hmong society is corrupt now?  Think about how it would be if all clan leaders told their sons and daughters to marry each other.  Now isn't that disgusting?

Why even listen to these old leader when you're making history and re-writting a better future for your generation. 

The problem is; young people are still taking these old people seriously- that's what gives them power.  With power these old men will always be in control.  But they are dying off- and its up to this generation to realise their undoing.

[WindComeWindBlow]

I do feel for those who are uneducated and/or not well informed with American regulations and laws.  They are usually the ones who still follow traditions. 

I had a reliable source call Hmong Lao family not too long ago for some advice and they told him he has to pay a one time membership fee of $100.00. 

In WI, the 18 Counsel Clan passed a rule that at any domestic incident, the wife/victim must call the 18 Councel Clan prior to calling the police.  Yikes! 

[theking]

I do feel for those who are uneducated and/or not well informed with American regulations and laws.  They are usually the ones who still follow traditions. 

I had a reliable source call Hmong Lao family not too long ago for some advice and they told him he has to pay a one time membership fee of $100.00. 

In WI, the 18 Counsel Clan passed a rule that at any domestic incident, the wife/victim must call the 18 Councel Clan prior to calling the police.  Yikes! 

Yep, definitely "Yikes!" I hope the victims in that area have more common sense than that...

[Believe_N_Me]

There are many problems with 18 Xeem.  The root of the problem is imbedded in the minds of the elders.  Huh, how so?  The elders hold grudges for generations.  Instead of resolving a solution, they wait until the other clan is at their mercy; then they unleash a history of allegations.  In order for forgiveness, that other clan must make amend for what they have done wrong today plus that list of allegations.

Not to lose face, that clan pay their dues today and some of the alleged issues.  Now that clan is lurking for a future moment when my clan is at fault.  Then this cycle repeats.

Forgiveness is the main problem with Hmong people.  18 Xeem is attempting to address some of those issues; but guess who are in charge: the elders.  This is just one of the many short-comings of 18 Xeem.  The road to hell is always paved with good intentions~Succubus.  The idea is good.  The path where 18 Xeem is going is one that only a few will follow.

The elders do not understand organizations. It's never been the way they operated. They only understand following a respected leader that rose to that position because of embodying trustworthy traits. Reminds me of this foreign-titled movie in the middle east where the government tries to run a democratic election. The only problem is that a good majority of people are going to vote for the guy that is the most threat, since he'll harm them if they don't vote for him. So is it really a fair election? This is how I see the Hmong people and Hmong organizations. It may be with good intentions but the people aren't ready for it and might not ever be.

[nraughmoobmuas]

Hey I live in Minnesota and I have not been affected by their decisions.

[Hmong-Everything]

Hey I live in Minnesota and I have not been affected by their decisions.

It's not where you live.  It's the kind of people that will be affected.  Uneducated people who don't know American laws.  They will turn to 18 counsel for advice/counseling- this is the root of corruptions.  Denying hmong community to seek real help- instead they filter and exploit the hmong ignorance.

[Dom]

What a bunch of ticks and lice.