Stand Your Ground: Chai Vang Case Revisited

[bulbasaur]

If Stand Your Ground existed and was presented, would Chai Vang have had a more persuasive argument? 

[dogmai]

No, because he went after those people.

[bulbasaur]

Vang could argue how large the area of the "ground" he was standing on.  After all, there were more of them than there were of him.  He could have also argued immediate danger, and that he was under no duty or obligation to retreat.  Vang could argue that if he let them all go, they would have re-grouped and tracked him down half a mile later, circled him, and killed him.  Even now, we don't know who shot first. 

That being said, Vang's testimony was awful.  He wasn't prepped.  He virtually incriminated himself.  Vang needed a better lawyer.  He might have still lost, but the lawyer didn't help. 

No, because he went after those people.

[LadyLionness]

The most incriminating thing is what you said in that last paragraph.  Two years in prison and he came out with no remorse.  He went on the stand and said that they deserved to die. 


As for stand your ground, I am not sure.  I agree with you that it is most likely self defense.  If I recall correctly, the news article said that the Meka people shot first... two shots hit the trees near his head.  That's when he dropped down and took them out one by one. 

[bulbasaur]

The reason why I said we don't know who shot first is because (if i recall) the white hunters claimed Vang shot first, but Vang claimed they shot first.  It's He Said She Said.  Vang's lawyer should have pressed the issue that Vang had less motivation and reason to shoot first.  I am not even sure if Vang's lawyer even bothered to point this out. 

The most incriminating thing is what you said in that last paragraph.  Two years in prison and he came out with no remorse.  He went on the stand and said that they deserved to die. 


As for stand your ground, I am not sure.  I agree with you that it is most likely self defense.  If I recall correctly, the news article said that the Meka people shot first... two shots hit the trees near his head.  That's when he dropped down and took them out one by one. 

[LadyLionness]

I don't recall the details... but I do remember that testimony between the whites and forensic indicates that the meka shot first.




He was on one of my FB groups that I manage.  He used to come on and participated in some of the discussions... I am not sure if he still does.  I haven't seen him for a while.  He seems to be very sad.  I didn't let on that I knew who he was.

[bulbasaur]

I have to doubt any forensics can definitively prove who shot first.  At best, it can only tell if a shot was taken. 

That being said, the white hunters were clearly dishonest and hiding something.  The missing gun shells.  The lack of guns.   Their contradicting testimony.  Even the unrealistic account of events.  It may be He Said She Said, but it is highly unlikely that they were polite.  I am not sure if Vang's lawyer pointed that out. 

I don't recall the details... but I do remember that testimony between the whites and forensic indicates that the meka shot first.




He was on one of my FB groups that I manage.  He used to come on and participated in some of the discussions... I am not sure if he still does.  I haven't seen him for a while.  He seems to be very sad.  I didn't let on that I knew who he was.

[duckwingduck]

He did not have a good lawyer.

He should not have volunteered to speak with the media without his lawyer.  He made big mistakes when he spoke to the media. 

[duckwingduck]

Maybe because his lawyer did not advise him.

His words in the media would come to haunt him in the court room..

[VillainousHero]

Chai Vang acted like a trapped animal who fought to the brink of his life with nothing else to lose because he already knew his life was at stake.

Two things about patterns that I recall was hearsay through others:

Chai Vang was known to trespassed onto private land.

The white folks were known to be extremely prejudice towards minorities.



If I recalled, maybe just wishing or dreamed it.  One of the injured white person admitted that they intentionally fired warning shot at Chai Vang, while Chai had his back turned to them as they intentionally followed Chai Vang and accused him on intentionally trespassing.  It was only then that Chai Vang, reacted and backed tracked to ambush them.  They were caught off guard and never expected Chai Vang to actually shoot to kill.


If the American justice system was really about justice...Both sides should've been criminally charged for both of their crimes.  Chai Vang for the actual kills since he could've just wounded them and escape...Them white people for their racial negligence of intent to kill and compromising their own safety for such acts.

From one military person to another...I would take the defense of military training, ensure survival to the end.  Depending on that specific training, but some of the priorities are:
* Ensure you pose a bigger threat to your opposition.  I don't know what kind of weapon he was carrying, but I'd bet if he was carrying an assault type of weapon, the opposition probably wouldn't mess around with him.
* Ensure you have back up.  You don't always have to, but imposing that you have a buddy of equal training and demeanor to back you up, will often force the opposition to stand down.  Chai Vang could've just said something like, "I have two friends in my hunting party back there.  All I have to do is fire three shots and they will come to help."

So much things about the military is presence, and imposing the bluff of solidarity at the front line.  However it's not all bluff, because if you get called on it, you still have to prove your strength in reactionary force, in case you get probed.

If anything else, they should change hunting laws just to allow people to carry shortwave radios...for emergency scenarios just like this.

[minorcharacter]

Come on dude, don't you know that stand your ground only applies to white people?

[VillainousHero]

Come on dude, don't you know that stand your ground only applies to white people?

Exactly...just like how the media portrayal of these poor innocent KKKKK supremacist people are in the right. 

[YAX]

When it comes down to it, the whole "Jury of your peers" concept fails when the jury is not of your peers and will never understand your viewpoint and will condemn you no matter what you say.

Compare this case to OJ's xase where majority of the Jurers werw black. Notice the difference in results?

[Sydney]

How come Chai Vang did not have any hunting buddies to testify for him?  Any why was he set up as the lone wolf against tons of whites in this situation?  Were his buddies hiding or just not up to defending him?  I'm just very curious.  Ty.

[VillainousHero]

How come Chai Vang did not have any hunting buddies to testify for him?  Any why was he set up as the lone wolf against tons of whites in this situation?  Were his buddies hiding or just not up to defending him?  I'm just very curious.  Ty.

To my understanding from the media...Chai Vang was hunting alone, separate from his other hunting buddies.  He ended up in private property bordering the public hunting grounds when the white folks confronted him and escalated the situation into a deadly confrontation.